A few questions

[AmbientEcho]

Hello everyone, I just finished playing and beat HL2 last night for the first time. Great game.

But I have a few questions, first do headcrabs view the combine humans such as the civil protection as enemies or do they just attack the humans in the resistance force? I never noticed a headcrab leaping at CP's but I may have just missed it. It seems to me that headcrabs are unintelligent and will attach to the first thing they can jump at.

second, Why did Ravenholm in particular get shelled with headcrab pods and not any other part of the city 17? Did they just randomly pick a town to infest or what?

And also at the end where was Dr. Breen going to teleport to, and why? He was talking to some giant thing on a screen and then he ran away before I could understand what he was saying.

 

[$kelet0r]

1. Headcrabs are not sentient - everything is a potential host, prey or predator to them. Personally I view them as intergalactic rats and not native to Xen. (speculation)
2. Ravenholm is not part of City 17 and was shelled because it was free/a resistance locus
3. Breen wanted to teleport to a Combine controlled world to escape from Gordon and the Resistance. He is obviously terrified of Freeman. The giant thing he was talking to was a Combine - an advisor to Breen

And apparently you haven't finished Halflife 2 at all - there is nearly 20 hours of game that was not included in the game that they will charge for which I am particularly bitter about as a huge HL2 fan. No doubt some asshole fanboy (i'm looking at you Samon) will come along and go 'lol john you lose111' but it's something that has me thinking twice about ever buying another Valve product again
Episode 1 is out today for preloading if you want more - it's meant to be very intense

 

[Sparda]

The Head crabs do attack the combine, the head crabs are used by the combine to take over the humans because they are easier to kill.

Ravenholm was a target for the combine and lunched head crab pods there, the combine had no interest in Ravenholm so they put head crabs there.

The big thing Breen talks to is the Combine adviser (A combine leader) Breen is a pussy and was trying to get away to another dimension.


But i may be wrong. Samon will tell us whats what!!

 

[Asknoone]

No doubt some asshole fanboy (i'm looking at you Samon) will come along and go 'lol john you lose111'

And you were right. Haha. Because you know, you are wrong.
It's not cut stuff from HL2. Where do you get this idea?!

Asshole fanboy? Fair enough. Consider yourself warned for abusive behavior.

 

[^Ben]

:roll: John, I'm so glad you played through those 20 hours and was able to tell it was going to be amazing and Valve cut it ... Again major :roll:

What's next? You gonna tell us how episodic content wrecks the narrative? Puhlease! You would not know a narrative structure if it came up and smacked you in the face.

And Samon, I doubt if this guy has actually played the beta, the beta is basically an unfinished version of HL2 nothing was removed from the version that got leaked, there was another mappack leak but those where from an earlier iteration of the game which had nothing todo with this version of HL2, but john knows best so they magically get put together to come up with some random number of hours that apparently the eviiiiiiil Valve cut from HL2.

 

[Hectic Glenn]

You get alot of shit Samon from people for no reason, i don't understand, when you are not VALVe, you just support them, it doesn't make you the 'wrong do-er', don't know why you put up with it.

Ravenholm was a target for the combine and lunched head crab pods there, the combine had no interest in Ravenholm so they put head crabs there

Why do so few people understand the little story there is. Ravenholm wasn't targetted because they had no interest in it, it was targetted as it was a large rebel area, populated by the rebels and Father Grigori. It was such a strong force to contend with the combine fired headcrab pods into the town so the headcrabs 'zombified' the resistance living there, creating no threat. When visiting you find Grigori and no one else...it was successful. Theres your little story-time lesson.

 

[$kelet0r]

:roll: John, I'm so glad you played through those 20 hours and was able to tell it was going to be amazing and Valve cut it ... Again major :roll:

What's next? You gonna tell us how episodic content wrecks the narrative? Puhlease! You would not know a narrative structure if it came up and smacked you in the face.

And Samon, I doubt if this guy has actually played the beta, the beta is basically an unfinished version of HL2 nothing was removed from the version that got leaked, there was another mappack leak but those where from an earlier iteration of the game which had nothing todo with this version of HL2, but john knows best so they magically get put together to come up with some random number of hours that apparently the eviiiiiiil Valve cut from HL2.

wow my sarcasm metre is off the charts :rolling:
I have no doubt that the Episodes will be excellent and I hope everyone who buys them will enjoy them. I will, however, not be bullied by anyone (Samon again especially - he really is on a roll these days particularly when he is disagreed with) into buying the damn thing or even accepting the warped logic that you can treat a narrative so casually and so flippantly

You gonna tell us how episodic content wrecks the narrative?

Seeing as you brought it up, I may as well fight my corner especially as it is worth defending
If you don't think it does, you have no basic knowledge of literature or story telling
This WILL hurt the narrative, it will fracture it and remove the basic tenet of storytelling - coherence
And Ben FYI the beta finished where HL2 finished - there were no added levels after it

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I have an advanced knowledge of literature and story-telling, and I don't believe that episodic content hurts the narrative in the slightest. Are you going to tell me that I'm wrong?

 

[$kelet0r]

Yes

 

[kupocake]

It seems to me that headcrabs are unintelligent and will attach to the first thing they can jump at.

That's the one. Headcrabs are gaming's High-School Cheerleaders. Word is that you'll see Zombified Combine (aka "Zombine") lazily throwing grenades at you in HL2: Episode One. The thing is that you just don't see combine falling afoul of headcrabs in HL2 because the combine are the ones who hoarde (perhaps even breed) and unleash them, usually tactically into rebel-dense areas. In the game, you never see them fight I think simply because you never see the two enemies in the same room (a rebel, like yourself or your resistance friends will walk through headcrab infested zones because you want to slip through the net. A combine is part of the ruling class and has the luxury of transport through primarily safe zones). With their comfort zone collapsing in HL2:EP1, Valve feel it appropriate to show Zombified combine.

Plus, helmets are the equivilent of contraception in Half-Life. Presumably Zombine are therefore the equivilent of what happens after malicious condom sabotage.

 

[^Ben]

wow my sarcasm metre is off the charts :rolling:
I have no doubt that the Episodes will be excellent and I hope everyone who buys them will enjoy them. I will, however, not be bullied by anyone (Samon again especially - he really is on a roll these days particularly when he is disagreed with) into buying the damn thing or even accepting the warped logic that you can treat a narrative so casually and so flippantly


Seeing as you brought it up, I may as well fight my corner especially as it is worth defending
If you don't think it does, you have no basic knowledge of literature or story telling
This WILL hurt the narrative, it will fracture it and remove the basic tenet of storytelling - coherence
And Ben FYI the beta finished where HL2 finished - there were no added levels after it

"And Ben FYI the beta finished where HL2 finished - there were no added levels after it"

Thanks for repeating what I said, so where does this magical 20 hours come from?

And what are your credentials for narrative analysis? Got any books that you have written that I can check out? I know I can get Marc Laidlaw books so he must know a little about story telling.

 

[$kelet0r]

Thanks for repeating what I said, so where does this magical 20 hours come from?

3*6 =18
4*5 =20

And what are your credentials for narrative analysis?

I have read more than one book, seen more than one film, played more than one game, listened to more than one song - I am more than qualified to critique most media
My writing history, while impressive, is irrelevant here - besides I have never posted any of my work on forums and I'm not going to start, respect my anonymity

 

[Asknoone]

You get alot of shit Samon from people for no reason, i don't understand, when you are not VALVe, you just support them, it doesn't make you the 'wrong do-er', don't know why you put up with it.

At the end of the day I play an excellent game made by, in my mind, an excellent company. I love Half-life. I support the majority of Valves's decisions and if people want to come along and say shit well...more power to them. At the end of the day, I'm not the one who loses
If someone wants to miss out that's fair enough. But I, and anothers have every write to tell them when I feel they are wrong. Like now.

And also. I'm a forum member. A mere presence on the internet. If you feel bullied by some of the things I say then....haha. I'll be careful not to launch myself through my monitor and thump you one next time eh John?

Samon: forum asshole, and couldn't give a shit.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Yes

Oddly enough, I'll take my own personal experience over your witless blathering any day.

You see, quite apart from the fact that it's a game and not a work of literature, far more analagous to a TV series than a book, what you have to ask yourself is "Does it hurt the narrative for me? Does it break the coherency for me?". I can answer a resounding "no" to both of those. Yet you have the temerity to tell me that I'm wrong. Stop trying to present your opinions as facts - they are far from factual.

 

[^Ben]

3*6 =18
4*5 =20

I have read more than one book, seen more than one film, played more than one game, listened to more than one song - I am more than qualified to critique most media
My writing history, while impressive, is irrelevant here - besides I have never posted any of my work on forums and I'm not going to start, respect my anonymity

Oh wow, you have read alot of books?

I've watched alot of movies That must mean I'm the next Spielberg :afro: Sorry, it does not work out like that :rolling: You actually need to have studied narrative in detail(not just read the harry potter series) to have a valid opinion on this subject.

 

[$kelet0r]

Oddly enough, I'll take my own personal experience over your witless blathering any day.

You see, quite apart from the fact that it's a game and not a work of literature, far more analagous to a TV series than a book, what you have to ask yourself is "Does it hurt the narrative for me? Does it break the coherency for me?". I can answer a resounding "no" to both of those. Yet you have the temerity to tell me that I'm wrong. Stop trying to present your opinions as facts - they are far from factual.

I never sought to impose my opinions on anyone - and that's all they are - my opinions
Your question Does it hurt the narrative for me? Does it break the coherency for me? is a resounding yes for me and I know why. Because I treat games as more than mere entertainment - maybe you don't and frnakly I don't care. To call my arguments 'witless blathering' is hilarious - only a few posts up you were 'claiming' to have a superior understanding of narrative
Arrogance is the final comfort of fools methinks
If you can't fail to see that breaking up a story breaks the coherence in a single narrative then well apart from lacking any literary background you havent a leg to stand on
Pi I can say you are wrong all day long - and I will, still in my opinion - which is more valid than yours anyday, be correct
Enjoy the game - I would never deny you that pleasure but don't you dare loft your ridiculously vain self importance on me

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

If you can't fail to see that breaking up a story breaks the coherence in a single narrative then well apart from lacking any literary background you havent a leg to stand on

Again, expressing opinion as fact.

ridiculously vain self importance

Do you even read what you're writing? You told me that I was wrong because my opinion differed to yours. Physician, heal thyself.

 

[$kelet0r]

I sincerely advise you to retake English as an educational subject - for a grown man to be unable to differentiate between opinion and fact is a little sad
Check the dictionary Pi before you insert your foot in your mouth

 

[Asknoone]

You are stepping into more holes than you can count, John.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

If you don't think it does, you have no basic knowledge of literature or story telling

Presenting opinion as fact.

=john3571000This WILL hurt the narrative, it will fracture it and remove the basic tenet of storytelling - coherence

Presenting opinion as fact.

Are you going to tell me that I'm wrong?

Yes

Presenting opinion as fact.

If you can't fail to see that breaking up a story breaks the coherence in a single narrative then well apart from lacking any literary background you havent a leg to stand on

Presenting opinion as fact.

my opinion - which is more valid than yours anyday

Presenting opinion as fact.

Obviously, I can differentiate between opinion and fact, or I wouldn't be pointing out that you are presenting your opinions as facts.

 

[Asknoone]

Who knew you could be so arrogant John? I think episodic content for HL2 is an excellent idea, and doesn't harm or damage the narrative in any way. I guess that means I fail at literature.

John the all knowing one.

 

[$kelet0r]

Correct me if I'm wrong here but isnt that what opinion is - to put forward the facts as I see them

The temptation to go 'durrr' is a bit overwhelming I have to say

I feel like I'm arguing with a 9 year old - Pi my respect for you has gone from above average to non existant - you cannot even argue with me properly. For god sakes man you are entitled to your opinion but at least use it wisely. If you really disagree with me on the merits of what I am saying rather than just disagree with me because I'm not toeing the party line then say so but do it rationally without resorting to cheap shots and flaming. I thought you at least as one of the community leaders would be above that...a sad day

edit - So Samon believing in what you say is now arrogance? Hell, if saying anything that amounts to opinion is an admission of arrogance than what's the point of having a forum at all?

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

You obviously never learned to express your opinions properly. You present them as your perspective on a subject. Opinions cannot be wrong because they are entirely subjective. Therefore, telling people that their opinions are wrong is invalid.

I'm sure you don't need me to tell you how much your level of respect for me matters to me.

As for "disagree(ing) with me because I'm not toeing the party line". What. On. Earth? What is this supposed "Party line" that I'm toeing? I disagree with what you say, and that's me toeing the party line? You really should stop making stuff up. It's making you look foolish.
Speaking of which: "resorting to cheap shots and flaming". I smiled, somewhat wryly at that. Surely I don't need to refer you to your first post? Just in case, here's the quote:

No doubt some asshole fanboy (i'm looking at you Samon)

.

Gosh. Will you look at that? Both a cheap shot and a flame. Tsk.

 

[Asknoone]

The respect metre lowers. I'd have to put on some good acting to appear bothered.

 

[^Ben]

I'm toeing the party line babyeeeeeee.

 

[$kelet0r]

Originally Posted by john3571000
No doubt some asshole fanboy (i'm looking at you Samon)

.

Gosh. Will you look at that? Both a cheap shot and a flame. Tsk.

and you both responded so eloquently
Kudos, kudos.
Now I'll go cry myself to sleep because 2 faceless witless wonders on the intraweb say they have no respect for me
Get back to me Pi when you read this back to yourself

You obviously never learned to express your opinions properly. You present them as your perspective on a subject. Opinions cannot be wrong because they are entirely subjective. Therefore, telling people that their opinions are wrong is invalid.

You still havent taken my advice and found out what the word 'opinion' means - shame really, understanding that word will make life a whole lot easier for you

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

and you both responded so eloquently
Kudos, kudos.
Now I'll go cry myself to sleep because 2 faceless witless wonders on the intraweb say they have no respect for me

Actually, you said that, not me. I just pointed out that I didn't care. Great attempt at the affected nonchalance though. Pity about the strawman you built it on.

Get back to me Pi when you read this back to yourself

You still havent taken my advice and found out what the word 'opinion' means - shame really, understanding that word will make life a whole lot easier for you

There's little point even trying to argue with you - you cherry-pick your responses, ignoring the points that you have no answer for, and you reiterate the same meaningless response every time. To whit, that I don't know what "opinion" means. Well, if the fact that I've proved it several times throughout this thread isn't sufficient for you, then there's nothing more I'm prepared to do. My 5-year-old son exhibits greater debating talents than you (although you've got him soundly beat on the repetition.)

Edit - just for a laugh:

Opinion: A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof

Fact: Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed

 

[^Ben]

I AM BOB ROSS!

 

[Llama]

You are spamming.
Also, who is Bob Ross?
Also, why has this entire thread thread gone to shit? Lets get it on topic again

Hello everyone, I just finished playing and beat HL2 last night for the first time. Great game.

But I have a few questions, first do headcrabs view the combine humans such as the civil protection as enemies or do they just attack the humans in the resistance force? I never noticed a headcrab leaping at CP's but I may have just missed it. It seems to me that headcrabs are unintelligent and will attach to the first thing they can jump at.

second, Why did Ravenholm in particular get shelled with headcrab pods and not any other part of the city 17? Did they just randomly pick a town to infest or what?

And also at the end where was Dr. Breen going to teleport to, and why? He was talking to some giant thing on a screen and then he ran away before I could understand what he was saying.

Headcrabs are merely parasitic life with animal instincts. A skull is a skull, any head is worth humping, Combine or Not I do believe there will be Combine Zombies in Episode 1
Ravenholme was shelled after Black Mesa East started sending large numbers of resistence troops there, mainly civilians. So, rather than waste troops, the Combine infected the entire place with headcrabs and sealed up the entrances.
Breen was getting onto that teleporter to travel to a Combine world, to escape your wrath. He was also going to obtain a host body in the process

 

[Asknoone]

Now I'll go cry myself to sleep because 2 faceless witless wonders on the intraweb say they have no respect for me

Yes, because I said I had no respect for you. Read again.

 

[Llama]

PLEASE, TOPIC!

*small voice* Pweety pweese Meester Mod Sir? Ignore him, isn't worth it

 

[$kelet0r]

Yes, because I said I had no respect for you. Read again.

Well if it's any solace, I always thought you were a nice guy - we had many good debates in the mythology forum. It would horrifically immature of me to hold a grudge against someone who disagreed with me - either you or Pi even if he still doesnt understand the meaning of the word opinion

Still if you expect me to roll over and say 'no you're right - having a disjoint narrative will do harm to what should be a unified coherent story and I should spend my money on a generous 5 hours of gameplay like all the good little forumites' well you're not getting any satisfaction. It is a simple point - if it sounds like repetition Pi it's because there is only one issue at hand here. You obviously don't debate much, argue maybe but debating is an artform and you sir are a novice at it. You're 5 year old would be easier to argue with - ask him what he thinks of seeing a 30 minute episode of Postman Pat with a further 5 minute conclusion to be shown 6 hours later. He might like it, he might not but if he's anything like a normal child he'll ask 'why can't I see it NOW?'

 

[Llama]

Oh for ****s sake. ALL OF YOU, get back on the ****ing topic. This is absolutly pathetic

 

[$kelet0r]

be cool llama, the thread creator's questions were answered

 

[kupocake]

be cool llama, the thread creator's questions were answered

Or alternatively he started reading a thread full of arguing and figured that the HL2.net forums probably weren't for him...

This is probably all for the best, because I made an insulting remark about cheerleaders that should probably be kept buried, because it was either simply not funny or otherwise just rude.

 

[$kelet0r]

possibly - it has happened a hell of a lot in the past
personally I hope he does decide to continue posting, this is a great community - my favourite anyhow

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Well if it's any solace, I always thought you were a nice guy - we had many good debates in the mythology forum. It would horrifically immature of me to hold a grudge against someone who disagreed with me - either you or Pi even if he still doesnt understand the meaning of the word opinion

Still if you expect me to roll over and say 'no you're right - having a disjoint narrative will do harm to what should be a unified coherent story and I should spend my money on a generous 5 hours of gameplay like all the good little forumites' well you're not getting any satisfaction. It is a simple point - if it sounds like repetition Pi it's because there is only one issue at hand here. You obviously don't debate much, argue maybe but debating is an artform and you sir are a novice at it. You're 5 year old would be easier to argue with - ask him what he thinks of seeing a 30 minute episode of Postman Pat with a further 5 minute conclusion to be shown 6 hours later. He might like it, he might not but if he's anything like a normal child he'll ask 'why can't I see it NOW?'

Straw man. You've made up a point, and you're happily arguing against it. That isn't debate, it's a soliloquy. I suggest you try and find someone that cares, because I really don't. I've tried to point out several times that I don't expect you to agree with me. My issue was with the way you present what you say. Your continued ignorance of that, and your bizarre decision to decide that I meant something else entirely just means that I've lost interest. So have fun.

 

[Asknoone]

Oh, nevermind.

 

[$kelet0r]

Straw man. You've made up a point, and you're happily arguing against it. That isn't debate, it's a soliloquy. I suggest you try and find someone that cares, because I really don't. I've tried to point out several times that I don't expect you to agree with me. My issue was with the way you present what you say. Your continued ignorance of that, and your bizarre decision to decide that I meant something else entirely just means that I've lost interest. So have fun.

so now you're accusing me of flipflopping and making up a point just now? What the hell?

I've tried to point out several times that I don't expect you to agree with me

where? the thread went a little something like this

ambientecho - questions and I'm so glad to have finished the game
me - answers and you havent finished the game - something i'm not happy about
ben - sarcasm
me - actually all that sarcasm is my real opinion - episodic will hurt a coherent narrative (7th post)
pi -'I have an advanced knowledge of literature and story-telling, and I don't believe that episodic content hurts the narrative in the slightest. Are you going to tell me that I'm wrong?'
me - yeah
pi - you are wrong - i have experience. how dare you say i am wrong.
me - my opinion disagrees (post 1 page 2)
pi - expressing opinion as fact
me - you don't know what the word means
pi - opinion as fact.opinion as fact.opinion as fact.opinion as fact.opinion as fact.
me - opinion is to put forward the facts as I see them
pi - You present opinions as your perspective on a subject (couldn't have said it better myself)
me - you don't know what the word means
pi - i do so and and and my 5 year old can argue better than you strawman

You still don't understand Pi - Would you feel more comfortable if I and everyone else put the words 'in my opinion' before every single sentence we utter. Because that is your argument and what this whole argument boils down to - because I said something that didnt have a disclaimer like 'this statement may or may not agree with yours', you took everything I said as a personal attack on you. And the fact that you don't seem to understand the word opinion makes the situation laughable. Digging won't get you out of a hole.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Jesus Christ, you are so full of yourself it is frightening.

pi - you are wrong - i have experience. how dare you say i am wrong.

At no point did I say you were wrong. Stop making things up. I said that you cannot say that someone's opinion is wrong. Something that you have repeatedly done. In this way, you are expressing your opinions as if they are FACTS. Opinions are not facts, they are (as you agree) your perspective on a subject. If you believe (as you have said) that people are entitled to their opinion, then it cannot be incorrect. People can be factually incorrect, but their opinions cannot be.

Are you understanding yet? I am more than happy with opinions. Opinions are great. I love opinions. What I don't love is someone telling someone else that their opinions are wrong. Or that their opinion is worth less.

So your assertion that "Would you feel more comfortable if I and everyone else put the words 'in my opinion' before every single sentence we utter. Because that is your argument and what this whole argument boils down to" is utterly wrong, because once again you are trying to put words in my mouth.

Also, your frankly ridiculous assertion that I don't know what "opinion" means is becoming offensive. I even provided the dictionary definition in one of my posts. Everything I have said in this thread fits with that definition.

So either respond to the points that I made or stop posting. Making arguments up just isn't cutting it.