America's army: recruiting tool or game

[CptStern]

very interesting article on the army's involvement in the game Americas Army. Contrary to popular belief the army had little involvement in it's creation. Some interesting tidbits:

"The Army is basically clueless when it comes to making games and they don't know how to treat people, especially game developers. They had an A-level team, but I honestly don't see
them building another one (particularly since they weren't the ones who built the first one). "

"Working on the game was a wacky adventure, and not the
type of thing most game developers will ever experience. The job of a game developer is pretty strange as it is, but making a game for the Army was a down right surreal experience."


"Once the Army figured out that the game was the single most successful marketing campaign they'd ever launched (at 1/3rd of 1% of their annual advertising budget), we suddenly came under a very big microscope."




personally I dont agree with marketing a game as a tool for army recruitment ...it's just not in any way a realistic portrayal of what it is to die for someone elses ideals. It's the ultimate in false advertising

 

[Bodacious]

Both. I remember when it was being developed they said it was going to be a recruiting tool. That is why it is free.

 

[Razor]

personally I dont agree with a game as a marketing tool for tghe army ...it's just not in any way a realistic portrayal of what it is to die for someone elses ideals. It's in the ultimate in false advertising

But it does give people a look at life training to be in the US army and probably helps to distill a few myths as well. And i don't see it as anywhere close to false advertising, any one can see that if you die in game, it is end of the round, but if you die in real life, game over. I mean, i could understand your point if it was just running round killing people, but it isn't, there is a lot of intellectual stuff in there; the first aid classes, the vehicle recognition classes, etc. All of which help you to discover what you're going to go through if you decide to join the army.


Would it shock you to know that through playing flight simulators all my life, like Lock On, f117 NightHawk 2, B17: The Mighty Eigth, etc, i would like a career in the Raf as a pilot?

 

[CptStern]

yes but it gives you a false sense of security that every engagement is winnable ..which is not the case ..especially when it comes to the war on terror ..Humvee's with huge machine guns (sorry I'm not a military buff I dont know the names) soldiers armed to the teeth, airstrikes, artillery etc is ineffectual when it comes to a roadside bomb. In the game I'm liable to take risks that I never would in real life ...(joining the army would be top on that list). Sure it illustrates what life in army could be like but it's like comparing reading the back of a dvd case and saying you know what the movie's about

 

[Bodacious]

yes but it gives you a false sense of security that every engagement is winnable ..which is not the case ..especially when it comes to the war on terror ..Humvee's with huge machine guns (sorry I'm not a military buff I dont know the names) soldiers armed to the teeth, airstrikes, artillery etc is ineffectual when it comes to a roadside bomb. In the game I'm liable to take risks that I never would in real life ...(joining the army would be top on that list). Sure it illustrates what life in army could be like but it's like comparing reading the back of a dvd case and saying you know what the movie's about

So are you relying on the assumption that most the poeple who sign up for the armed forces are low class and only sign up to get the college benefits?

 

[CptStern]

So are you relying on the assumption that most the poeple who sign up for the armed forces are low class and only sign up to get the college benefits?

how the hell did you jump to that conclusion? :O

 

[No Limit]

yes but it gives you a false sense of security that every engagement is winnable ..which is not the case ..especially when it comes to the war on terror ..Humvee's with huge machine guns (sorry I'm not a military buff I dont know the names) soldiers armed to the teeth, airstrikes, artillery etc is ineffectual when it comes to a roadside bomb. In the game I'm liable to take risks that I never would in real life ...(joining the army would be top on that list). Sure it illustrates what life in army could be like but it's like comparing reading the back of a dvd case and saying you know what the movie's about

I agree that it is a form of propaganda but it is no different than running advertising on TV, sending recruits to schools, offering collage incentives, etc... I haven't played the game yet but from what I understand it is a fun game. I think most people that actually go in to the army that played this game don't go in because of it; they were already planning on going. It would be interesting to see some stats on how many people that play this game actually go in to the army.

 

[No Limit]

So are you relying on the assumption that most the poeple who sign up for the armed forces are low class and only sign up to get the college benefits?

Actually this is true to some degree. I am not saying this is always the case but growing up poor a lot of people see the army as an escape from poverty, which it is. I had a number of friends that couldn't get their parents to pay for collage so they went in to the army which is a great thing.

However, I also don't understand how you came to that conclusion from Stern's post.

 

[jimbo118]

Actually this is true to some degree. I am not saying this is always the case but growing up poor a lot of people see the army as an escape from poverty, which it is. I had a number of friends that couldn't get their parents to pay for collage so they went in to the army which is a great thing.

However, I also don't understand how you came to that conclusion from Stern's post.

yes it is i saw a documentary on it,the army are specifically targetting poorer areas,particurly african-american and hispanic with the promise of college grants etc,

 

[CptStern]

I haven't played the game yet but from what I understand it is a fun game.

yes but army life isnt fun ..well combat isnt. I'd completely agree with you if there was 0% chance of dying in the army but the reality is that no game no matter how technically proficient will ever be able to reproduce the anxiety the adreneline the fear that real combat brings. There are countless stories of people doing some strange things in combat, and I'm sure if you asked them about it they'd probably wouldnt be able to explain it ...you just cant reproduce that visceral experiece sitting in front of a computer

 

[Razor]

how the hell did you jump to that conclusion? :O

I have to agree with No Limit, apart from the fact that i think the game is a better representation of what a person is getting into then any tv ad or magazine ad is. In Britain, the army ads are all about being the best and doing exciting things that you wouldn't get the opportunity to do in the civilian world, it gives no information on training or anything like that. Do you think that those sorts of tv ads are better then the games?

 

[Bodacious]

how the hell did you jump to that conclusion? :O

By you saying that people playing a video game is going to somehow make people sign up thinking the army is going to be easy. Basically, it seems as though you don't give the recruits any intellectual credit, like they just signed up and were tricked or something.

It isn't the army's fault these people don't know what they are getting into, especially in this day and age when the horrors of war are all over the news.

 

[Razor]

yes but army life isnt fun ..well combat isnt. I'd completely agree with you if there was 0% chance of dying in the army but the reality is that no game no matter how technically proficient will ever be able to reproduce the anxiety the adreneline the fear that real combat brings. There are countless stories of people doing some strange things in combat, and I'm sure if you asked them about it they'd probably wouldnt be able to explain it ...you just cant reproduce that visceral experiece sitting in front of a computer

I don't think the game ever tries and ever claims to do that, i think all it is designed to do is to introduce potential new recruits to the training scheme through a fun way that a lot of teenagers can relate to i.e. a computer game.

 

[jimbo118]

yes but army life isnt fun ..well combat isnt. I'd completely agree with you if there was 0% chance of dying in the army but the reality is that no game no matter how technically proficient will ever be able to reproduce the anxiety the adreneline the fear that real combat brings. There are countless stories of people doing some strange things in combat, and I'm sure if you asked them about it they'd probably wouldnt be able to explain it ...you just cant reproduce that visceral experiece sitting in front of a computer

stern,your my kinda guy :thumbs:

 

[No Limit]

yes but army life isnt fun ..well combat isnt. I'd completely agree with you if there was 0% chance of dying in the army but the reality is that no game no matter how technically proficient will ever be able to reproduce the anxiety the adreneline the fear that real combat brings. There are countless stories of people doing some strange things in combat, and I'm sure if you asked them about it they'd probably wouldnt be able to explain it ...you just cant reproduce that visceral experiece sitting in front of a computer

I agree, combat is hell. But I think most people that play the game are aware of this. I mean look at the tv ads they run, it is no different. Like a comedian once said, from the TV ads it seems like everyone gets their own tank, their own helicopter, and enough weapons to start WWIII but they never show the guy sitting there peeling potatos for hours.

Yes, it is some of the largest propaganda around but it is no different than what they have been doing for decades.

 

[CptStern]

yes but it is ultimately misleading ..all of the training with none of the effort, combat without the risk

I watched a documentary recently on the Passionate eye called Off to War


and of all the soldiers they interviewed thought saddam was behind 9/11. By the end of the program every last one of them said they didnt want to be there, they just wanted to go home. I felt bad for some of these kids because they had such unrealistic expectations before they left. I realise that the army has an agenda of recruiting so they're not too concerned about promoting the reality of war, but at some point these people taking risks should be informed of what they face BEFORE they commit themselves ..just my opinion

 

[Bodacious]

There is a lot to military service that I don't think many people here understand.

For one, if you want socialism, the military is where you should be, and the reason I got out.

For two, for every one person pulling a trigger there are 3 supporting him and those people never pull a trigger. During my 3 month tour in Iraq I never fied a shot and never saw a dead body.

I could add more if I had time, but my point is, the army isn't what most perceive it to be, for good or bad. I have been there and the good outweighs the bad, if you can deal wit the socialism.

 

[Bodacious]

yes but it is ultimately misleading ..all of the training with none of the effort, combat without the risk

I watched a documentary recently on the Passionate eye called Off to War


and of all the soldiers they interviewed thought saddam was behind 9/11. By the end of the program every last one of them said they didnt want to be there, they just wanted to go home. I felt bad for some of these kids because they had such unrealistic expectations before they left. I realise that the army has an agenda of recruiting so they're not too concerned about promoting the reality of war, but at some point these people taking risks should be informed of what they face BEFORE they commit themselves ..just my opinion

But why is it the army's fault?

 

[CptStern]

I agree, combat is hell. But I think most people that play the game are aware of this. I mean look at the tv ads they run, it is no different. Like a comedian once said, from the TV ads it seems like everyone gets their own tank, their own helicopter, and enough weapons to start WWIII but they never show the guy sitting there peeling potatos for hours.

Yes, it is some of the largest propaganda around but it is no different than what they have been doing for decades.

I agree, but these games are deliberately targeting a specific audience. An audience (using this forum as an example) that may or may not be mature enough to handle the reality of war. I'm sure many of military veterans would agree with me, that they dont want to fight alongside someone who's going to rush the enemy bunny hopping from cover to cover (I'm exagerating)

 

[Razor]

yes but it is ultimately misleading ..all of the training with none of the effort, combat without the risk

I watched a documentary recently on the Passionate eye called Off to War


and of all the soldiers they interviewed thought saddam was behind 9/11. By the end of the program every last one of them said they didnt want to be there, they just wanted to go home. I felt bad for some of these kids because they had such unrealistic expectations before they left. I realise that the army has an agenda of recruiting so they're not too concerned about promoting the reality of war, but at some point these people taking risks should be informed of what they face BEFORE they commit themselves ..just my opinion

The problem is Stern, that even training can't truely prepare you for the horrors of war. I still think America's Army the computer game is a far better way of advertising then a tv ad ever will, due to the fact that it isn't just some soldier stood there telling everyone how fun it is. I am not sure how easy it is to join the US Army, but with the raf, it takes months of interviews, tests, medicals and forms that you all need to go through. If they don't think you're up to it, you won't be allowed to join.

 

[CptStern]

But why is it the army's fault?

what do you mean "why"? it's self evident. The army has a responsiblity to take care of their soldiers ...as soon as you sign those enlistment papers you become the property of the army which implies legal responsibility over that person.

 

[Razor]

I agree, but these games are deliberately targeting a specific audience. An audience (using this forum as an example) that may or may not be mature enough to handle the reality of war. I'm sure many of military veterans would agree with me, that they dont want to fight alongside someone who's going to rush the enemy bunny hopping from cover to cover (I'm exagerating)

The army would prepare the troops as best they can for combat, the people who joined by playing the game had a glimpse of what the training would be like, much more then a tv interview could do, they get to sit some of the first aid classes and see how well they do, and they get to have a bit of fun with playing the game. They apply to join the army and the army teaches them how to survive in combat. It isn't brainwashing kids into thinking the army is the greatest job on Earth, all it does is give kids a look at what army training is and lets them walk some of the tactics, like working as a team.

I don't see why you're having a such a huge problem with it, would you apply the same opinion to flight simulators like Lock On: Modern Air Combat?

And yes, the Army does take care of the recruits.

 

[CptStern]

The problem is Stern, that even training can't truely prepare you for the horrors of war.

yes but training can at least provide a foundation ...through training you're preparing your body for combat ..it's not just mental preparation but physical

I still think America's Army the computer game is a far better way of advertising then a tv ad ever will, due to the fact that it isn't just some soldier stood there telling everyone how fun it is. I am not sure how easy it is to join the US Army, but with the raf, it takes months of interviews, tests, medicals and forms that you all need to go through. If they don't think you're up to it, you won't be allowed to join.

yes but the difference between an ad and a game is that you're not actively involved in a an advertisement, you're a spectator, in a game you're a participant. I havent really gotten that into the game but I'm not so sure it deals with the consequnces of war in an in-depth manner. You dont see suffering in games, you dont feel any passions (besides superficial ones), you dont experience what it is to be on the field ..in that sense it's misleading

 

[CptStern]

I don't see why you're having a such a huge problem with it, would you apply the same opinion to flight simulators like Lock On: Modern Air Combat?

And yes, the Army does take care of the recruits.

I'm not making a big deal of it ...and I cant comment of flight sims because I've never played one

 

[No Limit]

The army would prepare the troops as best they can for combat, the people who joined by playing the game had a glimpse of what the training would be like, much more then a tv interview could do, they get to sit some of the first aid classes and see how well they do, and they get to have a bit of fun with playing the game. They apply to join the army and the army teaches them how to survive in combat. It isn't brainwashing kids into thinking the army is the greatest job on Earth, all it does is give kids a look at what army training is and lets them walk some of the tactics, like working as a team.

I don't see why you're having a such a huge problem with it, would you apply the same opinion to flight simulators like Lock On: Modern Air Combat?

And yes, the Army does take care of the recruits.

I haven't played the game but I strongly doubt the training there is anywhere close to how the real army is. This is just another medium for advertising (to use a lighter word than propaganda). When you advertise something you only show the great things, you never show the bad. How many recruits do you think they would get if the game was about who could peel potatos the fastest or if it was about your friends getting killed?

To be honest I always respected the army as it is a great way for people to get their life back on the right track but this not to say that the way they recruit is always honest.

 

[gh0st]

Its just a recruiting tool to get people excited about joining the army. Its not meant to be perfectly realistic in every respect, its a damn game, I'm not sure what standards YOU hold it up to. Its a fun game, its free, enjoy it.

 

[jondy]

Its just a recruiting tool to get people excited about joining the army.

Yeah, I think that's people's problem with it

 

[GhostFox]

After playing AA I decided to set-up a real life AA game on my front street. I bought some used Russian weapons from a Lybian arms dealer and split my friends into two sides. But when the round was over, no one got back up.

I was so confused.

 

[Razor]

yes but training can at least provide a foundation ...through training you're preparing your body for combat ..it's not just mental preparation but physical




yes but the difference between an ad and a game is that you're not actively involved in a an advertisement, you're a spectator, in a game you're a participant. I havent really gotten that into the game but I'm not so sure it deals with the consequnces of war in an in-depth manner. You dont see suffering in games, you dont feel any passions (besides superficial ones), you dont experience what it is to be on the field ..in that sense it's misleading

I had a look at a Royal Navy recruiting poster at the gym today, right next to a childrens ballet class poster and a fun run for everyone. The key points it brought up to why someone should consider joining the navy are a pension scheme, competitive wag, and adventure, nothing on the poster about dying or even having to fight for your country, nothing about training, just a picture of a warship and lots of talk about pension schemes, how exciting it is to be in the navy and the salary.

America's Army has details on training, a brief over run and examples of first aid classes, shooting ranges, parachute training, special forces training, tactics, camoflage, etc.

Both are un-obtrusive, free, give a good insight into the good things the armed forces offer, but America's army goes over the training side of it as well. Which is better? Reading a poster for the Royal Navy won't make someone run out on and join up, same with playing America's Army won't get some 18 year to run out and join up just on a whim. And even though the Us army only officially use America's Army as a recruiting tool, games such as Operation Flashpoint could also be brought into the same light, a realistic war simulator that shows no bad sides of war, if you die, you start the level again, etc.

edit: What you will need to do Stern, to prove your point to me, is to round up all the recruits who joined because of America's Army and to have them tell me that they regret joining the army and they blame America's Army game for that fact.

 

[No Limit]

After playing AA I decided to set-up a real life AA game on my front street. I bought some used Russian weapons from a Lybian arms dealer and split my friends into two sides. But when the round was over, no one got back up.

I was so confused.

Just a bunch of damn hackers!!!!

 

[Razor]

Just a bunch of damn hackers!!!!

That, or they could of lagged out.

 

[jondy]

That, or they could of lagged out.

I say lag. How fast is your reality connection?

 

[bliink]

Topic.

 

[Raziaar]

The game was announced to be a recruiting tool right from the beginning. So what's the need for this topic anyways? When I first played it, when I first anticipated it... I knew it was an out-in-open recruiting tool. That didn't bother me.

I hope you didn't think when it was announced stern, that it wasn't meant to be a recruiting tool despite what they told everybody?

 

[Sainku]

When I first got this game and started playing I was like wow this is so real, then I got in a fire fight and it took like 9 rounds to drop this guy. Since I'm just a typical brainwashed American and have the government make my decisions, I knew this is exactly what it was like in real life. I thought this was fun and joined the army.

To my suprise I was killed with one shot in the chest! What the heck. The worst part is I didn't even get to come back after I died, real life is nothing like this game. Now that I look back at it, I was kind of foolish to not make the distinction between a flawed attempt at a realistic game and actual combat, now I am simply one more dead soldier statistic in one of cpt.sterns numerous anti-war posts. If only I knew then what I know now


WARNING: This post may have been a satire.

 

[Raziaar]

When I first got this game and started playing I was like wow this is so real, then I got in a fire fight and it took like 9 rounds to drop this guy. Since I'm just a typical brainwashed American and have the government make my decisions, I knew this is exactly what it was like in real life. I thought this was fun and joined the army.

To my suprise I was killed with one shot in the chest! What the heck. The worst part is I didn't even get to come back after I died, real life is nothing like this game. Now that I look back at it, I was kind of foolish to not make the distinction between a flawed attempt at a realistic game and actual combat, now I am simply one more dead soldier statistic in one of cpt.sterns numerous anti-war posts. If only I knew then what I knew now


WARNING: This post may have been a satire.

Not sure how the latest versions of it is, but when it was first released, you died VERY easily. a shot to the head or chest. One will take ya down.

 

[Sainku]

Not sure how the latest versions of it is, but when it was first released, you died VERY easily. a shot to the head or chest. One will take ya down.

I could always take 3 in the chest or 1 in the head before I went down. I exaggerated a little bit, oops.

 

[gh0st]

I guess I just dont see the problem with the Army trying to appeal to youth. Kids play games, games make them excited about the Army (which is NOT a bad thing to join), kids may or may not join Army. Who gives a shit?

 

[GhostFox]

My friend Jimmy tried the "God cheat", but he still fell down when I shot him in the head. He didn't get back up either. I told him that he needed to have a chat console or it wouldn't work, but he thought he could just write it on the street in chalk.

Stupid Jimmy.

 

[Raziaar]

My friend Jimmy tried the "God cheat", but he still fell down when I shot him in the head. He didn't get back up either. I told him that he needed to have a chat console so it wouldn't work, but he thought he could just write it on the street in chalk.

Stupid Jimmy.

lol. Goober.