It's time we saw Gordon Freeman

[SpectreBlofeld]

Ok... Valve needs to get over their fear of reflective surfaces in the HL universe. We have yet to see a bathroom with a mirror.

They need to conjure up an official Gordon Freeman model and start adding in more reflective surfaces. Imagine being inside a building which is well-lit, and you move over to the window to look out into the night sky... and are surprised that they added a translucent reflection to the window, seeing yourself and the room behind you. It would add realism to the game.

But then they'd have to decide if Gordon is wearing the helmet on his HEV suit or not If he is, those conversations you have with Alyx seem pretty awkward all of a sudden, when you're the only douchebag wearing a fricking space suit, like he's the guy who mistakenly thought the party was a costume party. If he's not, then things like 'suit zoom' become a little hard to explain.

 

[Acepilotf14]

Wrong.
It would ruin the mood of the game.
Fail.
/inbeforeflame

 

[SpectreBlofeld]

Do explain, please. Unless you think the 'mood of the game' should be 'unrealistic'. In which case, I don't care.

 

[Acepilotf14]

Because the mood of the game is that you are Gordon, and as such, you should see yourself in the suit.
Bungie did the same thing with Halo.

 

[MJ12]

Yeah, but Halo didn't do it nearly as good. Because they had cinematics, and they had him talk.

 

[Sgt.Tibbs]

yeah... hard to imagine myself as a kickass space marine with cybernetic enhancements and a deep voice killing scores upon scores of aliens swearing obscenities at me... what say you?

 

[CQ-Reborn]

Well, if the suit helmet looked like a MasterChief suit helmet it would match the hazard suit perfectly and look awesome.

 

[Ridge]

Except the hazard suit was designed to protect Gordon from interplanetary diseases and god knows what else can happen to you while playing with space rocks and huge lasers...it wasnt designed to fight aliens, it just happens to be good at doing it...

 

[SpectreBlofeld]

Because the mood of the game is that you are Gordon, and as such, you should see yourself in the suit.
Bungie did the same thing with Halo.

Then kindly explain to me all the concept art and box covers that show Gordon as a guy with short-cropped hair, a goatee, and glasses, 'cause that sure ain't me.

 

[Sgt.Tibbs]

you know what? reborn has a pretty good point. just do some color alterations here and there, maybe reduce the size and you would have a great HEV suit helmet

 

[SpectreBlofeld]

Ah, the Halo armor is just a pale imitation of the original Marine from DooM anyway:

 

[Sgt.Tibbs]

... those colors are wierd

 

[Acepilotf14]

The HEV helmet likely is simply a radiation-resistant bubbley sort of thing that wraps up.. If you go into HL1 DM, you can see a model for it. Also, the dead scientists on Xen in HL1 have them on.

 

[CyberPitz]

Haven't we had this conversation a odd million times so far? The arguments are always the same. A couple people want to see Gordon, most people say no because it would ruin everything Valve have worked for in order to immense you into the game. YOU may not play to be immersed, but most are playing it for that same reason.

 

[Narvi]

It would completely go against the trend.

 

[Paulaner]

Just wondering, is there an official Freeman model buried in the game files?

 

[Lucid]

I seriously would not be bothered if we saw Gordon.
We see him on box art and in concept art, we saw him in Opposing Force, we saw his model in HLDM(I think.).

 

[SpectreBlofeld]

It would completely go against the trend.

What trend? The trend of hardware and software limitations?

 

[SpectreBlofeld]

Haven't we had this conversation a odd million times so far? The arguments are always the same. A couple people want to see Gordon, most people say no because it would ruin everything Valve have worked for in order to immense you into the game. YOU may not play to be immersed, but most are playing it for that same reason.

How in God's name would it make the game less immersive? If anything it should make it MORE so.

 

[McGooTheWise]

How in God's name would it make the game less immersive? If anything it should make it MORE so.

I think this argument can stop here. he obviously has no clue what he's talking about. Not that he has any real point anyway...

 

[SpectreBlofeld]

I think this argument can stop here. he obviously has no clue what he's talking about. Not that he has any real point anyway...

Then please enlighten me, oh wise one. Bestow your wisdom upon me. Or **** off unless you have something useful to say.

 

[Absinthe]

How about... no.

This same argument was brought up back before the original HL2 was released and it's still retarded. People ended up posting the most stupid, dumbass suggestions for something that would fundamentally break Valve's design of the player character. Furthermore, there's no need for it. There's never been a need for it. Why throw it in just for the sake of it? I don't know about you, but it's not like I need to be reminded I'm Gordon Freeman.

The entire design paradigm revolving around the protagonist is creating an immersing experience without cues from the main character. We've all played games where the character you play lets out a spiel about how he wants revenge or what he needs to do, regardless of whether or not the player thinks the same. Valve's aim has been to forego these kinds of detrimental mechanics, instead trying to create a motivating environment that doesn't need explanation from your character. Your character shouldn't have to remind you to feel sad when something bad happens. If Valve pulled it off right, you should feel saddened. Valve chose not to have Gordon speak not only to avoid cliched point-of-view narration that feels like the player's direction is being forced, but also because it paid off in spades to have a mute protagonist motivated by other characters and happenings in the game world, with no dissonance on the player's end. This does, of course, entail a few odd moments where you just want to blurt out "What the hell's happening?!" to another character. But that's a small sacrifice done for the sake of consistency, and I think it's proven to be something of a quirky charm for many fans.

What does all that have to do with this topic? Well, the visual image of Gordon Freeman is the same deal. Yes, the character does have his own name, as well as a face to go along with it. But that really should be it. That's the shell of a role the player assumes. And the reason it's worked so well is because it rests nearly entirely on the player's projections, something I find to be a far more efficient way of generating emotional/immersive feedback than any reflective surface can. If I was battling against a pack of hunters in some abandoned building and suddenly gazed across a mirror and saw myself, what would I see looking back at me? A blank stare? Some kind of "angry" facial expression? That is a surefire way to remove me from my character; when Gordon Freeman no longer reflects my internal dialogue. This is the problem. Either Valve doesn't bother at all and leaves Gordon lookinglike an eternally-staring husk or they try to force visual cues in the reflection. Both would fall flat on their faces.

It would be a step backwards, I think. We're not talking about an NPC that can be scripted tightly with all its body posturing and facial animation. You can't script the player character's expressions in a game like this without it looking stupid and out-of-place. I remember playing Prey. The moment it took me out of the beginning first-person scripted cutscene and I ran around in front of the mirror, I was reminded instantly that it was merely a game. And I consequently did not give a shit about my character or anybody else for the entire duration.

Not that I need to worry. Valve seem to be sticking to their guns on this matter, and I don't blame them.

 

[Apocalypse89]

Although I can't say I wholly support "omg you are gordon freeman" argument, I'm against this for the same reason I'm against the "visible legs" argument, which is that it would be difficult to implement without making it look stupid. Valve manage to make their NPCs appear alive even when they're idle by having them look around, move their body a bit, talk , etc. A visible player model, on the other hand would stand perfectly still and staring in one direction unless the player makes a move, giving the appearance of some lifeless robot...

 

[Kyorisu]

Then please enlighten me, oh wise one. Bestow your wisdom upon me. Or **** off unless you have something useful to say.

The argument to be able to see Gordon is the same as the argument to be able to hear him speak. It's frankly a retarded idea to bring in so late to the series.

 

[Azner]

Aaaaaaaaahahahahahaha Owned.

 

[Kevin]

This reminds me of one of those threads back a while, that kept whining about not seeing you legs on ladders, no hands on steering wheel, "how can Gordon climb ladders while holding the gun with both hands!?" and some ass, who said that its not the gameplay that makes a game, its the graphics:x...

 

[Absinthe]

Although I can't say I wholly support "omg you are gordon freeman" argument, I'm against this for the same reason I'm against the "visible legs" argument, which is that it would be difficult to implement without making it look stupid. Valve manage to make their NPCs appear alive even when they're idle by having them look around, move their body a bit, talk , etc. A visible player model, on the other hand would stand perfectly still and staring in one direction unless the player makes a move, giving the appearance of some lifeless robot...

^^
My post condensed.

Bottom line is that it would seem out of place this far into the series and it would look stupid. It would probably cause Valve to get anthrax sent to them in the mail from disgruntled fans too. So nix the idea.

 

[SpectreBlofeld]

Why throw it in just for the sake of it?

Because in the real world, there are reflective surfaces.

Look, everyone here is ignoring the fact that the only reason they don't do it is because the technology didn't exist in 1998.

It has nothing to do with 'pretending you're in Gordon Freeman's place'. Gordon is a redheaded physicist with nerd glasses and a goatee.

 

[Pesmerga]

Just wondering, is there an official Freeman model buried in the game files?

No, but the people from Sven Coop have a gordon model for Source.

Look, everyone here is ignoring the fact that the only reason they don't do it is because the technology didn't exist in 1998.

You're ignoring the fact that despite technological limitations, cut-scenes still did exist. So Valve must have been on the same line of thinking as they are now- they've said it over and over again why they did it.

 

[SpectreBlofeld]

A visible player model, on the other hand would stand perfectly still and staring in one direction unless the player makes a move, giving the appearance of some lifeless robot...

It'd be trivially easy to make him blink, eyebrows shift, head move around a tad, etc.

The argument to be able to see Gordon is the same as the argument to be able to hear him speak.

No, it isn't.

 

[Pesmerga]

It'd be trivially easy to make him blink, eyebrows shift, head move around a tad, etc.

So let's model, rig, animate, texture, light, and choreograph a whole other character for the sole purpose of looking in a mirror.

You're the worst troll ever, by the way.

I was much better

 

[Shift]

No, it isn't.

Yes it is, and feel free to ask pretty much every genuine fan of the game on this forum, I can garuntee they will agree too. But anyway what joy could you possibly get from seeing your character in a mirror, you're honestly telling me, that you will jump for joy out of your seat shouting, "OMFG thats me! *orgasm*". It wont happen and most people on these forums are happy that it wont happen, so quit your bitching, or go cry about it on some other forums.

 

[Absinthe]

Because in the real world, there are reflective surfaces.

Look, everyone here is ignoring the fact that the only reason they don't do it is because the technology didn't exist in 1998.

It has nothing to do with 'pretending you're in Gordon Freeman's place'. Gordon is a redheaded physicist with nerd glasses and a goatee.

Regardless of the origins, it has worked out for the better.

You cry out as if this is hurting immersion, but not once did it ever cross my mind that I wasn't seeing a mirror in City 17. This is an absolute non-issue.

Maybe I just don't know how you're approaching this, as I don't know if you're using this as a rationale to see Freeman or if you just want reflective surfaces. It doesn't really matter, since the former is detrimental from a design standpoint and the latter is just eye candy; a triviality.

 

[SpectreBlofeld]

So let's model, rig, animate, texture, light, and choreograph a whole other character for the sole purpose of looking in a mirror.

You're the worst troll ever, by the way.

I was much better

Any reflective surface, including bodies of water. Look, I'm just talking about making the game more realistic. It won't make the game catch on fire, and it won't ruin the plot. At this point it would be easy to implement. And creating the model won't be as hard as you make it out to be.

 

[Pesmerga]

Have you ever modelled, unwrapped, textured, normal textured, and animated a complex character? Then written the code to perform those animations? Not to mention the fact that realtime reflections are a HUGE hit on performance (and something that is simply not part of the Source engine), it's just a silly trivial fuss that no one except you cares about.

 

[Absinthe]

So let's model, rig, animate, texture, light, and choreograph a whole other character for the sole purpose of looking in a mirror.

You're the worst troll ever, by the way.

I was much better

This is really all that needs to be said on a practical level. What a waste of work and effort it would be.

Oh Spectre, I also forgot to thank you for quoting one sentence from my post and absolutely failing to address the rest of it. So...

Thank you.

 

[Iron_cube]

This is the same "omg no hands driving" matter, they didnt make it that way = it'll simply stay like that. Get over it.

 

[SpectreBlofeld]

Yes it is, and feel free to ask pretty much every genuine fan of the game on this forum,

Any 'genuine' fan. Ah, the ol' 'No True Scotsman' fallacy. Look it up.

I can garuntee they will agree too.

Argumentum ad populum. Look it up.

But anyway what joy could you possibly get from seeing your character in a mirror, you're honestly telling me, that you will jump for joy out of your seat shouting, "OMFG thats me! *orgasm*".

Straw man fallacy. Look it up.

It wont happen and most people on these forums are happy that it wont happen, so quit your bitching, or go cry about it on some other forums.

Annnnd you're an idiot.

 

[Shift]

Any reflective surface, including bodies of water. Look, I'm just talking about making the game more realistic. It won't make the game catch on fire, and it won't ruin the plot. At this point it would be easy to implement. And creating the model won't be as hard as you make it out to be.

More realistic? The game isn't relished for its realism, but its plot, gameplay mechanics and immersion more than make up for that. You want to be able to see Gordon Freeman in a mirror, for the sake of it being slightly more realistic, but in the process, sacrificing a large amount of immersion. Its not really thinking within the games best interests really.

 

[Shift]

Annnnd you're an idiot.

Call me what ya like, at the end of day, YOU are wrong