Can Valve use the AI director for Half Life 2 Ep 3?

[deathcheckedin]

Can Valve use the AI director for Half Life 2 Ep 3?

 

[the cow says moo]

I was thinking about this. I think it would be cool if you were running through the snow and you met a random scouting party of hunters or a dropship. It could be interesting.

 

[huntingbear]

i heard they're tring to implement improvements they've made in L4D into other Valve games...not sure to what affect those will be however.

 

[nfreader]

I don't see this happening. The Half-Life 2 series is based around tactical encounters with the Combine. Soldiers are not zombies. They're more fun/challenging when each combat encounter is made by hand. If they hand it over to the director, you end up with swarms of soldiers coming after you. The director could be used to spawn mini-bosses, but HL2 lacks combine mini-bosses.

 

[MJ12]

AI Director in a HL game would not be my idea of fun.

 

[the cow says moo]

I don't see this happening. The Half-Life 2 series is based around tactical encounters with the Combine. Soldiers are not zombies. They're more fun/challenging when each combat encounter is made by hand. If they hand it over to the director, you end up with swarms of soldiers coming after you. The director could be used to spawn mini-bosses, but HL2 lacks combine mini-bosses.

What the hell are you talking about? I can understand that you don't want the director because HL uses scripted events, but everything else you say makes no sense.

Soldiers are not zombies.

Obviously this is true, but there are plenty of headcrab zombies in the game. Duh.

If they hand it over to the director, you end up with swarms of soldiers coming after you.

I don't think so. Why would they make the director spawn "swarms" of soldiers. They could just make the director spawn a couple of soldiers at a time.

 

[Jintor]

I think the zombie mentality and thus the mentality behind the AI director, and the perceived Combine mentality and the required mentality behind the Combine Director would be quite different.

 

[Pesmerga]

The AI director helps create suspense and originality in levels that are constantly played through hundreds of times. The effort it would take to proceduralize spawns in a linear, story-driven game is totally blown away by hand work done by game designers and experts in theatrics.

The AI "director" in L4D is simply a set of algorithms that observe the game and creates hordes and tank fights when the AI thinks its appropriate. Really, you could probably predict the next horde within a dozen seconds if you played enough.

The director has no use in HL2:Episode 3. None.

 

[Omnomnick]

They won't use it, Half Life is a linear based game, if quiet moments in Episode 2 were just interupted by combine invading it makes it unrealistic and unfair on the player. If the player just finds a small place to camp, he could fight off hundreds of combine, completely ignoring the idea that the combine is supposed to be weak at this point.

 

[G(ordon)-man]

No, they won't. Definitely won't. No-no. No way. Never.

 

[Eejit]

I guess they could use it on an Antlion level or something.

 

[ríomhaire]

You could have both scripted encounters and directed encounters.

 

[Barnz]

Lombardi said they might use it in Episode Three.

 

[G(ordon)-man]

I guess they could use it on an Antlion level or something.

Good idea.

 

[swan_song1973]

I was thinking about this. I think it would be cool if you were running through the snow and you met a random scouting party of hunters or a dropship. It could be interesting.

thats probably it though, i dont think ep3 could make too much use of it since its a completely different kind of single player game.

 

[PimpinPenguin]

I supposed it could work in a arena type area having it flood with Headcrabs and stuff, but not in normal type game play. The action is way to controlled in the Episodes to prevent Fatigue so before the action starts it's time for a break.

 

[lord_raken]

They could modify it to be used for HL but it would have to function very differently. I could see a heavily modified version of the director used for antlions or zombies. The combine would have their own director and they would call it "Dispatch" (you know the female voice that dispatches the soldiers) there would be scripted events and battles but Dispatch would watch you through cameras and scanners if you get spotted by one Dispatch will spawn combine to attack you from various locations. this would make stealth and actual part of the game instead of a simulation. so you sneak around or hid from the cameras and destroy the scanners before they spot you or else you will be dealing with some combine in short order. the spawn points would be more limited than in L4D.

 

[( sic )]

I think people are thinking that the AI Director would be used exactly how it is in Left 4 Dead. I'd imagine that if they did want to implement the AI Director into Episode 3, they would greatly enhance or change what the Director did, how it did it and when. This would essentially change the linear style of gameplay that we've grown accustomed to with the Half-Life series, so I honestly don't see it being implemented or it being used throughout the entire game.

 

[Sheepo]

It would obviously be a way different system than the one we have in L4D. It would alter the number of enemies, health, and ammo you fight at certain parts, but that would probably be it.

 

[-Psy-]

Half-Life is all about scripted events so it seems unlikely.

 

[deathcheckedin]

i was thinking about those random sort of encounters you get can be AI directed

 

[the cow says moo]

Half-Life is all about scripted events so it seems unlikely.

I can respect people who think this.

 

[Eejit]

Half-Life is all about scripted events so it seems unlikely.

If you think about it crescendo events are semi-scripted/semi-random. They could go that route.

 

[Apocalypse89]

I could see certain combat-intensive sections working with a (perhaps lighter) Director, but obviously they'd have to turn it off for story scenes, heavily scripted battles, etc.

 

[DerbyDriver1985]

You guys are assuming that if they used the AI Director that it would function exactly the same as it does in L4D.

I imagine that Valve would find a very clever way to implement the AID.

 

[Jintor]

Tell us how they could do it, Driver of Derbys.

A blanket statement like that is ridiculous without some qualifiers.

 

[deathcheckedin]

let me, it is possible that Valve can modify the AI director into action at certain events no matter what play through. What the director will control is what and how many Combine forces are present. Also it can choose when you receive ammo ang health packs

 

[Pesmerga]

The AI "director" is nothing but procedural sequences- you're overestimating what it actually does. It won't be used in Episode 3.

 

[Laivasse]

The HL games have always been about a highly crafted single playthrough. The replayability of HL comes from enjoyment of the gameplay and story, not from shock or surprise over where the enemies are coming from next. Trying to inject that kind of replayability into the last game in a trilogy, without giving proper thought to how it might affect that all important first run-through, is bound to fail. For all the variation you'd add by incorporating the Director, it would kill suspension of disbelief even more for every trooper that spawns in an unintuitive or glitchy place. You also run the risk of giving some people a much more enjoyable experience than others.

There's also the fact that you'd KNOW that the Director is constantly beavering away in the background. An unfortunate consequence of Valve hyping up its inclusion in L4D is that in any subsequent game with the Director, players will be thinking about the Director when they play and wondering how their gameplay will affect its decisions. Immersionfail right there.

For those saying that it won't work the same way it works in L4D, then how will it work?? Obviously it isn't going to spawn hordes of Overwatch or Combine Smokers, but I think if you're going to incorporate the same feature then it's going to at least work pretty similarly.

 

[V-Man339]

Call me crazy, but doing this would force them to lose half the story in the process, and overall Half Life with a director just wouldn't feel like Half Life.

 

[PimpinPenguin]

I'd hate for the director to be implemented cause then i wouldn't be able to take my time and enjoy the scenery. In L4D whenever you slow down to look around the Director send a horde and forces you to keep moving at a quick pace.

 

[DerbyDriver1985]

The AI "director" is nothing but procedural sequences- you're overestimating what it actually does. It won't be used in Episode 3.

I think you're underestimating it.

The AID monitors your ever action, compares it with ever action of your teammate, and decides whether it's time to give you a bit of a break in the action or some health/guns/ammo, or completely butt rape you.

Ever notice that when you play with a group of extremely skilled players, the game seems so much more chaotic and frenzied? But when you play with a bunch of noobs.. usually it's not all that hard?

 

[Sheepo]

You're going to regret that entire post derby. Also, lol AID.

 

[Pesmerga]

I think you're underestimating it.

The AID monitors your ever action, compares it with ever action of your teammate, and decides whether it's time to give you a bit of a break in the action or some health/guns/ammo, or completely butt rape you.

Ever notice that when you play with a group of extremely skilled players, the game seems so much more chaotic and frenzied? But when you play with a bunch of noobs.. usually it's not all that hard?

Look... comparing health loss rates and ammo expenditure rates and whatever kind of statistic you can come up with might be important in a game like L4D, but it's just not important in a game like Episode 3.

Specifically how will Valve use the L4D AI in Episode 3? Could you at least think about it for more than 3 seconds?

 

[Absinthe]

While I can imagine it being used, it would be in a far more limited capacity and perhaps apply only to certain sections. It would not work spanning the full game, obviously. And if it plays such a small role any way, then why bother wasting the time and resources in programming and implementing it into Ep3?

Besides, I like Half-Life's tightly scripted experiences. I'd rather they put their efforts toward something else.

 

[BaconIsGood4You]

How about using the Director to control Alyx's dialogue? Think Episode 1 where Alyx tries to scare you in the underground if you have your light off but much more specific.

 

[Apocalypse89]

I think it could work, to varying degrees, in any area with a high amount of combat and not much else. Combine bases/outposts, zombie-infested areas, etc. Maybe give it a limit so that it would stop spawning enemies in an area after a certain amount is killed, so that the player could take a short break after clearing a room.

It would be switched off in certain areas if there's a story scene, a puzzle, a scenic area, or a battle which is supposed to be more cinematic than challenging.

 

[Lobster]

To be honest there is no such thing as the "Director" as a single game feature, its a snappy name for a wide set of calculations the game makes for various things, Episode 3 doesnt have to declare itself as using "THE DIRECTOR" and suddenly be like L4D, you could use similar lumps of code for timing minor scripted events or controlling how many health kits u spawn in the next crate, but it wouldnt be a copy paste job from L4D to HL2.

I guess they are looking at how dynamic pacing may work in HL2, pacing a singleplayer experience specific to the play of an individual player has its benefits, but breaking the tightly tuned nature of the Half-Life games may take somthing away from them, I trust valve not to do that though.

 

[DerbyDriver1985]

Look... comparing health loss rates and ammo expenditure rates and whatever kind of statistic you can come up with might be important in a game like L4D, but it's just not important in a game like Episode 3.

Specifically how will Valve use the L4D AI in Episode 3? Could you at least think about it for more than 3 seconds?

Man, lose the arrogance, this discussion will go much smoother as soon as you do.

The AID could be implemented as a modified version specifically for EP3.

We don't KNOW what EP3 will be like, for all we know Valve is going to give us their first free roaming area (like they attempted with the finale of EP2), in which case director cued alien attacks could easily be used.

Even if we don't get a large free-roam area (and I hope we don't, I like the linearity of Half-Life)...

Anyone else dislike the zombie closets in Ravenholm? Imagine Ravenholm controlled by the Director. I'm not talking an entire horde of head crab zombies, I'm talking about specifically placed spawning of zombies so the won't LITERALLY spawn behind you the moment you look away.

As far as Combine AI, I don't think the director would be suitable. They aren't random in their behavior, they're soliders and act according to a plan. The only thing the director could do with them is decide which side to attack you from.

The director could also divvy up the goods in supply crates dependent on your current status. It's a very simple task for the director but would add that extra variable to the difficulty of the game.

Maybe Rebel assistants could be placed if the Director was feeling like being nice?

Who knows? The point is that you're extremely close-minded if you think Valve can't implement the director in some way, shape or form.

You're pretty much assuming that it would be plugged into HL2, unchanged to fit the game. I seriously doubt Valve would use the AID without modifying it to make it fit with Half-Life.

 

[Pesmerga]

Any kind of NPC spawning will happen via in-game scripted sequences. Any attempt to proceduralize spawning would take way more effort, and require fvcktons of playtesting and tweaking, even more so than hand crafted design.

- I'm not sure what you're going on about Ravenholm. Zombie closets?
- The L4D Director can't formulate a strategy against the player, nor can it assess which "side" you'll be more vulnerable to. Not only will random spawning break immersion (how the hell did those soldiers spawn in front of that cliff) but it suddenly randomizes how players proceed through a level (something vitally important for Valve to be as predictable as possible).
- I'm not sure how this would work. Give the players less health kits when they're doing well, but give them more when they're not? Or vice versa? Why not just give them health kits regardless of how well they're doing, it's not like you can go above 100. Same goes for ammo.
- Why... why? Way more effort for a tiny change that breaks hand design.
- You're way too open minded to think adding the AI Director from L4D into Episode 3 will enhance the game at all. If they want something done in-game that isn't pre-populated, they'll write a script for it.
- "AID" isn't something you can just delete groups of code from or add some code here and there. It's a giant clump of code and scripting that is specifically tailored for L4D. It can be easily tweaked for L4D because it was designed to be tweaked quickly.

Unless Episode 3 includes endless hordes at some point in the game, the L4D AI has no place in it.