Mapping Team

[5parta]

I'd like to get some experience with the source engine, and I have come up with this.
I'd like to put together a small team, of about 3-4 ppl. as self implied, we would be making maps. I thought that at first, it should consists of Mplayer maps (CSS and HLS: DM) to get everyone working on the same page. Then, we could move on to Splayer maps, working together as part of another mod team, or fing a couple more heads and try releasing our own.

I know my way around hammer, but mostly from what ive learned back on the original hl editing. I do know how to model, texture and convert .mdls for hl2. (ive done it with basic trash can and simple objects before). I also know my way around photoshop and 2d image making. (textures, and bump/spec maps, etc.)

i guess thats about it, if anyone else would be interested, leave ur contacts as well as what/how you would be willing to pitch in.

5parts

 

[Firkat54]

hmm.. I might be interested. I'm mostly a CS:S fy mapper, not too big on making maps pretty, but I'd like to learn it.

You using some kind of IM for contact?

 

[Rwk-Damage]

I think that is a great idea to make a little mapping group. It is also a very good way to get known. Great idea

 

[GonzoBabbleshit]

If you mean creating a map between people it could be quite interesting.

I wouldn't mind trying to create some of the atmospheric effects like the ambient sounds and lighting in a few maps

 

[Ravioli]

sounds very intresting. Just a cople of good guys mapping and helping each other out, not big projects or other stuff like that, just a mapping Clan, with their own website etc and can help each other with maps, ideas, concept drawings etc, maybe combine maps.

But i would like if it was SP first since im little better with SP maps! I also have a Server where i can host sites and map files for the team members to download, even for others when the stuff is released.

Sounds so....jummy

 

[Sprite]

Check your PMs

 

[5parta]

Ok, well this looks promising. Now that I know some ppl are indeed interested, let me detail my idea a bit more.
What my main goal is here, is to gather some material to show around, and get known in the modding community. In my opinion, a great way to further one's skills, learning through experience.
The idea would be to work together on one common project. Starting out with a CSS map seems an easy choice for starters. I dont have any particular idea on a location, or layout for the map. What is most important to me is to create quality content, both in looks and gameplay. Once we know where it is were taking the project, and have some work done, we can "specialize" in different branches, (mapping, modeling, texturing...)
If we can focus on just this 1 project, get it done, then we'll see how it went, and if we want to do more.
Tonight or tomorrow, Ill set up an irc room for those interested to meet up and throw down any ideas, be it on a map, or on the whole mapping team concept, input will always be most welcome.
Ill leave more details about when and were (with irc) when i have time to look into it.
5parts

 

[egoncalo]

I sent you a PM :-p

 

[Firkat54]

Hey, I'm working on some website templates, I could help with that I can get it hosted too :cheers: If you want, I'll send a screenshot of it when its finished.

 

[Ravioli]

one questions, are the mappers going to make ONE map TOGETHER? That will be pretty hard because with people at different levels of skills, and it gets problem because you cant work at the same map at the same time, it will get messed up.

 

[crackhead]

say there were 4 of you. you could each make one map then when you had done as much as you can with it you could send it to another person and he sends his to another and he sends his etc so that all your talent gets included in all the maps.

 

[Ravioli]

sounds like a very good idea to me! But i dont want to end up sending my maps to 11 year old unskilled kids who will probably steal em :/ It has to be serious!

 

[crackhead]

lol well then prehaps you could get all your mappers to show some previous work to verify that they are skilled mappers and serious about the project. im sure you will gets some excellent maps produced. also another way you could do it would be to have the first person to work on each map just lays out simple geometry and gets a layout in place. then the second one starts adding detail etc.

 

[Firkat54]

crackhead's on the right track. what you'd need to do, is make a map(or use a recent one) and post pics of it or the bsp(if you're afraid of theft don't use the vmt )and left them check it out.

What I'm thinking of is, I'm working on a map, and I'm going to.. "pimp it out".. as best I can, and then I'll submit it to a bunch of sites. That way, anyone who's interested has more of a chance to see it.

 

[crackhead]

i think this is a great idea. i tryed to do this ages ago but i dont think even one person reply to the thread. probally because i didnt post any work. also i dont think you should have a very big team. and also you should release the maps as a map pack. that way it will become alot more popular.

 

[Malicious]

I'm interested in joining, there's some of my work on my webpage, contact me if the projects still running.

 

[Sprite]

What's goin on with this?

 

[Crispy]

I'd say one of the best ways to learn and gain experience is just to show off your WIPs and crit eachother as part of an established mapping community. You don't neccessarily have to have a website for this, just get an IRC channel and make a thread here that you keep updated (maybe have the threadstarter include links to everyone's current and completed maps.

If you all want to get together and do this, start with something simple - a small mapping contest. Give yourselves a subject, a sort of prompt to get your creative juices flowing, and then give yourselves a deadline. Then see how it goes. There's an element of competition which should spur you on, the task won't be too great (say a room, or map location), and all the while you'll be able to take tips from eachother on content and style. Naturally there will be those who are better at lighting, texture choice and placement, brushwork style and brushwork optimisation, 2D layout, 3D layout (layout taken to the next level of detail), and so on.

---

I'll start you off (feel free to use/ignore this prompt):

CS:S map location for a bombsite or hostage area. There should be 4 entrances (2 per team), with no more than 2 per side (e.g. there can be up to two entrances from the north). These entrances should, where possible, not look directly onto eachother, but have a 'first stage of cover' protecting them from incoming fire (but, crucially, not grenades). I would advise against open-closing doors, but because they can be used to nerf a more advantageous entry point, I will set the limit at one.

Most of this area should be open, with objects inside to block off sight, provide cover and create angles of fire. An example of this style could be the warehouse in cs_assault or the bombsites in de_train.

The playing field should have two major tiers, such as first floor and ground floor. This does not neccessarily mean high ground on one side and low ground on the other, but could mean including a second storey window, for example, as an entry point. However, static objects within the playing field should also provide slight height variation, to allow for more angles of fire. Bear in mind the advantages/disadvantages of height variation, and balance the surrounding terrain accordingly.

If designing a bombsite:
Ensure that the bomb, in most instances, will be viewable from a medium distance. This should not be too short and not too far, for either way to the extreme will over/underpower the CTs when they have to check the bombsites for the planted bomb. Too short a viewable distance will mean too much time wasted, too long a viewable distance will mean the bombsite can be cheacked without getting close enough to comprimise your position. (it is very possible that you may want to elaborate on this design and incorporate it into a map at a later stage, and it is important to understand, and get in the habit of implementing, crucial design techniques)

Its immediate surroundings should be open enough to restrict planting the bomb in a position unviewable from 180+/360 degrees of the nearby area. An example of this would be de_train, where the bombs can be placed out of sight from one side, but moving to the other side will reveal their location.

If designing a hostage holding zone:
Ensure the hostages cannot be shot from distance. They should be in a semi-enclosed area. This means enclosed enough to provide cover for a rescuing CT, but open enough for a Terrorist to check to see if the hostages are still there from a short distance.

Cover:
Earlier I mentioned points of cover (which I will hereby refer to as 'bunkers'). The primary bunker would be the first natural point upon entering an area that you would be forced to move up to if you were under heavy fire or scrutiny. For instance, the first set of crates (one on top of the other) on the left when entering the underpass from the Terrorist side in de_dust could be considered a primary bunker.

If there is only one primary bunkers, it should usually accommodate at least 2 people. This is to allow one to provide covering fire while the second moves up to a secondary bunker. (In the previous example there is another primary bunker on the right side of the ramp, just before the tunnel narrows. This is accessible without being shot/seen so can be considered a primary bunker, or first point of cover. From here covering fire can be laid down/smokes or flashes used to allow team mate(s) to move up)

From the primary bunker there should be multiple secondary bunkers to move up to. This is to allow the attacking team more options when assaulting and to make the defending team take up a solid defensive line/network. The secondary bunkers should be relatively near the objective (bombsite/hostage holding area), the proximity determining the amount of cover. For instance, if the secondary bunker was close enough to see the hostages you might provide slight cover. If it were the outside wall of a hostage room, the end of the wall should lead out onto a campable position, because the CT has got close enough to start leading the hostages away and should have this power over the objective comprimised in some way.

Remember always that more cover = less visibility, but both are advantageous. More visibility will improve your potential assessment of the enemy's positioning, but provide less cover for you and also risk giving your own position away. Less visibility means the enemy has less chance of seeing where you are, and vice versa; but you have more cover if you have been seen.

I'm sure there are major elements I've skipped over, or missed out, (or even got wrong?), but hopefully you can all get mapping on that one

To sum up:
- A bombsite or hostage holding area
- 4 entrances
- Exactly 2 entrances per team (CT/Terrorist)
- Up to 2 per geographical side (north/south/east/west)
- A maximum of one open-closing door (optional)
- At least two tiers (ground floor/first floor)
- Check viewable distance of bomb/hostages
- Provide primary bunkers
- Provide secondary bunkers (tailoring them to their location)

 

[crackhead]

that is some good mapping theory maybe you should write something on a wiki.

 

[Crispy]

It's mainly based on paintball "supair" tournaments which, in turn, I suppose might be based on something military. The simplicity of the supair field layout is the secret to its high-adrenaline gameplay. CS is a bit more complex because, whereas supair is just capture the flag (with no respawns), the CS game modes alter the gameplay significantly. Mapping should be designed to achieve certain gameplay goals. My attitude to mapping is that the map elements fall around the (intended) gameplay, not the other way round - cause and effect. You want a certain type of gameplay -cause, so you map accordingly. Every element of your map goes towards achieving this goal -effect. Mapping theory aims to deal with understanding these effects that the constituents of a map have on gameplay in order to manipulate it to the benefit of the player(s).

As far as writing a Wiki, I have written some guidelines for mapping in NS (How to achieve balance for more competitive gamneplay; 70% complete). I've always wanted to do some for CS, as I think it is easier to map for and the mapping theory would be easier to understand.

What I've written is definitely not the rule, though. 4 entrances is very rare in CS bombsites. I just wanted to see whether it worked. If you were doing this as part of a larger map one, or maybe two of the entrances would have to lead off to the other bombsite.

I suppose the best layout would be one entrance on each side. North leads to Terror spawn, South to CT spawn. East to other bombsite (or other hozzie location). West would be equally accessible by CT and T, a route leading from both spawns would lead to a corridor running north-south. The CTs and Ts would meet in the middle of that corridor at exactly the same time, and in the middle would be the entrance off to the west leading into the bombsite.

Obviously the whole of this bombsite could be mirrored (north for south, west for east) as it doesn't matter until you've added in the 'bunkers'.

---

This was just an example for getting some CS mapping experience, but I do think that by starting with the objective area the rest of the map will be much easier to make. The reasons for suggesting to make a bombsite/hostage location first are twofold:

- Balancing the objective, and:
- Maintaining that equilibrium as you add the rest of the map.

They are the most important locations in any CS map, and getting the balance right here will set the standard for the rest of your map. When you test the balance you can have the Ts starting from an adjoining corridor and the CTs starting from an adjoining corridor on the other side (both outside of the bombsite. In this way you have more control over how much time it takes them to reach key bunkers in the area. You also have much more control over testing your bunkers for vulnerabilities, and you can slightly alter their
- positioning (where they are in relation to other bunkers, entrances and objectives)
- size (degree of cover, for how many people?)
- cover type (degradable? will it shield you from sight and weapons fire, or grenades, even?).

You can test this with bots by placing the spawn points in different locations around the area (camping the objective, covering an entrance).

Once the bombsite or hozzie holding zone is balanced, you can begin to add to the rest of the map, starting from the centre out. I would recommend adding the next objective location second, but following this you can be very precise without taking a lot of time over it. Once the objective 'rooms' are down, you can add the layout corridor by corridor. With each new addition you can test the time it takes from the beginning of the new corridor to reach the entrances of the objective, thus maintaining that balance you more-or-less had perfected in the objective location.