Switzerland bans minarets

[The Monkey]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minaret_controversy_in_Switzerland

I wonder how many churches there are in Switzerland :dozey:

 

[No Limit]

So they didn't ban all churches? That's fair.

 

[jet_porkins]

So to get this right: they banned poles that stick out of the ground around mosques, but not the mosques themselves?

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Switzerland used to be cool.
Perhaps they're worried about ice giants impaling themselves though.

 

[<RJMC>]

what if they put a cross on it???

 

[lefty]

drop the bombs between the minarets down the casbah way.

 

[swan_song1973]

well switzerland just lost points in my book.

 

[CptStern]

So to get this right: they banned poles that stick out of the ground around mosques, but not the mosques themselves?

most mosques are in existing buildings. this plan specifically targets new mosques, not mosques in general. this was initiated by a right wing group as a knee jerk reaction to the possibility that muslim might want to instate sharia law. the government of switzerland is against this and it will most likely be repealed in a court challenge

 

[VictimOfScience]

Blatant fear-mongering. Hopefully this dies quickly.

 

[13LACKBISHOP]

Minarets are cool.

Check out these minarets.

Its a shame. Bad move by the swiss.

 

[Acepilotf14]

Altair won't be able to synchronize!

 

[Apocalypse89]

*minarets*

I'm a Gulf Arab, and even I'll admit that our minarets don't have shit on the Turks.

Also, Malaysian modern art mosque:

I say Swiss Muslims should troll their country by building a technically minaretless mosque in the "gigantic drab concrete building" style, like the Indonesians:

 

[Warped]

is the Minaret hollow or is it full of concrete??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAL1J9vwT-U&feature=sub

 

[Blackthorn]

Altair won't be able to synchronize!

Templar plot.

 

[The Monkey]

drop the bombs between the minarets down the casbah way.

By order of the prophet we ban that boogie sound, degenerate the faithful with that crazy Casbah sound.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Totally thinking AC too; though with modern warfare aka sniper positions.

 

[unozero]

Victory for western white European culture.

 

[Eejit]

How could they object to such beautiful structures?

Oh, wait

Spoiler

most mosques are in existing buildings. this plan specifically targets new mosques, not mosques in general. this was initiated by a right wing group as a knee jerk reaction to the possibility that muslim might want to instate sharia law. the government of switzerland is against this and it will most likely be repealed in a court challenge

Since when can a court challenge repeal an amendment to a consitution based on a referendum?
This change is a result of direct democracy, you may not like it but if it comes down to 'freedom of religion' (and minarets aren't necessary for that) vs self-determination and democratic process in the most democratic state in the world I know who I'll be rooting for.

 

[The Monkey]

"The most democratic state in the world" is a bold statement. In theory, maybe, but they have some of the lowest turnouts in Europe, both in the elections and in the referendums. And results like this in ways lead me to think that John Stuart Mill was right in saying that people ought to have some degree of education and knowledge before being allowed to vote.

 

[15357]

"The most democratic state in the world" is a bold statement. In theory, maybe, but they have some of the lowest turnouts in Europe, both in the elections and in the referendums. And results like this in ways lead me to think that John Stuart Mill was right in saying that people ought to have some degree of education and knowledge before being allowed to vote.

What is democracy? If one is content enough with the status quo that he doesn't exercise the privileage of voting, what does that say for a nation? If a people willingly vote themselves into utter despair and despotism, is that also democracy?

Also, who will educate the uneducated? What is meant by education? If people are taught to vote for one option over another, will that also be education? For example, when I talk about education in terms of politics, I'm thinking of political indoctrination.


Don't take this the wrong way, I know what you mean. But the problem of democracy lies in the fact that everyone thinks different.

 

[Maestro]

Switzerland has socialized education, right?

In which case if you don't have a college-level education it's your own ****ing fault.

"Lack of education" my ass, it's a lack of interest.

The Swiss do, however, pretty much give away this for free to all adult citizens in their military. It's not a semiauto, either. It's pure, undiluted, SIG Sauer awesomesauce.

 

[Raziaar]

SIG 552, bitch!

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

I'm glad the thread didn't get this far without a Rock the Casbah reference.

 

[xdrive]

So they didn't ban all churches? That's fair.

They didn't ban mosques either? lol you fail.

 

[The Monkey]

They didn't ban mosques either? lol you fail.

But they didn't ban church towers, which would be the equivalence of minarets.

What is democracy? If one is content enough with the status quo that he doesn't exercise the privileage of voting, what does that say for a nation? If a people willingly vote themselves into utter despair and despotism, is that also democracy?

Also, who will educate the uneducated? What is meant by education? If people are taught to vote for one option over another, will that also be education? For example, when I talk about education in terms of politics, I'm thinking of political indoctrination.


Don't take this the wrong way, I know what you mean. But the problem of democracy lies in the fact that everyone thinks different.

I'm not talking about instructing people, I'm talking about advancing the people's intellectual abilities, so that creative deliberation can take place in all sectors of society, instead of just at the top levels. Until this has been achieved, the population can very easily be deceived by populists and can make uninformed and drastic decisions. BTW, I'm not saying that I'm not part of this uneducated majority.

 

[diluted]

Good for the Swiss. I wonder why the people against this feel that the Swiss don't have the right to preserve their own culture and identity. Who says they have to appease anyone?

 

[Shakermaker]

I wonder why the people against this feel that the Swiss don't have the right to preserve their own culture and identity. Who says they have to appease anyone?

What surprises me in this whole discussion is the minority complex people seem to have about their culture. I personally am proud of my liberal European heritage. My idea of European culture is a society where people can say what they want to say and believe what they want to believe. As long as a group doesn't interfere with society in general and abides by its laws, it should be able to do what it pleases. I feel that Western culture will easily survive the 'tsunami of Muslims' as some daft countryman of mine put it, because it is tolerant. Polarizing the situation by allowing churches to have towers, but banning minarets for mosques only makes matters worse. Then again, because of the geography the Swiss have always had a valley mentality, where everything on the other side of the mountain is scary.

 

[Planetary]

Easy fix to the issue that will make everyone happy:

Let the Muslims build minarets, but also let churches or synagogues be built in Saudi Arabia.
Who'd have a problem with that?

 

[Apocalypse89]

Churches and synagogues are already built in several Muslim countries(why is it always just Saudi Arabia that's mentioned?), and I like how you imply that Switzerland should use an oppressive theocracy as the standard which its laws should follow.

 

[Shyam]

Churches and synagogues are already built in several Muslim countries(why is it always just Saudi Arabia that's mentioned?), and I like how you imply that Switzerland should use an oppressive theocracy as the standard which its laws should follow.

Because they like to mention the country that have extreme Islamic laws as representative of all the Islamic countries in the world.

 

[Robbo]

I'm not talking about instructing people, I'm talking about advancing the people's intellectual abilities, so that creative deliberation can take place in all sectors of society, instead of just at the top levels. Until this has been achieved, the population can very easily be deceived by populists and can make uninformed and drastic decisions. BTW, I'm not saying that I'm not part of this uneducated majority.

I agree that people need to be educated only because the process of education teaches you to critically analyse information and make up your own opinion. Many people have never tried this and thus tend to just accept what they are told. I bet most of the people who voted for this never took the time to look into Minarets further to find out their significance in muslim culture, they just believed what they were told.

 

[Krynn72]

Easy fix to the issue that will make everyone happy:

Let the Muslims build minarets, but also let churches or synagogues be built in Saudi Arabia.
Who'd have a problem with that?

Hmm... let me think...

 

[Eejit]

Easy fix to the issue that will make everyone happy:

Let the Muslims build minarets, but also let churches or synagogues be built in Saudi Arabia.
Who'd have a problem with that?

Minarets are not equivalent to churches, they're equivalent to church steeples. Nothing more than a traditional piece of architecture with no real religious requirement for it to be present.

 

[barbarbarbarbar]

Although my opinion on anything religious-related is "religion sucks , atheism ftw" , this problem is entirely political.I think that the Swiss are brainwashed into thinking that Muslims are out to get Europe.The result of the poll has undoubtedly changed the way I look at Switzerland and Western Civilization in general.Although the Islamic religion might appear to be strange and unorthodox to modern day Christians,if religion is here to stay we will just have to learn to be tolerable to other people in spite of the humongous differences.