Battle on Teaching Evolution Sharpens

[Apos]

I believe in God, and that he created everything with a purpose. If we are here by complete chance then there is nothing to live for.

These statements don't follow from each other. It's like saying "If Brad Pitt doesn't fall in love with me, then there is nothing to live for!"

And regardless, plenty of scientists believe that God exists, and God has purposes for us, without believing that God had to micromanage all existence, or mind control your parents to meet so they would have you.

When we die, it's over, nothing that happens here on earth will matter. There are no rules, there is no higher power. In the end we don't answer to anyone. There is nothing bigger than man. That leaves us with every man for himself. Now that is a scarry world to live in!

Whether or not that is true...

a) has nothing to do with evolution is true or not
b) has nothing to do with whether IT is true or not

God created everything with a purpose. To say He used evolution to create the world insinuates he created this place then walked away for billions of years before the reason he created this place (man) showed up.

Perhaps that is how God allowed there to be free will in the universe: by NOT micromanaging every aspect of your existence, but rather by setting up the laws of nature so that intelligent soulful beings could be expected to come to exist one day, and he would be able to reveal himself to them and commune with them without having to determine their existence.

 

[PickledGecko]

If you put all the parts of a clock into a dryer and let it run for 1,000,000,000 years do you think you will get a clock?

It takes just as much, or even more, 'faith' to believe in evolution as it does to believe in creation.

I think thats the crux of the problem. Creationists believe that God created man for a purpose, whereas evolution shows that all life, humans included, evolved because they "fitted" a certain niche in the environment. Religious people just can't let go of the fact that they want to be special.

All minkind evolved from single cell organisms? How is that more possible than my clock in the dryer comparison?

You're looking at the problem "top down", you see the world around you and think it must be this way, that the entire history of the Universe was designed to create this world as it is today. Of course that would take some kind of omnipotent being or guiding intellegence.

The difference between you and me is, I don't believe I am all that special. I see history as "bottom up". Humans didn't thrive because I was planned to be born thousands of years later, they just happened to be the best suited for their environment.

I believe in God, and that he created everything with a purpose. If we are here by complete chance then there is nothing to live for. When we die, it's over, nothing that happens here on earth will matter. There are no rules, there is no higher power. In the end we don't answer to anyone. There is nothing bigger than man. That leaves us with every man for himself. Now that is a scarry world to live in!

I was raised to belive in God, I even went to Sunday School untill I was about 10. When I was a young child I believed in God, if my parents said something I believed it because, as a child something is either true or false, truth or lies, and I did not believe that my parents would lie. As I got older it became clear to me that my parents did not know that God existed, they mearly had faith. And that was when I realised that my doubts were not unfounded, that nobody knew anything, you either had faith or you didn't, and I didn't. For the most part of my childhood and teenage years I was an athiest, I didn't make a big thing about it and still went to Sunday School. Now, I would say I'm still about 90% athiest but 10% agnostic. I still don't "feel" like there is a God but don't discount it as a possiblility.

Anyway, to the point of why I quoted you. I was watching a religious program on TV a while back and there was a Rabbi, a Vicar (it was an English show, so probably C of E) and (I think) an Imam. They all said that if there was no religion there would be anarchy and no morals, etc etc. I find your and their comments quite offensive. I may not follow their idea of morality when it comes to things like masturbation, sex out of wedlock, homosexuality, etc, but I don't believe anyone has the right to harm others. I don't need human or divine law to stop me from murdering anyone. I find the idea of hurting another human being abhorrent.

Are you honestly telling me, that the only thing stopping you going on a killing/raping rampage is the threat of Hell?

God created everything with a purpose. To say He used evolution to create the world insinuates he created this place then walked away for billions of years before the reason he created this place (man) showed up.

The Bible says God created the Universe. The Universe exists as both space and time. Whether you dismiss sciences assertion that both space and time are part of the same substance "spacetime" or not, you have to agree that God created, by your own words, time. Therefore God exists outside of time's influence.

Are you also aware that the Hebrew word for "day" is also interchangable with the phrase "period of time"? Just some food for thought.

 

[Pericolos0]

i felt like posting this, because it made me laugh when i picked up this issue of national geographic

 

[Absinthe]

Are you honestly telling me, that the only thing stopping you going on a killing/raping rampage is the threat of Hell?

That's a question I'd have to ask people more often.

I don't see how these people can claim to be moral or enlightened when the only thing dictating their behavior is the threat of force.

IRT Pericolos0

Yeah, I enjoyed that issue way too much. I saw the cover and was thinking to myself "WTF..." but was pleasantly surprised when I opened it up.

I think that people who refuse to accept what Darwin teaches either don't understand it or are deluding themselves. Prophet, your clock analogy for evolution is an invalid one. Evolution is not the random jumbling about of genes.

 

[Calanen]

OK, I believe in creation. I have some questions, since I have not studied evolution in depth and it sounds so rediculous.

1. The missing link. Where is it? Have they found it yet? I find it interesting that we have bones from dinasours that are millions of years old, that died out long before man came along and yet we don't have the missing link.

2. All minkind evolved from single cell organisms? How is that more possible than my clock in the dryer comparison?

Don't forget that a lot more people believe in creation than in evolution.

1. The missing link is that it is likely that all of the different forms of species of human or humanoids intermixed rather than just suddenly turned into moden humans. The missing link is really a furphy - because change and evolution is so gradual. You are not going to have a DVD showing what happened that you can watch. It happened over millions of years.

But the silliest thing that creationists say is that the earth is about 5000 years old (they know the exact number, what it is i am not sure). That is just rubbish on so many levels.

2. Clock in the dryer? I did not read that far back in the thread. But of course we evolved from single cell organisms. It just did take a very long time. Its not like watching grass grow with a timelapse camera. Just because something happens slowly, does not mean that it did not happen. As for the science behind it all, you can find it all on the web if you look.

As for more people believing in creationism - wtf? Do you mean more people in the USA? Maybe - but even that is perhaps stretching. The majority of people in the world do not believe in fundamentalist christian creationism. There are places in the world outside of the USA. Buy an atlas and check. I can tell you that Indians and the Chinese do not believe in fundamentalist creationism. So there goes your numbers argument. But lets say that everyone in the world believes this? Does not mean that it is correct. The majority can be wrong. Very wrong. Hitler was an elected politician remember?

 

[Calanen]

God created everything with a purpose. To say He used evolution to create the world insinuates he created this place then walked away for billions of years before the reason he created this place (man) showed up.

just for the record, I don't say god did anything. I say it just happened.

 

[theotherguy]

that applet is insane

you think that one is cool, check out this one!

http://www.ventrella.com/GenePool/gene_pool.html