(Design) Permanent Magnet Motor.

[clarky003]

Perpetual motion anyone,, I never cared for my science teacher's limited teaching's ;( , all old nothing new, Or should I say all old thinking , because theres plenty more around for us to discover, and believe what you will, but many a person in history has made what is described by science as a perpetual motion machine, whereas aslong as the components running it are kept well, it goes on forever in a day, unlike fossil fuel powered generators.

So here's a new concept, its actually my dads , it most definately is a design of tweaking, but he finally decided he was going to take his idea seriously and give it a go, so I built up a basic 3D model to show function.

It's based on the simplist of principals, Neodynium, Angled magents, in discs. One stationary one, another rotating, but the rotating disc depends on the stationary, etc,

Ive annotated take a look for yourself . muhah!,> starts work on his Zero point energy converter

as for speed.. putting it on a low friction Oil bearing would definately help speed it up,, but Neodynium gives one hell of a repulsive push anyway, can imagine a well refined configuration would give you, umm 24,000 rpm, could work

Now, go start kicking science teacher's in the nuts .

 

[Triggerhappy41]

has this been built in real life yet?

 

[clarky003]

its just a concept and a design so far.

 

[Neutrino]

I like the model. Good work with that.

But the design won't work.

I think I'll refrain from kicking any science teacher's nuts until the second law of thermocynamics is broken.

 

[clarky003]

I like the model. Good work with that.

But the design won't work.

I think I'll refrain from kicking any science teacher's nuts until the second law of thermocynamics is broken.

The second law of thermodynamics is flawed when you take into account the seeming perpetual motion that an electron intrinsically has, so It already has been broken.

enlighten me dude, why wont it work. :E

 

[The Dark Elf]

Thats a very simplified version

The design will work, it wont generate much electricity though.

The more powerful varient has already been patented, the usual reasons as to why its not being used though. Clean free energy isn't very profitable for the fossil fuel giants.

 

[clarky003]

Thats a very simplified version

The design will work, it wont generate much electricity though.

The more powerful varient has already been patented, the usual reasons as to why its not being used though. Clean free energy isn't very profitable for the fossil fuel giants.

yeh < I dont believe in that though, Im more of an idealist, I say, if it can be done , do it, dont drag a whole races future progression down into slow development for a few hundred peoples major benifits.

 

[The Dark Elf]

yeh < I dont believe in that though, Im more of an idealist, I say, if it can be done , do it, dont drag a whole races future progression down into slow development for a few hundred peoples major benifits.

What is it they say. "5% of the population controls the other 95%"

And such a device would have to be hugely powerful to provide even a third of the energy required, you'd need to build thousands of them, and then there's all that nuclear waste to put somewhere, and yeah, so many ifs buts and whys. Same goes for the electric car, its a good idea but there's so much in its way.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Well, it would be perpetual if it weren't for that damn friction. Damn you friction!!!

Still, if you could build one big enough, you could save hundreds on your power bills!

 

[The Dark Elf]

Well, it would be perpetual if it weren't for that damn friction. Damn you friction!!!

Still, if you could build one big enough, you could save hundreds on your power bills!

The trick is mostly in the gears and the motor. Like the gears on a mountain bike. Just on a massive and way more technical scale.

 

[clarky003]

What is it they say. "5% of the population controls the other 95%"

And such a device would have to be hugely powerful to provide even a third of the energy required, you'd need to build thousands of them, and then there's all that nuclear waste to put somewhere, and yeah, so many ifs buts and whys. Same goes for the electric car, its a good idea but there's so much in its way.

nuclear waste from magnets..?

okie, lol

get ready for some enlightenment,

there are practical theories for using Zero point energy,

(no im not a loon)

First of all , lets understand the Zero point Vaccum a little better than perhaps modern superficial Science allows.

It only makes sense to start with looking at world around you, every surface, every photon refracted back into your eyes, bouncing off the atoms that make up your cells that make up your retina.

everything we view, is constantly in perception constantly manifesting itself , like the refresh rate on you monitor. Obviously energy cant be destroyed, it has to be getting its energy from somewhere, that brings us to the term , Creative Vaccum. a sub spacial matrix, that we consist of yet do not percieve as the physical being that we are designed to be.

So Science all of a sudden becomes more mystical, because this state of duality is more of a roots of the existence of everthing , or the roots of the illusion being infact a reality, a reality where everything is one, rather than percieved as seperate. a truely unsuperficial mind would understand it in many deeper ways.

so you and all of us, are essentially all one, we are just viewing a 'puppet show' if you will, the energy dance in the vaccum

An Electron is manifested through the Vaccum in is what is desribed as a bubble rolling off a flat endless surface., and its energetic life of a wobbling orbit around an atom is infinately powered by the Vaccum for the rest of its realmly existence, why or what triggers these vaccum distortions is even deeper into the question.

But it is very much a practical thought that if you can give that electron enough extra energy to take a higher orbit, the differential between natural accuring vaccum state orbit and new orbit releases a discharge of energy, in the form of a photon. almost like opening a tap, except this tap doesnt run out of water.

the missing links in electrogravetics and the relationship between gravity and magnetism are much clearer when taking the Vaccum into account, its just ashame that alot of scientist neglect this apparency for more superficial means, because of the lack of conncetion between the Vaccum and our human senses, but as it seems its all Ironic, because that is all part of Zero point manifestation in the first place.

edit: magnets dont stop repelling and moving the disc round even with friction, its just a matter of reducing it as much as you can to get faster rotation.

 

[The Dark Elf]

Re-read what I said clarky

You do know there are nuclear powerstations in operation right? Ok well with that in mind.. Where do you suppose they'd put the nuclear waste from those while they were decomissioning them? You can't just make it all go away just like that. you gotta put it somewhere. See?

I look forward to your apology :E

 

[clarky003]

oh right, sorry I guess i didnt read it properly , im a skim reader, lol,

to answer your question I suppose they could use new technology to develop ways in the future, im sure its possible

 

[Sprafa]

It won't work Clarky. Besides, if it does, you'll be shot by a 47 lookalike.

The only perpetual energy source will be the black hole power stations. cba to explain it now.

 

[The Dark Elf]

oh right, sorry I guess i didnt read it properly , im a skim reader, lol,

to answer your question I suppose they could use new technology to develop ways in the future, im sure its possible

There would be just too much to get rid of. It's a problem already. It's like painting yourself into a corner of a room.

There were plans to simply shoot it off into space, but considering NASA's track record for blowing things up. Can you imagine the environmental damage caused by a rocket full of nuclear waste exploding in the upper atmosphere.

Besides its a mute point.. There's nothing stopping you from building your own to power your own house. Except maybe planning permission, but anything more than that, and those companies will ensure you don't manage it. Thats why the patent to the larger and workable versions (there's a few, that all work differently, heck even I own one) will never truly see the light of day, not for many many years, at least.

 

[clarky003]

god this worlds screwed up, I see what they mean by saying where digging ourselves a hole, well not really all of us,, just the 5% ruining everyones lives at their costs.

all this knowledge weve obtained, we already most likely have figured out the why behind the electron in a deeper form, surely it cant end like this.

I want to start communities of abundance, and teach people new findings, let everyone have a chance at living a free life. build the world better for future generations.

or maybe aliens will come along and help us .

we all try to justify our existance , in forms of love, and creation, aggression, and greed. why not fill that gap of confusion, or atleast start in a separte secluded society, and begin exploring the manifestation that is the Universe

 

[Sprafa]

god this worlds screwed up, I see what they mean by saying where digging ourselves a hole, well not really all of us,, just the 5% ruining everyones lives at their costs.

all this knowledge weve obtained, we already most likely have figured out the why behind the electron in a deeper form, surely it cant end like this.

I want to start communities of abundance, and teach people new findings, let everyone have a chance at living a free life. build the world better for future generations.

or maybe aliens will come along and help us .

you're dreaming clarky..

Just help us get Fusion power quickly and you'll have done a great thing for mankind.

 

[clarky003]

yeh, I am a dreamer, cant denie that, I wake up every day, and ask myself why .. lol

and Fusion is good, but that would be used for propulsion if anything, Zero point energy exists, and that's the way forward. the ladder out of the ditch.

 

[Sprafa]

yeh, I am a dreamer, cant denie that, I wake up every day, and ask myself why .. lol

and Fusion is good, but that would be used for propulsion if anything, Zero point energy exists, and that's the way forward. the ladder out of the ditch.

Zero point energy is madness. We have to aim to where we can hit, Fusion. it's clean and abundant, we don't have to try and get energy out of nothing!

 

[The Dark Elf]

When Worlds collide is a good film

Thats how the human race should be saved, only change those on the rocket ship to me and all the really cute women in the world. I'll send ya'll a postcard from the new world populated only by me and millions of naked cute women.

 

[clarky003]

Zero point energy is madness. We have to aim to where we can hit, Fusion. it's clean and abundant, we don't have to try and get energy out of nothing!

whatever you say Sprafa :E

:O whatever you say Fen :farmer:

 

[Sprafa]

When Worlds collide is a good film

Thats how the human race should be saved, only change those on the rocket ship to me and all the really cute women in the world. I'll send ya'll a postcard from the new world populated only by me and millions of naked cute women.

You're 27 years old, it's not like you've watched it in the movie teather.....

 

[The Dark Elf]

You're 27 years old, it's not like you've watched it in the movie teather.....

Where did I say I'd seen it in a theater?

 

[Sprafa]

Where did I say I'd seen it in a theater?

You didn't, but you made it sound like it was a marking movei to your life or something :burp:


Ahh, Joe Black is getting in love.... (I'm watching Meet Joe Black).

 

[Neutrino]

enlighten me dude, why wont it work. :E

Now don't get me wrong. I think it's a cool idea to study perpetual motion. In fact MIT even has a contest where students have to come up with ideas for a perpetual motion device.

Also there is the fact that the second law of thermodynamics is not actually provable, though it is probably the most tested and examined scientific law on the planet yet has never been broken. But it's always remotely possible that it will be so there's no reason not to keep testing it.

Just wanted to say that so you understand I'm not trying to be negative just for the sake of being negative.

That said, I absolutely gurantee that the device will not stay in motion and produce any work at the same time. In fact it shouldn't even be able to move at all.

I'm sure it will be fun for you to build though. I expect video if you do of course.

I can demonstrate with an illustration. You see you left quite a few force vectors out of your model.

Here's an illustration that shows the interaction of the magnetic fields a bit better too:

Basically what I'm saying is that the angle doesn't actually do anything. You can have any angle you want including just putting them perfectly parallel to eachother and you would achieve the same effect. It wouldn't move.

 

[clarky003]

Basically what I'm saying is that the angle doesn't actually do anything. You can have any angle you want including just putting them perfectly parallel to eachother and you would achieve the same effect. It wouldn't move.

ah , thats assuming you dont use a magnetic mask or pocket for the parts of the magnet that lie inside the disc,

im sure if it only then exposes the tip end of the field, the N - N repulsing force is the only thing that interacts, whereas the rest of the field is inhibited.

 

[Ames]

ah, thats assuming you dont use a magnetic mask or pocket for the parts of the magnet that lie inside the disc,

im sure if it only then exposes the tip end of the field, the N - N repulsing force is the only thing that interacts, whereas the rest of the field is inhibited.

I searched for magnetic masks on Google to see if there was such a thing and I found a magnetic car bra. ;(

 

[clarky003]

theres no such thing , persay as a 'magnetic mask', im talking about materials that inhibit a magnetic field.

im pretty sure you can selectively inhibit certain areas of a magnet using barrier material's like Nylon aswell.

 

[The Dark Elf]

I looked again and Neutrino is right, it wouldn't work. Atleast that model of it wouldn't.

The angle of the magnets aren't great enough and he's right it would cancel itself out. Fix those and it'll work though.

 

[clarky003]

it would need some experimenting but yeh Neutrino is right, the angle needs to be almost at a parrallel. if thats the case then maybe converting the push at that angle into efficient circular momentum would require more magnets, with a slightly weaker field or perhaps not . Its a practical thing really,

experiment with the configuration etc, and maybe it would be possible on a certain set up. a bit of ingenuity me thinks

 

[The Dark Elf]

Out of interest, whats the point of this. You can't sell it, because others own the patents, you can't build one powerful enough to be much use. You'll never stand a chance against the fuel companies to get them to take you seriously.

Is it for fun right?


Btw still waiting for a reply on that thing you asked in my sketch thread

 

[clarky003]

firstly I'll check that,

and yeh, for fun, I wanna see if I can get something going, even other peoples so called 'free energy devices' if nessersary.

Knowledge is very useful in terms on energy, every human stems off of it, unquestionably the most important thing, to be honest id like to get something making enough energy to power my house, just incase things get ugly when im 30, or 40

but its useful anyway.

and if any one ever happens to questions or ridicule you for dreaming, slap this in their face Fenric. >

http://www.searleffect.com/free/dreamers/dreamers.html

 

[Triggerhappy41]

an assassin to kill the oil bigwigs is the only way :sniper:

thats sad that its that way, but they're still screwed. Around 2050 oil will be very scarce, we HAVE to move on and we will.

I have a quick question about hydrogen fuel.

As we all know, electricity can be used to seperate H and O2 ou of water, but isthat energy required to seperate with electricity the same amount as the energy produced as the H and O2 combust? Im thinking yes because of the law of conservation of evergy, but these are two different types of energy (heat and electricity) so i wasnt sure.

 

[Neutrino]

I looked again and Neutrino is right, it wouldn't work. Atleast that model of it wouldn't.

The angle of the magnets aren't great enough and he's right it would cancel itself out. Fix those and it'll work though.

it would need some experimenting but yeh Neutrino is right, the angle needs to be almost at a parrallel. if thats the case then maybe converting the push at that angle into efficient circular momentum would require more magnets, with a slightly weaker field or perhaps not . Its a practical thing really,

experiment with the configuration etc, and maybe it would be possible on a certain set up. a bit of ingenuity me thinks

I don't think you quite understood what I was trying to say. I'm saying that the basic idea itself, that you can make a wheel powered soley by perment magnets actually produce work is not possible at all. I'm saying it doesn't matter if you increase the angle, decrease the angel, make the magnets parallel, or make them perpendicular. Nothing will make it work. You can never get it to produce work. It doesn't work that way with permanent magnets.

About a shield. I've never heard of any material that can act as a shield which can block a magnetic field. I'm pretty sure there isn't anything that would work like you would want. However, even if such a shiled existed it still wouldn't stop the fact that the north poles of the magnets repel each other in both directions, not just one direction.

So what I'm saying is that it is impossible to create a perpetual motion machine using only permanent magnets. Permanent magnets are not a source of energy, and thus cannot produce work by themselves.

 

[Neutrino]

Alright, sorry for the double post, but my edit time expired and I just found something to add.

I realized that I was somewhat in error about the magnetic shielding in my above post. I said that it wouldn't stop the north poles from repelling eachother from both directions. But I realized that if you found a material that blocked all the magnetic field and only allowed the magnetic force to affect things that were in line of sight then yes it only repel in one direction. Just wanted to clear that up.

But having said that, it still wouldn't work. Any material or field which acted as a shield would itself be affected by affected by the magnetic force.

Here's a quote to explain what I mean:

There is no known material that blocks magnetic fields without itself being attracted to the magnetic force. Magnetic fields can only be redirected, not created or removed. To do this, high-permeability shielding alloys are used. The magnetic field lines are strongly attracted into the shielding material.

http://www.magnetic-shield.com/faq/faq.html

So it wouldn't actually achieve anything. If the shield blocks a magnetic force it will be repeled or attracted itself.

These types of machines using magnets have been tried countless times before. The reason they aren't around isn't due to any cover up or suppression, it's due to the fact that they cannot be made to produce work.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Im laymans terms...


There ain't no such thing as a free lunch

You aren't going to get something for nothing in this mans universe...

 

[clarky003]

I accept it wouldnt work, just putting idea's together, as there are machines that use permanent magnets to create perpetual motion,.

[url]http://japan.com/technology/index.php[/URL]

and one that resembles more of what we are trying to accomplish. Neutrino, there are certain configurations that work... heres a great example.
http://www.greaterthings.com/News/FreeEnergy/Directory/Perendev/MagneticMotor/index.html

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2004/06/30/6900029PerendevPowerMagneticMotor/index.html
-Movies on the right hand side

http://www.fdp.nu/perendev/-how it works

besides I dont believe in the second law of thermodynamics,

for someone who has a concept of Zero point or Vaccum matrix, it doesnt make sense anymore, it is a superficial law, and its being discovered our world isnt operated or manifested on superficial levels.

Magnets can be imprinted also, they dont just have to have 1 North and South Pole, smaller atoms in the material can be treated to create multiple poles, for whatever purpose.

Neodynium is a strong magnet, and with a Linear rotory gyro motor the imprinted magnetic fields work to reduce friction.

On Searls device, they have to imprint these fields to create low friction surfaces, so the rollers sit on magnetic force rather than a surface...

as shown here... http://www.sisrc.com/a1.htm

and explained here

The Impressed Magnetic Fields
The rollers have a primary north and south pole, as do the plates in this case. There's a primary north and south pole on the rollers and a primary north and south pole on the plates. Obviously you will have the north pole of the roller attracted to the south pole of the plate.

Ordinarily they would clamp right on and not be able to move, especially being made with neodymium. But there's a secondary field impressed on these magnets using an AC compo nent. By impressing an AC magnetic field on the roller, Prof. Searl was able to create the demonstration in Figure 6 using a bar and two rollers. The rollers would go completely around the bar even around the 90 degee angle becuse of the way the fields was impressed on the magnets.

This shows the field when you make these magnets you have to use an AC component to influence the DC field. What it does, it warps it and they go on at the same time when you're turning this magnet. As the field is warped, multiple poles are formed on the surface of the rollers and on the rings of the SEG. The frequency used to do this is not the same on the rollers as it is on the rings. This creates a non unity between the two faces so that as the magnets try to achieve unity and go to a north-south orientation, they cannot do it.

The imprinting is being done in Germany. Figure 7. One of the most difficult things in making this device is to impress the magnetic lines and cool it without cracking. Coils are used to print the magnetic lines by first suppressing the existing fields, then generating the impressed field, and finally to cool the finished component. Oscilloscopes are used to monitor the printed wave form. Figure 8.

When the finished rollers are placed underneath some iron filings on paper, like at school, we get some unusual results. . . a large pattern on each pole, and almost no pattern or an angular pattern in an arc between poles . There are both layers and individual poles and this uniformity of the poles on the outside is very important. These magnetic poles will be their own prime mover.

One of the marvelous things about the SEG is that none of the parts touch. There is no friction whatsoever, the rollers float on the magnetic field because of the AC component that has been impressed upon them. They will not fly off because of the DC that has been impressed upon them. They travel around the first ring at about 250 mph. In each ring going outward, the rollers' speed in creases by 2 and a half times.

full article here.. http://www.searleffect.com/free/articles/artextra.html

 

[Dead-Inside]

oh right, sorry I guess i didnt read it properly , im a skim reader, lol,

to answer your question I suppose they could use new technology to develop ways in the future, im sure its possible

Here in Sweden we drill up the mountains, well, okay like 2. Then we have these special, HUGE, containers. And like 600 meters down in the mountain they're sealed with concrete, and then more concrete. Then they'll remain there for 30 years or something before they're either brought up or left forever.

Currently our nation of 9 million have 4 Nuclear Power Plants. The rest is mostly water and wind power (We own you).

 

[clarky003]

using the principle of the perendev motor, I thought I could have a go at designing something similar that you could install into the floor of a building/ home, for power generation.

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2004/06/30/6900029PerendevPowerMagneticMotor/index.html

stator arms retracted,

the stator arms lower manualy on a resistant bearing to keep the motion slow to prevent sudden, and possibly damaging movement.

offset Stator magnets meet with the offset inner magnets which begin to rotate clockwise on a low friction bearing.

 

[Brian Damage]

I'm sure I read somewhere that type two superconductors (or maybe it was type one) block out magnetic fields... hence the meissener effect.

And doesn't the second law of thermodynamics state that it's impossible to create or destroy energy, or something like that? Seems to me that Zero Point machines aren't creating it, they're taking it from somewhere else, like a solar cell...

[EDIT]: Hmmm... is it possible to make a biased magnet? One with a field that is stronger one way than the other?