Famous atheists

evil^milk said:
The same can be said for an artistic method. That's why there are teachers. I think that's what I mean, anyway.

:P
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but Picasso didn't follow the method to art and he got scorned too. :(

Hell, his father told him that he would never amount to anything.
 
evil^milk said:
The same can be said for an artistic method. That's why there are teachers. I think that's what I mean, anyway.

:P
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What I'm saying is that even if daVinci wrote notes on how to, say, paint the Mona Lisa as he went along nobody would be able to reproduce it exactly. With scientific method reproduceability is paramount.
 
The problem is that science and religion both deal with finding answers to questions about life, the world and everything else. Science and art on the other hand have very little overlap in their intentions.
 
Krynn72 said:
The problem is that science and religion both deal with finding answers to questions about life, the world and everything else.
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I would argue that Science is meant to answer the How, while Religion attempts to provide answers for Why.
 
One wise man once said that religion and science are different branches of the same tree. I support that view, though I believe the ol' atheism vs. religion threads got old about two years ago.
 
Eejit said:
I would argue that Science is meant to answer the How, while Religion attempts to provide answers for Why.
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Not necessarily.

Some "why questions" can be answered by science (Why can't this substance be divided into other substances?), and religion, throughout the ages, has historically tried to answer how questions (How did the world get here?)

This puts them at odds with each other on many issues.
 
evil^milk said:
I don't see the problem in applying scientific method to art. Isn't it all the same method for everything? The function for the different methods is what sets it apart, which actually determines the method. But there must be thousands of approaches, all worth exploring. At the end of the day there's something that works out for everyone.

Ultimately, the end product is what counts, which is finally what will matter in the long run.
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Just about to say that, not applying science to art is absolutely crazy, I don't think people realize the awesome things that would be gone if we did not apply science to art.
 
zombieturtle01 said:
Just about to say that, not applying science to art is absolutely crazy, I don't think people realize the awesome things that would be gone if we did not apply science to art.
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-.-

Applying science != applying scientific method.
 
Eejit said:
-.-

Applying science != applying scientific method.
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Applying a rigid scientific method to art makes it artifice. There's even art in that, but it's deceptive and disappointing.

Applying a more loose and human approach to art makes it worthwhile. But there's even science involved in that.

Oh lawd :borg:
 
evil^milk said:
Applying a rigid scientific method to art makes it artifice. There's even art in that, but it's deceptive and disappointing.
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Yes, if you remember I was saying scientific method should not be applied to art. Applying scientific discoveries to art can be ok.
 
Eejit said:
Yes, if you remember I was saying scientific method should not be applied to art. Applying scientific discoveries to art can be ok.
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Why on earth not? Symmetry, assymetry, abstraction, contrast - all scientific concepts. The fact is, art is symbolism that affects our psychology. The scientific method can be applied to art because art is based on these fundamentals.
 
Religion is an emotional crutch for many people. Real life and mortality can be hard to face, religion gives people an illusion to help them pass through hard time and difficult questions.

However I don't think you will be able to generalize religion as it's different for every person.
 
I think it is a human, or sentient, need to question 'Why'. I don't really believe there is a universal why. The more I think about it, the less I understand the universe and the more I accept that there are still questions unanswered about the nature of existence.

But, for our little time here on Earth, I like to focus on something I can apply.
 
I figure the reason for our existance is generally unimportant, whether it be by a god, or pure evolution.
What I do find important is being a good human being and helping myself and others in the best way that I can while I am here.
If there ends up being a god, hopefully it will like what I've done, if not, oh well.
 
This is incredible. The thread was so blatantly stupid and it's gone...nice...ish...places.

I like science, and I also like art, and a lot of other things, but I do not like religion, except as something to study, and be interested in, but not to follow, or heed.
 
I don't even know why anyone cares.

Seriously, let people believe in whatever they want, why be an arrogant prick and force your beliefs on other people? I mean, if you were a Christian and an Atheist came up to you and said 'omg! god doesn't exist, your stoopid! lol!', then by all means punch him in the face, get in his face about it or whatever. And if you were an Atheist and a Christian came up to you and said 'AH! You are going to hell, hethan!', then do what you must, but if you believe in something and no one says anything negative about it, then let other people believe in what they want..

These random attacks on peoples beliefs are completely retarded, it seems like alot of people on HL2.net believe that just because someone is Christian they are the stereotypical bible-thumper, and if someone is Atheist, then they are completely evil, because they believe there is no God, so they won't go to hell.. Completely wrong. There are good and evil Christians, just as there are good and evil Atheists..

Just let people believe what they want, and only start one of these stupid arguments if someone deserves it..

By the way, I'm not Christian or Atheist, I don't believe in a God, but then again there is no proof one doesn't exist.
 
lol, why should one criticise other beliefs? Maybe because their beliefs might lead them to do genuinely harmful things.

This is the bit where you go "okay, what I meant was, don't criticise their beliefs as long as they don't harm anyone."

Okay!
 
No, I already said there are good an evil on both sides, no belief is good or evil, they just... are.

People do bad things, they mostly just use religion as their cause, if there was no religion, they'd turn to something else to blame it on, like society or something..

I think religion threads should be banned on this site. Alot (not all) of people on this site have no respect for either side (depending on what side they are on), and the only thing they want to do is prove the other side wrong.. I also noticed that it's only religion that believes in God, there was a Buddhist thread not long ago and not one person argued. It's because of a few bad Christians in the media, and suddenly everyone hates that religion..
 
Atheists are not more intelligent than people who are religious. This topic is silly.
 
Dog-- said:
I don't even know why anyone cares.

Seriously, let people believe in whatever they want, why be an arrogant prick and force your beliefs on other people? I mean, if you were a Christian and an Atheist came up to you and said 'omg! god doesn't exist, your stoopid! lol!', then by all means punch him in the face, get in his face about it or whatever. And if you were an Atheist and a Christian came up to you and said 'AH! You are going to hell, hethan!', then do what you must, but if you believe in something and no one says anything negative about it, then let other people believe in what they want..

These random attacks on peoples beliefs are completely retarded, it seems like alot of people on HL2.net believe that just because someone is Christian they are the stereotypical bible-thumper, and if someone is Atheist, then they are completely evil, because they believe there is no God, so they won't go to hell.. Completely wrong. There are good and evil Christians, just as there are good and evil Atheists..

Just let people believe what they want, and only start one of these stupid arguments if someone deserves it..

By the way, I'm not Christian or Atheist, I don't believe in a God, but then again there is no proof one doesn't exist.
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Well, as you grow up (or don't) the stupidest of people do the craziest of things for attention. It gets worse if you never let it out. People from the past can prove this to you - just open up your school history textbook. And yes, if someone deserves it, it is written.

Also, there's whole fields of science unexplored about God, or whatever you believe in. But the unexplored is intuitive, and I believe it's in every one of us.

Which in otherwords translates to your beliefs.
 
Pesmerga said:
You mean, atheists are not necessarily more intelligent.
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I think that religion is far too personal a concept for most people who are religious for their intellect to have big enough impact on it to change it.
 
But saying atheists are less intelligent than religious people is pretty fallacious.

I assume you understand my point, but I have to disagree. I think that the majority of people brought into this world are more intelligent (loose definition here) than those brought in 100 years ago through education, genetics, and environmental pressures to raise intelligent children. I could be wrong, though.
 
Atheists are generally more intelligent than religious people in one particular area...

Still, I don't know whether we're more intelligent now than we were 'then'; there's an argument to be made that with an easier life, we have less incentive to blah blah blah. And plenty of people in the past were extremely smart. But probably, with rising standards of education, more people are more smarter than ever beforerer.
 
Sulkdodds said:
Atheists are generally more intelligent than religious people in one particular area..
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It's different with every individual, you can't round people all up in one catagory in this situation and say "you're more intelligent, you're less intelligent".
 
Because that's what I was doing...

That "one particular area" is: one believes in God, and one does not.

That is a very small particularity, very specific, but, I jokingly insist, a real one. :p

Of course it doesn't mean shit. It's just one aspect of a worldview and in other ways the religious person might be far more intellectually discriminating.
 
I wouldn't say humanity as a whole was "more hardshipped" than we are now, at least to any degree that it would cultivate some sort of increased intelligence.

We have some brilliantly intelligent people now working on some brilliantly creative things now, and it's been estimated that 90% of those in the scientific community are atheist or nonreligious.

The fact is that more than half the world?s population, and more than 90% of the world?s scientists,* do not believe in a personal God, and hence would be considered atheists by many Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Worldwide, there are about 1.1 billion nonreligious people
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http://skepdic.com/atheism.html

# Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
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http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Atheists: Worldwide- 219,925,000
Nonreligious- 841,549,000
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http://www.zpub.com/un/pope/relig.html


An official European Union survey provides corresponding figures: 18% of the EU population do not believe in a god; 27% accept the existence of some supernatural "spiritual life force", while 52% affirm belief in a specific god. The proportion of believers rises to 65% among those who had left school by the age of fifteen; survey respondents who considered themselves to be from a strict family background were more likely to believe in god than those who felt their upbringing lacked firm rules.
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A letter published in Nature in 1998 reported a survey suggesting that belief in a personal god or afterlife was at an all-time low among the members of the U.S. National Academy of Science, only 7.0% of whom believed in a personal god as compared with more than 85% of the general U.S. population. In the same year Frank Sulloway of MIT and Michael Shermer of California State University conducted a study which found in their polling sample of "credentialed" U.S. adults (12% had Ph.Ds and 62% were college graduates) 64% believed in God, and there was a correlation indicating that religious conviction diminished with education level. Such an inverse correlation between religiosity and intelligence has been found by 39 studies carried out between 1927 and 2002, according to an article in Mensa Magazine. These findings broadly concur with a 1958 statistical meta-analysis from Professor Michael Argyle of Oxford University. He analyzed seven research studies that had investigated correlation between attitude to religion and measured intelligence among school and college students from the U.S. Although a clear negative correlation was found, the analysis did not identify causality but noted that factors such as authoritarian family background and social class may also have played a part.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#Demographics

Clearly there must be some correlation. Let's look at intelligence growth rates...

Has intelligence changed at all in the era of the Internet?
Merzenich: Over the past 20 years or so, beginning before the Internet really took hold, the standard measure of "intelligence" (cognitive ability) has risen significantly (well more than 10 points). No one really knows what to pin this on, but it is a well-documented fact.

Are we getting smarter--or more lazily reliant on computers, and therefore, dumber?
Merzenich: Our brains are different from those of all humans before us. Our brain is modified on a substantial scale, physically and functionally, each time we learn a new skill or develop a new ability. Massive changes are associated with our modern cultural specializations.
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http://www.news.com/Are-we-getting-smarter-or-dumber/2008-1008_3-5875404.html

"Our advantage over our ancestors is relatively uniform at all ages from the cradle to the grave," says Flynn. Nobody knows if the gains will persist, but "there is no doubt that they dominated the 20th century and that their existence and size were quite unexpected."

He is not afraid to offend. In July, when a journalist asked him about New Zealand census figures showing that less-educated women were bearing more children, he said the trend would exert downward pressure on average intelligence?just as average heights would fall if short people had more children than taller ones.
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http://www.moreintelligentlife.com/node/654

The fact that uneducated people generally have more children and intelligent people have less is an obvious factor to a decreased worldwide average IQ. But can the fewer intelligent people outweigh this numerical disposition? Yet I digress... I believe atheism lends itself more towards those who are above current average intelligence.
 
What I meant is that you cannot reasonably draw the conclusion that someone is less intelligent than anyone else purely based on the binary fact of whether they're religious or not. I'm sure that on the whole atheists are more intelligent, but plenty of fantastically intelligent people are also religious.
 
Heheh, I know, which is why we're not quote-warring right now.
 
I hate those damn quote wars.
 
Ennui said:
Atheists are not more intelligent than people who are religious. This topic is silly.
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I never said athiests were more intelligent. I said they were more moral. And Ravoili's video proves my point.
 
You also can't reasonably say that atheists are more moral than religious people based on that fact alone. Can we stop with the stupid ****ing carpet statements? Maybe, I believe that, on average, atheists tend to make and believe in superior moral choices than those who make their moral decisions based on the Bible, Quran, or other biblical texts.
 
Jintor said:
I hate those damn quote wars.
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Another drug thread will pop up eventually and I'll get mah quotes out.
Atomic_Piggy said:
I never said athiests were more intelligent. I said they were more moral.
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Well, regardless, you're still wrong. Same principle as with intelligence - while atheists may be more moral on the whole as they are forced to use internal sources (ie reason) to decide on appropriate morals rather than derive them from religion, any atheist or religious person is not more or less likely to be moral than the other based on fact of religious preference alone.
 
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