How can you tell the difference between heavy rock and metal?

[Prince of China]

Seriously, I can't really tell the difference. Is there a difference, or are they the same?

 

[StardogChampion]

Alice in Chains are kind of heavy rock/metal, scroll down the page for 30 second previews:

Song - Angry Chair = I guess metal?
Song - Would? = Heavy rock?

 

[D€vIL²]

I would say the drummer, metal has more double kick and hard rock is usually none but its still hard!

 

[poksmote]

^what he said^ plus:

heavy rock = what you hear on the radio

metal = spikes, leather, satan, drugs, sex (sin), fast/intense drums (drummers should be extremely talented and capable of playing things 99% of other drummers cannot - blast beats and real fast doublebass ie "double kick"), fast/intense guitar - "speed picking" with heavy distortion (and reverb for black metal), and vocals range from epic to the grotesque (demon like)

heavy rock isn't even comparable... open up your ears.

 

[Stigmata]

Finally, somebody explains it with some sense. Every metalhead that I've talked to is convinced that his or her favorite metal sub-genre is in fact the only metal sub-genre in existence, and that all others are either "hard rock" or "not metal".

 

[StardogChampion]

Metal is known for, but not limited to:

• Long songs (not a rule, but it's not uncommon for metal bands to make several songs on an album more than five or six minutes)
• Lyrical themes dealing more with history, fiction, etc. instead of love, sex, and other such things
• Faster tempo than used by most rock bands
• Complex song structures, including tempo changes and multiple riffs per song
• Long instrumental sections, often with elabourite and lengthly guitar solos
• More complex drumming than seen in rock, and often uses double-bass drumming (in most cases)

Metal is also much more focused on the sum of all parts than most rock songs. Rock tends to be more focused on the vocals and lyrics, whereas metal is focused more on the music as a whole.

That, and metal is the ideal type of music to headbang to, not including the entire metal culture, fashion, and language (often one can identify a metalhead simply by talking for a few minutes with them, or looking at them). And, I'm not even going over metal sub-genres, such as black, death, and thrash. What I've outlined applies mostly to heavy metal (the traditional stuff, like Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc.). Once you get into the music, you'll start figuring out the differences for yourself.

Highly, highly, highly disagree with almost everything you said.

 

[Axyon]

Highly, highly, highly disagree with almost everything you said.

Well, in the case of the bullet points, it's very hard to describe 'metal'. 'Metal' doesn't exist as a term for a band or song, it's just a term for everything within the genre. As Searano said, there are a number of subgenres (around 9-12 'main' ones, many many more minor types). A few bullet points on that list accurately describe one subgenre of metal, a few others describe another. To make things clearer, it'd be easier to use bullet points to describe all of those 9-12 subgenres.

For example;

Power Metal:

• Emphasis on melody
• Use of keyboards
• 'Clean' vocals (no screaming/growling)
• Lyrics usually refer to fantasy, sci-fi etc. Sometimes emphasised to be 'cheesy'

Black Metal:

• Quick riffing, heavy use of drums with (usually) double-bass
• 'Shrieking' vocals, or occasionally growled or screamed.
• References to satanism, the devil, death etc.

You get the idea. Maybe I'll continue that list at some point.

 

[Axyon]

If you'd like (and as Axyon nicely suggested) I could type out what I believe makes each of the sub-genres (especially the ones I am most affiliated with), but first I want to know why you think what I said is wrong.

Heh, it seems we've both had the same idea.

 

[KagePrototype]

It's hard enough to generalise one on it's own (because both tend to have a ridicuous amount of sub-genres), never mind differentiating one from the other.

I always figured it was like the good and evil twin scenario; heavy rock being the easily likeable and basic twin, compared to the evil, generally more complex may-one-day-rule-the-world-with-a-spiked-fist twin, who's a lot harder to get along with. But then, being twins, they share some characteristics, like both being generally loud and heavy (thought metal tends to be more-so) and guitar orientated. Though I don't claim to be an expert on these matters, so take it all with a grain of salt.

 

[Steve]

In short, Metal > Hard Rock.

 

[SimonomiS]

In the end, unless there was some universal overseer to put each in a genre, we'll be stuck with individual opinions. All in all, its still music, but so is trance. :x

 

[mortiz]

Well in the beginning when Heavy Metal bands started appearing they were just labelled as hard rock. For instance bands like Priest and Maiden were just Hard Rock, but the term "Heavy Metal" leaked in from some where.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Metal is like Punk, it's the attitude that seperates it from Rock.

 

[Axyon]

Metal is like Punk, it's the attitude that seperates it from Rock.

Please tell me you did not compare Metal to Punk just then.

 

[Prince of China]

What would Disturbed be catagorized under?

 

[KagePrototype]

What would Disturbed be catagorized under?

I consider them nu-metal myself. Or "turd", which is a bit more suitable IMO. Whatever tickles your fancy.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Disturbed is kind of a fusion of new and old metal. It's more nu on the first album with the rapping and whatnot, but with Prayer they went kind of old school while still keeping the nu vibe.

Edit - Damn you, now I got the massive Disturbed cravings, and I don't have any of their albums on me. BLAST!

 

[StardogChampion]

Metal is known for, but not limited to:

• Long songs (not a rule, but it's not uncommon for metal bands to make several songs on an album more than five or six minutes)
• Lyrical themes dealing more with history, fiction, etc. instead of love, sex, and other such things
• Faster tempo than used by most rock bands
• Complex song structures, including tempo changes and multiple riffs per song
• Long instrumental sections, often with elabourite and lengthly guitar solos
• More complex drumming than seen in rock, and often uses double-bass drumming (in most cases)

Metal is also much more focused on the sum of all parts than most rock songs. Rock tends to be more focused on the vocals and lyrics, whereas metal is focused more on the music as a whole.

That, and metal is the ideal type of music to headbang to, not including the entire metal culture, fashion, and language (often one can identify a metalhead simply by talking for a few minutes with them, or looking at them). And, I'm not even going over metal sub-genres, such as black, death, and thrash. What I've outlined applies mostly to heavy metal (the traditional stuff, like Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc.). Once you get into the music, you'll start figuring out the differences for yourself.

///

May I ask why? I said that those mostly apply to heavy metal. I didn't take into account death, black, thrash, power, folk and other sub-genres. There are huge differences between all of them, but I assumed Prince of China was talking about standard heavy metal, so that's what I was explaining. Also, note that I'm talking in general. There certainly are exceptions to my points. If you'd like (and as Axyon nicely suggested) I could type out what I believe makes each of the sub-genres (especially the ones I am most affiliated with), but first I want to know why you think what I said is wrong.

It's more the comparison to rock that I disagreed with, rather than your description of metal. But I don't feel like typing some long paragraphs just now...

 

[Zerimski]

This strict adherence to genres saddens me.

I'm not referring to anyone here specifically, in fact this conversation is being carried out in a very civilised fashion, but it must be said that "metalheads" as a rule are only beaten by art students in terms of pretension. Now Axyon, step away from the high-horse, I fully appreciate the generalisation etc etc. It just seems that wherever this kind of conversation is being held, it ends up as stigmata says, with ridiculous claims such as "Avant-garde-black-nouveau-death is the only true form of metal! You're all posers!" or somesuch.

 

[PvtRyan]

Fully agree with the guy with the reset post count, why would I care under which subgenre a song fits, as long as it sounds good, it's OK. Nor do I understand that nu-metal is being treated like the devil by all these elitist metalheads.

 

[KagePrototype]

Fully agree with the guy with the reset post count, why would I care under which subgenre a song fits, as long as it sounds good, it's OK. Nor do I understand that nu-metal is being treated like the devil by all these elitist metalheads.

I like nu-metal. It's just Disturbed I can't stand.

I don't see where the elitist comments are coming from though...nor how they were neccessary.

 

[Axyon]

This strict adherence to genres saddens me.

I'm not referring to anyone here specifically, in fact this conversation is being carried out in a very civilised fashion, but it must be said that "metalheads" as a rule are only beaten by art students in terms of pretension. Now Axyon, step away from the high-horse, I fully appreciate the generalisation etc etc. It just seems that wherever this kind of conversation is being held, it ends up as stigmata says, with ridiculous claims such as "Avant-garde-black-nouveau-death is the only true form of metal! You're all posers!" or somesuch.

I fail to see where I've been riding the 'high-horse' in this thread. I simply pointed out a few of the differences between the subgenres of metal without any prejudice towards Hard Rock. The comparison of Metal to Punk comment was made because I simply hate Punk. I am allowed to have opinions, aren't I? Jesus.

I do love how you complain about strict adherences to genres, then go on to say that one group of people are more pretentious than others.

 

[StardogChampion]

And plus, i'm an art student.

 

[Zerimski]

I fail to see where I've been riding the 'high-horse' in this thread. I simply pointed out a few of the differences between the subgenres of metal without any prejudice towards Hard Rock. The comparison of Metal to Punk comment was made because I simply hate Punk. I am allowed to have opinions, aren't I? Jesus.

I do love how you complain about strict adherences to genres, then go on to say that one group of people are more pretentious than others.

If you'd actually read my post instead of just picking out your name and any surrounding words, you'd notice that I said I wasn't referring to anyone here. The "high-horse" comment was tongue in cheek. At no point did I say you'd been "riding the high-horse" in this thread, however I do know how much you love to sit astride it and gallop straight past any kind of relevant point. Yes, you're allowed to have opinions, but you're also allowed to have a sense of bloody humour.

And as for my pretension statement, also notice the part where I said I fully appreciate the generalisation. By this I mean that I understand that it does not apply to everyone. However, from the many art students I've met, and also the many "metalheads" (another point, notice the quotes around that?) I have found that the stereotypes fit quite nicely to a decent proportion of the aforementioned groups (of course it would, otherwise the stereotype wouldn't exist now, would it). I should reiterate now that I am fully aware that a stereotype does not apply to everyone within that group, and that it is in fact a caricature. I merely used them to illustrate a point.

 

[Axyon]

With you, it's so hard to tell sometimes (especially since our interactions consist half and half of arsing around or taking digs at each other). Seriously though, you could try using smilies or something next time - being an internet forum, it's very hard to interpret things sometimes.

 

[PvtRyan]

I like nu-metal. It's just Disturbed I can't stand.

I don't see where the elitist comments are coming from though...nor how they were neccessary.

That elitist comment wasn't aimed at you and your twisted opinion of Disturbed

Was aimed at the people who use nu-metal as a way to grade a band/song. If it's bad, it's nu-metal, because after all, all nu-metal is for wannabe's and 'conformists'. At least, that's how I often see people judge nu-metal.