K98 Model

[xC4RN4G3x]

This is my second model in 3DSM and as you will see I'm not a very efficient polygon user. This is the German Kar98 and is currently 2705 polygons without the charges+stripperclip(ammunition). I used 10 sided cylinders for the barrel / bolt and I wasn't sure if it was too much. Need lots of crits.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

oh and I havn't smoothed the model out yet since smoothing is the worst part for me in modeling. I can never get it right

 

[DarkDamo]

lol i was just going to say smoothing on the grip, but other then that its good

 

[Sir Phoenixx]

http://world.guns***/rifle/rfl02-e.htm
Looks alright.

The bolt is supposed to sit on the right side, and doesn't bend that much, after the bend it looks like it's supposed to be at about a 45 degree angle, instead of going straight down.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

First off, I've reversed the gun so when ingame you can see the detailed part of the gun and not the boring side.
Second, I have a reference picture that shows the bolt...and I just tried to make it look like that. From the picture, it seems to go below 45 degrees. :x
I've also noticed that I forgot to add the indent on the side of the gun where the bolt goes down, wow i'm stupid. I told myself I was gonna do that last...but somehow....i forgot :angry:'
and i think your right about it not bending that much...gonna need to fix that

 

[Sir Phoenixx]

First off, I've reversed the gun so when ingame you can see the detailed part of the gun and not the boring side.

Unlike assault rifles and machine guns where the ejection port, bolt, etc. are on the right and can't be seen, bolt action rifles and some others have these parts at the top, and like on this gun, the bolt and other parts are easily seen sitting on the correct side.

(There is no "boring" side, and there is no reason to flip gun models, especially so you can see very simple animations, or lack thereof in this case, the only thing that would be animated on this gun is the hand raising and pulling back the bolt, and the shells flying out, both can be easily seen from the correct side.)

 

[mindless_moder]

do you know how to unwrap ?
"First off, I've reversed the gun so when ingame you can see the detailed part of the gun and not the boring side. "
everyone does that .

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

haha yeah. If you misunderstood I'm sorry, but what I also meant was that I wanted the person playing the game to be able to see his left hand operate the lever bolt so you can see more clearly what is being done. Just to let you know, CS does this with most of their guns.
And no I do not know how to unwrap and I probably dont even know what it exactly means.

 

[mindless_moder]

i didnt misunderstand you. i just stated that everyone likes to do it.
well thats actually a fairly easy gun to unwrap . its pitty it wont get textured.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

oh i was talking to sir phoenix because...he talks like people dont usually do it.
i dont think my models will look good textured with my current skill level.
i also need to cut down some polygons i think. 2705 is a bit over the limit i believe.

 

[Sir Phoenixx]

oh i was talking to sir phoenix because...he talks like people dont usually do it.

No, I wasn't, and yes, people usually don't make them flipped.

Just to let you know, CS does this with most of their guns.

Are you trying to make an exact copy of Counter Strike? No? Then it having it's weapon models flipped is irrelevant.

Making them flipped is just stupid, there is no reason to flip them.

i also need to cut down some polygons i think. 2705 is a bit over the limit i believe.

Even though that's fine (HL2 weapons are around 2000-3000), you should always try to optomize it as much as possible without removing (too much) noticeable detail.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

ok then...well...is there anything wrong with what the gun actually looks like? (besides the bolt)

 

[Sir Phoenixx]

Nothing major. The main body looks a little too flat though (the left and right sides), it should be a little more rounded. (like this: http://www.emedia.uznam.net.pl/foto/mauser-k98.jpg, which is a slightly different variation)

Can you post a screenshot of it showing it with the wireframe over the model?

 

[mindless_moder]

no reason if you or ok making a boring game . you want to capture the attention of ur audience at all moments that means letting them see details in animation , texture and the model itself it keeps them interested.
and quite a lot of people do it all the cs skinner for one ... the netire counter strike range and a lot of other games. people like to see bullets poping out of an ejection unit even tho in real life it might hit u right between the eyes.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

I uh...didnt really know how to get a wireframe so i just looked through the options at the top and found grab viewport. I hope this was what you were asking for. if not then sorry.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

If someone could give me a smoothing tutorial or a Render tutorial that would be awesome. I really havn't figured out how to render my images so they look like clay yet and my smoothing is horrible. thanx in advance.

 

[Sir Phoenixx]

no reason if you or ok making a boring game.

Hey, I found a screenshot from one of those "boring games":

Wait a second, that's Half Life 2! Notice how it isn't flipped?

you want to capture the attention of ur audience at all moments that means letting them see details in animation , texture and the model itself it keeps them interested.

Lol, so seeing very simple animations, which for the most part is just the bolt/cover moving back and the shell ejecting, is what captures your attention in a game? Actually, you can see the shell ejecting from the correct side, so only the bolt and cover moving back and forward is the only thing you can't see from the other side. (This is only true for assault rifles, shotguns, (sub) machine guns, etc., for most sniper and bolt/etc. rifles and handguns, you can see all of the animated parts from the correct side.)

And unless you cut the model in half, flip one side and put it on the other side of the screen so you can see both halves at the same time, you'd always be seeing pretty much the same amount of texture/model detail if they're flipped or not.

and quite a lot of people do it all the cs skinner for one ... the netire counter strike range and a lot of other games.

You wouldn't mind naming "a lot" of games, besides Counter Strike, that have their weapon models flipped?

people like to see bullets poping out of an ejection unit even tho in real life it might hit u right between the eyes.

You can see them eject in any game with the weapons not flipped, like the screenshot above.

 

[mindless_moder]

there are a lot of cuts in that side face that just has to be flat you can save a lot by deleting it and remaking the face.
no i can not name the games of the top of my head because i dont keep note of the titles that do this . but i do know that it is very popular and that i have seen it in a lot of games.im not launching some kind of attack on you im just saying that shell ejection through the ejection unit is an interesting detail for the gamer to see. hl2 doesnt have to worry about doing this because they are trying to focus the player on the story.
you might see the shells eject but u cant see the ejection system and the bolt .. you need motion to sustain the gamers interest if you have a gun thats almost totaly static besides the reload and small recoil its not going to be as interesting as one that shows the shell ejection unit and bolt.

 

[Ti133700N]

Ok this is a little tut for ya to do the clay render

First, add a plane under your model so it sits on something.

Then, add a skylight. You can check the Cast Shadow option.

Select your model.
Open the material editor (M).
In a material slot, use these settings.
And apply it to your model.

Then select the plane.
Use another slot to make a similar texture but a little darker.
Apply it to the plane.

You can open the exposure control pannel and play with the settings. This is what I used for this example
Render

And this is what you should get

If it's too dark for your taste, you can easily fix this by going into the exposure control pannel and up the physical scale and brightness.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

hmm let me try out the new render technique. i'll tell you how it ends up
ps: what the hell does it matter if i flip or if i dont flip the model? isn't it my model? and in the end(90% of the time), it actually looks more interesting(on the right guns), if the model is flipped.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

wow! thanx alot for the clay render. it worked out perfectly. looks very sexy indeed.

 

[gh0st]

show us..

 

[Sir Phoenixx]

no i can not name the games of the top of my head because i dont keep note of the titles that do this . but i do know that it is very popular and that i have seen it in a lot of games.

A lot of games being Counter Strike and Counter Strike: Source... (and only one that I've found, Battlefield Vietnam)

im not launching some kind of attack on you im just saying that shell ejection through the ejection unit is an interesting detail for the gamer to see. hl2 doesnt have to worry about doing this because they are trying to focus the player on the story.
you might see the shells eject but u cant see the ejection system and the bolt ..

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think the average player would find an extremely simple animation, of nothing more then a bolt and cover going straight back and forth interesting.

you need motion to sustain the gamers interest if you have a gun thats almost totaly static besides the reload and small recoil its not going to be as interesting as one that shows the shell ejection unit and bolt.

No, you need a good story, gameplay, models and textures, special effects, sound, etc., not incorrectly made weapons. The fact that you can see the recoil and reloading makes it not 'totally static'. There's more then enough that can be seen from the correct side to not flip them, changing the firing mode, reloading, working the bolt, and seeing the shells fly away, with the only animation that can't be seen from the correct side is the bolt going back and forth (scratch that for hand guns and bolt action rifles and some others).

(I've also noticed that some of the CS/CS:S weapons aren't even flipped...)

 

[RipperRoo]

You realise you could solve this problem by putting the bolt on the normal side, and having the gun tilt slightly when the guy goes to bolt it, I mean, I can imagine it being pretty hard to bolt without tilting it towards yourself slightly.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

it's not a problem, they are just arguing.

No, you need a good story, gameplay, models and textures, special effects, sound, etc., not incorrectly made weapons.

ummm...whats wrong with having all that an a flipped model? the game will still have everything else and in my opinion i think it will look better if the model is flipped(not all the time).
PS: Not everyone is a gun expert so most people won't even notice the gun is flipped. Its just for the extra detail/extended animations/better view. If you want to make a mod that is 100% realistic, then don't flip your models, but it you just want to make a mod that's fun(what the **** games are for), do whatever u want. GAMES ARE FOR FUN.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

show us..

uhhh i tried it on my ak 47, but heres what it looks like. i love u ti133700N

 

[crackhead]

ok i might av found a problem for you in the second picture in the part to the right of the trigger theres like a line that is split in half and bent with a line attached tothe middle to the bottom but not the top. sorry im not very articulate at the moment but im sure someone else will see it an be able to explain the problem. ive got a feeling that when the model is made into an smd that part would cause some problems

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

i'm uhhh lost give me a second to regain my brain cells because...i was re-reading your reply like 10 times and looking at the picture and going back and forth....i dont think i really found what you were trying to explain i'll try looking for it again once i have some free time.

 

[Ti133700N]

Im glad i could help.
Hum could you double check that the plane doesn't go right in the middle of the model, cuz the model looks very thin, especially the clip.

Also, I wouldn't bother modeling the thing in the middle of the gun (left red circle in the pic) because when you will place your model in the right position for the game, you wont really see it and it will be far from the player so it wont bereally noticable. You could remove some details in it or do it only in bump map and in the texture.

Same thing for the hole (right red circle in the pic). Most of the time it will be hidden so you could texture it instead. You would gain alot of polies by doing this.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

yeah i was thinking about that, but i decided to model it just for the hell of it because its easier to take out later than to put in later(if i wanted to).
i'm gonna smooth this out later because i'm working on my deagle at the moment.
(I HATE SMOOTHING!!!!!!!!!)

 

[mikeandike22]

smoothing isnt that hard, it doesnt look like you would run into any parts on this model that would be difficult. the only thing about smoothing is it is time consuming.

 

[Ti133700N]

I like smoothing, what I dislike is unwrapping!!! That, is time consuming.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

sometimes when i smooth i get like black diagnol lines across my polygons. it really annoys me and makes me waste like 129391 hours trying to figure it out and i can never fix it.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

unwrapping is for making skins right?

 

[Ti133700N]

Yea, it's laying the UVs and you save it as a bmp and then you can texture it. But what takes time is to put the faces on different groups and, you have to put the checker texture and look if there is any stretching and you have to dispose the faces so that it takes most of the space etc.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

lets say there is some stretching...could u just place down a flat color so it doesnt look like its stretching?

 

[Sir Phoenixx]

If you see stretching/distortion, you move the UVW coordinates around until you've removed as much as possible. With the checker texture, you're trying to get the checkers to be as close to perfect squares as you can.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

oh ok.

 

[mikeandike22]

how do you set a material to clay, is this a 3ds max 7 feature or is it available in 6 as well.

 

[Ti133700N]

Yes it is available in Max 6, as long as it has skylights.

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85544
(Yea that's funny cuz it's on page 1 of this thread)