No DM due to physics?

[Rubeus]

I was just curious about this.. in CSS, objects repel you.. this has been discussed in many threads. The reasoning is that the server would have to do too many physics calculations, resulting in high ping. If HL2 DM were to be in the game, would the same apply? Most people, when they thought of HL2 DM, I imagine were thinking about manipulating barrels and throwing them at people, etc.

Perhaps servers wouldn't be able to handle the physics involved with low ping.. therefore DM would just be bland, ie. just the weapons with very little physics.

P.S. I'm very disappointed in no DM anyways.. how can they just have an incomplete version of CSS as the multiplayer component? Totally lame.

-Rubeus

 

[Steve]

wow...i never thought about that... that's actually a pretty good theory, ya?

 

[BrimStone04]

I think that they will eventually fix that, at least im crossing my fingers for the day when someone can be sitting on a barrel and u can shoot it and it comes out from under them. and yes this has been discussed a ton of times, and even why it would not work in css, but i still hope they fix it so css can handle the better physics.

i also think someone will produce a hldm for u dm fans, so dont be so disapointed, just give it time nad take in the css and soon hl2.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Not sure, but it doesn't bode well for mod makers who want to have vehicles and such. If the physics have been toned down that much in CS:S to keep the ping in reasonable ranges does that mean mod makers who use the physics system more intensely risk having gigantonormous pings and shocking performance?

We could be doomed to little cramped maps and minimal physics implementations for a long time to come unless there's some miracle fix for the situation.

 

[Rubeus]

Another, (in my opinion) terrible downside if this is true is that mods will not be able to take full advantage of the Source engine and still have acceptable pings in multiplayer. Down the toilet go modmakers dreams..

Of course, it's just a theory.

 

[Valve_Assassin]

Another, (in my opinion) terrible downside if this is true is that mods will not be able to take full advantage of the Source engine and still have acceptable pings in multiplayer. Down the toilet go modmakers dreams..

Of course, it's just a theory.

P'shaw, as clever as HL1 mod teams have proven to be, I doubt they'd let a "little" thing like this get in their way.

 

[Gossoon]

Hmm, a couple of thoughts. Plenty of other MP games have vehicles in them so I don't think vehicles per se are an obstacle. UT2k5 has a pretty good physics system, not all that realistic but still fun. And that has some fairly big player caps. It's common to play with 30 other people. Realistic interactive physics is a different story. It might have to be limited to 4 players or something like Doom3. That would kind of ruin the point for me. But if the levels were cleverly built you might be able to create a decent MP anyway.

 

[blahblahblah]

Maybe some mod teams should switch to a single player mod.

The only physics system comparable to HL2's, is Doom 3. No other game (like UT2k4 or Far Cry) uses a comprehensive physics systems from my understanding. Doom 3 uses its physic system rather heavily which might be a bad sign for having large HL2 physic based mods. Then again HL2 doesn't have to worry too much about dynamic lighting and shadowing. I wouldn't expect to much physics based mods with HL2.

 

[Piddy]

It might be the reason but I also remember reading long ago how the netcode was supposed to handle the moveable objects fairly well by splitting them into two categories; client-side calculated where the position is not game critical and server-side calculated when the position will influence the gameplay.

It'd surprise and disappoint me if it turns out that HL2 DM with flying objects isn't possible.

 

[asparagus]

Physics in cs:s were eliminated mainly due to exploitation; stacking barrels and other objects to get above the skyline. Planting the bomb ( which drops to the bottom ) on top of several objects making it impossible to diffuse.

Of course this ruined the possible fun of making barricades and fun things like that.

I have played on servers where the bouncing is disabled, and ping is fine, so i tend to go with this =P

 

[aeroripper]

Doom 3 uses its physic system rather heavily

it does? All i really ever saw was moveable boxes, an occasionaly moveable light, and a machine or two that used a small amount of physics.

 

[BrimStone04]

doom 3 physics really only happen when u make it, and i mean that by if u see a microscope it moves, but i think if u shot the same microscope in source, it would destroy part of it isntead of just moving it.

 

[destrukt]

if they are so worried about pings in dm because of the physics, why don't they do what they did in cs:s, disable htem ?

your theory is very weak.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

I said that very same thing to Dr. Freeman not two days ago

@ destrukt: perhaps the MP component itself was deeply entrenched in the use of Physics (is the theory)... therefore disabling them would be counter-productive.

 

[Rubeus]

Because the DM without the physics would just be another 2 dimensional DM.

 

[Clavius]

I have played on servers where the bouncing is disabled, and ping is fine, so i tend to go with this =P

This is like the experiences I had with physics in other games, it does not cause lag or anything, however, those were never really meant to harm/kill players. It did not went much further than placing barrels in the way.
I have no idea (and I doubt anyone else on this board has) how much more processing work HL2's physics take.
The whole thing is, as far as I know the 'physics to hard for server' idea just originated from this board as a reaction to it being disabled in CSS.
I doubt this will be the cause of the missing hl2 multiplayer.
(oh, to avoid the age old "CSS is the multiplayer", I mean hl2 themed multiplayer)
But, if this should turn out to be the truth, I doubt 'someone will mod it in' is in order, this is a very complex problem that Valve could not even crack.

 

[|Jz|]

I guess that they decided to use these "bouncy" physics in CS:S to reach a higher player base, and ofcourse making it possible that the Source dedicated server does not really use a much better server than Goldsrc.

In my opinion it should be very possible for a good server with a good connection to have non-bouncy physics and still give good pings to everybody on the server (if they have broadband ofcourse).

 

[azz0r]

Yeah I said this as soon as CSS was released.

 

[thefiznut]

Yeah I said this as soon as CSS was released.

I still say you're wrong on this issue. We'll see though, once the mods start rolling in. =]

 

[ukfluke]

JZ have u played the "fixed" maps which make the physics in cs:s the same as HL2 (non-bouncy)? it lags like hell. Valve said they were looking into "other solutions" to the bouncy physics but i dont see how its possible. GL to them.

oh and i agree with the original poster. HL2 DM wiuld just be another DM no manipulator fights...whats the point?

 

[Line Bender]

I've noticed that small objects in CS:S are only calculated client-side. I was on an office server with only one other guy, and i was messing around with some bottles, knifing them so they flew across the place, and the other guy said "why are you knifing the ground"? And i said "can't you see the bottle?" and he said "no..."...

 

[azz0r]

Small objects are client side.
Large objects are server side.

Thus large objects have a force that doesnt let you touch them (or barely does) so that it doesnt have to calculate and update users of where it is after and during contact (thus using more bandwith).

 

[clarky003]

why not make a HL2 themed MP, LAN based, I cant see a problem with pings if its LAN Based.. then the physic's interaction's should all work .

 

[Homercidal]

Yeah, but how does it run over a LAN? I'm not interested in online, just gaming with buddies, drinking beer, eating pizza, trash talking all night.

EDIT: Sorry Clarky, you jumped in just ahead of me.

 

[clarky003]

use a HUB, connect your PC to the network with your mates machines, for a LAN session. The MP would kick ass,, who cares about putting it online... aslong as the manipulator and stuff works well on a LAN.

Edit:, no problem ,, it not like we knew we where pretty much going to post the same thing at the same time

 

[azz0r]

Yeah, but how does it run over a LAN? I'm not interested in online, just gaming with buddies, drinking beer, eating pizza, trash talking all night.

EDIT: Sorry Clarky, you jumped in just ahead of me.

If you wanted to run a LAN game you'd be better using cs_office_fixed and other fixed maps - ie they dont have pushes on cabinets or anything.

 

[ukfluke]

becuase about 5 people who will buy hl2 have lans in there house.

 

[clarky003]

seriously, us PC nuts must know atleast one person (friend) who has a HUB unit to create a LAN,,, then all you need to do is arrange a party, whenever , for B'day parties.. etc

cables only cost like £8, LANs are as cheap as muck, if youve all got a PC that can run HL2, all you need to do is worry about taking your PC there.

or you can just go find a LAN cafe, etc, and pitch in as a group (usually a group session booking over here costs £90 for 9 people, from 9pm, to 9 am , an all nighter )

 

[ukfluke]

i dont think valve would think its worth spending money on a lan only version.

 

[Homercidal]

If you wanted to run a LAN game you'd be better using cs_office_fixed and other fixed maps - ie they dont have pushes on cabinets or anything.

Not interested in CS:S. I may try it when HL2 arrives, but other than the SP game, the SDK is the only other thing I'm interested in right now. Gotsta haves my DM! :sniper: