Nvidia and Gabe.......

M

mcojunk

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I sent this mail to the CEO of Valve software because im a real Nvidiot who wants to play HL2 in full detail with his new Geforce 6800 ULtra from Asus :smoking: . You can read what he sent me back, its a ATI commercial. But thats my opinion.


have just one or maybe two questions about the cooperation with ATI.

1. Was it a clever move to teamup with one of the big graphics company,s?

The point of this question is, that you joint with ATI but there are fans who are real Nvidia minded. And those people gonna play Halfile2 too. Are you gonna say to those peolpe buy a ATI because those cards are a (better) choice for this game. People just won,t buy a card for one game(engine), and i,am one of those poeple.

2. What gonna be the solution for this clash of the graphic cards?

I know that Nvidia playes the same ugly game too but why must the gamer be the one who suffers. My opinion is that is the developers of games are the ones who can stop this behaviour from the ventures like Nvidia and ATI because if a developer loses a part of his fanbase his venture is in big trouble.

This is what he sent me back.


I was a long term NVIDIA fan. All of my machines had NVIDIA graphics cards for home and work back to the TNT. The last hardware survey I checked, about 70% of our users had NVIDIA hardware.

However their DX9 generation of cards were very slow running DX9 games. ATI's hardware was very fast at DX9. ATI's hardware was the best solution for performance, image quality, and functionality and not by a small amount.

Our customers win and Valve wins when there is great fast hardware out there. In the past, NVIDIA set the pace. Now it's ATI. In the future, it may be NVIDIA again or maybe Intel or maybe somebody we've never heard of.

Will we somehow unfairly disadvantage NVIDIA owners to benefit ATI? Of course not. We've spent a lot more time trying to get NVIDIA's hardware to run faster than ATI's. Will we be really clear to gamers what we think is the best current hardware out there? Of course.

Our fundamental responsibility is to the people who pay the bills - the gamers who buy our games.
 
I have an Nvidia card and its a shame that Gabe is doing this to me and "70%" of Nvidia product owners.
 
Some_God said:
I have an Nvidia card and its a shame that Gabe is doing this to me and "70%" of Nvidia product owners.
Doing what? Did you read everything he said?
 
Its not a shame its not even his fault, so you need to recheck your self. He said that Nvidia cards were not good DX9, but I know the 6800 U is a good DX9 card.
 
The problem is it's still September 29th to Valve and they've never heard of the 6800 series.
 
Some_God said:
I have an Nvidia card and its a shame that Gabe is doing this to me and "70%" of Nvidia product owners.

Doing what? Did you not read the reply? FFS. :rolleyes:
 
It's shown in numerous benchmarks that ATI cards run DX9 better than NVIDIA cards of comparable grade (you know, like FX5200/Radeon9200) Gabe has actually worked harder with NVIDIA to get theirs working - if anything, they're biasing toward NVIDIA.
 
Mr-Fusion said:
Doing what? Did you read everything he said?

Yes. To me it seem all that Gabe is trying to do is play uncle to ATI and giving them an unfair advantage to the Nvidia users. I understand he is trying to make the game faster and better but its doing that only for ATI users. He could at least make the game faster for the majority of people who have Nvidia cards.
 
Some_God said:
I have an Nvidia card and its a shame that Gabe is doing this to me and "70%" of Nvidia product owners.

it's a shame that he's doing what? actually working harder to make the nvidia dx9 cards work better?

Some_God said:
Yes. To me it seem all that Gabe is trying to do is play uncle to ATI and giving them an unfair advantage to the Nvidia users. I understand he is trying to make the game faster and better but its doing that only for ATI users. He could at least make the game faster for the majority of people who have Nvidia cards.

it's a shame that people always put the blame on gabe and his staff for HL2 having slower performance with Nvidia cards. Direct your flames at Nvidia and not at the game developers. He's gotta do what's best for their game and that's support the card that best supports the features their game utilizes.
 
Some_God said:
Yes. To me it seem all that Gabe is trying to do is play uncle to ATI and giving them an unfair advantage to the Nvidia users. I understand he is trying to make the game faster and better but its doing that only for ATI users. He could at least make the game faster for the majority of people who have Nvidia cards.

You might want to read that again cos you couldnt be more wrong.
 
Some_God said:
I have an Nvidia card and its a shame that Gabe is doing this to me and "70%" of Nvidia product owners.

Gabe is telling like it is.. if he feels ATI hardware runs better on their product then why should he lie about it? or make a deal with Nvidia instead?

could u imagine all the pple that would be angry at Valve for not telling the truth in that ATI hardware runs their product better?

i am not a fanboy of ATI or Nvidia.. u wanna know what i am a fanboy of? getting the best bang for my buck.. i am happy Gabe shared the info about ATI hardware running HL2 better because if i choose to do so, i can purchase a video card based on that one game.. and as dumb as that sounds.. there are pple out there that really only care about HL2.
 
Son_Kane said:
The problem is it's still September 29th to Valve and they've never heard of the 6800 series.

the problem is they can't rework their game every time a new generation of graphics cards are announced or the game would never come out.
 
we "win" because we have gfx cards that wont play as well as a brand new card, 75% of us...
 
I fail to see the ATI advertising in that? He's just completely right, the NVIDIA FX 5xxx sucks ass with DX9 and PS2.0, it's a fact proven by many benchmarks like Shadermark and RTHDRIBL.

I have an Nvidia card and its a shame that Gabe is doing this to me and "70%" of Nvidia product owners.

Doing what? It was Nvidia who f*cked up.

He isn't saying 'OMG ati pwns nvidea n00b lolz!!1~' he says that Nvidia might well be the faster one in the future with this NV40 line and future lines, and not Ati.
 
I guess I will never understand why people assume he's done something wrong....if certain Nvidia cards don't run dx9 very well, how is that his problem? And if ATI's cards work better, of course he would promote their use and sign a deal with them. This is a buisness first after all.

He surely knows he won't convince 70% of the video card market to buy $200-500 ATI cards JUST for HL2, that's just plain silly to believe. Even if some people DO go ATI, he would still be losing a heap of money if the rest of the people with Nvidia cards can't play the game at a high level (because surely most of that 70% won't be switching cards).
 
The problem lies within Nvidia, Gabe can't help that most of there 5xxx series cards are absolute shit for dx9...But ATi had no problem rendering it, so thus they went after ATi cards, because more could render dx9 no problem that nvidias. The only nvidias out right now that can really do dx9 correctly is the 6800 series cards. :(
 
my bad

Ok i was wrong about the commercial part sorry, but i want to know how HL2 would play on a 6800 Ultra with the new drivers of Nvidia. Maybe is that a thing for Tomshardware to test the game on the 2 different cards, a X800 and the 6800. Than we can see witch company has a the best card for this game.
 
X800's would probably still beat 6800's in hl2 benchmarks. ATi is still better with there D3D coding, but still need to work on Opengl, but its vis-versa with Nvidia, they have awesome opengl, but some things lack in d3d. Half-Life 2 is D3D btw. :)
 
The x800 series and 6800 series would probably be very comparable. The 6800 cards are truely excellent, and if you are hell bent on buying NVidia, then get one of those. The FX series is crap. It was downright bad at DX9.
 
I prefer to play without 'Max Payne' bullet time features in EVERY game..thats why I buy ATI.. Not really fond of slideshows when they eye candy's turned up!

And up until the lastest NV cards, the image quality has also been rubbish on GeForces.

The only advantage of an Nvidia card was the fact that you could plug it in, install your drivers and for the most part you'd be playing pretty soon. This isnt normally the case for ATI solutions - sometimes tweaking and tuning are required...and lots and lots of patience.

I for one am prepared to sweat and shed a little blood to get the best performance...ATI = Win IMHO
 
If ATI's hardware runs the game better, and he's doing what he can to get NVIDIA's cards to run the game just as well, where is the problem?
 
ShadowFox said:
The x800 series and 6800 series would probably be very comparable. The 6800 cards are truely excellent, and if you are hell bent on buying NVidia, then get one of those. The FX series is crap. It was downright bad at DX9.

Exactly. As if it's Gabe's fault that the FX series is starting to show it's faults. People need to face up to the fact that they bought a product that just doesn't make the cut when it comes to the next generation of gaming.
 
riTuaL said:
If ATI's hardware runs the game better, and he's doing what he can to get NVIDIA's cards to run the game just as well, where is the problem?

None that that I can see....

With the newer cards - there will only be marginal difference's anyway! barely noticeable!

The new high end cards will tear through Half Life 2 - including the new Gforces!
 
I think the problem is people are going to want to play HL2 on an FX 5x00 at 1600x1200 with max details and expect flawless performance. This isn't going to happen without a lot of work. I know it, and he knows it.
I'm hoping to run my 5900 at 800x600 max detail no AA/AF with decent framerates, once I get my mobo and CPU up-ed.

But that could just be me rambling, trying to get ATi people to stop e-murdering NVidia owners, and vice versa.
 
im getting the geforce 6800 ultra because it has support for directx9.0c and the x800xt doesnt! the 6800 U will still run hl2 at max settings and its also better forfuture games!
 
Darkknighttt said:
im getting the geforce 6800 ultra because it has support for directx9.0c and the x800xt doesnt! the 6800 U will still run hl2 at max settings and its also better forfuture games!

Why??

By the time there are any games out that support those features, it will be time for another upgrade I reckons!

PCI express anyone....
 
ACLeroK212 said:
the problem is they can't rework their game every time a new generation of graphics cards are announced or the game would never come out.
Here this is let's know what we're talking about first. First of all the 6800 does pixel shader 2.0 just fine. It just can also support 3.0 which Ati will do later. The FX series (NV3x) had pretty shotty pixel shading, unlike the 6800s (NV4x). According to Valve they are using standard DirectX paths. So originally they said it was just Nvidia's fault for sucking. Of course now Valve says it is optimized for Ati (duh) but who cares because if they do things right it'll run fine on whatever you are running. I can run UT2004 high res real smooth unlike DoD. Let's hope Source engine is more like UT2004 in performance.
 
EC said:
I think the problem is people are going to want to play HL2 on an FX 5x00 at 1600x1200 with max details and expect flawless performance. This isn't going to happen without a lot of work. I know it, and he knows it.
I'm hoping to run my 5900 at 800x600 max detail no AA/AF with decent framerates, once I get my mobo and CPU up-ed.

But that could just be me rambling, trying to get ATi people to stop e-murdering NVidia owners, and vice versa.

holy crap! an FX owner finally displaying some common sense on the topic. :cheers:
 
Darkknighttt said:
im getting the geforce 6800 ultra because it has support for directx9.0c and the x800xt doesnt! the 6800 U will still run hl2 at max settings and its also better forfuture games!

Ummm so what if the X800XT PE doesn't??? I mean really, hardly any games right now, or being made are using sm3.0 yet....Yeah it will run at max settings but the X800 cards will get better fps. Future games? Bleh I will upgrade to another card...sm2.0 will be used for another year or 2 and no "eye candy" difference between the two.
 
ACLeroK212 said:
holy crap! an Nvidia owner finally displaying some common sense on the topic. :cheers:

Oh I will be seeing how funny my FX5600XT does in HL2, this shall be funny. ;)
 
DiSTuRbEd said:
Oh I will be seeing how funny my FX5600XT does in HL2, this shall be funny. ;)

maybe i should plug in the 'ol 4mb voodoo2 and start bitching to gabe for not optimizing HL2 to run on that too so i don't feel left out either. :LOL:
 
DiSTuRbEd said:
Ummm so what if the X800XT PE doesn't??? I mean really, hardly any games right now, or being made are using sm3.0 yet....Yeah it will run at max settings but the X800 cards will get better fps. Future games? Bleh I will upgrade to another card...sm2.0 will be used for another year or 2 and no "eye candy" difference between the two.

There can be an eye candy difference, it does support more instructions, however noone believes that geforce 6800 can actually render a instruction that long with a decent framerate.

Other than that yay, 5-10 fps speed improvement. Doesn't make it bad though, The 6800 GT should be a decent card for a decent price.
 
Well Gabe made an excellent and sensible argument, and set out his point of view clearly and concisely. I honestly don't see how you can still complain after reading that, it makes perfect sense to me.

And why exactly would they choose to team up with ATI over Nvidia if it wasn't the case that ATI runs it faster, it's not like they couldn't have gone with either company...
 
ACLeroK212 said:
holy crap! an FX owner finally displaying some common sense on the topic. :cheers:


You make it sound like FX cards turn people's common sense skills into mush. ;)

Honestly, I know FX is pretty crap in DX9, etc. But that still doesn't mean that HL2 will REFUSE to play if it sees the letters "FX" anywhere on your computer. Hell, after hearing more about Gabe trying to optimize the NVidia performance, I'm feeling even better than before. Who cares if you're going to see the Strider a couple of frames before me? And, honestly, I don't really give a shit about image quality. If I can distinguish the aliens and people, and I can see the pimples on the G-Man, I'm happy.
 
EC said:
You make it sound like FX cards turn people's common sense skills into mush. ;)

that's not what i was implying.

i was refering to all the fan boys that seem to have some deep seeded hatred for gabe or valve just because they're cards don't perform as well as they believe they should. you almost never see an FX owner justifying gabe or valve's decision to shy away from the FX series.
 
I know, I was just making a joke, mostly at the ultra-fanboys that freak because they can't play as well as ATi. No harm intended at you.
 
EC said:
I know, I was just making a joke, mostly at the ultra-fanboys that freak because they can't play as well as ATi. No harm intended at you.

Ultra owners can't?!?!?!? ;)
 
I really starting to get sick of all the Nvidia owners crying about how Half-Life 2 in optimized to run with ATI. Look at all the games with the "The way it's ment to be played" Nvidia propaganda. Doom 3, Far Cry, Painkiller, Rome: Total War, Everquest 2, and a whole lot more. A lot of these games run far better with Nvidia, but I don't complain about it because there is nothing I can do. The 6800 U will run Half-Life 2 perfectly fine. As many have said before, Gabe N. is doing his best to ensure that HL2 will run well and a wide range of cards, so it isn't his fault if the card maker screws up the hardware.
 
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