Source engine's thunder stolen?

BabyHeadCrab

BabyHeadCrab

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seems as if devlopers have looked right passed Source unto UE3, i've not seen very many big name devs license source.. which is kind of sad because one of the most appealing things was going to be the engine licensees. I think this might be because Valve worries more about game products the having the biggest baddest technology right off the bat. But when I read a site like shacknews or planet unreal its always about people lincensing UE3 not source.. sure source is the older of the engines but it seem it missed it's prime by a tad :\
 
I think there's two different business models here.

Valve have an engine that they use to create kick-ass games. They also incidentally licence it out - it's not a primary revenue stream.

Epic have an engine that they use to create kick-ass games and for licensing. At $500k a pop, it's a pretty hefty revenue stream.
 
So Epic is the one makeing serious bank right? So where is Valve getting it's oodles of dollars to make new games? (after all hl2 took millions, correct?). I guess HL2 is selling well and they repackaged every form of cs/tf/hl they could.. but still compared to Epic and it's "uber lincensing" how can anyone compete :p
 
It's an interesting question. HL undoubtedly sold more than any one of the Unreal games. However, Epic have released Unreal, Unreal 2, UT, UT2003 and UT2004 in the same timeframe. They've also sold a hell of a lot of engine licences.

So, Valve have pretty much made all of their money off HL (plus expansions) and HL2. It's still a hell of a lot of money. Probably not as much as Epic, though.
 
Pi Mu Rho said:
It's an interesting question. HL undoubtedly sold more than any one of the Unreal games. However, Epic have released Unreal, Unreal 2, UT, UT2003 and UT2004 in the same timeframe. They've also sold a hell of a lot of engine licences.

So, Valve have pretty much made all of their money off HL (plus expansions) and HL2. It's still a hell of a lot of money. Probably not as much as Epic, though.
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So what do you expect to happen now?
 
I don't expect anything to happen. Valve will continue to make games, so will Epic.
 
Pi Mu Rho said:
I don't expect anything to happen. Valve will continue to make games, so will Epic.
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I know, but will Epic on the long term not grow to be the best engine-maker and control the whole market, while Valve, for example, will not be able to compete?
 
I don't think Valve is trying to compete. Valve made or modified an engine for their game. Epic make an engine for, in my opinion, a pretty basic and crappy game, for the purpose of making craploads from the engine. Valve have game making talent, Epic have engine making talent. You don't necessarily need both for a successful business model.
 
It will be interesting to see what happens to Valve and Source in the next couple of years. Will Source be upgraded to have capabilities on par with UE3?

During the development of HL2, Valve claimed that they spent so much time and resources on Source's development because they were planning on using and licensing it well into the future. It appears the licencing part of their plans may not be panning out.

Source was designed to be used with current average hardware while other developers are making games for the hardware further in the future. The UE3 is more attractive in this respect.

I think Valve has now shifted their focus to more on just making games for the current hardware by continuously upgrading Source as the average system specs advance. In regard to licensing to other developers, I think they would rather have an engine that already has the features to be used with future hardware.
 
Didn't someone post here that Source was developed with the idea that it would be easily updated via steam. I mean, its an attractive prospect for a developer on the lower rungs of the ladder, a reasonable engine now and maybe in the future, a distribution network that can bypass a large chunk of the costs and even the possibility of cutting out the publisher altogether.
 
HL undoubtedly sold more than any one of the Unreal games. However, Epic have released Unreal, Unreal 2, UT, UT2003 and UT2004 in the same timeframe. They've also sold a hell of a lot of engine licences.

So, Valve have pretty much made all of their money off HL (plus expansions) and HL2.
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So if we combine the two companies to form VaLVPic, they can make more money than Microsoft!
Sounds like a plan :p
 
Insane said:
I know, but will Epic on the long term not grow to be the best engine-maker and control the whole market, while Valve, for example, will not be able to compete?
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Absolutely not. Prior to Unreal, everyone licensed id's engines (including Valve). Now, there's more choice.

Valve are, and always will be, about making games. Whether that means using their own engine or licensing another, doesn't matter.

Something else to bear in mind - UE3 is technologically superior to Source. Why is that? Because Source works on current hardware (going all the way back to a P3 with a TNT2). UE3 is aimed at next year's hardware. It wasn't lack of ability on Valve's part - it was a conscious decision when they created the engine. As someone else has alluded to in this thread - any changes that Valve make to the engine can be rolled out easily via Steam.
 
But could Source ever be as complex as the U3 engine though, purely from a code point of view?
 
czrsink said:
But could Source ever be as complex as the U3 engine though, purely from a code point of view?
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it would involve major rewrites to the code to make it like UE3.. it can have extra features sure, but considering how long HDR is taking to put into it and sort out with just the lost coast maps. I'd not hold out for other features really.
 
The Dark Elf said:
it would involve major rewrites to the code to make it like UE3.. it can have extra features sure, but considering how long HDR is taking to put into it and sort out with just the lost coast maps. I'd not hold out for other features really.
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We have no idea how long it's taken them to implement HDR - it's not a transparent process. It's highly unlikely now that they have licensees that they'll let the engine stagnate.
 
Splinter Cell is based off the ut2k4 engine.

Nuff said.
 
Just so no one does forget,
Source was made so it's core components could be swapped out with newer components rather easy(it obvioulsy isn't a click of a button, but the concept stands).

Source can be upgraded, and it will be upgraded as it's needed to be upgraded to get what needs to be done.
 
Yeh, I've heard that this time round the code for Source is very modular, so they can rip out and replace components as and when it's required. If they've done things really well, the internal structure will be such that adding UE3-esque features won't require radical restructuring of the engine, because that might take a while. But who knows. Only those who've seen the source.
 
I've seen Source's Source......in a dream....
 
also abe basically told his artist to go all out when making the lost coast, it is gong to be as good as the artists wish to make it! and they want to make it foking amazing

so give them a chance
 
I think that it comes down to flexibility, and thats what Source/Steam are built for. Eventually UE3 Engine will begin to age, as will source, but Valve will be constantly tweaking it's engine to fit the current market, and Epic will be working on it's next engine, while Valve dominates in the mean time. So UE3 may be the standard for a year or so, but I think Valve will be the ones making some sweet bank in the time after. Either way, they're both excellent developers, and competiotion only benefeits the consumer.
 
check out the new trailer for killzone 2 at e3 2005.

u won't believe ur eyes; and the fact that hl2 was surpassed in barely a year.
 
lucidrains said:
check out the new trailer for killzone 2 at e3 2005.

u won't believe ur eyes; and the fact that hl2 was surpassed in barely a year.
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HA! If i got a penny for everytime I heard that...Oh you meant graphics wise. Well in that case that's what the majority of games are these days, a display of amazing graphics with gameplay "wacked" on.
 
Haha! Perfect timing for this thread!

I just downloaded a video of the Unreal 3 engine a couple days ago and saw something funny within the demo.

http://www.1up.com/do/download?cId=3138759

Go there and download the Demo 3, or stream it if you would like. Pretty soon into the demo, he starts moving the floppy things on the ceiling. Well, the last one he touches completely clips through the wall behind it. All this uber l33t technology and we still have big clipping problems... I love it.

Side note: I'm sure it won't be that bad once they release it but for them to show it off in this condition is really funny.
 
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