About nudity...

[Cybernoid]

I was reading this thread at the modelling forum. Ichi apparently posted a picture of a nude woman (reference for a female modelling project), but it was removed because it was deemed inappropriate. CrazyHarij commented: we have kids surfing the site.

All right: what's so terrible about nudity? At times it feels like every forum on the Internet is on a crusade againts nudity. Is it abnormal? Grotesque? Dirty? Harmful to little children? What? These mysterious "kids" or "children" surfing gaming sites are playing a game that contains things like:

• Blood, guts and internal organs flying around
• Extreme violence with firearms, explosives, knives, vehicles and whatnot
• Cursing (also a no-no practically everywhere)
• People, monsters and animals dying violently, sometimes without reason
• Random acts of violence towards random people (Vice City)

And so on.

Doom 3 is pretty extreme, Vice City is without any morals and in Half-Life you can bash scientists to death with a crowbar. Still, nudity is more horrible than all of the above combined. It's so bad that it can never be posted on web forums nor can it be displayed in games. The type of nudity is irrelevant. Be it artistic or pornographic, it's automatically evil and harmful to children (who are playing games with the above content even as I write).

In short:

• Violence of any kind towards any lifeform is fun, acceptable and innocent. Even children can participate.
• Nudity is damaging to children, immoral, unethical and disgusting.

These are probably the very same people who are againts sexual education. What if a child sees a naked person in a school book or, God forbid, on the web? Oh noes! (S)he'll be damaged for life, that's for sure...

So really, what IS the reason for all this angst againts seemingly natural things?

 

[63]

I think it was removed more for the kids' parents rather than the actual kid..

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

The fact is...Its a rule of the forum, and not really up for debate.

Different people have different morals, and ideas of what is considered appropriate.

 

[Cybernoid]

The fact is...Its a rule of the forum, and not really up for debate.

Surely there's a reasoning behind the rule? I mean, it's not like you can use a random word generator to make rules.

Different people have different morals, and ideas of what is considered appropriate.

Sure enough, but what kind of a person sees violence and murder more appropriate than nudity? I don't think such a person has possession of all his marbles. Not playing with a full deck, and so on.

 

[The Mullinator]

If you can stay out of hot water easily then you do it. Nudity is very debatable and as much as I agree with you if you can stay out of trouble by not allowing something like that on your forums and it won't have a very negative impact then you do it.

The last thing I want to see are angry parents keeping people away from this website and the internet in general because of something like this.

Nudity is slowly becoming more and more accepted in modern society, so give it time (maybe another decade or two?) and it won't even really be debatable.

 

[Sprafa]

I always wanted the Olympics to be done nude again

especially female volleyball :naughty:

 

[The Mullinator]

I always wanted the Olympics to be done nude again

especially female volleyball :naughty:

/me shutters at the thought of mens wrestling.

 

[Dedalus]

we may all be mature enough to view nudity and not get all frothy at the mouth, but i think it would be safe for legal reasons not to post such things. we all remember that phoney 'moms against videogames' website, it's people like that who will jump on any form of taboo on a games website. stuff like that could get a kid barred from surfing these forums (gives me an idea to get rid of some n00bs actually..hmm...).

anyway, similarly, i don't think it would be acceptable to post a pic of someone's severed arm or leg, it's just not tasteful on a website like this.

 

[Champ]

How about we change that rule then? There were a big warning sign, hence there shouldn't be a problem with the "wrong" people seeing it.
I see the point in not turning this into a porn infested forum, but in this particular instance I reckon it would be quite alright wouldn't it?

 

[Recoil]

Different people have different morals, and ideas of what is considered appropriate.

Exactly Over here we can't watch a movie like 'Daredevil' uncut (at least in the cinema) because of violence, in the US you won't ever see a naked breast on TV (by day)(?)

 

[Cybernoid]

we may all be mature enough to view nudity and not get all frothy at the mouth, but i think it would be safe for legal reasons not to post such things. we all remember that phoney 'moms against videogames' website, it's people like that who will jump on any form of taboo on a games website. stuff like that could get a kid barred from surfing these forums (gives me an idea to get rid of some n00bs actually..hmm...).

Legalities are not an issue, you can simply write a disclaimer in the terms of agreement. As for kids getting banned from here by their parents, that would be their own fault. No one's forcing them to look at images of girls, naked or not.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Since I'm the moderator who removed these pictures from the thread, I'm inclined to comment.

I'd like to point out the difference between something called 'real life' and 'videogames', see, when you beat a scientist to death with a crowbar in HL, a real scientist does not die. We do not allow photos of 'real life' violence on these forums either.

Oh, and sites displaying nudity must contain a disclaimer saying that there are nude images ahead, artistic or no. We are a gaming site , not a porn or 'artistic nudity' , this content is inappropriate, as deemed by us.

Your in short point is, more than a bit missing the point, this is a videogame forum, not a snuff forum ffs. We do not advocate any form of violence whatsoever, however the game we cover features simulated violence. We can not legally risk displaying nudity.

Oh, and just to back up my points: I am obviously against sex education in all forms, have never seen a woman naked, becuase I would obviously retch at the sight of her, and be unable to have intercourse.

Oh wait. :upstare:

 

[Dedalus]

Legalities are not an issue, you can simply write a disclaimer in the terms of agreement. As for kids getting banned from here by their parents, that would be their own fault. No one's forcing them to look at images of girls, naked or not.

yeah but if the kid does view it, the parent will blame hl2.net, not the kid. they'll say "halflife2.net made my child into a violent psychopath because he viewed a photo of a naked woman". legal battles ensue and hl2.net gets shut down

/nightmare situation.

i just think it's better how it is. until people evolve and stop being so anal, then yeah we can have nudity if we need it. untill then, under the rug it goes..

 

[FoB_Ed]

(by day)(?)

Or at night. When I went to mexico I was surprised they had nudity on TV during the afternoon

 

[SubKamran]

I think it was removed more for the kids' parents rather than the actual kid..

Thank you.

My comp is in a open place, anyone can glance and see it. I don't want my little bros seeing that kinda stuff till they're older Plus my parents aren't very liberal when it comes to nudity and swearing...so.

It just keeps everything friendly and a place where anyone can visit.

 

[Cybernoid]

I'd like to point out the difference between something called 'real life' and 'videogames', see, when you beat a scientist to death with a crowbar in HL, a real scientist does not die. We do not allow photos of 'real life' violence on these forums either.

It's artificial violence, but some people really are inspired to perform violent or criminal acts by games. Not many people, but still. Something being false or artificial doesn't mean that it doesn't have any effect on real things. And, nudity can't be a no-no just because it's real.

Oh, and sites displaying nudity must contain a disclaimer saying that there are nude images ahead, artistic or no. We are a gaming site , not a porn or 'artistic nudity' , this content is inappropriate, as deemed by us.

Well, you've got a few forums not related to gaming, or only indirectly related. They're full of stuff not related to gaming, yet they aren't removed. So, relation to gaming can't be a valid reason.

Your in short point is, more than a bit missing the point, this is a videogame forum, not a snuff forum ffs. We do not advocate any forum of violence whatsoever, however the game we cover features simulated violence.

I dare say that there is quite a difference between nudity and snuff.

 

[A2597]

Not to mention that this site is hosted in the USA.

And well... in a site with free access for kids, nude shots = baaaaaad.

and also, comparing real life pics to video game violence is pretty stupid. Sure you can bash a scientist to gibs in HL. But just TRY to post a real pic some something like that. Perma-ban and a report to your ISP to get you kicked off the net.

 

[Cybernoid]

yeah but if the kid does view it, the parent will blame hl2.net, not the kid. they'll say "halflife2.net made my child into a violent psychopath because he viewed a photo of a naked woman". legal battles ensue and hl2.net gets shut down

/nightmare situation.

I admit that your scenario is very plausible in America, but I'd wager that a disclaimer will keep things covered.

Also, when someone posts nudity here, it's almost certain that he will have very visible warnings (in the hopes that moderators will excuse him because he was open about it). So if you click the link, it's your own fault. Even looking at the URL will usually tell you what it contains.

 

[SubKamran]

I admit that your scenario is very plausible in America, but I'd wager that a disclaimer will keep things covered.

Also, when someone posts nudity here, it's almost certain that he will have very visible warnings (in the hopes that moderators will excuse him because he was open about it). So if you click the link, it's your own fault. Even looking at the URL will usually tell you what it contains.

I got no problems with that. As long as they aren't in the thread itself, just links :naughty:

 

[Neutrino]

The US culture (and others) have problems with nudity. I do agree that it's pretty stupid considering that violence is more tolerated than the human body, but it's not going to change.

The site has to respect these taboos. No use arguing over it.

 

[Jack_Karverboy]

I've seen some disturbing stuff on the internet that may be traumatic to little children. :O But why cant we show boobies on teh forum? :rolling:

 

[Cybernoid]

The US culture (and others) have problems with nudity. I do agree that it's pretty stupid considering that violence is more tolerated than the human body, but it's not going to change.

Well, in some cultures torture, rape and murder are acceptable but women showing any part of their bodies is not.

 

[Mattigus]

USA = Violence on TV
Europe = Sex and nudity on TV

You can replace "TV" with video games as well. Look at how Manhunt and Grand Theft Auto are being banned in certain countries, but that Singles game is well recieved.

Morality varies in different cultures, but in general, I think it still exists. Unless you live in Japan.

Japan = Violence, sex, nudity, raping, bloody, and psychologically damaging cartoons on TV (and Games, I think.)

 

[qckbeam]

I never quite understood how this place could be considered a family oriented site, and I never understood how blood and gore could be considered preferable over the image of naked male or female. If I recall correctly, on this very forum about a week ago someone made a thread called "Want to see a really nasty broken arm" that had a video inside showing a guy who breaks his arm and tries to push it back into place. It was rather graphic. Nothing happened to that thread. It wasn't locked, closed, the link wasn't removed, nothing happened. Now I understand not wanting pornography on these forums, but deleting an image that shows that naked body of a person in a tasteful way while leaving the ones showing some rather graphic material (it wasn't the only thread like that by the way, I recall another showing a man getting beat with a skateboard, and one showing a fight between some people in a hotel room) open is just plain wrong. This isn't a family site, it's obvious this place is not a family site. It isn't a site for little kids to hang out at after school. If you wanted to "protect" children from viewing anything inappropriate you'd start with threads like the ones I mentioned showing some rather graphic, real-life violence.

 

[Chris D]

Well, in some cultures torture, rape and murder are acceptable but women showing any part of their bodies is not.

Cybernoid, you seem to be missing our point. It is actually illegal for us to host or link to pornographic (whether it be sexual content or just the human form) materials due to the fact that this site caters for people of all ages. If there was a disclaimer on the forum where we're only allowed people over the age of 18 / 21 (for their respective country's laws) then there's no problem, we could do it.

However as there is no age limit here, and quite a high portion of people are under the age of 21, we cannot legally allow links to nudity.

 

[Chris D]

I never quite understood how this place could be considered a family oriented site, and I never understood how blood and gore could be considered preferable over the image of naked male or female. If I recall correctly, on this very forum about a week ago someone made a thread called "Want to see a really nasty broken arm" that had a video inside showing a guy who breaks his arm and tries to push it back into place. It was rather graphic. Nothing happened to that thread. It wasn't locked, closed, the link wasn't removed, nothing happened. Now I understand not wanting pornography on these forums, but deleting an image that shows that naked body of a person in a tasteful way while leaving the ones showing some rather graphic material (it wasn't the only thread like that by the way, I recall another showing a man getting beat with a skateboard, and one showing a fight between some people in a hotel room) open is just plain wrong. This isn't a family site, it's obvious this place is not a family site. It isn't a site for little kids to hang out at after school. If you wanted to "protect" children from viewing anything inappropriate you'd start with threads like the ones I mentioned showing some rather graphic, real-life violence.

The thing is qckbeam, it's legal for us to link to that because there are no laws concerning images of somebody breaking their arm. On the flip side of the coin, if we had received complaints from forum members saying it was graphically disturbing, we would have closed the thread. However no one asked us to.

 

[Cybernoid]

Cybernoid, you seem to be missing our point. It is actually illegal for us to host or link to pornographic (whether it be sexual content or just the human form) materials due to the fact that this site caters for people of all ages. If there was a disclaimer on the forum where we're only allowed people over the age of 18 / 21 (for their respective country's laws) then there's no problem, we could do it.

However as there is no age limit here, and quite a high portion of people are under the age of 21, we cannot legally allow links to nudity.

I don't see how that affects anything. You can simply change your site's policy. AND, if this site caters to all ages, as you say, then virtually all gaming discussion (including HL2) should be ceased. HL2 will have age restrictions, as regulated by the local law.

 

[Chris D]

I don't see how that affects anything. You can simply change your site's policy. AND, if this site caters to all ages, as you say, then virtually all gaming discussion (including HL2) should be ceased. HL2 will have age restrictions, as regulated by the local law.

Right so you expect us to a) break the law and our hosting agreement or b) put an age limit on the site? Half-Life 2 will have a teen rating.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

I don't see how that affects anything. You can simply change your site's policy. AND, if this site caters to all ages, as you say, then virtually all gaming discussion (including HL2) should be ceased. HL2 will have age restrictions, as regulated by the local law.

You also you have to remember that kids by pass things, and guess what happens when parent's see their 13 year old looking at porn on a forum? They were "supposed" to be over 18, but you can get away with that on the I-net.

 

[Cybernoid]

Right so you expect us to a) break the law and our hosting agreement or b) put an age limit on the site? Half-Life 2 will have a teen rating.

It's an age restriction. You said everyone, regardless of age, is welcome here. Seems very controversial. Is there even a law againts nudity?

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

Is there even a law againts nudity?

Yes in some countries, nude pictures of under 18 year olds is illegal.

 

[Cybernoid]

Yes in some countries, nude pictures of under 18 year olds is illegal.

But is there such a law in the country where this server resides?

Sidenote: someone said "I'm thinking you should rape her. Seriously." in a thread. That isn't illegal, immoral or anything? But nudity is?

 

[Chris D]

It's an age restriction. You said everyone, regardless of age, is welcome here. Seems very controversial. Is there even a law againts nudity?

Yes there are laws against nudity. You need to be over the age of 18 in most of Europe, and over the age of 21 in most of America to view pornography.

There's a standard disclaimer upon signing up that covers us for everything. People here are welcome who are over the age of 13. If they are under the age of 13 they require a parent's e-mail address for verification. If anyone bypasses that it's not our fault.

Regardless, there are still no laws regarding discussion about or viewing images of games with a Teen rating (which I believe is 13+ anyway) so your argument about that is irreleveant and you're just being pedantic now.

Sidenote: someone said "I'm thinking you should rape her. Seriously." in a thread. That isn't illegal, immoral or anything? But nudity is?

Of course it's illegal or immoral and if noticed by staff or reported to us then that poster would probably get banned. But that's not our responsibility if someone does that, that's the individual.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

But is there such a law in the country where this server resides?

Yes there is.

 

[Korgoth]

hmmm, suppose some one was modelling tubg... or goats... would you really want to pop into a thread and see the reference images for those models? (on a side note, they'd fit right in to D3 hehe)

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

Yes there are laws against nudity. You need to be over the age of 18 in most of Europe, and over the age of 21 in most of America to view pornography.

18 in American.

 

[Chris D]

18 in American.

I believe it's 21 in some states isn't it?

 

[CrazyHarij]

It's just an opinion I have. I wouldn't feel good about letting my future kids watch pornographic imagery and not even extremely violent movies or games, especially when it's without a purpose.

Violence without a purpose is horrible and entertainment for braindead people. Violent games often have a purpose, you have this opposing side of some sort to defeat, with violent features and events.

What is the purpose for pornography?
Well, in my dictionary it says "images with the sole purpose of causing sexual arousement".

I think it simply isn't.. good for children to see women in sexually exciting images or nudity, it doesn't build up anything good, it's for lonely adult men and not something that should be part of a kids life. They are barely sexually developed at all, it's just a "when you get older" thing. Protecting kids from this is a very basic instinct feature you have, so I doubt it's something people drag out of their asses.

I wouldn't give a shit if one of my future kids "accidently" saw a boob for instance, because overprohibiting is as bad as forcing pornography and nudity onto kids.

Believe me, I've been raised to "look away" instantly when there's nudity, this is now a pretty much traumatic problem since I don't know how to react or feel, when I see nudity or even TV commercials that play with sex and sexiness, together with a family member.

Overprohibiting causes the same kind of corrupting and uncertainity as giving unlimited access to nudity and pornography to your kids.

 

[Chris D]

Cybernoid, go to the SteamPowered forums and post what you did there. I guarentee it will be deleted for exactly the same reasons I've explained. In fact, I also guarentee that most other forums that do care about their hosting contract and/or the law, will also take the same action.

 

[Korgoth]

hmmm not sure chris d i know where i live its 18...