About the latest info in the valve info thread

ShinRa

ShinRa

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That post is by a new guy no offense, and he has absolutely no proof of anything...he just blatantly stated info with no proof whatsoever. Can we believe him? I pray he's telling the truth but to the guy who did post the 600th post could you please give some more support on your info? Thanks.
 
"Erik Johnson has assured me that the released version of HL2 will have non-death related ragdoll/animations for characters. ie if you shoot some bloke but he doesnt die, he will still react to being shot- like in farcry.

dunno if this has already been confirmed but im so happy i just thought you lot would want to know"

Posted by mr six.

There guinny, I've at least stopped posts like "which post are you talking about?" from being made. Hope this helps the topic from being diverted. :)
 
thanks pal lol, i forgot but yea thats the one.
 
its a pretty non vital thing to lie about.
 
oh youre talking about me.
yeah im new here but if you go to HLsource you can check up on me if you like, i have the same name.

what proof would you like? i wouldnt lie about it whats the point?
i got it form erik johnson, i believe him but i dont really know who he is is he hight up in the chain of command?

anyway heres the email(s)

Subject: RE: reasonable question
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:30:03 -0700
From: "Erik Johnson" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book
To: "Thomas Anderson" <sorry dont like ppl knowing it>


I saw your question on the board, but I didn't understand it really well so I had to skip it.

Can you give me a bit more detail on this one?

Erik



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Thomas Anderson [mailto:sorry dont like ppl knowing it]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:30 PM
To: Erik Johnson
Subject: reasonable question


alright... im sure youre bored of getting emails from people asking the same questions all the time, especially when youre working so hard to reach the summer release date so i'll be brief.

Will the released version of HL2 have non-death related rag-doll physics/animations for non-fatal blows and/or projectiles or "flinching" as its sometimes referred to?(like in far cry) Or will this issue be tackled in a later version post-release? Or will it never be introduced?

cheers for your time and good luck with the target release

mr.six

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Subject: RE: reasonable question
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:58:51 -0700
From: "Erik Johnson" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book
To: "Thomas Anderson" <sorry dont like ppl knowing it>


This will be sorted out before we release.




From: Thomas Anderson [mailto:sorry i dont like ppl knowing it]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 8:07 PM
To: Erik Johnson
Subject: RE: reasonable question


yeah sure:

what i mean is when you shoot someone or someTHING or lob a radiator at em or whatever, do they react if they dont die?

i.e if you shoot someone a couple of times and they dont die, will they react or just stand there as if they dont notice being shot?(as they do in the trailers as far as i can tell)
it seems a bit of a shame not to animate or rag-doll someone getting shot before carrying on with thier assault, when the game seems pretty much perfect otherwise.

just wondered if this was going to be sorted out pre or post-release...

thanks again for your time, i really appreciate it
six


(this in in the wrong order cause i couldnt be arsed to change round the Q and answer...but you get the idea)so dont worry, looks like they will sort it out!
 
Yeah, I had heard that same info before. Even if he made it up, it's true. :p

Edit: Okay, now he's got the emails up. Toldya so! :D
 
Guinny an angry Guinny today.... I PMed him so hopefully he shall put the email on for us.
 
He just said "sorted out before release". It could just mean that they would decide before release to add it later on in a patch or update.
 
lans said:
"Erik Johnson has assured me that the released version of HL2 will have non-death related ragdoll/animations for characters. ie if you shoot some bloke but he doesnt die, he will still react to being shot- like in farcry.

dunno if this has already been confirmed but im so happy i just thought you lot would want to know"

Posted by mr six.

There guinny, I've at least stopped posts like "which post are you talking about?" from being made. Hope this helps the topic from being diverted. :)
Click to expand...

What are you talking about?
 
It's not vital that you put the exact email log in your post but it is very helpful to make it more credible and helps to avoid misunderstandings due to how the information is presented. You should really include quotes of any answer you receive.
 
well whatever, interpret it as you will. i would think its pretty high on their to do list.

if i were playtesting HL2 and Gabe asked "what shall we change?" i wouldve said "shove some ragdoll or animations for living characters...when they get hit....please"
 
Direwolf said:
Thats an email message right there. :D
Click to expand...

Ah, I completely skipped past that, thought it was someone pasting older e-mails from the info thread :o
 
Uhhh, that looks like an E-Mail to me...

But what exactly do you mean? We know there are hit animations, but what is this ragdoll stuff? What would use ragdoll as a hit animation?
 
if you watch the HL2 vids, no one reacts to being hit until theyre dead. this needs to be sorted out, to me that means adding animations or ragdoll (when i say ragdoll animations i mean: if you use an animation for being shot in the arm, this means wherever you shoot at on the arm the same animation happens, if you use ragdoll; different hit points will react in differnt ways [eg shoulder, elbow hand all react in different ways])
to valve sorting it out could mean alot of things but i hope we have a similar interpretation.
 
PatPwnt said:
This is old stuff... I already knew this. Big deal.
Click to expand...

hey, if you can confirm that characters will definatley react before they actually die please do cause its still being debated.
 
PatPwnt said:
This is old stuff... I already knew this. Big deal.
Click to expand...

Actually most of us didn't know this. In the E3 2004 vid, the combine hardly flinch when they get shot (as in far cry the mercanaries actually flinch when they get shot as though they are hurt). Decals appear, but they don't act as though they have been shot but keep on shooting.

Thanks mr six, if it really means that there will be hit animations.
 
mr.six said:
if you watch the HL2 vids, no one reacts to being hit until theyre dead. this needs to be sorted out, to me that means adding animations or ragdoll (when i say ragdoll animations i mean: if you use an animation for being shot in the arm, this means wherever you shoot at on the arm the same animation happens, if you use ragdoll; different hit points will react in differnt ways [eg shoulder, elbow hand all react in different ways])
to valve sorting it out could mean alot of things but i hope we have a similar interpretation.
Click to expand...
Ummm, ragdoll isn't like a random animation tool, it gives joints physical properties.

I picture a flinch being the enemy clutching his arm, or the usual flinch with the shoulder flinging back (If shot there)
Ragdoll would just make the arm or leg go dead... that would not look good at all... Nor would it serve it's purpose.
 
oh i was under the impression that the animations in farcry were using some ragdoll... like if you shoot a hand it flings back in the other direction (when theyre still alive)... maybe i was hallucinating, ive only got the demo (it [the retail] is so badly programmed for anyone without a radeon 9800pro or up)
 
mr.six is mostly right, it's called animation blending, and is a feature of Havok 2. Sadly, the controversy was HL2 is using Havok 1, not 2. And the answers as to if this would be included were shady and uninformative. This is the best sign we've seen thus far that animation blending will be included in the game.
 
mr.six said:
...ive only got the demo (it [the retail] is so badly programmed for anyone without a radeon 9800pro or up)
Click to expand...

My brother plays it on Medium detail on everything with a Ti4200

You need to learn to use a computer.
 
iamaelephant said:
My brother plays it on Medium detail on everything with a Ti4200

You need to learn to use a computer.
Click to expand...

Don't be so harsh. Hundreds of people have performance issues in FarCry, namely because it was rushed and there are TONS of bugs.

Go visit the FarCry forums before blaming the end user immediately.. FC isn't perfect, it's FAR from it.
 
yes the thing is i have an AMD64 3400+, 1512mb mem, 7200rpm HD, and a 5600fx. now i agree that the 5600 isnt very good but i would like to play farcry without having to put up with 60fps one minute and 5fps the next... (the graphics settings make no difference, they can be on max or min and you still get problems. its either awful fps whenever it feels like it on highest settings, or massive glitching on low settings)
 
Six, you should ask a mod to edit your info thread post to include the actual emails themselves. Then people can decide for themselves what it means.
 
I guess i'm one of the lucky few to have far cry working with very few problems;
9800 pro 128mgb
amd athlon 2500+ (really clocks in at ~1800)
512 ddr ram
generic hard drive (20 gigs of space left so that's no issue)

Anyway, the only time it gets jumpy is the first time I kill someone after it loads up, otherwise after that it runs pretty smoothly.

Yeah, the 'ragdoll while still being alive' thing Six is talking about is in far cry. it's not technically ragdoll, but i think we all get what it means. if you shoot some guy in the shoulder with a shotgun blast and he doesn't die, his shoulder will be thrown back. it isn't a preset animation, it's animated real time.

I'm thinking this is where the term ragdoll is being thrown in. because it's animated in real time. at least that's why i call it that. I know ragdoll is something else, but the term fits here pretty well...

I'm sure some sort of animated impact will be included in HL2, but maybe not as dramatic as in FC. maybe there were too many bugs so they turned it off for the e3 video, and now they worked all those bugs out...who knows? Just have a little faith in the game, they've had all this extra time to add these things :P
 
There is a big difference between animation blending and keyframe blending.

Animation blending is confirmed in the game. We've even seen it: it's what is going on when characters can pay different animations in different parts of their bodies all at once, mixing it all into one animation. Hit animations could be done this way: blend a "flinch" animation into the torso while the arms still animation firing or the legs continue to run. Each animation, however, is just that: an animation. It plays out not according to physics, but according to the pre-recorded section of animation.

Keyframe blending is almost certainly not in the game in any major way (yet?). In involves mixing ragdoll/physics info into existing animations, blending them together. It can be buggy and cause all sorts of problems (like when limbs end up somewhere odd but animations still try to play: you can get clipping and all sorts of goofy problems)
 
it isn't a preset animation, it's animated real time.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that if you throw a Far Cry character into a modeling program and play back his animations, you'll see shoulder jerks and so on: pre-recorded hit animations, just a lot of them for the different body parts. I don't think the game has keyframe blending.
 
Apos: sorry dont have time, ive got exams tomorrow if people dont believe me i dont really care to be honest, i cut and pasted the emails, why would i write it all up over something as minor as this? anyway why not email him yourself, his add is on the post...

Moejoe: youre a git for being able to run farcry but your post illustrates what im goin on about very well, and as for the link: that demonstrates exactly what im talking about.
 
whats that pick of Mr. Six? It's a good drawing

I don't think it's worth disbelieving the guy he just made a bit of a nooby mistake and now he is over it, we can rest easy....jeez
 
weird that i've only just come across this thread but im glad to see valve will be sorting this issue cos it is the only thing that was bugging me about the game... that and the fact its not out yet :P :P
 
mr.six said:
Apos: sorry dont have time, ive got exams tomorrow if people dont believe me i dont really care to be honest, i cut and pasted the emails, why would i write it all up over something as minor as this? anyway why not email him yourself, his add is on the post...
Click to expand...

You have time to right me back telling me that you don't have time to PM a mod?

That makes no sense whatsoever. I'm not saying I disbelieve you, just that it would be better if the actual emails were there just like all the other emails.
 
PvtRyan said:
Yes but the thing is, Half-Life 2 doesn't use Havok 2.0, it uses a version prior to that with tonnes of custom code according to Rick Ellis.
Click to expand...

I know it doesn't, but that video was to show people what it was
 
Checked out FarCry again, and I am pretty sure there is no keyframe blending. There are several flinch animations, but none of them are physically simulated. The characters ragdoll when dead, and they don't ragdoll the way Valve claims their ragdolls work (i.e. that momentum is preserved)
 
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