Big Brother bill: game developers liable for gamers actions

[CptStern]

this is just the beginning of the end of gaming as we know it:

"House Bill 2178 proposes to hold the makers and sellers of violent video games liable if someone under 17 years old commits a crime, due in any part, to playing the game.

Supporters of the bill, like Bill Hanson with the Washington Police and Sheriff's Association, say "kids" are getting the games, and they're becoming desensitized.

"If you sit up and watch this and play these games over and over again... it seems that this is alright to walk up and hit a police officer over the head with a bat," Hanson said."


source

- been playing games for over 20 years, have never hit a police officer with a bat


this is exactly what tipper gore tried to do to the music industry, and she was partially successful ...game developers will probably self-censor because of fears of being prosecuted by laws such as this ...behold the dawn of cookie cutter "safe" gaming.

 

[Absinthe]

My violent urges aren't caused by games. They're caused by these idiots.

 

[jondy]

I say we make a video game that lets us beat these ****wads with bats

 

[Recoil]

I have nothing against bans of games like Postal or Manhunt tbh :| of course banning things isn't really the way; but I don't like things like that (unjustified torture) to be published somehow...

My violent urges aren't caused by games. They're caused by these idiots.

QFE

 

[CptStern]

blame this group and specifically Mary Lou Dickerson who brought the bill to the table

 

[Razor]

Game Retailer should be targeted for selling violent games to minors, not games developers.

 

[The Dark Elf]

this is just the beginning of the end of gaming as we know it:

"House Bill 2178 proposes to hold the makers and sellers of violent video games liable if someone under 17 years old commits a crime, due in any part, to playing the game.

Supporters of the bill, like Bill Hanson with the Washington Police and Sheriff's Association, say "kids" are getting the games, and they're becoming desensitized.

"If you sit up and watch this and play these games over and over again... it seems that this is alright to walk up and hit a police officer over the head with a bat," Hanson said."


source

- been playing games for over 20 years, have never hit a police officer with a bat


this is exactly what tipper gore tried to do to the music industry, and she was partially successful ...game developers will probably self-censor because of fears of being prosecuted by laws such as this ...behold the dawn of cookie cutter "safe" gaming.

thats just stupid, completely and utterly stupid.

 

[CptStern]

deferring blame ...dont blame the person who actually committed the crime, blame someone else!

the crowd cheers: "someone else, someone else, someone else"

 

[GhostFox]

Game Retailer should be targeted for selling violent games to minors, not games developers.

Why? If parents don't want their kids to buy a game, they should tell them not to buy it. I don't want the govt. parenting my kids for me. If I want my 15 yr old. to have GTA, and the store won't sell it to him I'll be ticked. It's none of the stores interest what games he is buying.

 

[CptStern]

wtf? so if your kid wanted bestiality pornos you'd be pissed that a retailer wouldnt sell it to him? how old are you exactly?

 

[kmack]

this is just the beginning of the end of gaming as we know it:

"House Bill 2178 proposes to hold the makers and sellers of violent video games liable if someone under 17 years old commits a crime, due in any part, to playing the game.

Supporters of the bill, like Bill Hanson with the Washington Police and Sheriff's Association, say "kids" are getting the games, and they're becoming desensitized.

"If you sit up and watch this and play these games over and over again... it seems that this is alright to walk up and hit a police officer over the head with a bat," Hanson said."


source

- been playing games for over 20 years, have never hit a police officer with a bat


this is exactly what tipper gore tried to do to the music industry, and she was partially successful ...game developers will probably self-censor because of fears of being prosecuted by laws such as this ...behold the dawn of cookie cutter "safe" gaming.

Kinda funny how this comes on the heels of the bill that limits the amount of money we as consumers can sue large corporations for (i have a post on this somewhere in here if you are interested), protecting big corporations at the same time as hindering them (figures it would be gameing :| ) is counter productive.

 

[jondy]

Why? If parents don't want their kids to buy a game, they should tell them not to buy it. I don't want the govt. parenting my kids for me. If I want my 15 yr old. to have GTA, and the store won't sell it to him I'll be ticked. It's none of the stores interest what games he is buying.

It's up to the government to decide what stuff they sell to minors. If you want your kid to have it, you buy it.

 

[Hapless]

I don't think this bill has a snowball's chance in hell. As far as blaming the criminal for the crime, Stern, what's your stance on suing gun manufacturers for a criminal misuse of guns? :E

edit: And why am I still showing a warning level when the warning was only supposed to last 30 days?

 

[GhostFox]

It's up to the government to decide what stuff they sell to minors. If you want your kid to have it, you buy it.

Controlled substances? Sure.

Video games? Give me a break. What's next, Food? Maybe I don't want my kid to have fatty foods. Is the govt. going to limit the sale of McDonalds food only to adults? After all, by your argument, I could just buy my kid McD's if I wanted him to have it.

The job of the govt. is to be so unobtrusive I can forget they exist and live my life without their interferrence.

 

[CptStern]

I don't think this bill has a snowball's chance in hell. As far as blaming the criminal for the crime, Stern, what's your stance on suing gun manufacturers for a criminal misuse of guns? :E

edit: And why am I still showing a warning level when the warning was only supposed to last 30 days?

ahh hapless, where ya been? another tour of duty?

anyways I wont go down that path cuz I wont turn this into another stern vs the "righteously right-wing" thread

 

[Bodacious]

This is a bill be proposed in Washington State, not in the US Congress. As it is now the only people who this would affect is washington stat citizens.

 

[jondy]

Heh, sucks to be them

disclaimer; I realise this bill if passed has wider reaching implications

 

[Maui]

This is a bill be proposed in Washington State, not in the US Congress. As it is now the only people who this would affect is washington stat citizens.

Valve is located in Seattle, Washington

 

[el Chi]

Controlled substances? Sure.
Video games? Give me a break. What's next, Food? Maybe I don't want my kid to have fatty foods. Is the govt. going to limit the sale of McDonalds food only to adults? After all, by your argument, I could just buy my kid McD's if I wanted him to have it.

No, that's not the same thing. If you're ok with your kid having a GTA game when they're 12, then fair enough, that's your decision as a parent. However there are many who wouldn't be ok about that and as such, there are regulations to stop them getting them without parental consent - what's unreasonable about that?
To clarify, I think this whole idea is absolute bollocks - it is not the developers' "responsibility." Although I'd rather not, I agree with Hapless in as much as gun manafacturers don't have the responsibility of what the crimes are committed - to sue them would be madness. Close them down, but don't sue them. But that's a different discussion altogether.

The job of the govt. is to be so unobtrusive I can forget they exist and live my life without their interferrence.

No it isn't. It is the government's role to make decisions of national importance on behalf of the populous. So how exactly could it not be "unobtrusive"?

 

[Absinthe]

The ESRB ratings exist for a reason. If your 12 year old son starts hurting people because of GTA, you're not in a position to sue anybody, especially if you bought the game for him.

Blaming game developers for violence is like blaming the porno industry for masturbation.

 

[GhostFox]

However there are many who wouldn't be ok about that and as such, there are regulations to stop them getting them without parental consent - what's unreasonable about that?

If as a parent I didn't want my child to have a game, I would parent him make sure he would understand he is not allowed to have it. Why does the govt. feel the need to step in and parent for me?

The reasons parents are so bad today is because they expect the govt. to do everything for them.

Would you rather have your kid:

a) Not get a game because he can't buy it

or

b) Not get a game because as his parent he respects your decision and trusts your judgement.


If you rely on a, you will never have b.

 

[Hapless]

ahh hapless, where ya been? another tour of duty?

anyways I wont go down that path cuz I wont turn this into another stern vs the "righteously right-wing" thread

I've been around. I just haven't been participating much. Couldn't resist on this one though. What was that you said again...something about sidestepping? :E :E :E

 

[Maxi]

I don't see this as a problem for europe. Most gaming companies would outsource their companies to europe, so that they aren't touchabel by american laws.

 

[CptStern]

I've been around. I just haven't been participating much. Couldn't resist on this one though. What was that you said again...something about sidestepping? :E :E :E

no sidestepping ...just trying to bring order to chaos :E

 

[Raziaar]

What a sucky ass law. Stupid lawmakers.

 

[gh0st]

Id never vote for that whore, so dont blame me or my fellow washingtonians... well, blame some of them.

 

[PvtRyan]

But they're right. I do wanna hit them with a bat, then saw them into pieces, spit and piss on them, set them on fire and then bury them in the deepest hole I can find. But only with f*cktards like this.

 

[A True Canadian]

Don't they have something like this in place for cigarette companies?

 

[burner69]

This is just another example of a society deferring blame of responsibility.

At the end of the day it's down to the parents and teachers to make sure we have a nice set of values in our head to stop us bobbing people on the head. The fact is, people are using TV and games to occupy their child because they're too busy doing other things.

If a 15 year old has been playing GTA for a while they might start thinking while it's not OK, it could be fun, because they haven't been taught otherwise.

As it stands, anybody who's played a violent game who IS over the required age of 18, must be pretty screwed in the head to go out and copy it.
So what's to blame? The games... or the screwed in the headness... lets just think... ermmm... let's hmm... er.. I ... think...erm....

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

There's these prostitutes and they're SUPER hard to kill, so I chopped her head off with a machete.

Haha anyone remember that?

Bill will flop, and if it doesn't, Washington's legislation should be shat upon.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

This bill is moronic for one pure reason: There is no way to determine if a video game influenced a crime. Such influence might not even exist.

So, basically, it's the same as the broadcast decency laws, and pornography laws. "I'll know it when I see it" is not good enough because it is far too vague. Unless they have a clear definition of what an influence entails (which they don't), they will be dishing out fines essentially at random.
And with no clear definition of how to stop influencing kids, how are games companies going to comply?

It's like making a rule that says "labels on soda containers must not cause happiness." How do you judge when someone has officially become happy? And how do you judge to what degree the label is the cause?

 

[seinfeldrules]

They should just enforce the 'M' rating better.

 

[Lemonking]

When will they get it as soon as they ban somethimg it just gets more interesting for Kids.
and parents should have responsibility not Game devs..jeez how much I hate these people

 

[GhostFox]

There's these prostitutes and they're SUPER hard to kill, so I chopped her head off with a machete.

Haha anyone remember that?

Check the sig man. I've had it ever since that video was produced.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Okay -- so, here's another thing I'll agree with Stern about. I'am not going to have my game-developers nerfed.

Its time we lead the anti-****ingwithourvideogames coalition! Storm! Storm!

 

[Calanen]

This is nutso stuff. Loony stuff. Which section of the political spectrum is to blame, I do not know. But if its the right, its loony, if its the left its loony. I want to see the gaming industry, and any celebrities who play video games to take this very seriously and fight against it. Reminds me of the trials where TIpper Gore tried to censor rock and roll music. Fortunately that ban never happened.

Hopefully this will not either.

If there is anything I can do to help - let me know. Im not an American citizen - but I am an American lawyer. So if there is any movement afoot to help stop it, let me know, and I will do what I can.

People are violent for all sorts of reasons. But I know this for a fact - there was violence, major, major violence - long before there ever were videogames. And in addition, if video games did make people violent - the mass usage of them would mean, every city in the world would be like Beirut in the 80s. Its silly stuff. And I hope it remains silly stuff.

Calanen

 

[Eg.]

listen to this,

as much as i hate this law, its really smart. its difficult for congress to ban violent video games from being made, because its gettting close to slapping down freedom of speech. then, it would take money and time to close every company down one by one. by making the compaines responsible, then the parents of the murder and victems could sue say Rock Star.

with several 20 million dollar suits being brought against them a year for every shooting, it'll fold in 2 years. this process will continue for every company that makes violent video games, thus getting rid of them, whith very little work for the poltical nannies.

 

[Calanen]

I'd still try the freedom of speech angle. Indirect means to squash free speech is still impermissible.

 

[CptStern]

listen to this,

as much as i hate this law, its really smart. its difficult for congress to ban violent video games from being made, because its gettting close to slapping down freedom of speech. then, it would take money and time to close every company down one by one. by making the compaines responsible, then the parents of the murder and victems could sue say Rock Star.

with several 20 million dollar suits being brought against them a year for every shooting, it'll fold in 2 years. this process will continue for every company that makes violent video games, thus getting rid of them, whith very little work for the poltical nannies.

ooooookay


if even one company was sued for whatever amount, it will affect the gaming industry as a whole. Developers wont take chances that they may be next on the religious/neo-conservative litigation list.

this process will continue for every company that makes violent video games, thus getting rid of them,

thus shutting down the gaming industry for good, only to be re-born as emasculated, content conscious, ultra-safe developers that will only develop games with such titles as: Doom 4: the non-violent years, or UT2005 (now featuring pillow fights!), and F.E.A.R: Friendly Encounter Assistence and Responsibility!! it'll be the golden age of gaming!

 

[jondy]

This is nutso stuff. Loony stuff. Which section of the political spectrum is to blame, I do not know. But if its the right, its loony, if its the left its loony. I want to see the gaming industry, and any celebrities who play video games to take this very seriously and fight against it. Reminds me of the trials where TIpper Gore tried to censor rock and roll music. Fortunately that ban never happened.

'nuff with the loony-isms!