Buff the Damn Engineer

[Lizardizzle]

heh

char

 

[Danimal]

This is madness, the engineer is one of the most successful classes as it is, with 3 or more on defence most teams are difficult to beat without real co-ordination (which isn't frequent on pubs).

There are plenty of sentry spots where you can put sentries which will do considerable damage but limit the damage they take. Most of these have been found now, I'm surprised that you are struggling to keep a sentry up in these locations.

I'm sure other people will agree the engineer really does hold his own, I honestly can't see the weakness you speak of.

QFFT.

 

[Great Grizzly]

I hate spies as an engineer. Even if I see them I mile away I can never seem to kill them fast enough before they start wrecking my shit.

I never have issues with demomen, mostly because the places I build make it hard or impossible for them to do damage.

 

[danil1]

When i play engineer I never leave the gun, only to grab more metal, prefrably from fallen weapons. I'll be standing behind it banging away when a spy goes sap knife so quickly that there is shit all you can do about it :/ over and over again so they gun dosnt last more then 10 mins.

since I read this I have no power to continue reading this thread.. I guess some1 already wrote what I am going to write..

you suck and you complain, better people don't complain so learn how to play. buffing the engie because some noobs can't play it well is not a good idea

 

[Gorgon]

HEY I'M DARKSIDE AND I ****ING PLAYED TFC SO MUCH I SHIT CONC JUMPS YO

also transformers

To be fair the engie is much less kickass in TF2 now than he was initially after release because people have gotten much better at fighting him. A determined demoman can wipe out an engie nest almost anywhere.

true, this is a good reason why always keep a pyro to right click at grenades or a heavy

 

[Darkside55]

Me either, I'm very interested to see what they're going to do there. It's hardly a derail to discuss it in this thread, since it's already all about the Engineer. What I really want to know is if they will just replace the weapons or if he'll get some kind of upgraded/different buildings as well or instead. What are your thoughts?

Well, I'm hoping it's not just alternative weaponry. I'd like to see some different types of buildings, but again, what could you actually give him? You know I wouldn't be surprised if the engineer update came last because Valve is probably thinking the same thing right now. What are you supposed to give a class that's basically 'complete?'

 

[Slug Advisor]

It's pretty easy to think of ideas for the Engi update, but most of them are either too samey, don't fit the class or are just badly thought out. Though I do like the idea of a Kritzkrieg-ish trade-off for the dispenser replacement - no health/ammo, but additional firepower for teammates.

 

[Darkside55]

It's pretty easy to think of ideas for the Engi update, but most of them are either too samey, don't fit the class or are just badly thought out.

It's not easy then, is it?

Though I do like the idea of a Kritzkrieg-ish trade-off for the dispenser replacement - no health/ammo, but additional firepower for teammates.

If you mean something like a dispenser giving out improved crit chances, yeah, imagine a whole bunch of reds camping a series of dispensers firing crit rockets at you right out of Attacker spawn.

This is not a good idea.

 

[Eejit]

Various wrench tradeoffs would be possible, better build speed when hitting vs repair rate or the like. A repair-shotgun which lets you repair a bit from range but does less damage to enemies. A sentrygun with increased knockback but lower damage maybe.

 

[kazsymonds]

What about letting you build 3 level 1 sentrys instead of one level 3?

Or maybe a sentry that fires only rockets and the pyro can return them if he's good enough?

I liked the idea of a grav lift someone put earlier in the thread.

 

[Stormy]

Flamer sentry?

 

[delusional]

What about letting you build 3 level 1 sentrys instead of one level 3?

This. You can either build three lvl 1 sentries, one lvl 2 and one lvl 1 sentry, or just a lvl 3 sentry.

 

[Viperidae]

What about letting you build 3 level 1 sentrys instead of one level 3?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahaahhaahahaha.

Oh god. I'm wiping tears out of my eyes.

See you on Dustbowl. You'll never leave spawn.

 

[Darkside55]

TF2: Brotherhood of Arms would originally let you have built as many SGs as you wanted, so long as you created a building called a 'power plant' that would fuel your other buildings. Think of it as building a pylon and sticking a bunch of photon cannons around it in SC.

You could also pick up and move said SGs.

I doubt Valve will look back to either of those ideas when thinking of the engy update.



Also the problem with things like, "New wrench builds faster, does less damage," or "sentry with increased knockback but less damage" is that within two days of testing everyone will come to a consensus on which is actually the better deal and will never use the other option. It basically becomes, "Which is the better tradeoff?" rather than "How can I use this in X situation, and switch to this for Y situation?"

The only unlocks that've successfully done that are the kritzkrieg and the hunter.

I mean if you have an SG that pushes people away but sacrifices damage...are you really going to take the one that deals more damage? Already the option sounds like a better deal. Furthermore, since you're an engineer, who WOULDN'T take the wrench that has quicker build speed? You would literally have to be not only retarded but forced at gunpoint to take the original wrench or repair wrench over a wrench that SPEEDS UP BUILDING TIME. Once you're entrenched who actually cares about repair rate? You can babysit an SG all day and merrily whack away at it. But build speed is crucial before setup and during the match. SG gets taken out because you couldn't repair it fast enough? BUILD ANOTHER ONE SUPER QUICK.

As for the repair-shotgun, a weapon that repairs your buildings from afar but does absolutely NO damage whatsoever would be an interesting option.

 

[kazsymonds]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahaahhaahahaha.

Oh god. I'm wiping tears out of my eyes.

See you on Dustbowl. You'll never leave spawn.

Not unless its 1 v 1, i have to be a scout and you can somehow magically conjur up all the metal to build 3 sentries in a minute...

 

[MorganFreeman911]

Yeah, but who in their right mind would play 1v1 TF2?

 

[Darkside55]

Yeah, but who in their right mind would play 1v1 TF2?

 

[Great Grizzly]

A force field generator that replaces the dispenser? Stops bullets and bombs, doesn't stop players, neither friend or foe.

Alternative: Repulser: automatically reflects bombs and missiles, doesn't stop bullets.

I like the idea of the lift, that could take place of the teleporters.


Spy detector. Alerts the team of a spy, puts an icon above the head. Does not reveal them to turrets however.

Also replaces dispenser. Reveals cloaked spies. This one is tricky because it can make spy useless for removing an entrenched engineer. (Maybe give the engineer's other counter, the demoman, an advantage if this is used?)

The turret should never be replaced.

 

[Eejit]

TF2: Brotherhood of Arms would originally let you have built as many SGs as you wanted, so long as you created a building called a 'power plant' that would fuel your other buildings. Think of it as building a pylon and sticking a bunch of photon cannons around it in SC.

You could also pick up and move said SGs.

I doubt Valve will look back to either of those ideas when thinking of the engy update.



Also the problem with things like, "New wrench builds faster, does less damage," or "sentry with increased knockback but less damage" is that within two days of testing everyone will come to a consensus on which is actually the better deal and will never use the other option. It basically becomes, "Which is the better tradeoff?" rather than "How can I use this in X situation, and switch to this for Y situation?"

The only unlocks that've successfully done that are the kritzkrieg and the hunter.

I mean if you have an SG that pushes people away but sacrifices damage...are you really going to take the one that deals more damage? Already the option sounds like a better deal. Furthermore, since you're an engineer, who WOULDN'T take the wrench that has quicker build speed? You would literally have to be not only retarded but forced at gunpoint to take the original wrench or repair wrench over a wrench that SPEEDS UP BUILDING TIME. Once you're entrenched who actually cares about repair rate? You can babysit an SG all day and merrily whack away at it. But build speed is crucial before setup and during the match. SG gets taken out because you couldn't repair it fast enough? BUILD ANOTHER ONE SUPER QUICK.

As for the repair-shotgun, a weapon that repairs your buildings from afar but does absolutely NO damage whatsoever would be an interesting option.

Well possibly there would be additional tradeoffs to get the balance right, I was just throwing some ideas out there.

If a knockback sentry is too good of an upgrade only sacrificing damage you could lower the hp or increase required metal etc. - whatever you need to balance it.
For the wrench you could maybe change the normal one to have an alt-fire which blows away nearby stickies a little like airblast, making the build-speed one seem less attractive in comparison.
I like the idea of something like an anti-grav escalator or elevator for a teleport replacement. Adding high ground advantage to your team.
For the pistol you could maybe have a tracer bullet, tags an enemy for your SG to do one massive attack at increased range. Standard downsides such as low/zero damage small clip slow reload could apply as needed, or a cooldown period where your SG can't fire afterwards.

 

[FISHY CRACKERS]

Everyone knows that the Engie mainly needs new ways to get metal, ok maybe he doesn't need to but these people are so bloody unoriginal that's basically all i see anymore, the same "Shoot and you get ammo" thing.

 

[Darkside55]

Seriously, it's not just unoriginal but again, it's one of those "this is clearly the better choice" things. I'm completely against that sort of thing. Like with Eejit's ideas, I wasn't trying to shit on him or anything, but the unlocks were supposed to be for different situations and different playstyles. If you have basically the same weapon with different pros and cons, obviously one of those weapons is going to be cast to the wayside.

Seriously if you had some kind of "Metal Sapper" gun that stole metal from your opponents, why would you pick another weapon? You get metal for shooting things. Reduced damage or not, no crit chance or not, YOU GET METAL FOR SHOOTING THINGS. That will ALWAYS be the best option for an engineer.

This is why engineer is a hard class to update for, because you have to think of it in terms of different playstyles. You've got your standard defensive engineer and the battle engineer, and between those two you've got different styles like people who babysit their SG and those who leave one up and run around the map attacking...it's one of those things where you have to take into account how people with different tactics are best going to be served with the unlocks. On top of that, how is your TEAM going to benefit from your unlocks?

Really, the best idea in this thread thus far has been the repair gun Eejit suggested, just that it shouldn't do any damage at all. And it should be like the old railgun in terms of RoF; it fires one long range shot that travels slowly, then has to reload for a second. Replaces either the pistol or the shotgun. I personally feel something like that should replace the shotgun.

 

[Viperidae]

I shudder to think what they'll do to the soldier. I just wish they would make novelty unlocks, that have really really specific uses but suck 80% of the time.

 

[Darkside55]

You know what I want for the soldier? Rockets that do no damage to you on rocket jumps. Cannot damage enemies on rjump. No crit chance. Maybe reduced damage.

 

[Viperidae]

I want his unlocks just to be more taunts. Like doing pushups. Imagine taunt skating while doing pushups. I would pay for that ability.

 

[Darkside55]

Now you've got me thinking about voice taunts, and if the soldier had an "infinite maggot" mode, where every single time you killed somebody he said "MAGGOT!"

I would never tire of that. Ever.

 

[PorkPi]

Soldier unlocks are gonna be seriously tough for Valve. Look at the steampowered forums. People pretty much cry about every class except soldier. He's very well balanced and they need to be really careful to not make upgrades. Sidegrades with unique effects are the way to go.

 

[Viperidae]

Or: Just give me some damn taunts! Yeah!

I don't have problems killing people as soldier. I just have problems properly humiliating them after repeatedly rendering their body fat into flying chunks of tallow. So far juggle-skating over their cordite-roasted remains is only half-sufficient. I demand the ability to hump the floor with pushups!

 

[Sledgehammer]

What's the deal with some of the new weapons not having bloody taunts (energy drink, for one)?

I want that pushup taunt.

 

[nurizeko]