Building myself new PC, and I was hoping for some criticisms

Stigmata

Stigmata

The Freeman
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This is the build I'm looking at so far:

Case: Full ATX Fractal Design Define XL
PSU: 750W Corsiar HX750
Mobo: Asus P8Z77-V LX or ASRock Z77 Extreme4
Cooler: Noctua NH-D14

CPU: 3.5GHz Core i7 3770k
RAM: 16GB (2x8) DDR3-1600 Crucial Ballistix 8-8-8-24
GPU: HD7970 GHz Edition 3GB
SSD: 240GB Mushkin Chronos
SND: HT OMEGA Claro Halo

Keyboard: Gigabyte Aivia Osmium
Mouse: Razer DeathAdder Black Edition 3.5G

My reasoning overall is this:

- I want to futureproof my system, and keep it quiet and cool
- hyperthreading could come in useful for streaming or something
- RAM is cheap these days
- SSDs are awesome
- pixels are also awesome
- I'm a dirty audiophile
- I want a mechanical keyboard and Cherry Red switches sound like the best
- some people said the 3.5G Deathadder had the best type of optical sensor for gaming

So, which parts are dumb and bad to get?
 
Do you want to save money? Because this build is great, the only things you could do would be to get less expensive stuff.

There is one thing... Instead of getting a sound card. Which I am a bit of an audiophile too. You could hold off and get a Home theater in a box and hook it up through HDMI. That way you get the DTS master HD real 24bit decoding, and 7.1 surround. You can also add a pair of nice 1/4inch-jack headphones to it to get the best headphone experience possible... Well... Depending on the receiver.

I'm not saying the HT won't give you overall better sound, but you said you wanted to future-proof it. Games will be in DD truehd soon enough. Most games support Dolby Digital bit-streaming already. SPDIF will do the basic DD but not the new 24bit formats.

I have this system and it is absolutely amazing. It really changed my view of digital sound. If you have the money for it I would absolutely reccomend it, though it is pricey. Onkyo has cheaper units out there that support the new formats, they just don't come with the THX cert speakers that are amazing. This isn't like most THX cert BS, this is the real deal.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120187R

But if you aren't that into speakers I would get one of these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132010

I have an altered version without the RGA, but it is still an amazing card for headphones and has 1/4 inch jacks for both output and mic input.


EDIT: I want to add that spending $95 on a cooler should never be necessary unless you are going to be doing some serious overclocking. I have a Cooler Master 212 on my i7 2600k and it keeps it nice and frosty on stock speeds.
 
I could get one of those... but mostly I just use headphones. I don't have the hardware or the proper sort of room for 7.1 (and surround-sound headphones are always pretty bad), and to be honest I've never really been super-impressed by it in different kinds of media. It tends to brings me out of it anyway because the screen is so limited in comparison :p

Plus that soundcard has an integrated headphone amplifier. I might need to get new headphones to really make use of that, but I kind of need new headphones anyway so that's fine.

I have been advised to get 4x4GB Samsung DDR3-1600 because they overclock really nicely, so I'm getting that now too.
 
Case: Full ATX Fractal Design Define XL Interesting choice. Keep in mind, this case weights 40 pounds, so don't expect to be taking it anywhere.
PSU: 750W Corsiar HX750 I wouldn't. The 750 is made by Channel Well Technology. Go for the HX650, which is a rebranded Seasonic, or get a Corsair AX750 or a Seasonic X750 (by the way, 750w is overkill).
Mobo: Asus P8Z77-V LX or ASRock Z77 Extreme4
Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 I guess? Overpriced, IMO. The 212 is still the one to beat, especially at $30. But if money is no problem, sure!

CPU: 3.5GHz Core i7 3770k Utterly pointless unless you're rendering. Just get a 3570k.
RAM: 16GB (2x8) DDR3-1600 Crucial Ballistix 8-8-8-24
GPU: HD7970 GHz Edition 3GB
SSD: 240GB Mushkin Chronos I wouldn't go with Mushkin. Either Samsung 830/840 or Intel 520.
SND: HT OMEGA Claro Halo Never heard of this brand. Could be decent. See note about audio below.

Keyboard: Gigabyte Aivia Osmium Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeh. I'll have to think/read about this one. I know or have tested pretty much every common mech keyboard, but this one came out recently. I would personally hesitate on this one.
Mouse: Razer DeathAdder Black Edition 3.5G

My reasoning overall is this:

- I want to futureproof my system, and keep it quiet and cool You'll want a fan controller, then. Such as this.
- hyperthreading could come in useful for streaming or something Meh: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/701?vs=551. Go to the bottom for game performance.
- RAM is cheap these days
- SSDs are awesome
- pixels are also awesome If you want my opinion (which nobody does), and you want a completely new experience from your computer, get a 120hz monitor.
- I'm a dirty audiophile Which headphones do you have? An important question to answer. Next time you're on mumble talk to me and Veg about your audio goals, because it's very easy to get steered in the wrong direction by hype and forums.
- I want a mechanical keyboard and Cherry Red switches sound like the best TRY THIS IDEA OUT FIRST. You could be VERY disappointed with reds.
- some people said the 3.5G Deathadder had the best type of optical sensor for gaming Hype. Pick a mouse for it's feel/buttons, don't worry about sensors or accuracy--moot issue these days.
 
Listen to viper, I think every single thing he said is worth considering.

I can personally vouch for the Cherry Red switches warning. I ordered a Reds keyboard and it went back the next day. There is no tactile feel at all, and it's really weird to type on. I wouldn't even consider it an advantage for gaming, imo. Browns seem like the best if you don't want something overly noisy. I would also recommend a Ducky :)
 
I'm good at picking out price/performance builds, but it doesn't seem like money is a factor in this build. My only recommendation would be to get a GTX 680 instead. Their driver support is quite a bit better. The AMD drivers have been an absolute nightmare for me, especially when attempting crossfire.

Their last official drivers (12.10) are bad. I've personally experienced explorer.exe crashes and blue screens while playing games. The new beta ones are okay, but they cause my cards not to be utilized 100% when playing BF3.
 
I have a 6950 and a friend with crossfired 6970s and neither of us have ever had an issue. I'm not saying no one does, but it's hardly balanced to make a recommendation like that based off personal experience. Nvidia's CUDA core architecture is also much less versatile for GPU-loaded tasks (ex: Bitcoin mining) than AMD's stream processor system.

On the subject of Razer: overpriced as fuuuuuuck. I have a Logitech G500 and I have yet to use any corded Razer (never used a wireless) that can beat it in absolute or price-relative terms. The on-the-fly mouse sensitivity is awesome for games with really high mouse sensitivity in the menu but normal in-game (STALKER does this, as does the original Halo), or when switch from gaming to web browsing and stuff since I just hit a button and instantly adjust to a more comfortable setting. I love the free-scroll for long pages when I want to skip a bunch of shit quickly. I had one for three years of constant (and abusive) gaming before the left-click sensor died and I replaced it. If I wasn't a dipshit and had kept the tag on the cord I could have returned it since they have a warranty for up to three years.
 
I have the same ASRock mobo, and the same PSU. Would recommend both of them (I don't know about the power requirements for your GPU, but if you are concerned about futureproofing I wouldn't consider 750W overkill. Just the opinion of someone new to builds though).

CPU is probably not necessary unless you frequently use some intensive programs or rendering software. I've heard good things about the aftermarket cooler you suggested, but as has been mentioned, the 212 is also a phenomenal fan for a great price. Never heard of that SSD manufacturer before, I opted to go with OCZ and it's worked great so far.

Finally, keyboards and mice are pretty subjective in terms of what is the best to get. I personally can't stand mechanical keyboards, so I went with the Logitech G110 (saved myself some money in the process too). I've kept the same Microsoft Sidewinder mouse for years and would highly recommend it, though it's size does bother my friends who have smaller hands.
 
Stigmata said:
Plus that soundcard has an integrated headphone amplifier. I might need to get new headphones to really make use of that, but I kind of need new headphones anyway so that's fine.
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Heh I thought I would at least try to get you to turn your head to surround sound. I've started re-encoding my old jazz recordings into 5.1. The science behind it is really fascinating for me at least.

I have normally gone with AKG headphones for my recording setup but I've lately been turned on to Sennheisers, both will give you really clear mids and no overdrawn bass, AKGs at least. Certain Sennheiser models are better than others, obviously.

Like Viper said though, it really comes down to what your needs and goals are... There are many different great setups out there. If you are going into the higher price range then the options become quite competitive. Whatever you do don't buy anything with some artist's name on it. I'm sure you knew that.. Though I've known fellow engineers who didn't :p
 
Viperidae said:
NOOOOOOOOOOCZ. Seriously though, they've had a bad track record for SSDs (probably one of the worst).
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From the research I have done, it's particular models that cause problems. Can only speak from the experience I have had, but the particular SSD I have seemed to have few reported problems and has been working fine since I got it. Again, I'm a pretty inexperienced rig builder so take that for what you will.

Also, what exactly is wrong with ASRock? Their mobos are fairly cheap, and have a lot of the features that one wants in a modern motherboard (only downside to the one I have is it has fewer SATA3 ports than some other models).
 
Wanted Bob said:
From the research I have done, it's particular models that cause problems. Can only speak from the experience I have had, but the particular SSD I have seemed to have few reported problems and has been working fine since I got it. Again, I'm a pretty inexperienced rig builder so take that for what you will.

Also, what exactly is wrong with ASRock? Their mobos are fairly cheap, and have a lot of the features that one wants in a modern motherboard (only downside to the one I have is it has fewer SATA3 ports than some other models).
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They're cheap for a reason. I have an ASRock mobo and my onboard sound is dead and 2-3 of my USB ports are extremely loose and 2 don't work at all. Want to know what I do to that mobo to make that stuff happen? I screw it into the case and leave it there and not touch it. I've never had this problem with any other manufacturer (ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte... to name a few.. even Biostar!)
 
Vegeta897 said:
Listen to viper, I think every single thing he said is worth considering.

I can personally vouch for the Cherry Red switches warning. I ordered a Reds keyboard and it went back the next day. There is no tactile feel at all, and it's really weird to type on. I wouldn't even consider it an advantage for gaming, imo. Browns seem like the best if you don't want something overly noisy. I would also recommend a Ducky :)
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QFT. Reds will piss you off in seconds.

Obviously you are going to game as well as type, so the browns are a good choice. They a bit pricy but it seems that's not a concern.
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop...]=&s[price_to]=&s[weight_from]=&s[weight_to]=

I would think you care about your money so I have to say that future proofing doesn't necessarily mean getting the best available stuff. Try to find some deals, and especially look at reviews. I wouldn't get that graphics card that only has 12 reviews.
 
Mini tanks for the help, guys!

I'm sure I've used a keyboard with Reds in it before. I remember there being a lot of different keyboard feels in school when I was a kid, with different sounds and tactile feedbacks, and I remember a particular feel being extremely quiet and having little tactile feedback or resistance aside from the tiniest of pressure clicks. I absolutely loved using it, I much prefer a reduced feedback set over chunkier mechanical switches. From what I've read about the Cherry MXes, that sounds like either Red or Black, and Black sounds like it would be a bit more stiff than what I'm imagining. But I will certainly have to try some out myself side by side, somehow. At the very least I'm not upgrading my keyboard/mouse until the rest of my system is in place, since what I've got still functions, so I have time to make a good informed purchase (same goes for headphones, CPU cooler, and sound card).

On the subject of Razer: I normally avoid "gamer" brands for peripherals, but I read somewhere that the DeathAdder Black 3.5G (as opposed to 3G) had the most accurate optical hardware and firmware. I've have an MX518 for over six years and while it's been great, I've noticed some quirks with how it reproduces mouse movement, notably the so-called "angle snapping" which makes it artificially easy to drag a pixel-straight line (unless I'm mixing up the 518's various quirks). Basically I just want a mouse that is extremely accurate, has at least two thumb buttons, and doesn't have a shitty scroll wheel.

The case being 40 frickin pounds is something I should have thought to check first... but I still think it's a good choice. It's reasonably priced, full ATX, has high-quality grommets for wiring/watercooling (which I'm not going to do but hey), and has noise suppression. I don't plan on moving my computer around a lot, like for LAN parties or anything like that, so mobility isn't a huge factor. Plus the eggshell/gunmetal colour scheme gives me a thousand boners. I'm also looking at the NZXT Phantom White which has a pretty neat look and a lot of nice features. Antec's newer cases (I had the P180 for a few years) seem too flashy and window-y for me (same goes for Cooler Masters), and Corsair's minimalist cases are significantly more expensive than the Fractal. And Rosewill gives me the willies for some reason regardless of what type of component I'm looking at.

Probably going to pull the trigger on the i7 and 7970 too. Normally I'd for the i5 and an Nvidia card, but meh. Money's not a huge issue with this build, and I plan on doing a few parallel tasks like streaming/streamcasting Dota 2, as well as trying some 3D modelling, so hyperthreading will help at least a tiny bit. And I'm going AMD for a few reasons. One, I don't want AMD to go bankrupt; two, good benchmark scores; three, a reputable third-party brand and cooling solution; four, good overclocking; five, good price for the performance bracket; six, huge CUDA performance lead over Nvidia. I've heard the drivers are getting much better as of late as well, and the 7970 has seen pretty good performance increases with each new revision.

I'm in Toronto right now with family, but will be home in about four hours. I'll have to come on The Veg&Viper Show for some live-action audio help (i.e. Mumble) once I'm back.
 
Stigmata said:
I'm sure I've used a keyboard with Reds in it before. I remember there being a lot of different keyboard feels in school when I was a kid, with different sounds and tactile feedbacks, and I remember a particular feel being extremely quiet and having little tactile feedback or resistance aside from the tiniest of pressure clicks.
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Um.

What.

I think you've been severely misguided.
 
? I just read a few articles on MX switches, and Blacks and Reds seem like they're exactly the type of switch I'm describing there.

http://www.daskeyboard.com/blog/?page_id=1458

Cherry Black switches were one of the first mechanical keyboard switches availble to the general public. They are linear, or non-tactile, switches as there is no loud click or bump felt when a key is depressed.
Click to expand...

Cherry Red switches are similar to the Cherry MX Blacks in that they are non-tactile. They require less force to actuate than the Cherry MX Blacks. Most people do not like these switches for typing or gaming because it is so easy to accidentally press keys and make typing errors.
Click to expand...

"the tiniest of pressure clicks" is probably something I'm mis-remembering from my childhood. That or I'm considering the actuation motion as a long, weak pressure click.
 
Well, first of all, they don't actually. Blacks and reds have zero click. There isn't even the slightest 'pressure click' that you describe.

But that's beside the point.

The assumption you've made is much more serious. What on earth makes you think any of the keyboards you used in school, as a kid, were mechanical? Let alone have cherry mx switches?
 
Vegeta897 said:
Well, first of all, they don't actually. Blacks and reds have zero click. There isn't even the slightest 'pressure click' that you describe.

But that's beside the point.

The assumption you've made is much more serious. What on earth makes you think any of the keyboards you used in school, as a kid, were mechanical? Let alone have cherry mx switches?
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Not all of them, specific ones. I know for a fact that a bunch of computers at my school had Model M keyboards, and beyond that I could always tell the difference between different keyboard feels (various schools, friends' houses, my dad's workplace, etc) despite having no knowledge of button switches or keyboards in general. Most of the keyboards I used felt like shit, just like they do now. I just remember a handful that had a really nice, quiet, smooth, non-tactile feel, and I want a keyboard like those.
 
Um, okay, so your school had model Ms. I ask again, what makes you think your school also had a variety of other mechanical keyboards, with cherry mx switches?

And I say again, reds and blacks have zero click, and you just said in your post before that you liked that quiet and very slight pressure click.
I've used plenty of non-mechanical keyboards that I would describe the way you did in that earlier post.
And by the way, those were much more quiet than my Red switches keyboard. Though results may vary with other brands. The loudness didn't come from the switch itself, but the sound of the key bottoming out.
 
Clearly you're not even reading my posts in full.

I never said the school keyboards all had Cherry Reds. I said Reds or Blacks SOUND LIKE they'd feel LIKE some SPECIFIC FEEL OF keyboard, so hey maybe you guys can give me advice. There's no need to climb all the way up my ass to tell me the fifty specific ways in which I'm wrong and should feel bad about.
 
I was going off of "I'm sure I've used a keyboard with Reds in it before." which seems highly unlikely, considering the basis for your conclusion was that you've used keyboards before that you think felt like what you imagine reds to feel like, and that I can't imagine a school buying keyboards with cherry mx red switches.

I got the impression that you thought all keyboards were mechanical, or something like that. Hence my thinking you were severely misinformed at some point.

Your additional posts cleared up the misunderstanding, but still contradict what you said before about the feel you desire. That's why I kept reiterating it.

And, I wasn't trying to be nasty. I found some entertainment in the idea that you were somehow misled so severely, so I made a big show of it... I gotta get my kicks somehow! Sorry, I didn't mean to upset you or make you feel bad.
 
Shamrock said:
Want to know what I do to that mobo to make that stuff happen? I screw it into the case and leave it there and not touch it.
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Please tell me you're not screwing it directly onto the mb tray, without standoffs.
 
Stigmata, If it's not too late and I could throw my two cents in:

I literally just built an almost IDENTICAL rig yesterday. The noctua cooler is unbelievable. I have it in an Antec 1200 v3 and it BARELY fits in the case. You have NO idea how enormous this thing really is. Does it helps with temps? Absolutely. While most reports I've read/heard have the 3770k idling at 40c and loading at 65/70c, the noctua has me idling at 25c and loading at 45c under MAX load (prime 95.) It's absolutely worth it if you have the money, but keep in mind it is literally bigger than a brick.

Other than that, I woulda went with a 680 over the 7970 but honestly, it's hardly recognizable in terms of performance. Enjoy your rig buddy.
 
Vegeta897 said:
I was going off of "I'm sure I've used a keyboard with Reds in it before." which seems highly unlikely, considering the basis for your conclusion was that you've used keyboards before that you think felt like what you imagine reds to feel like, and that I can't imagine a school buying keyboards with cherry mx red switches.

I got the impression that you thought all keyboards were mechanical, or something like that. Hence my thinking you were severely misinformed at some point.

Your additional posts cleared up the misunderstanding, but still contradict what you said before about the feel you desire. That's why I kept reiterating it.

And, I wasn't trying to be nasty. I found some entertainment in the idea that you were somehow misled so severely, so I made a big show of it... I gotta get my kicks somehow! Sorry, I didn't mean to upset you or make you feel bad.
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Nah it's okay, I was kicking myself on the bus ride back home about blowing up like that since it was obviously just a misunderstanding. It all stems from my "sure" being more for dramatic effect than having any actual meaning. (I gotta get my kicks somehow :p) That's where the contradiction comes from too, because technically the basic 45g actuation - that is, the pattern of acceleration and force of your fingertip as the key begins to be pressed - is a form of tactile feedback. So I was just talking in terms of pure sensation. I did that partly for you too, because I thought you'd take issue with claims of Cherry Reds having zero feedback :V

Shin: The 1200 is a full ATX too... Are we talking millimeters of clearance? I could look up case dimensions but those would vary anyway based on shell thickness and how deep the motherboard tray is. Those temperatures sound fantastic though. 45c under max load on air cooling is ****ing cool.
 
Krynn72 said:
Please tell me you're not screwing it directly onto the mb tray, without standoffs.
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Hahahahaha. No way in hell. I learned not to do that when I built my first computer with my sister's boyfriend at the time walking me through it.
 
Stigmata said:
Shin: The 1200 is a full ATX too... Are we talking millimeters of clearance? I could look up case dimensions but those would vary anyway based on shell thickness and how deep the motherboard tray is. Those temperatures sound fantastic though. 45c under max load on air cooling is ****ing cool.
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We're talking maybe half an inch from my case window. It clears, but barely. Plus, all my ram is UNDER the cooler. It's not touching but it's still pretty close. I can upload a pic and show you tomorrow if you want. I had to cut a hole lower on the case to make room for the side fan because i couldnt close the case with the noctua and the side fan touching each other.

My motherboard is the ASUS Sabertooth z77 with the thermal armor and the noctua clears everything. It's just absolutely, positively, the biggest component in my case.
 
And just to add to the keyboard conversation, get a Saitek Eclipse II keyboard. End of story.
 
Alright so I'm mostly up and running, short an SSD, so question: if I have Steam installed from a previous Win7-32bit installation, on a partition on my mechanical drive, with a new Win7-64bit installation on my SSD, can I just run Steam.exe straight from where it is and have it work? Will reinstalling Steam into its current directory make me lose any data?

[edit] False alarm, I'm a scaredy cat B)
 
Hey Stig, sorry to piggyback on your thread but reading your last post made me ask this question to myself:

How does steam know to download the 64bit version of games you download from it? Does it know? Does it automatically make itself compatible with your hardware/software?

How you liking the new rig? And in terms of SSD - Samsung 830. Not the fastest out there, but the most reliable by a mile.
 
I haven't the foggiest, old chap! I mean I would guess that Steam just reads your Windows OS profile or whatever, but that would be less than perfectly reliable so I don't know if Steam would rely on it. Actually, come to think of it, are there any real 64-bit games on Steam?

Anyway I'll probably write a real rig review at some point, but for now I'll say this thing is blazing fast! Doesn't dip below 80fps on Dota 2 maxed at 1080p. Very happy with my purchases so far. I've ordered in a second and better SSD, the OCZ Vertex 4 in 240GB, so in the next 5 days I'll have both an OS SSD and a dedicated Steam SSD (which is on my transplanted mechanical drive right now).

The Samsung 830 looks pretty nice, but the Vertex 4 has been getting rave reviews, has great performance, and has some pretty lofty manufacturer claims for memory cell lifetime. And it's only mid-tier in price. Couldn't say no :D
 
If you run steam from a new hard drive, it'll say nothing is installed, then it'll take a minute for it to find all the files it needs, it won't actually re-download anything.
 
Update!

Steam's working fine, but more importantly: I got my Gigabyte Aivia Osmium with Cherry MX Reds. I haven't plugged it in yet, but I pressed one key and it felt like finger sex. They have the perfect amount of feedback, it's like the keyboards of yore I was talking about only with a firmer construction and a more linear response. Gonna plug this thing in now and see what happens.
 
Then stiggy slipped while attempting to type many things at once and cracked an aorta.
 
That literally comes off sounding like "get a shittier system."
 
DEATHMASTER said:
That literally comes off sounding like "get a shittier system."
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Not really. Unless you like to go for overkill, you can build an AM3+ system that will kick any game in the butt and still save you lots of money. But you must know what you're looking for.
 
save a lot on specs.
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"Don't get better stuff."

Unless you meant financially, in which case he doesn't care about money since he won the lottery.
 
Barney Fife said:
Not really. Unless you like to go for overkill, you can build an AM3+ system that will kick any game in the butt and still save you lots of money. But you must know what you're looking for.
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True, but that's for pure gaming. I want to be able to game while streamcasting at 1080p/60fps/max settings while running videos and music in the background. It's for Dota 2 reasons.
 
Stigmata said:
I want to be able to game while streamcasting at 1080p/60fps/max settings while running videos and music in the background. It's for Dota 2 reasons.
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I heard FX-8350 can also do that, and save you a $100. Matter of fact, Vishera performs just about the same sometimes better than Ivy in heavy threads. So unless you like doing benchmarks and stuff, go for AM3+ instead and save money, after all we build for gaming.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6396/the-vishera-review-amd-fx8350-fx8320-fx6300-and-fx4300-tested/9
 
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