Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime

WOOT CRACK POT THEORIES!!!!111!!111!!!!

American Imperialism: check
Voter fraud: check
Racism in voter fraud: check
911 Caused by Bush: check
FBI housed terrorists: check
Shifty eyed asian cameo: check (15 min in)

All you need is the Big Foot, and the Knights Templar. As a New Yorker I would like to say, shove off.
 
you couldnt possibly have watched it ..I'm 20 or minutes in and I've only seen 1/4 of it



god that nick cage movie is over the top
 
CptStern, I'm watching, and thats exactly what it is. See Eg's statements for a summary on this video. This is just another attempt by Conspiracy Theorists to use the weight of 9/11 to sneak propagandic messages out to people about alledged American Imperialism, voter fraud etc.

I think that movie is gonna be pretty good IMO.
Click to expand...

Thats if you believe America is an Imperialist country down to every man, woman, and child. Thats if you believe that Voter Fraud did occur. Etc. Etc.
 
and? the pnac stuff is true ..except they link it to the 9/11 conspiracy stuff

pnac does talk about invading iraq as early as 1998
 
It's interesting to say the least, but its not my basket of bread.

EDIT: It is a little cookoo. I prefer real instances, not fake ones like V for Vendetta cites and Star Wars relations.

OMG ITS TRUE BECUZ STAR WARS SAYS ITS TRUE!!1one

ZOMG VE FOR VENDETTA!!1 ITS REAL K!!1one
 
I'd like to know who compiles all this information and how and from where it is obtained.
 
ill admit, the star wars/v for vendetta bit is really irrelevant
however, it does make some good points
most of which were never addressed in the commission report
 
I mean the The Nic Cage movie.
or, do u guys its thinks its really gonna be that bad?
 
have you watched many movies?


from wikipedia on Melodrama:

[Issues] melodrama is a subspecies of melodrama in which current events or politics are given a dramatic treatment, hoping to use some recent crime or controversy as a vehicle to draw an emotional response from the viewer. The usual method is to involve lawyers, police officers, or physicians, who can then make speeches about the crime or controversy being dramatized. By this artifice, the dramatist seeks to engage the audience's recently refreshed sense of fear or moral disapproval, while simultaneously maintaining the posture that the drama so produced is timely and socially engaged.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melodrama
 
well,maybe I like to cry once in a while when I see a movie....is that a crime?
seriously, I think this movie will be pretty good,atleast imo..I guess
 
you want to cry? watch My Left Foot

wtc is far too transparent for me ..it's like a propaganda piece they often show during wartime to distract citizens from the horrors of war ...oh wait
 
CptStern said:
you want to cry? watch My Left Foot

wtc is far too transparent for me ..it's like a propaganda piece they often show during wartime to distract citizens from the horrors of war ...oh wait
Click to expand...


this movie isnt funded by the Goverment is it?:|
 
Spicy Tuna said:
or, do u guys its thinks its really gonna be that bad?
Click to expand...
Simply? Yes.
Crying in a movie is fine - as long as yoiu're supposed to cry in it ;)
It shows that the writers, actors and director have done their job properly and created enjoyable characters that one can empathise with.

That film, on the other hand, looks like two-dimensional, sappy dross.
If you personally like it, then fair play to you; there's no accounting for taste. Personally, I'd place good money on the film making me feeling physically unwell.
It looks so saccharine it'd give whole audiences diabetes, simply through watching.
Ugh.

/Film fascist.

Spicy Tuna said:
this movie iesnt funded by the Goverment is it?:|
Click to expand...
Maybe not, but that doesn't stop it from being propagandist.
 
Spicy Tuna said:
this movie isnt funded by the Goverment is it?:|
Click to expand...


it doesnt have to be ..hollywood is always behind the war effort, through every single war in broadcast history

from bob hope to bugs bunny selling warbonds to propaganda films ..hollywood has always lent a hand ..hollywood is run by big business, not by creative people
 
"Yay big business! Boo creativity!"

That would be the doctrine of LucasArts for the last half decade. At least.
 
I wouldn't go that far. Flight 93 was by all accounts a mature, intelligent movie.

I blame Oliver Stone for this travesty.
 
Mechagodzilla said:
Great. Loose Change 3.

Stop posting videos. Start posting scientific papers.
Click to expand...

You can't ask a poor man to hand over a million dollars on the spot.

Give them time to accept reality. Let it sink in and one day it will dawn on them.
 
Glirk Dient said:
You can't ask a poor man to hand over a million dollars on the spot.

Give them time to accept reality. Let it sink in and one day it will dawn on them.
Click to expand...
But what if you are wrong? What if it is reality that will do the sinking and dawn brings a truth the supposedly rich man didn't expect?

I think that unless there is a strong counter of official, honest statements by government and high ranking officials of state establishments, the only thing time will bring is unsettlement.

You may not see the problem, but more and more people are accepting this alternate side of the story, and you can sit here and think time alleviates these wounds?

I myself still sit on the fence, wondering how exactly these people find this information about these people's personal lives. Maybe it came direct from the source, maybe they made it up. I don't know. What I do know is that unless someone important comes forth with a revelation of facts and data, proving without a doubt that our government had no part in allowing this incident, nothing will ever be settled.
The population of poor to use your ananlogy will continue to rise and the "wealthy" shall continue to sit unaware of the impending media revolution, and be crushed as they saw no reason to step forward.
You think the facts are out there. So do I. Are they true representations of what happened? Sure, we all saw what happened. Do I believe they tell the whole story? Of that I cannot be sure...
 
_Z_Ryuken said:
But what if you are wrong? What if it is reality that will do the sinking and dawn brings a truth the supposedly rich man didn't expect?

I think that unless there is a strong counter of official, honest statements by government and high ranking officials of state establishments, the only thing time will bring is unsettlement.

You may not see the problem, but more and more people are accepting this alternate side of the story, and you can sit here and think time alleviates these wounds?

I myself still sit on the fence, wondering how exactly these people find this information about these people's personal lives. Maybe it came direct from the source, maybe they made it up. I don't know. What I do know is that unless someone important comes forth with a revelation of facts and data, proving without a doubt that our government had no part in allowing this incident, nothing will ever be settled.
The population of poor to use your ananlogy will continue to rise and the "wealthy" shall continue to sit unaware of the impending media revolution, and be crushed as they saw no reason to step forward.
You think the facts are out there. So do I. Are they true representations of what happened? Sure, we all saw what happened. Do I believe they tell the whole story? Of that I cannot be sure...
Click to expand...

Uhh...I can understand being skeptical....but when there is a complete lack of evidence to back up your claims and in fact theres mountains of facts, science and eyewitnes reports that are proving you wrong, well it's a little one sided. The conpiracy theory is less a theory and more a religion.
 
Glirk Dient said:
Uhh...I can understand being skeptical....but when there is a complete lack of evidence to back up your claims and in fact theres mountains of facts, science and eyewitnes reports that are proving you wrong, well it's a little one sided. The conpiracy theory is less a theory and more a religion.
Click to expand...
If your evidence is so strong and impenetrable why is it failing? Why do the skeptic masses grow at an increasing rate?
 
_Z_Ryuken said:
If your evidence is so strong and impenetrable why is it failing? Why do the skeptic masses grow at an increasing rate?
Click to expand...

Increased rate of idiots doesn't prove anything.

My evidence is failing? Please bring up evidence that proves anything other than the common story.
 
Glirk Dient said:
Increased rate of idiots doesn't prove anything.

My evidence is failing? Please bring up evidence that proves anything other than the common story.
Click to expand...
Rising rate of skeptics proves the official story is not doing it's job. ;)
This is the simplest way I can put it.

The official story just isn't holding up, and the fact this issue keeps coming up over and over is proof alone of that fact.

I don't care about alternate proof of an alternate story, because I do not believe it is really an alternate story, but a different angle of the same one. ;)
 
_Z_Ryuken said:
Rising rate of skeptics proves the official story is not doing it's job. ;)
This is the simplest way I can put it.

The official story just isn't holding up, and the fact this issue keeps coming up over and over is proof alone of that fact.

I don't care about alternate proof of an alternate story, because I do not believe it is really an alternate story, but a different angle of the same one. ;)
Click to expand...

The official story isn't holding up? You gotta be joking me. There is no evidence against the official story. NONE

To claim something doesn't hold up you need to present evidence to support that. Otherwise we could go around saying the WTCs were brought down by homosexual aliens here to destroy our gigantic twin phalus monument.
 
Glirk Dient said:
The official story isn't holding up? You gotta be joking me. There is no evidence against the official story. NONE

To claim something doesn't hold up you need to present evidence to support that. Otherwise we could go around saying the WTCs were brought down by homosexual aliens here to destroy our gigantic twin phalus monument.
Click to expand...
Yes we could say that, but who would believe it? Be credible, that is not.

I am merely stating what is painfully obvious to everyone, even you and those sharing your belief.

Evidence or not, the official story does not suffice, and this is regardless of what I think. People do not believe it, because they do not trust those presenting it. ;)

What I am asking for is a credible presenter.
 
Q:
"If your evidence is so strong and impenetrable why is it failing? Why do the skeptic masses grow at an increasing rate?"

A:
"The conspiracy theory is less a theory and more a religion."

There are bigfoot, aliens, reptilians, ghosts etc.
Millions - possibly billions - believe in all of them.
Citing "increasing numbers" is an APPEAL TO AUTHORITY.
It is a logical fallacy, and is therefore no excuse to keep spreading these claims.


How can you say "the official story isn't holding up" when no-one has ever managed to properly prove the slightest conspiracy claim.


www.911myths.com
^
I have read every single article on this website.
-It covers every claim that I have ever seen made.
-It is the most concise set of refutations on the internet and they all hold up.
-It is not difficult to read or to understand.

Like I said, I have read every article on the website.
If you insist on continuing to make these claims, there is no excuse not to do the same.

What good is it to disprove what we say when you don't even understand what it is we are saying?

If you don't read the link, it's all a STRAW MAN.
If you believe something, it is listed there. It would save so much time, and it might just save your credibility.
 
_Z_Ryuken said:
Yes we could say that, but who would believe it? Be credible, that is not.

I am merely stating what is painfully obvious to everyone, even you and those sharing your belief.

Evidence or not, the official story does not suffice, and this is regardless of what I think. People do not believe it, because they do not trust those presenting it. ;)

What I am asking for is a credible presenter.
Click to expand...

My theory has as much credibility as any of the others.

It doesn't matter who is presenting the information. That doesn't make it valid or not.
 
Glirk Dient said:
My theory has as much credibility as any of the others.

It doesn't matter who is presenting the information. That doesn't make it valid or not.
Click to expand...
You are correct, but if the government does not get it's ass in gear and address this issue personally, they will be forever criticized.
One of two things is ultimately possible.
One, they are lazy and just don't care, sitting in their plush armchairs, trying to find a way to screw Alaskans out of our oil,
Two, they have something to hide.

(Ok the oil bit is unrelated but it is eating me from the inside out...)
 
_Z_Ryuken said:
You are correct, but if the government does not get it's ass in gear and address this issue personally, they will be forever criticized.
One of two things is ultimately possible.
One, they are lazy and just don't care, sitting in their plush armchairs, trying to find a way to screw Alaskans out of our oil,
Two, they have something to hide.

(Ok the oil bit is unrelated but it is eating me from the inside out...)
Click to expand...

What do you want them to do? What would fix this?

Also...is it worth catering to the conspiracy theorists? Pretty much nothing will make them happy. There are mountains of evidence supporting the actual events. Would it be worth it to cater any more to the conspiracy theorists? They clearly won't give up so why waste effort trying? They aren't posing any serious threat they are just an annoyance.
 
Verbal debunking of everything in that video would be nice. :/
It's the people's nation after all. We don't need credibility on a large scale, the gov't does.
Yes there is a great deal of evidence supporting the events we were able to witness. A plane of some sort flew into the Pntagon, other places.
But what we can't see is agenda. There is no smoldering wreckage of someone's intent to be found under the rubble of lies.

According to that video the FBI seemed to be in league with at least a few suicide pilots. Either the lone FBI agent and video narrator are lieing, or the FBI is.
I would like to see an official statement from someone with greater authority than a single agent either deny or admit the claims made. Simple enough.
 
_Z_Ryuken said:
Verbal debunking of everything in that video would be nice. :/
It's the people's nation after all. We don't need credibility on a large scale, the gov't does.
Yes there is a great deal of evidence supporting the events we were able to witness. A plane of some sort flew into the Pntagon, other places.
But what we can't see is agenda. There is no smoldering wreckage of someone's intent to be found under the rubble of lies.

According to that video the FBI seemed to be in league with at least a few suicide pilots. Either the lone FBI agent and video narrator are lieing, or the FBI is.
I would like to see an official statement from someone with greater authority than a single agent either deny or admit the claims made. Simple enough.
Click to expand...

The burden of proof is on the people making the claims. You claim the true story isn't what happened. You find evidence to support your claims, you don't make the other person prove their story beyond any shred of doubt to even the smallest straw man.

BTW here are a couple good reads. If you have doubts about the original story, read these.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y
www.911myths.com
 
Glirk Dient said:
The burden of proof is on the people making the claims. You claim the true story isn't what happened. You find evidence to support your claims, you don't make the other person prove their story beyond any shred of doubt to even the smallest straw man.
Click to expand...
What more proof do you need than an active FBI agent saying his superiors impeded his investigation into Mousoui-whatever, pre 9-11?

In that scenario I think the FBI should take it upon themselves to clear up slander of their honor. :S

Again it comes down to the same thing. They won't take the time to comment because they don't give a shit about us or what we as an entire nation think of them, an organization who's purpose is to serve us, or they have something to hide and are trying to pretend us into leaving them alone.

Did you watch the video? Granted it was poorly executed with pointless video clips and music, but did you watch it and form an opinion on the claims?
 
_Z_Ryuken said:
What more proof do you need than an active FBI agent saying his superiors impeded his investigation into Mousoui-whatever, pre 9-11?

In that scenario I think the FBI should take it upon themselves to clear up slander of their honor. :S

Again it comes down to the same thing. They won't take the time to comment because they don't give a shit about us or what we as an entire nation think of them, an organization who's purpose is to serve us, or they have something to hide and are trying to pretend us into leaving them alone.

Did you watch the video? Granted it was poorly executed with pointless video clips and music, but did you watch it and form an opinion on the claims?
Click to expand...

Alright fellas...we have mountains and mountains of evidence to support the original story...what have you guys found so far?

Well...we have an FBI agent saying his superiors impeded his investigation into Mousoui trial.

Wait...what? trial? Aren't we talking about 9/11 conspiracy theories? We aren't talking about the trial and that isn't even proof. If I said A donkey shot laser beams out of his ass and took the towers out that is just as credible.

Seriously...you need to learn what evidence is.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=evidence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_(law)

You have again posted a logical falacy as evidence.
 
Glirk Dient said:
...
Well...we have an FBI agent saying his superiors impeded his investigation into Mousoui trial.

Wait...what? trial? Aren't we talking about 9/11 conspiracy theories? We aren't talking about the trial and that isn't even proof. If I said A donkey shot laser beams out of his ass and took the towers out that is just as credible.
...
You have again posted a logical falacy as evidence.
Click to expand...
Negative. Moussouihgffa dude was (supposedly) under this agent guy's scrutiny as a potential terrorist before 9-11.
This guy's superiors said to leave Moussoui and other alone.

Then what happens? 9-11 happens and now Moussouioiu is having a trial for being involved.
If this is all fact, then logic tells us the FBI is/was a cog in the clockwork execution of 9-11.

Now if you were the FBI, and this agent guy comes out saying you did this, would you deny it, or ignore it?
Hm?

There's no fallacy here. One man (the agent, not me, get it straight) is attempting to present his evidence, his first hand experience, to everyone and is being pretty much ignored. You want hard physical data this happened? Hard evidence he was subordinated into allowing Mouusasiui to get away?

Don't you think if the FBI really was involved in this way they would destroy that evidence?
Think about it.
There are still only two possible true situations, and neither have an advantage of credibility over the other.
 
_Z_Ryuken said:
Negative. Moussouihgffa dude was (supposedly) under this agent guy's scrutiny as a potential terrorist before 9-11.
This guy's superiors said to leave Moussoui and other alone.

Then what happens? 9-11 happens and now Moussouioiu is having a trial for being involved.
If this is all fact, then logic tells us the FBI is/was a cog in the clockwork execution of 9-11.

Now if you were the FBI, and this agent guy comes out saying you did this, would you deny it, or ignore it?
Hm?

There's no fallacy here. One man (the agent, not me, get it straight) is attempting to present his evidence, his first hand experience, to everyone and is being pretty much ignored. You want hard physical data this happened? Hard evidence he was subordinated into allowing Mouusasiui to get away?

Don't you think if the FBI really was involved in this way they would destroy that evidence?
Think about it.
There are still only two possible true situations, and neither have an advantage of credibility over the other.
Click to expand...

It is still a falacy. You are now arguing from ignorance. We don't know why they impeded his investigation so your saying that is evidence for another scenario.

Again with the logical fallacies...
 
_Z_Ryuken said:
This guy's superiors said to leave Moussoui and other alone.

Then what happens? 9-11 happens and now Moussouioiu is having a trial for being involved.

If this is all fact, then logic tells us the FBI is/was a cog in the clockwork execution of 9-11.
Click to expand...

So, to recap, your logical argument is this:

A) FBI surveillance of a terrorist suspect ends.

B) At a later time, the terrorist attempts an attack on america.

Therefore, given A and B: The entire 9/11 attack and more were all orchestrated by the United States government.


So, you claim this is ENTIRELY VALID, without ANY LOGICAL FLAWS AT ALL?
 
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