Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime

[jverne]

This is called paranoia.
You have no reason to believe that NIST intentionally cover up errors.
Their website contains every calculation they have made. Show me one error.

When you are at the supermarket, do you assume you got the wrong change?
Then, when you check and find that the change is correct, do you become terrified that 1000000 years from now it will be discovered that the cashier was wrong by .0001 cents?

When you drive a car, do you become terrified that 10000 years from now, the gas meter will be off by .000001 millilitres?

Do you then become terrified that cars and supermarkets don't exist?



My "equation" is that there is a difference between a logical fallacy and and a logical conclusion.

Do you know the difference between a logical fallacy and a logical conclusion?



This is incorrect. The claim that "nobody can be sure of anything" is illogical. The claim that logic is just a guess is unfounded.
Likewise, there is no such thing as an illogical fact.

Please try again.

sorry pal but even you don't know what could that mistake mean. and those are lame examples.

why is that clame illogical?

"Likewise, there is no such thing as an illogical fact."

you just made

"
12: Perfect Solution Fallacy:
Rejecting a solution because it doesn't solve every part of a problem is not a valid position."

and

"7a: Enthymeme:
An argument is invalid when a key element of the argument is an unstated assumption."

so you made a logical fallacy.

i think that those examples speak quite for thesmelves, do i still need to answer your question?!

if you're looking for mistakes in the report, just look at any calculation with the numbers i just said.

i agree that the NIST report is currently the most acurate in terms of engineering. but even that has unavoidable mistakes.
i'm not saying they are totaly wrong but, that nowdays nobody can be 100% sure of anything!


ps: mecha you didn't answer my questions, so im concluding that you are a partial moron! by your standards of course.

 

[baxter]

You just seem to be blowing off steam in every 9-11 thread and I don't need your uppity condescending remarks.

*fun fun fun*

Of course you don’t need my condescending and uppity remarks in the same token I do not need your patronisation so we should agree to stop with these types of remarks and concentrate on the debate at hand.

You wonder why I only debate the 9/11 topic here, actually I debate this topic on many forums. I have taken the time to genuinely research these events. Why would I do that? Simple, because a voice as to given to the very real objection there is to such claims.

These guys have their very own forums where they debate their claims, all agreeing with one another, all dismissing any form of logic, common sense and proven fact. Believe me I know I’ve been there and tried to debate with them. They are not interested at all in any of it; their only agenda is to promote their own version of the truth. Through the insults I get, and there are many, ranging from being labelled a troll,a thicket,blind to a CIA plant they all react the same way you have. They simply forget all their theories and ultimately their mask of self appointed researchers and seasoned investigators falls away and they finally expose themselves for what they are. That being individuals who couldn’t care less about the truth.

It got pointed out to me "what do I know after all there is now 80,000 truth seekers we can’t all are wrong".
Wow, 80,000 that’s mighty impressive eh?
Not really when you consider the population of the USA alone is close to 300 million(source). Giving a total of 0.027% of the population supporting them. Not bad after five years eh?
At this rate after Jverns sixty years they will have a whole 0.3% of the populations support, wow.
If I was to punch in the population of the entire planet, this figure would be even less.

Yet they believe they have this massive following, they believe their own propaganda and wonder why guys like me oppose them.The figures speak from themselves, believe the conspiracies if you wish,it's really not my problem.
I occasionally get my pennies worth in and return to reality afterwards. A reality not involving bombs, missiles and the most stupid conspiracy theory ever.

 

[Ludah]

i agree that the NIST report is currently the most acurate in terms of engineering. but even that has unavoidable mistakes.
i'm not saying they are totaly wrong but, that nowdays nobody can be 100% sure of anything!

Cuckoo! Cuckoo!

The white van is coming to snatch you away! Gravity is a myth purported by tyrannical scientists trying to keep is from flying, and the WTC's infrastructure was made out of chocolate!

SCALAR WAVES!!!11!!!!11!

 

[Solaris]

Cuckoo! Cuckoo!

The white van is coming to snatch you away! Gravity is a myth purported by tyrannical scientists trying to keep is from flying, and the WTC's infrastructure was made out of chocolate!

SCALAR WAVES!!!11!!!!11!

gtfo.

 

[Ludah]

gtfo.

You say this, but deep down inside you know that what he posts is akin to crazy-talk.

While I do believe there is some worth in the idea that one can never be literally, objectively, and absolutely 100% certain about anything, reasoning skills allow us to discern between which possibilities are credible and those that are worthless.

Thus far, all credible evidence and argumentation points to there not being anything remotely like a conspiracy behind the 9/11 attacks.
Hmm... Actually, that's somewhat of an innacurate statement.
The issue is that those who do attribute any credibility to such a conspiracy theory have utterly failed to supply any rational and logical argumentation for it.
The best that jverne can come up with is "Oh, but there's still the possibility!" Well, there's also the possibility that gravity will reverse itself tomorrow morning and I'll go spiralling into the sun upon leaving my house, but I pay no heed to such hypothetical nonsense.

The "Burden of Proof" concept exists for a reason, and if you can't meet its expectations (ie. credible sources with credible evidence, sound and logical argumentation, and even peer-reviewing), then you are in no position to expect people to treat you seriously, let alone mock and insult those who have pointed your inability to make a worthwhile case.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

[etc.]

Mathematics are not an "unstated assumption" as the minute estimations that take place during any mathematical calculation are always known to be implicit.

Likewise, there is no perfect solution fallacy in rejecting your claims. I have, at no point, demanded 100% accuracy.
Please stop cutting and pasting things you do not understand.

An "illogical fact" would constitute a paradox.
Facts are, by definition, supported by research and logical conclusions.

Do you know the difference between a logical conclusion and a logical fallacy?


I don't think you understand math.

7 divided by 11, to use your example calculated to ten decimal points, is 0.6363636364

0.6363636364 x 50 is 31.81818182

Now let's take 7/11 and calculate it to 60 decimal points. This is more accuracy than many scientists are likely to use.

0.636363636363636363636363636363636363636363636363636363636364

x50 is

31.8181818181818181818181818181818181818181818181818181818182

If this number were in milimeters, you would need an electron microscope to see with this degree of accuracy.

You'll notice that the answer is still 31.8181818...

No matter how you calculate 50(7/11), as long as you have a two decimal's worth of minimum accuracy, the answer can never be less than 31.81
It can also never be more than 31.82.

Even a billion years from now the answer to that equation cannot change.
It will always be within those two numbers, the difference too small to be measured with a ruler.

Of course, scientists work with far more accurate calculations than that.


Also, what questions?


Ludah is right.

 

[ríomhaire]

but yes i'm exagerating, thing is that there is a logical flaw, because if he would stick with logic he wouldn't ignore the 0.001% mistake, because it is logical that the mistake is the key to everything!

It's logical that 0.001% outweighs 99.99%?

do you know that every calculation that uses non whole (1,2-5,..) or natural (1,2,3,4,5,..) numbers has a mistake (type 17/11 in your calculator). do you know how do mathematicians deal with it....they guess the mistake, and this gues has also mistakes and so forth! engeneers estimate the mistake, humman intelligence even with current computers isn't able to calculate the mistake exactly.
so currently there's a flaw in math, it's very miniature but it's still there!

Please explain what you mean my this, I don't fully understand. 2+2=4, is there a mistake there? I typed 17/11 into my calculator, it came up as 1/6/11 which I think is acurate. When I hit Ab/c it changes to 1.545454545, I can't tell if that's correct or not, is it?

 

[jverne]

It's logical that 0.001% outweighs 99.99%?



Please explain what you mean my this, I don't fully understand. 2+2=4, is there a mistake there? I typed 17/11 into my calculator, it came up as 1/6/11 which I think is acurate. When I hit Ab/c it changes to 1.545454545, I can't tell if that's correct or not, is it?

no use none whole and natural numbers.

like 17.00878/11.34345

or better yet, use taylors method to aproximate "root 3.11"

 

[ríomhaire]

no use none whole and natural numbers.

like 17.00878/11.34345

2.3 x 1.5 = 3.
Er, I still don't understand what the hell you're on about.

or better yet, use taylors method to aproximate "root 3.11"

Which is? My calculator says 1.763519209 is the root but what is Taylor's Method?

 

[Mechagodzilla]

The point he's trying to say is basically that until we can calculate the entirety of Pi (or any irrational number)... all mathematics are "flawed".

Then, since all math is "flawed" because it can't calculate infinity, he is basically saying that all rational thought is meaningless.

Then, since rational thought is meaningless, every fanciful thing he can imagine in his head is equally real as an apple or the force of gravity.

This is, of course, a delusion.

 

[kirovman]

Of course you could claim gravity doesn't exist, because of error margins in the calculation in the gravitational constant.

Although all the evidence would be strongly against you, and everyone would label you as a fool.

 

[Sebastian]

clearly turkey tastes better than chicken, but who am I to pass judgement?

 

[ríomhaire]

The point he's trying to say is basically that until we can calculate the entirety of Pi (or any irrational number)... all mathematics are "flawed".

Then, since all math is "flawed" because it can't calculate infinity, he is basically saying that all rational thought is meaningless.

Then, since rational thought is meaningless, every fanciful thing he can imagine in his head is equally real as an apple or the force of gravity.

This is, of course, a delusion.

How can you calculate infinity? That's just stupid. Infinity isn't a fecking number.

 

[jverne]

i really didn't want to end up talking about math and infinity.


look...all i was trying to say was that i do not ENTIRELY, belive every aspect of the official story.

i don't want to talk about it anymore, belive whatever you want to belive!


oh... just one more thing:

didn't the iraqi war once sarted due to "credible" evidence brought forward by "credible" people (CIA, NSA, FBI)?

enjoy your victory mecha...:thumbs:

 

[bigburpco]

You is lost the argument.