Flaw in game physics

[Antic2]

Just a minor point, but interesting.

At the beginning of the game, there's a playground... obviously there to "showcase" the whizz-bang physics engine.

There's a see-saw and 2 bricks. Put one brick on one end of the see-saw, and hold the other in your hand. Now get on the other side of the see-saw. You sink, because you weigh more than the brick you put there.

Now move towards the centre of the see-saw, so it balances out and stays level. Then drop the brick.

Nothing happens. That is, the weight of the brick you're holding is NOT added to your own weight.

Something they might think of fixing up in the future. Otherwise, yeah, the physics is interesting, but doesn't seem to add much to the gameplay yet. They obviously wanted us to go "wow, look at the swing move!"

Maybe if they had released the game when they originally said they would, like a year ago, I would have said wow... and after spending days fixing the crashing problem, I'm in no mood to congratulate them, I just want to play the frikkin game.

Physics is one thing... but you can't even do simple things like climb a fence, hang on to ledges (or the monkey bars in the playground)... you can't even jump on the swings and swing yourself... that at least would have been fun.

Another thing... it's supposed to be "immersive".. the loading times are so long that I'd rather immerse myself in a nice cup of tea while I'm waiting.

Sorry to bitch, but I paid a week ago, and only just got the crashing to stop.... by reducing the texture detail to "low"... and I have a top-end all-Intel system and an ATI 9600XT. Rather annoyed about that... maybe they should have put less effort into silly facial expressions and more into gameplay and compatability. oh, and support too... that thing that make you happy with a product.

 

[bam23]

Maybe because technically, the brick is only floating.

None of its weight is on the seesaw yet. That's what I think anyway.

 

[Antic2]

Well yeah, technically it is obviously floating, but that's not very realistic, is it? In the game, you are HOLDING it, which means you should carry the extra weight. If everything "floated" when you picked it up, there'd be no reason to stop you from picking up a truck, as it would suddenly have no weight.

[edit]While I was posting this (on my laptop), the game just crashed again on my PC... and I wasn't even doing anything!!! That's it, I'm not playing this heap of sh*t any more. Valve, if you don't fix this for everyone, I'm afraid you're going to have more enemies out there than Gordon Freeman.[/edit]

One very very EX-fan.

 

[ManHacks]

its fun to put the doll on one end of the see-saw and jump off of the ledge onto the other side, it goes flying if you hit right. :thumbs:

 

[NiteX]

The game doesnt really take that long to load at all for me. Maybe 15 seconds at the longest. One thing my cousin pointed out to me that would be so great if they put in the game is harming NPCs. You pick up a huge cinder brick chunk it at someone and they dont even budge they maybe say cut it out or something retarded like that. I dont know about you but if you threw a TV or barrel or something at me I would say a little bit more than just stop it or hey watch it. Also I noticed I got stuck on object quite a lot in the game. And in HL1 you could shoot NPCs and they would die on HL2 they bullets just dont even effect them.

 

[Jackathan]

There wasnt much need for them to factor in you holding somethign makes your weight different, so they didnt. There is no time in game where you need to hold anything to do something such as that. The physics are used in gameplay a lot... if you choose to. The gravity gun is the strongest weapon in the game if you use it right. Sure, it cant take down a strider, but it can pick up some cover for yourself as you run to get some more rockets. The physics are only useful if you make them useful.

And sorry your game crashed, but no game is perfect. You seem to be one of the few people complaining of crashes. Mine hasnt once crashed, the same for most people, otherwise there'd be more people complaining. And saying the game crashed when you werent doing anything doesnt help out any. I'm not a genius when it comes to stuff like this, so dont expect me to help you, but posting your system specs, and more details about the crash would help others to help you. if you dont do that, you're just complaining for no reason.

 

[boy*N.F.i*]

ahhhhh shuddapappa your face

 

[Sharpfish]

antic2 - I also felt dissapointed in a few areas to start with (as I have posted in enough places) I still stand by the early levels being completely deceptive as to the atmosphere, gameplay and genereal sense of "awe" later in the game. It may have made me soound pre-emptive but it is still a valid point. The start of a game (while some say it is part training you) is very strict, while being scripted to high heaven. I have to admit more than once I have felt like I am playing 2 or 3 different games (including a water based race game ) and it lacks cohesion early on up until chapter 4 (after route kanal I think). Later in the game the physics are used quite heavily in places to solve problems, nothing mindbending or extra-ordinary but makes a change from the norm. Hopefully you can get your game up and running, as I was so p***ed off with it after the stuttering bug, the load times and the early (imo boringly linear any nothing amazing) levels that I was ready to give up. Seriously it does get better. It is still a PITA with the load times, but as I have said elsewhere - up to a point - you seem to be able to do more inbetween them, ie spend more time doing things before the next load point in later levels compared to the simple walk/run through the early chapters. That is the downside of the game, I have let my idea of idealist gfx go (and seriously there are basic things that could have been done better) because valve HAVE managed to somehome make it shine later on even without the stuff like moving clouds, detail textures etc.

so.. to sum up - I and others like me, may well be dissapointed from the early levels as we wanted to be "WOWED" straight away with such a high profile title. Wait until you get to water hazzard, and then onto a cool section where you get to play with the anti grav gun -> then into ravensholm. Each step the atmosphere increases and the niggles seem less to worry about. Still not perfect but like a different game compared to point insertion etc.

*IMO*

 

[azz0r]

Whiner alert, Whiner alert, Whiner alert.

 

[Antic2]

There wasnt much need for them to factor in you holding somethign makes your weight different, so they didnt. There is no time in game where you need to hold anything to do something such as that.

Well yeah, you can say that about any omission. There wasn't much need to make picture-perfect facial animations either, but they did. And I think it would add a LOT to the realism if your movement reflected what would really happen if you were holding something heavy when you pick it up. Remember, it's Valve who put the emphasis on physics and "immersion". Why go to all that trouble and not do this one simple thing? Seems a bit odd to leave it out.

And sorry your game crashed, but no game is perfect. You seem to be one of the few people complaining of crashes. Mine hasnt once crashed, the same for most people, otherwise there'd be more people complaining.

hmm.. have you read many of the forums around here or on Steampowered? There's a lotta ppl very pissed at Valve right now. But thanks for the note of support... I only hope it's fixed soon so I can at least play more than the first 20 minutes and get too see what all the worshipping is about.

This is good for a laugh...
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4339088136

 

[Antic2]

Whiner alert, Whiner alert, Whiner alert.

If your "game of the year" kept crashing every 20 minutes, you'd be pissed as well, dude. And yes I've tried everything everyone has suggested on the other forums and on Steampowered. There are LOTS of people having probs, so be constructive or be quiet.

 

[Sharpfish]

If your "game of the year" kept crashing every 20 minutes, you'd be pissed as well, dude. And yes I've tried everything everyone has suggested on the other forums and on Steampowered. There are LOTS of people having probs, so be constructive or be quiet.

word :cheers:

 

[azz0r]

Why do I have to be constructive? My game works flawlessy and I appreciate the physics for what they are; an integral piece of fun - NOT serious math.

 

[Gordons_nan]

...the physics is interesting, but doesn't seem to add much to the gameplay yet. They obviously wanted us to go "wow, look at the swing move!"

:S

Clearly you haven't got very far into the game then? Without the use of physics this game would be impossible to get anywhere on.

Physics is one thing... but you can't even do simple things like climb a fence, hang on to ledges (or the monkey bars in the playground)... you can't even jump on the swings and swing yourself... that at least would have been fun.

Why the hell would you want to actually do something in a game like swing on a child's swing, or climb on monkey bars?

There's just no pleasing some people...

 

[azz0r]

Obviously he's afraid to go out into the real world.

When was the last time you held an alien gun? Shot an alien gun? Saw a combine soldier?

All in real life ofcourse. NEVER.

 

[Krusty]

I managed to jump on a swinging swing. Took me ages to get past that playground, and later too with the gravity gun

 

[The Dark Elf]

Something they might think of fixing up in the future. Otherwise, yeah, the physics is interesting, but doesn't seem to add much to the gameplay yet. They obviously wanted us to go "wow, look at the swing move!"

What? Ok you _have_ to play it again then. The physics add so much to the gameplay, yeah a lot of it is there for show, but a lot of it is there and doesn't stand out, but some players have already started to realise how far things can be used. Objects as shields or setting up traps.

A few examples (there's like, thousands more others will come up with, I'd put money on it)

Using sheets of metal as shielding from gunships or striders. Moving around in the open and not getting injured. The snipers for example. Instead of running back and forth from cover, shoot out some store sign, then pick that up and hold it infront of you, getting yourself much closer and under the snipers window. Lob a grenade up and watch the guy fall

Room full of nasties need clearing, your low on ammo. Find an explosive barrel and drop it in there, get them near to it and a couple of shots, take cover, empty room.

Stack up heavier objects as a baracada to protect yourself or Alyx or your squad.

Think of the mods.. some doors are simply physics, the AI can easily get through those doors just pushing it.. Block them with objects from the other side once your through and not worry about them following. Or those doors with the bars across, close the door/s and put the bar back to prevent them getting to you. You can already do that in some area's of HL2, in a mod it could be setup all over. If another team were in the mod, maybe to get through they'd have to find a long thin piece of metal to stick through the gap between the doors and lift the latch so to speak.

Really does lead to sooo many new ways of playing games. HL2 simply touched the surface and says "now imagine what your mods are gonna be able to do"

Getting across area's, ok granted this info is from the stolen version (simply to prove its possible) But add welding support, and you could actually go and make a sturdy bridge with objects to get across.. Or weld objects against each other to make them stronger. Say your playing some game where your team have to protect some bunker from another much stronger team. Now those guys are gonna be able to get inside very soon, either windows or doors, so your team go through and start welding objects to windows and doors, using those latch beams, blocking area's with loads of furniture, giving your team the advantage if the others do find a way in. Weld a wooden platform above a stairwell, then place heavy barrels on it, add some supports undernearth it to keep it stable, then when the other team come through, blow the supports and platform, barrels fall and crush the enemy

Oh and those swings, as normal as they are, its the first time _properly_ simulated swings have been in a game, and just playing around on them is cool for the fact it really hasn't been done like that before.

And it is entirely possible to swing on them properly, jump on, crouch, and then as it swings, push forward or back just a little. It does to a point take into account what you do, can even rock them side to side into the bars or the other one, or get it going pretty high so you can jump off, everyone has done that on swings when they were kids

 

[DeltaBlast]

the fact that weight wasn't added was obvious since the leak (you could 'weld' things together, but the object would be as heavy as the one you were holding). I assume they just couldn't fix that and that's one of the reasons 'welding' isn't in the game now..

 

[MiccyNarc]

you can't even jump on the swings and swing yourself

Yes you can.

 

[Ultimape]

The first part of the game is designed to lead you into it. once you actually get a gun and start moving around, it gets alot more fun to play. It feels dull and boring like a tutorial because it is a tutorial!

I actually liked the first level, the atmosphere was exactly as I had expected it.