Freeman's Two Escapes from City 17 (a map?!?)

[Maturin]

Maturin, I forgot to tell you how much I love this work of yours. As Dienhoff said,
I've always been fascinated by the geography of the City 17 region. I might end up
using your map for something (with full credit, of course) but just looking at it and
examining each detail is fun. Great work.

Go right ahead. Photoshop really would suit better than some scribbling, because you could go back and and change things, like the Citadel that I am dying to rotate. So I certainly don't care if someone takes it and edits it if the fancy strikes them.

 

[Otto-Grainer]

Not only edit, but maybe something like film a bunch of rebels examining it on a board.
(red markers to highlight key locations, but probably keep your awesome nick names and all that.)

 

[coheedswicked]

Long time no news.... my external hard drive has been having some problems and since thats where i keep the photoshop program and the image file itself i havent been able to access it. Im pretty sure ive got it all taken care of though. Im posting a "first draft" map of HL2. I will be adding the episodes in on the final version. The image was scaled down for the upload so I labeled some important locations since you cant zoom in as far as the original.

enjoy.

http://s635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/kchristopher932/?action=view&current=C17f.jpg

If anyone would like a higher resolution version of the map just post your email or something and i can send a 21286x6585 .jpeg but it might take a long time to load the message since the attachment will be about 10MB.

 

[Apocalypse89]

A very interesting image, it's strange how small sections such as Ravenholm, Nova Prospekt, and Anticitizen One/Follow Freeman are compared to Highway 17 and Water Hazard, even though it doesn't seem that way in-game. Also, the closest thing to an overlap I can find is that the rail bridge at the end of Highway 17 leads into a previous map where no tracks are apparent.

Good job.

 

[Maturin]

Long time no news.... my external hard drive has been having some problems and since thats where i keep the photoshop program and the image file itself i havent been able to access it. Im pretty sure ive got it all taken care of though. Im posting a "first draft" map of HL2. I will be adding the episodes in on the final version. The image was scaled down for the upload so I labeled some important locations since you cant zoom in as far as the original.

enjoy.

http://s635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/kchristopher932/?action=view&current=C17f.jpg

If anyone would like a higher resolution version of the map just post your email or something and i can send a 21286x6585 .jpeg but it might take a long time to load the message since the attachment will be about 10MB.

Wow, that's awesome. Ravenholm really is a tiny speck. A maze, really.

Do you know how you're going to fit Episode One and Two on there? The way the maps line up, it looks like everything will overlap horribly.

But I'd definately take a higher res version. I'll PM my email.

 

[coheedswicked]

Things definitely lined up suprisingly well.... btw... just realized that i had the citadel location labeled wrong Its actually the section a little above the marker i accidentally made the line point to the horse statue

and yes im worried that the episodes will overlap horribly... well see how it works out

 

[Maturin]

It might be best just to put them on separate pictures. You have no way of knowing where the Urban Flight chapter begins, after all. The train ride covers more ground than is possible in a few seconds. Likewise, the beginning of Episode Two will be arbitrary, since the train continued to move after you blacked out.

 

[coheedswicked]

This is true... It think i might map the episodes separately then perhaps see if i can fit them together in a logical way

Im still having problems with my photoshop. might have to reinstall it. Ill probably get right to work on the episodes as soon as its functioning again though

 

[Otto-Grainer]

Hey, great work! Did you snapshot all of those images yourself or just collected the chapters already placed together, example, and mixed the Entire thing in? Either way, spectacular work. Nova Prospekt seems many much more miles away.

 

[Maturin]

He took all the pictures himself.

Are the Canals and Ravenholm links broken for you too in that Steam forum post?

 

[arcv]

Really nice work. Love it

 

[coheedswicked]

Thanks for the comments... ill try to keep you all updated once i start work on the episodes

 

[Otto-Grainer]

Are the Canals and Ravenholm links broken for you too in that Steam forum post?

Yeah, but they used to work. The authors deleted them in their ImageShack profile a few months later, I guess.

 

[JBails]

You confuse me...But you have put a lot of time into this so Ill say kudos

 

[bl4ckd0g]

Thank you very much coheedswicked for your effort, i was actually searching for the top-downs of every map for stitching them together; i was already starting taking pictures of the strategic guide (not having a scanner).
Any plans for Ep1? i found the Ep2 overview (isn't it missing the train start?) but i'd like to have a look also on Ep1.

On the discussion, i don't understand the "going south pointing north" discussion point. There's some reference somewhere or Valve said something? Because i'm missing it, and matching the HL2-total-overview to the Little Odessa map, they reflect quite well.
Then if you consider its overview, Ep2 makes you move slightly to the left (west) before going up (north), so it continues to fit the in-game map at Little Odessa.
You have also to add some poetic license to the entire vision, in Ep1 when the Citadel blows, you're not out of the city, but at Ep2 start you're well in the woods
So as like everyone accepts the longer/shorter map linkings (they're like that just for map architecture purpose) i think we should be more flexible and mentally extend some boundaries that for pacing/narrative/technology/practicallity couldn't be pushed more.

 

[chiefwhosm]

You have also to add some poetic license to the entire vision, in Ep1 when the Citadel blows, you're not out of the city, but at Ep2 start you're well in the woods

Actually you've left the city perimeter (combine wall) behind half-way through the train journey at the end of Ep1.

When the main explosion catches up with you, you're in complete woodland area with no combine structures around.

Also, Coheedswicked, any chance of uploading the 10meg high-res version to somewhere like rapidshare so anyone can grab it as required instead of having to use email.

Chief

 

[Maturin]

On the discussion, i don't understand the "going south pointing north" discussion point. There's some reference somewhere or Valve said something? Because i'm missing it, and matching the HL2-total-overview to the Little Odessa map, they reflect quite well.
Then if you consider its overview, Ep2 makes you move slightly to the left (west) before going up (north), so it continues to fit the in-game map at Little Odessa.

I just flipped the map absent-mindedly. References to North in Episode Two are everywhere, and the rotation of the citadel in the 3D skyboxes actually makes sense. It only changes once, in the Water Hazard chapter, indicating an easterly (or left, which was the only thing we knew at the time) course. But since you have barely changed direction from Kleiner's lab at that point, it's clear that the overview isn't accurate. Valve didn't try to make the maps line up or match their paper incarnations (see the disconnects in Red Letter Day, Highway 17 and Water Hazard). So as long as you assume that Gordon and Alyx's train didn't make any wild turns inbetween the explosion and the wreck, their northern progress can be verified. The Episode 2 roadmap fits it rather well.

Edit: I just assume that that car knocked Gordon out (remember that health loss?), Alyx dragged him inside and left him in the caboose while she ran forward to try and take control of the train. Then it climbed into the mountains and drove through the broken bridge before she could return.

 

[bl4ckd0g]

Actually you've left the city perimeter (combine wall) behind half-way through the train journey at the end of Ep1.
When the main explosion catches up with you, you're in complete woodland area with no combine structures around.

EDIT: damn, any way to disable the YT embedding?

I expressed myself badly. Yes, you're formally out of the city, what i meant is that the distance we rail through at Ep1 end is not comparable to the Ep2 initial panorama.
Also, when the explosion catches up you're running on flat field, while the railway in Ep2 beginning it's way on higher ground above City17... and the railway is parallel to the City, instead coming out of it.

But that's not much the point, i was just saying we have to accept a little poetical license and fill the gaps.
I don't like to find errors [in a fictional world] and bend the available material to my view, i prefear to analize the available material and bend my conception in the gaps

Any point instead on the "going south pointing north"?

Regarding the 10mb image: i forgot to write that i can host that image in my ftp if Coheedswicked wants to send me it.

 

[Maturin]

Here's the rest of the EP2 roadmap, but I don't think Coheeds made that one.
http://planethalflife.gamespy.com/View.php?view=HL2Files.Detail&id=50

It's not too hard to imagine the train swerving onto a track going east while Gordon was unconscious, and you can see the flat, wooded area where the shockwave hit you from the mountain vista.

The EP2 map is right side up, my map is upside down, and Coheedswicked's map is technically accurate, but only fits its skyboxes if you bend it 90 degrees at two points.

 

[bl4ckd0g]

Just to be clear

I just flipped the map absent-mindedly. References to North in Episode Two are everywhere, and the rotation of the citadel in the 3D skyboxes actually makes sense.

i agree. I can't play HL2 from long time so i can't say anything about the skyboxes, but looking at the overview i agree.
What i understood reading around here, was that the travel to Nova Prospekt is poiting south while the topography shows a general north, like if Valve wasn't respecting the common principle "up=north, down=south" ecc.
Was just a misunderstanding of mine?

So what i'm saying, is that both paths, to Nova Prospekt and White Forest are toward north, parallel and it looks quite consistent to me, like you say

It's not too hard to imagine the train swerving onto a track going west while Gordon was unconscious

i say "quite consistent", because to me the train in Ep2 should travel a lot more to the west to allow the path toward White Forest not ending on the Coast.
I'll try have a sketch one of these days, i'm making too much mess trying to explain in words

Edit: I just assume that that car knocked Gordon out (remember that health loss?), Alyx dragged him inside and left him in the caboose while she ran forward to try and take control of the train.

i more simplistic assumed they were knocked unconscious and then Alyx woke up first and went searching for an healthpack for Gordon

Here's the rest of the EP2 roadmap

yeah i was referring to this very same map, it lacks all the firs part with the train wreakage, the part where Alyx is hurt by the Hunter...

 

[Maturin]

Just to be clear
not completely because to me the train in Ep2 should travel a lot more to the west to allow the path toward White Forest not ending on the Coast.

I know what you mean. I've thought about the coast being in that direction, but it just makes an image of a map that is too weird.

I prefer to think that Coheed's overview should actually wrap entirely around the Citadel and the city so that the coast and Nova Prospekt is to the southwest, with White Forest directly north of it all.

It's radically different from the overview, but I think I have a strong enough case for its inaccuracy (what with the several disconnects and the oft-seen disregard by Valve of what goes on outside of the immediate play area). The overview sometimes has paper maps that outline the route, and it matches the maps very crudely. The areas and angles are similar but the relative distances are changed to suit the pacing and map construction.

I just feel like the Coast and White Forest areas should be distant from each other because of the very different climate and ambiance of each, and the fact that you can't see the ocean from the train wreck vista.

For example, say that you take the overview and swivel the direction of one of the load doors in the sewers. Then you have the airboat journey head farther up (relative to the overview) and to the right, giving you the proper angle for the skybox image of the citadel in Water Hazard. From there the canals and rivers wrap around the citadel towards the south, to Black Mesa East, and the coast area ends up somewhere to the south of the city. You could make the map change a lot just by modifying distances in certain areas, which you have to do anyway to make parts of the rivers meet each other logically, and to prevent the Highway 17 bridge from running into NLO.

yeah i was referring to this very same map, it lacks all the firs part with the train wreakage, the part where Alyx is hurt by the Hunter...

Yeah, I think the guy just wanted the car parts. But the smaller map you supplied shows that it lines up nicely.

 

[coheedswicked]

Regarding the 10mb image: i forgot to write that i can host that image in my ftp if Coheedswicked wants to send me it.

just PM me your email and i can get it to you

 

[bl4ckd0g]

I know what you mean. I've thought about the coast being in that direction, but it just makes an image of a map that is too weird.

I prefer to think that Coheed's overview should actually wrap entirely around the Citadel and the city so that the coast and Nova Prospekt is to the southwest, with White Forest directly north of it all.

I like what you say... because it's in great part what i am thinking :cheese: except for the Nova Prospekt position.
But i got your point and it makes sense. What you say about the "wrapping around" it's precisely what i meant saying to be flexible; looking at the overviews i was just thinking how should any single map overview be rotated or extended/contracted to make more geographical sense (like you said, bridge not going into NLO etc).

I'd make the Ep2 mines overviews right now if i had my PC running, that could give more elements to discuss about the distances between the hotspots.

By the way, a consideration came to my mind about the position of the various areas/hotspots: the cardinal points are detectable!
HL2 spans approx on 3-4 days (i refer to the "gordon timeline" and not the "world timeline" that we know it's different for the delay in the teleportation from Nova Prospekt) and the day cycle it's quite accurate, that is:
Red Letter Day starts at something like 11.00-12.00am (sun is high, people is receiving meal), Water Hazard 16.00-17.00 (the hue is very orange), Ravenholm takes all the night, and so on.
So given the sun position we can orientate the various map layouts according to the Cardinals and see if it makes sense the new overall topography.

What do you think?

 

[Maturin]

By the way, a consideration came to my mind about the position of the various areas/hotspots: the cardinal points are detectable!
HL2 spans approx on 3-4 days (i refer to the "gordon timeline" and not the "world timeline" that we know it's different for the delay in the teleportation from Nova Prospekt) and the day cycle it's quite accurate, that is:
Red Letter Day starts at something like 11.00-12.00am (sun is high, people is receiving meal), Water Hazard 16.00-17.00 (the hue is very orange), Ravenholm takes all the night, and so on.
So given the sun position we can orientate the various map layouts according to the Cardinals and see if it makes sense the new overall topography.

I tried that originally and nearly had a nervous breakdown. It doesn't work... ever.

Recall that Source maps are constructed with a skybox, and the position of the sun is simply illustrated by the texture on one face of that skybox. Valve places them haphazardly, with the default rotation of the skybox, and places the sun for dramatic effect, with the sunset over Ravenholm of the White Forest radio tower.

Edit: And each map has consistent cardinal points built into it, in the X and Y coordinate planes, but this just gets you the overview layout again.

 

[coheedswicked]

Edit: And each map has consistent cardinal points built into it, in the X and Y coordinate planes, but this just gets you the overview layout again.

my overview is initially situated with the top of the each map with the top of the overall map. I did have to rotate ravenholm around though so it woulndt end up in the canals

 

[bl4ckd0g]

Coheedswicked mailed me, everyone can grab the hi-res version of the layout for HL2.
Resolution is really high and it is possible to zoom in very nicely! Thanks!

Recall that Source maps are constructed with a skybox, and the position of the sun is simply illustrated by the texture on one face of that skybox.

yep, i know because i do some mapping :naughty: ...actually that is why i am trying to make my head around this
Thanks for your sharing, i was wandering if someone already tried the cardinals approach, thinking that maybe Valve could have put some consistecy in where they put the sun. I wasn't expecting that really, but you never know.