interesting evolution discussion

[Jintor]

It was an observation.

 

[theotherguy]

I've got two important things to say:


1)
I think that evolution is just a result of natural selection.

Let me make an example. If being tall is more useful than being short, than tall people will be a better mate and the people have offspring that are taller. This will continue until the right height is accomplished.

The same goes for all traits; not too tall, not too fat, not too weak, not too dumb, not too ugly, etc.

Picture this scenario:

if someone is born with a genetic defect - a mutation - with eyes on the side of their head, it will be too ugly (too far from the norm) to be a good mate, but now imagine having eyes on the sides of their head gave that person incredible sight, and that person was some kind of hero, and became famous. It could be possible that this person could find someone to reproduce with, and with a large amount of children carrying this gene it could catch on, if the offspring live successful lives as well.


It's all about the value of a mutation that causes evolution. It could be strength, beauty, functionality, or intelligence, but over time natural selection gradually causes evolution.


Obviously it's not proven fact but that's what I think, until I hear something more believable.

Note:
I should have given better examples because picturing those eyes on the side of the head are freaking me out.



2)
I've seen on National Geographic Channel that they can create life from water and electricity in a test tube - the two things that Earth had plenty of when life on Earth Started.


Earth apparently rained for a very very long time and had violent electrical storms and also had the sun, and thus simple life began on earth.

That's exactly what evolution is. Though you're describing sexual selection along with it. Natural selection is about sheer survival value, with reproductive success implied. Sexual selection is about mates selecting each other based on certain traits and driving evolution.

Second, they didn't create life. They created amino acids, the basic building blocks of protein. They did this with methane, sulfurdioxide, carbon dioxide, water and electricity. If we wanted to have abiogenisis in the laboratory, we'd have to wait for a billion years or so, because the conditions necessary to create life are so unlikely that it requires that long of a time frame.

 

[VirusType2]

they didn't create life. They created amino acids, the basic building blocks of protein. They did this with methane, sulfurdioxide, carbon dioxide, water and electricity. If we wanted to have abiogenisis in the laboratory, we'd have to wait for a billion years or so, because the conditions necessary to create life are so unlikely that it requires that long of a time frame.

Thanks for the correction. I didn't remember exactly, but I thought it was important enough to mention.


I feel that sexual selection is most important with humans over all other species of life because good looks can be very important in human life. This is why if you ask most people, the first thing that they will mention is "good looks". It can help you be successful, where, for other creatures, it's really only important to insure a mate.

This is possibly the downfall of the human species, because I will go out on a limb and suggest that people are getting dumber. If it weren't for the thousands of years of written language to learn from, I'm not sure what would be.. but with no real natural predator, humans can evolve unchallenged.

This brings me to the point that humans are possibly the only species where even people that could not normally survive are faring well, thanks to the support of other humans. A quadrapaligic (sp. no arms/legs), or mentally handicapped person is still able to live a full life. Can you imagine a shark with no fins, or a Lion with no legs able to continue life unchallenged?


I also think that creatures with long life spans evolve slower. The life cycle of an insect or virus is quite short when compared with other animals that have not faired well on Earth, like the extinct species. And Insects and Viruses are perhaps the most successful species on Earth. Most large creatures (long life span) have already gone, or are almost extinct.

Humans however, were intelligent enough to make it through violent changes on Earth, and so the species is well evolved because of the sheer amount of time spent evolving.

New, or undiscovered species are found all of the time, particularly in uninhabited (by human) areas like rainforests. This is the result of evolution from a related species.

 

[The Monkey]

Thanks for the correction. I didn't remember exactly, but I thought it was important enough to mention.


I feel that sexual selection is most important with humans over all other species of life because good looks can be very important in human life. This is why if you ask most people, the first thing that they will mention is "good looks". It can help you be successful, where, for other creatures, it's really only important to insure a mate.

This is possibly the downfall of the human species, because I will go out on a limb and suggest that people are getting dumber. If it weren't for the thousands of years of written language to learn from, I'm not sure what would be.. but with no real natural predator, humans can evolve unchallenged.

This brings me to the point that humans are possibly the only species where even people that could not normally survive are faring well, thanks to the support of other humans. A quadrapaligic (sp. no arms/legs), or mentally handicapped person is still able to live a full life. Can you imagine a shark with no fins, or a Lion with no legs able to continue life unchallenged?


I also think that creatures with long life spans evolve slower. The life cycle of an insect or virus is quite short when compared with other animals that have not faired well on Earth, like the extinct species. And Insects and Viruses are perhaps the most successful species on Earth. Most large creatures (long life span) have already gone, or are almost extinct.

Humans however, were intelligent enough to make it through violent changes on Earth, and so the species is well evolved because of the sheer amount of time spent evolving.

New, or undiscovered species are found all of the time, particularly in uninhabited (by human) areas like rainforests. This is the result of evolution from a related species.

The pace of evolution is decided by the length between generations, not the lifespan of the individual. But as people are getting children later now than they did before, we will see some slowing down in evolution. But that will only be marginally, I guess.

 

[Dan]

Despite what you say, nobody has ever created life inside a sterile and sealed container. Some organic elements have been synthesized from non organic elements. And things like cellular membranes have been seen to spontaneously form from oil bubbles, but nobody has created a living creature, bacteria, virus, or self-reproducing piece of DNA out of completely inorganic building blocks.

 

[Dan]

The pace of evolution is decided by the length between generations, not the lifespan of the individual. But as people are getting children later now than they did before, we will see some slowing down in evolution. But that will only be marginally, I guess.

The pace of evolution is also decided by the amount of genetic change between generations. Some species have very few changes between generations and others have more. An increase in free radicals in the body (due to modern living conditions) may actually increase the rate of genetic change. Also, the periodic switching of the magnetic poles leads to regular intervals of high solar radiation. Right before the magnetic poles reverse, the Earth's magnetic field is weakest, and mutation rates should be increased. This happens on a cycle of once every 100000 years or so. The period of high radiation lasts about 5000 years, with at least 3 days of no magnetic field existing at all. We are coming up on one within the next few thousand years I believe, so we are going to be seeing higher cancer rates probably.

 

[Eejit]

The pace of evolution is also decided by the amount of genetic change between generations. Some species have very few changes between generations and others have more. An increase in free radicals in the body (due to modern living conditions) may actually increase the rate of genetic change.

I'm pretty sure that will be more than cancelled out by modern society allieviating or removing most sources of selective pressure.

 

[[Matt]]

I'm pretty sure that will be more than cancelled out by modern society allieviating or removing most sources of selective pressure.

Except for sexual selection.

 

[The Monkey]

Except for sexual selection.

Ugly people get laid too, but with other ugly people. I read a pretty interesting hypothesis about in the future mankind had split up in one ugle and one beautiful race.

 

[Narvi]

That's pretty wrong, since ugliness is subjective, and women aren't always attracted to physical beauty.

Isn't that the theory an economist thought up?

 

[VirusType2]

Ugly people get laid too, but with other ugly people. I read a pretty interesting hypothesis about in the future mankind had split up in one ugly and one beautiful race.

That is interesting, but what I've noticed is that beautiful people often take their looks for granted, and often go for average people. Functionality seems to be of the order for them. A successful average man with a very pretty wife for example.


And isn't the point of sexual selection to improve and have prettier offspring? For example, the fat pretty face lady gets with the well built ugly dude, and ... profit.


Another interesting thing is I often see ugly people with beautiful offspring. So, when it comes to mixing genes of two beautiful people or two ugly people, the result is not guaranteed. And, the other side of the coin, I've seen beautiful people with ugly or average children.


On another note, I'm not seeing nearly as many interracial couples as I saw in the late 90's. In fact I often see blonds with blonds and Mexicans with Mexicans, and Indians with Indians. People always talk about a race of humans in the future where everyone is a neutral color, and that is possible for a large portion of the population, but I still think there will be pockets of populations where there are purebred or strong colored races.

This could cause quite a bit of tension and especially - difficulty finding a mate - for the minorities, and they could die off over a [not so] long period of time. This probably supports the neutral race prediction in the end however, because the strong colored minorities will slowly die off like American Indians are.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Beauty isn't always set at birth. Different people like different people. The persons personality also greatly affects how attracted you are (speaking from experiance here).

 

[Sulkdodds]

Ugly people get laid too, but with other ugly people. I read a pretty interesting hypothesis about in the future mankind had split up in one ugle and one beautiful race.

That doesn't sound like an interesting hypothesis (or indeed a proper hypothesis at all). It sounds like stupid wanker journalism rehashed from HG Wells' The Time Machine.

 

[Jintor]

That is in fact the first thing I thought of, too.