Legally why they had to Fake the "hack"

[amneziac85]

I always hear "they didnt need to create an excuse to delay HL2", when I say they used the "hack" of their system as and manufactured excuse to delay the game. But infact, they did. Heres the deal...

Everytime a high profile game gives a release date, they get tens of thousands of pre release orders, and they are actually PAID for those orders even before the game is out. So multiply 20,000 preorders by $50

20,000 preorders
x $50
$1,000,000 cash advance

Thats a 1 Million dollar cash advance! If your running low on funds but dont want to borrow the money from the bank, this is what you do. ESSPECIALLY when dealing with a very long development cycle. Everyone knows HL1 made alot of money and everyone knows HL2 is costing ALOT of money to develop.

How doing this got them in trouble....

One way or another they get into this deal with ATI, its not known if ATI went to them with the offer coupons deal but they did eventually get into it with one another. So ATI basically pulls up with a truck load of money and says "Here, we'll put coupons in our boxes for HL2 and you can have all these millions of dollars". Sure anyone can see that they could have just told ATI the release date was bullsh*t, but one of the first rules of business is "A bird in the hand is better then two in the bush" let alone one in the bush in this case. So Valve agrees this and chalks it up as easy money, after all, they wouldnt have wanted Doom 3 to get this offer from ATI if they turned it down. So all is well until the release date starts to creep closer and Valve knows damn well it wont be ready in time. So do they tell ATI "Hey, turns out it wont be ready for another year...sorry"? Hell no, for the fact that saying the game "Just isnt done" and wont be for another year would mean a lawsuit by ATI because they were told the same thing we were, that they were finishing up meaning the game was done except for some minor things, because if you remember, ALLL the way up until the source was stolen, they were saying that the game would make its release date. You cant suddenly be a month from release then whoa hey delay it by a year. ATI would sue you saying you knew this the whole time and lied for their money, end of story. So they needed an excuse to delay it, its the difference between First Degree Premeditated Manslaughter and Third Degree Accidental. Its the difference between a lawsuit where you would have to give back all the money plus ALOT more and break your new friendship with ATI (which could seriously hurt you on many levels, use your imagination) and getting free publicity while being able to keep the money and keep the train moving. So they realease a source, that they know will be very hard to get, that if youve played it, reveals very little about the story, is ugly and clunky. I think its obvious, but let me know what you guys think.

 

[ray_MAN]

It was not a fake. It was real. In fact, I jsut uninstalled everylast one of it from my system.
/me breathes a sigh of relief and needs a cookie

 

[The Mullinator]

I wonder how fast this thread will be closed?

 

[Sprafa]

Fenric!!!

Abom!!!

Close Please!!!!

 

[Direwolf]

Not only is this about the millionth thread on the subject, a split-off from another thread on the subject, its still freshly annoying!
You don't need to beat the horse until its nothing but dust.

 

[amneziac85]

whats funny is i posted it 15 seconds ago...there no way any of you have even read it...how typical.

 

[The Mullinator]

thats because its a conspiracy theory and we have heard it alot already

 

[Ahnteis]

Here's your tinfoil hat.

 

[amneziac85]

so you admit you havnt read it...so why even give your uneducated posts? you have just proved your an idiot.

 

[Risiko]

Do you really think Valve would let the game code on the internet just for some funds?

People love conspiracy theories - even ones that, logically, do not make sense.

I urge you to look at the Pro's and Con's for Valve in doing all of this. The Con's outweigh the Pro's. And what's more, there is absolutely no evidence - only speculation.

:O

 

[Murray_H]

But wouldn't the money just stay with the people that took the pre-orders?

 

[The Mullinator]

I only had to read the first 10 lines to know what you were talking about and to know what my opinion on the rest of it would be.

 

[amneziac85]

no the money is counted as a sale and is passed on.

 

[The Mullinator]

Besides when you pre-order something they usually don't actually charge you until they ship it.

Alot of people cancelled their pre-orders and are now waiting for Valve to finally allow pre-orders of the special versions of HL2.

 

[amneziac85]

Please, Mullinator, if you have something to say, put it all in one post, theres already 4 by you. And probably 3 more as I type this.

 

[ray_MAN]

Half is given to the gamestore and the other half is given to the company. They usually get a share of $5 each. So it isn't $1,000,000.

 

[Chris D]

This will be moved to the proper forum first before I take further action.

Moved to R & S

 

[XenoSpirit]

I think your a load of crap... valve wouldnt leak thare own game and they probly got sued for more $$$$ then your stupid conspiracy even adds up to X.X its ppl like you that cause forums like thees to get pissed off and your thread seriously pisses me off... ppl like you are so anti-valve / anti-halflife / VERY anti-inteligent

 

[The Mullinator]

This thread is moving fast, as soon as I have made one post something new has been said and I feel I have to respond to that one as well, and I don't like to put it under an edit of a post I have already made since people often don't get to see what may have been edited.

 

[Icarus]

I guess it's time for the law student to chime in....

amneziac85...
What you are saying has an incredible amount of holes.

1. It would be extremely illegal to do anything of the sort.
2. The investigation has used some of Valve's own money so the don't have any reason to do it for the money.
3. If thats all they wanted they could have said it got "hacked" but not have leaked it.
4. They called in the government to help them out. Trust me there is no way a software company would risk it being able to be traced back to them.

I'm not saying your stupid or anytning, so don't think I'm flaming you. All I am doing is showing that your idea, while a good idea, falls apart when you examine it closer. Although it is plausible, it would not, in any way, be Valve's best choice of action if the money advance was indeed what they were trying to accomplish.

 

[Chris D]

i think your a load of F'kin bs
fake a leak? valve got sued for more monney then your stupid conspiracy theroy even counts up for!!!! EVREYTIME SOMETHIN BIG IS GOING ON SOME IDIOUT HAS TO MAKE SOME BULLSH*T CONSPIRACY!!!! sry for caps but i think its needed.. now if your so anti-valve and so anti-HL and SO VERY ANTI-INTELLAGENT!!! WHY ARE YOU here? (no offecse / threats / harassment) but serious cut the crap allreaddy

You're pretty wrong on this one.

Valve hasn't been sued any money at all. If you're sorry for the caps then why bother posting with caps. Also try to be a little less abusive. However wrong he may be.

 

[Chris D]

I guess it's time for the law student to chime in....

amneziac85...
What you are saying has an incredible amount of holes.

1. It would be extremely illegal to do anything of the sort.
2. The investigation has used some of Valve's own money so the don't have any reason to do it for the money.
3. If thats all they wanted they could have said it got "hacked" but not have leaked it.
4. They called in the government to help them out. Trust me there is no way a software company would risk it being able to be traced back to them.

I'm not saying your stupid or anytning, so don't think I'm flaming you. All I am doing is showing that your idea, while a good idea, falls apart when you examine it closer. Although it is plausible, it would not, in any way, be Valve's best choice of action if the money advance was indeed what they were trying to accomplish.

Also bare in mind if they did need money to be able to carry on development, they may be able to ask Vivendi. Publishers do help out the developers in that respect sometimes.

 

[XenoSpirit]

You're pretty wrong on this one.

Valve hasn't been sued any money at all. If you're sorry for the caps then why bother posting with caps. Also try to be a little less abusive. However wrong he may be.

as you where makein your post i was actually re reading mine and editing it lol

 

[Icarus]

Also bare in mind if they did need money to be able to carry on development, they may be able to ask Vivendi. Publishers do help out the developers in that respect sometimes.

Good point Chris_D

And that brings up something else...Vivendi is the publisher...any money from pre-orders go to them, I doubt such a huge company would put itself on the line criminally for a game.

 

[Lobster]

lol crazy nubs and there conspiracy theories, makes me giggle

 

[amneziac85]

I guess it's time for the law student to chime in....

amneziac85...
What you are saying has an incredible amount of holes.

1. It would be extremely illegal to do anything of the sort.
2. The investigation has used some of Valve's own money so the don't have any reason to do it for the money.
3. If thats all they wanted they could have said it got "hacked" but not have leaked it.
4. They called in the government to help them out. Trust me there is no way a software company would risk it being able to be traced back to them.

I'm not saying your stupid or anytning, so don't think I'm flaming you. All I am doing is showing that your idea, while a good idea, falls apart when you examine it closer. Although it is plausible, it would not, in any way, be Valve's best choice of action if the money advance was indeed what they were trying to accomplish.

Well the reason they said they delayed it was because the leaked source created security holes. So the only way to actually "hack" it would be to take it. And im not saying they just made it up, im saying that they knew someone was attempting to get into their files and the real hacker was allowed access to certain files, files that wouldnt have spoiled the game. As far as calling the goverment in, the goverment wouldnt have much of a role, the source was really taken and as long as a few people at the top know what really happens, the goverment wouldnt have discovered anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_D
Also bare in mind if they did need money to be able to carry on development, they may be able to ask Vivendi. Publishers do help out the developers in that respect sometimes.


Good point Chris_D

And that brings up something else...Vivendi is the publisher...any money from pre-orders go to them, I doubt such a huge company would put itself on the line criminally for a game.

I learned of this tactic from the time I spent working at activision in santa monica. There were powerpoint presentations where this tactic would plainly be spelled out in the development cycle of the game. "11/05 Set early release point to draw in pre orders" Its almost like big game development policy. The big guys get a cut of that money, and so do the ebgames of the world, they get their cut too, its all just standard stuff to get your money.

 

[hiln]

Valve would never have done that, and here is why. It's pretty simple.
THE FBI
the big factor all of your conspiracy theorists forget, that the fbi got involved and investigated. If valve had done it themselves, they would have got in shit.

edit: oh well, it doesn't matter

 

[Chris D]

Fine, maybe that is the case.

Our point is however, Valve did not cause the leak, make it up or otherwise. It is something that happened. At their own admission the game was actually delayed because it wasn't finished. There wasn't ever a statement from Valve that the leak was the cause of the delay.

You may very well be correct about the pre-orders thing but you certainly aren't about the rest of it. You don't quite seem to know the facts surrounding the leak accurately either.

 

[amneziac85]

Fine, maybe that is the case.

Our point is however, Valve did not cause the leak, make it up or otherwise. It is something that happened. At their own admission the game was actually delayed because it wasn't finished. There wasn't ever a statement from Valve that the leak was the cause of the delay.

You may very well be correct about the pre-orders thing but you certainly aren't about the rest of it. You don't quite seem to know the facts surrounding the leak accurately either.

What facts did I get wrong? They said that the delay was because the source created security holes. If you were to tell me that one of the biggest games ever costing tens of millions of dollars to develop would have its source code stolen with a damn keylogger I would have told you one word, "Norton". A word they want us to bellieve they have never heard. I just think their smarter then that. And we all know that whenever theres a story, theres 10 times more to that story then you even realise.

 

[Neutrino]

Ah yes, I'm sure Valve intentionally leaked the source code of their game that was five years in the making. Yes brilliant idea there.

 

[Chris D]

1) Valve never said the delay was caused by the leak in anyway. You are merely speculating again. The only reason they gave for the delay was that the game wasn't finished. They said nothing about security holes in the source.

2) You're also wrong that Valve faked the hack. That just wouldn't happen.

 

[Apos]

Here are the facts:
1) HL2 would have been delayed anyway, and ATI would have known it long long before anyone else, long before they started bundling their cards
2) they really were hacked
3) their financial interest is always to release a game earlier than later

Now, you can argue that they maybe concealed the delay until long after they knew just to pump up ATI sales. If so, I fell for it hard. But other than that, all the other conspiracy theories fall flat in terms of plausibility, including this one. They didn't release their own source, and they didn't lie to ATI: that would be suicide (as would lying to the feds).

 

[amneziac85]

Well i remember a conversation I had with my buddy who still works at ativision (i havnt worked there in 2 years) and we had talked about the release date and the ATI coupons. We had talked about how the release date must not have been another fixed prerelease date to bring in some early checks from EB and other alike, because ATI was giving the coupons, and wouldnt have done so if the game wasnt gonna come out that year and Valve isnt dumb enough to try to play ATI like that and push it back...then the "hack" happens. The coupon for a game with the graphics card thing was new territory, unexplored, and Valve got themselves into a jam.

 

[Neutrino]

Well i remember a conversation I had with my buddy who still works at ativision (i havnt worked there in 2 years) and we had talked about the release date and the ATI coupons. We had talked about how the release date must not have been another fixed prerelease date to bring in some early checks from EB and other alike, because ATI was giving the coupons, and wouldnt have done so if the game wasnt gonna come out that year and Valve isnt dumb enough to try to play ATI like that and push it back...then the "hack" happens. The coupon for a game with the graphics card thing was new territory, unexplored, and Valve got themselves into a jam.

You have yet to address why Valve would allow a leak of their source code. Without an explantion of that your argument is pointless.

 

[getName()]

Didn't Gabe say in one of the posts in the info from valve thread that the game would'nt have been released even if the code had not been hacked?

 

[amneziac85]

1) Valve never said the delay was caused by the leak in anyway. You are merely speculating again. The only reason they gave for the delay was that the game wasn't finished. They said nothing about security holes in the source.

2) You're also wrong that Valve faked the hack. That just wouldn't happen.

Well then you should read this... http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/halflife2/news_6076466.html

Im am quoting from the article here....

VU Games president of international operations, Christophe Ramboz, blamed the now-infamous source code theft for the delay. "A third of the source code was stolen," said Ramboz. "It's serious because it forces us to delay the launch of the game by at least four months--to April 2004."

and this... http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/halflife2/news_6076512.html

Quote from this article...

Larholm stressed that the leaked source code could be used by hackers and others to find security holes in the program. This means that people who play the game online may be opening themselves up to attack.

I guess even staff writers dont always know what their talking about...lol

 

[amneziac85]

You have yet to address why Valve would allow a leak of their source code. Without an explantion of that your argument is pointless.

OK,...im gonna have to ask you to actually read the the first post...thats right...that big one on page 1.

 

[getName()]

your quotes are from Christophe Ramboz of VU not anybody from valve

 

[amneziac85]

your quotes are from Christophe Ramboz of VU not anybody from valve

And you think the President of International Operations (lol) would run around knowing hes being quoted in the press and not know what hes talking about?

 

[getName()]

yep, but your trying to couter

1) Valve never said the delay was caused by the leak in anyway. You are merely speculating again. The only reason they gave for the delay was that the game wasn't finished. They said nothing about security holes in the source.

with your quotes from somebody in VU, fair enough he's the President of International Operations for VU, but he's NOT somebody from valve.