Questions

[xC4RN4G3x]

ok...i've seen some people do this and i just wanna see if you guys think it's ok. lets say you model a gun and make a barrel right? but...u make the barrel with create cylinder so your barrel isnt attached to the rest of your model. its just like its own thing(i know this is ok for movable parts, like the hammer, but the barrel isn't a movable part), is this ok to do? can you just have the barrel go into the base of the gun so it looks like it's connected? will this have problems during skinning or animating or any other process? i've been thinking about this and sometimes i realize i can save lots of polygons if i didnt connect a part of my model to the base.

 

[RipperRoo]

No, that works fine, it may help to group the two objects afterwards, but Ive never had trouble with keeping them as separate objects and just inserting one into another.
Remember, when something is shown in a game, its more like... a video than the actual model itself, it just records the movements needed (animation) and plays them when triggered ingame.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

yeah i wasnt really worried about the animation, more about the skinning part. i guess its ok then thanx
EDIT: ok i got another question. How much better would a normal mapped model look than a regular one? i feel as if all my work so far is useless because they are not high poly models which can be used to normal map. i dont really know what to do. should i make high poly models and then optimize them to create low poly ones so i can normal map the high poly one onto the low poly? basically its getting the uv map from the high poly onto the low poly, but...i dont know if my models fit into any of those categories. i dont think the models i have made so far are considered low poly and not quite high poly either. could someone point me in the right direction about what to do if i wanted to normal map my models?

 

[Sir Phoenixx]

ok...i've seen some people do this and i just wanna see if you guys think it's ok. lets say you model a gun and make a barrel right? but...u make the barrel with create cylinder so your barrel isnt attached to the rest of your model. its just like its own thing(i know this is ok for movable parts, like the hammer, but the barrel isn't a movable part), is this ok to do? can you just have the barrel go into the base of the gun so it looks like it's connected? will this have problems during skinning or animating or any other process? i've been thinking about this and sometimes i realize i can save lots of polygons if i didnt connect a part of my model to the base.

Make sure you delete all polygons hidden by other objects, like the end of the barrel that goes in the gun body.

 

[Ti133700N]

If you are making weapon models that will be seen in first person view, you should target 2500 tris for the low poly (standard) version. For the model that will be used to generate the normal map it can be of any number of tris (millions if you wish). You don't have to unwrap the high poly models, only the low poly version.

Personnaly I prefer to make the low poly version first and then add details and smooth modifiers later to make the high poly version.

Your models are low poly.

Do you have 3dsmax7? If yes then you are lucky because you can generate the normal maps directly in 3dsmax without any plugins. I'll explain later how to do it if you want.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

i have 3dsm6....how do i get 7? and i thought you needed to unwrap the high poly...i guess i was wrong. sorry about that. ok then to make a normal map...i would have to add detail to my models and then use that model to create the normal map and apply it to my low poly model. correct?
another question: i've noticed that many of the hl2 models, and some cs:s, have one side of the gun model completely taken out. i guess its to save polys, but is this safe?
if it is safe, then how many polys can i expect to reduce?

 

[Sir Phoenixx]

About 25-35% maybe (you can't delete the entire half side of the weapon, since you'd be able to see that they're missing in game). Deleting some of the right side isn't necessary, the amount of polygons saved is quite small, and any additional game performance would be negligible. It would be better to just go through your model and optomize what's there.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

i see....also another question. will there be a significant difference between a normal mapped model and a regular model? i mean.....lets say i model an ak47 and its 2700 poly, is there really a lot more detail that i need to add? what kind of stuff do you guys recommend to normal map? grooves?
EDIT: i have another question waiting but i'm not gonna say it right now because i might get flammed. i'll wait until you answer this one and then i'll ask. thanx.

 

[twentyknives]

re: removing the right side of a weapon:

do this after you have tested the model/animations in your game. The HL2 team did this on thier models (check them out sometime). One of the reasons HL2 runs so well on lower end machines is its inginuity in reducing the amount of work your poor computer has to do to make the game run at a respectable framerate.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

yes i brought that up already.

 

[crackhead]

u can booleen the cylinder to like mould the shape out of the gun but make sure u sort out any problems it causes + i duno how to do that on 3dsmax

 

[Ti133700N]

u can booleen the cylinder to like mould the shape out of the gun but make sure u sort out any problems it causes + i duno how to do that on 3dsmax

You mean for the high poly version? Cuz booleans for the actual in game model is a big no no. But for the high poly you can do anything.

And normal maps are used to eliminate the need of adding polies because it takes alot more gpu power to draw polies than to use normal maps so if you use 512x512 normal maps it will not affect performances much, and it's better to use it than adding like 500 more polies. Oh and also, you can bake the bump maps into the normal maps so this adds extra details to the model. I'll post examples later, you'll see the results can be alot better with normal maps than without.

For 3dsmax version 7.. hum... well you can buy it. Dunno how you got the version 6, but you can updrade to version 7 for a low price (considering the quality of the product).

 

[crackhead]

yeh ages ago i found a link where u could download version 6 absolutely free and it was on the official website but cant find it anymore i guess they took it down.

 

[Ti133700N]

Let me presume it wasn't hosted on an official Web Site of Discreet...
The only free version of Max is GMax, wich is starting to get old and is pretty limited (no render etc...)

I will not talk about warez. Bad me.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

umm wow that was my next question. is it ok to create a mod with models created in a non-legit 3dsm? i'm only 16 so i can't afford some thousand dollar product. i was gonna ask if i could get away with it or something. or if they can even find out.
my top ideas:
1. my friend made the models
2. i made the models at my friends house
3. i made the models using the trial version
4. i make the models then export them to a free 3d model creation program(XSI mod tool / milkshape)
5. can they even find out if my models were made in a non legit copy?
6. what the hell...i'm scared.

 

[Ti133700N]

Since it will be used in a non-profit project, it doesn't really matter (well, you understand what I mean). They can't see how you made the models and with what program because at the end your models will be compiled with studiomdl anyway. Just say you use a student licence of 3dsMax and it will be fine. Some will say, if you can't buy it, you don't need it, personnaly I say try different programs, see which one is the best for you, learn, have fun and then later if you are really serious and you want to go into modeling then buy it.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

i see, whew, i can make a mod. WOOT! haha. love u 1337

 

[crackhead]

ive told them where you live theyll be round in half an hour

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

oh shit..hold on let me fry my comp. gonna dunk it in my pool. god damnit crackhead why do you gatta be such a tattle tale?

 

[crackhead]

you should be more scared that i know where you live lol.

 

[WAR_Nuker]

crackhead eh....i knew a crackhead that stole my friends car twice...and both times he was found passed out and said he didnt remember stealing the car (he was sleeping in the drivers seat).

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

how do u know where i live???!?!?!??!

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

i got another question. i have 3dsm6 and i want to do normal mapping. where can i find a plugin for that? also is there anything useful that i should get from here: http://www.mankua.com/index.htm ? my next question: in the hl2 model viewer there is only normal map and spec map. well there is another one that starts with a p but i forgot. the article that i'm reading from: http://leigh.cgcommunity.com/ is mostly about photorealistic texturing as in rendering them realisticly and so...this is confusing me. will hl2 register diffusion maps(transparency, ect.)? can someone just post all the things i need to create a COMPLETE hl2 skin? from what i've seen i think its normal map, spec map, transparency, and thats it. i believe all of that is also created using a greyscale(yes i've been reading the article. almost done). it's really confusing and i just want to know everything to include so i don't leave anything out. i know i should have looked through the vmt files and such but i couldnt find time(i can only stay on the computer a certain ammount a day) and i think i would have found it rather confusing.
EDIT: what happened to these forums? how come its so quiet now? barely anybody posts anything now. i remembered the good old days where there would be atleast 5 posts a day. not its like just one post a day is a miracle. and i dont see as many people as i did back then. 1337, crackhead, warnuker and mindlessmodder are like the only people that talk here on a daily basis. its kind of depressing now.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

bump...

 

[Ti133700N]

I tried Kaldera but I prefer ORB to generate the normal maps (well now I use 3dsMax7 but before that I used ORB).

The diffusion map in Max is the actual texture... so of course it is used in HL2. And yes it also supports transparency.

can someone just post all the things i need to create a COMPLETE hl2 skin?

Hum, I don't think someone will write a complete tutorial about that here, there are plenty of informations about that on the net, google it. Also you can look in the official wikki pages (I posted the link earlier). Then if you need any specific information we'll gladly help. (like you don't know how to add tranparency or the texture doesn't appear on the model).

Not many people got to the point of adding stuff in the Source engine (especially normal mapped and all that stuff). Most of the people here are mappers, modelers or they reskin the models. That's why there are not that many replies. But I think you've got most of your answers anyway.

 

[mindless_moder]

if its really on ur conscience u can use gmax to model and just use ur non legit to do normals and export to hl2.
as for the other question use orb or get max7 it comes with its own normal mapping interface .
btw this was a really good idea for a thread nice way to answer not only your questions but the ones the comunnity has.
and i beleive that discreet actually did have a copy of max on their site .... it was hidden on their server or omething.

 

[xC4RN4G3x]

getting max7 is gonna be tricky...i'll see what i can do. for now i'll try to get ORB(whatever that it) and see how it turns out. i'll continue to purge the wikki site and find out stuff i don't know. thanks for your help. if i have any more questions i'll post em here
EDIT: i dont think i have enough space for gmax at the moment.. sorry