Revolution Racing (HL2 Street Racing Modification) Needs help and some general nfo

[Traxil]

Little background info:
The mod is named Revolution Racing and it is a HL2 modification. Well this idea was though up by myself but my buddy kind of pushed my into it. This mod doesnt have to do with war with guns but rather war on the blacktop.
Revolution Racing is a HL2 modification based on street racing. We plan to include fully customizable cars with a buy system which rivals cs. In this mod we plan cars anywhere from Nissan Skyline GTRs to 67' mustangs, thus there may be wars between old school american muscle cars vs. the new wave of import tuners. We haven't really settled on how many cars there will be nor do we exactly know how in depth the parts list will go, but we expect to have a lot of customization and variability between cars even if they are the same model.
Servers will be based on 16 players eventually but every race will be 4 players. Thus we there will be a wait time before races. This is not to discourage the player but to allow the players time to customize their cars. Also we plan to add a sort of xp system into the game. So, if a player wins a race he gets 3xp and 2nd gets 2xp and so on. Last player gets none. This is to even out the races so that players who win their races will not just get more and more money as the fly through everyone with nos kits and such. Also the public has provided us with some other ideas like a lobby system so that people who are not racing can chat, walk around a garage, buy parts, look at the competition's specs, etc.

That's about all I can really tell you. This is where you may come in. We of course need some help. We would like to have about 5 modelers ( just because there are so many cars. In fact we may need more) and maybe get some coders as we go along, but until the sdk comes out we wont really need coders at the moment. We are not in a rush but we would like to start testing some stuff a month or two after the game is released and there may be a public test sometime near christmas. We dont want to release the mod anytime before this time because what is the point of having a mod for a game that people haven't really experienced yet?
Modelers are critical and we really want your help. The side is being compiled right now and we are negotiating with some sites that want to host it. I also have obtained a news posting position on the battlefield central hl2 site and may also be posting for HL2files.com so I can spread news about the mod pretty fast if we need to.

If you think you can help post here or just send me a message at [email protected] . If you're a car modeler and do not even like the idea this is still a chance to show off your work for a mod that is already stiring up quite a bit of interest.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Draklyne]

Sounds interesting. I was wondering how the different parts would affect the car, and if they were put into effect through the physics system, i.e. replacing an engine would make the gears turn faster which would make the wheels spin faster vs. replacing the engine makes the car go fast. I'm sure it's something you can code, it's just a matter of how in-depth you'd want to go. I've always wondered, though - does racing really take skill? Or is it just a matter of engines and wheels?

NOTE - HLRally should put out a Release Candidate soon. Make sure to pick it up at www.hlrally.net! - NOTE

 

[Punisher454]

I've always wondered, though - does racing really take skill? Or is it just a matter of engines and wheels?

Yes and no and no and yes. Theres alot of variables, and different cars have different requirements. A 16 second car wont go much if any faster with a pro driver or your Mom behind the wheel. but a squirly lightweight conversion car like a V8 Vega with a 950HP Blown Big Block is gonna take ALOT of DRIVIN just to keep it on your side of the street, and a good sense of how much power the tires can handle VS how fast your going (If youve ever reached 60+ MPH and Still have extreme wheelspin going on you'll know what I'm talking about). And then theres things like what happens when you have tirespin and are in a slight drift then you back out of it just enough to regain traction, the tires bite in and youre cocked sideways, sometimes its minor, but on a more extreme car it can be a real situation.

The Punisher (67 Pro-Street Camaro, 439" Big block Chevy)

 

[Cedric]

Darn, i got disconnected from the internet and lost my post. I will just type a shorter post now

this mod sounds like it will be some fun, upgrading and racing cars. i like how your going to include old cars aswell as new ones! I just hope you get a good mod team together so then the standard of the mod will be high.

Just on what Draklyne said, making the car upgrades/mods then calculating the "new" cars torque, max speed, handling etc. from the engine, gearbox ratio, diff ratio and car weight sounds awesome but could you do something like that or would it be complex?

 

[Punisher454]

I have some Ideas on how to simulate engine performance upgrades realisticly. its not complicated but it would take alot of time to collect all the nessesary data.
On important thing is to be sure to take datapoints from several points in the torque curve and not just use max torque and horsepower numbers.
I'd have a catalog of parts available that are inspired by real world components but the brand names are changed in the game.

For example: on a small block chevy engine in the game I'd have about 4 different cylinder heads you could buy, each head with few valve size combinations. Each head would also have a few different stages of porting options. then you could have a list of about 15-20 different camshafts to choose from (from mild hydraulic flat tappet to a full tilt solid roller with massive lift and insane duration) about 4 different carbeurator manifolds,about 3 different carb sizes(600cfm, 850 cfm, and 1150cfm), about 3 or 4 EFI manifolds, a Roots blower manifold, and a centrifugal blower setup. you could buy different bore and stroke combos for the bottom end, and for this engine you could choose blower pistons at 7.5:1 CR, stock pistons at 9:1, mild performance pistons at 10:1, forged 11:1, forged 12:1, and forged 13:1. then you'd have a choice of stock exhaust manifolds, shorty headers, small tube 4 into1 headders, large tube headers, with stock mufflers and pipes, medium pipes and performance mufflers, large pipes and race mufflers, open headers. all the brand names could be made up, but still similar to real world brands. the time consuming part is to run all the combo's through an engine simulator and get a baseline torque curve for that engine combo. then you add variables to the combo such as EFI computer options, nitrous systems, and such.

That would just about do it for options on a small block chevy engine. you'd have a bunch of different torque curves in a database. Then you have mods for your car.
For example on an early muscle car like a first gen Camaro you have options like...
1. weight reduction steps
fiberglass hood, fiberglass fenders, heater removal,interior strip, lexan windshield, fiberglass bumpers, race seats and a few others.

2. chassis upgrades
Slapper traction bars, drag shocks, subframe connectors, bolt on ladder bars, mini-tub job for stock frame, minitub job w/ new framerails, full tub job with full cage, narrowed rearend and 4-link with coil overs(about a 25,000 dollar job).

3. tire and wheels options
For the rear...
Stock 14" steel wheels, 15" rally wheels, 15x8 aluminum wheels, 15x12 aluminum wheels(requires minitub), 15x15 aluminum drag wheels(requires full tub job). stock compound tires, performance street compound, Drag radials, Super DOT aproved drag compound, Full drag slicks, in 26x8, 26x10, 28x8, 28x10, 28x12(minitub required), 28x14(minitub required), 31x10, 31x12(minitub required), 31x14(minitub req.), 31x16(full tubjob), 31x18(full tub), 31x21(full tub).
for the front...
stock 14"steel, 15" rallys, 15x7 aluminum, 15x5 drag front, 15x4 lightweight drag fronts, stock street tread, drag front tread, 26x6, 26x4, 28x6, 28x4, 26x4 special lightweight drag front runners.

the above is just an example of what you could do. each option would just change some variables in the performance equations. and some upgrades will require other upgrades to be performed first. Also these changes could be visible when you look at youre opponents car prior to deciding to race. A Blown fully tubbed car is going to be super fast, but it'll also be real obvious how fast youre going to be and alot of people wont want to race you because of it.

Like on the nitrous system, you could pay alot extra to hide the system.
these are just some ideas, it wouldnt be too hard to add this stuff if you already have a purchasing system in place.

 

[simmo]

Very nice ideas, cant wait for it

 

[synth]

there is already HL Rally as a HL1 mod. I like the idea of being able to customize your cars, but i think races get more interesting with more than four people at a time...

 

[Traxil]

ya but it isnt the true heart of street racing. Sure people drag on the streets but naturally a four player spread is true street racing. If we had 8 cars lined up how stupid would that be? The roads would have to be rediculously wide and thus look very out of proportion.

 

[Draklyne]

Or...

Or you could, ya know, use MicroRacers...

 

[Punisher454]

I'll admit that I havent been out to the street races since '94, and I know some things are VERY different now that you'll mostly see imports buzzin around. But back in the day, we always raced in pairs. there was a lenghty negotiation session before most races where both drivers look over each others cars and then try to get a handicap from the other guy(or sometime girl). the handicap wasnt measured in time, but distance. Usualy one to 3 car lengths, and sometimes "the move" which would allow the driver to stage very deep and launch early with the other driver waiting untill the car with "The Move" to cross an agreed upon point (usualy the starting line).
Once I raced 4 cars abreast, in Anchorage Alaska in 1987. It was a 68(or 69) ElCamino with a fairly warm 350, My old 77 camaro with a 455 Pontiac(slightly warmed over), a 64 or 65 mustang with i presume a 289 or 302, and a 70-73 Firebird. I dont even recall the winner but that was the ONLY 4 car race I've ever seen.
One time there were 2 supposedly hopped up VW's racing in front of me at the stop light I was in the above mentioned 77 camaro with the 455 Pontiac. The bugs started and My buddy and I started laughing, we waited a couple of seconds then I launched caught up with them VERY soon and passed these guys locked in a neck and neck race (the Strip was 4 lanes wide one way).
In LA I did se a FEW 3 way races, but almost almost alays 2 cars. The faster the race the more room your going to want. Also the betting system would ve bery hard with more than 2 cars, and there was almost always money riding on it.
A common tactic is to talk somebody with a slower car into racing you just for fun, you let them win(just barely), you race again a couple more time, increasing the bet each time. Then you make a big bet and blow their doors off. This is easiest to do with a fast car in a new area where you dont have a reputation already (can lead to fights however).
Another thing is the cops. the bigger the crowd the sooner the cops will come, also the badder the cars the sooner the cops will come. And If you have some realy seroius cars there that realy shake the ground and youre racing in industrial parks youre probably goping to set off some building alarms if there are any 11 second or faster runs. Then somebody yells a location and there is a crazy caravan across town to another location.

The most memorable night of racing that I recall was one time when My brother and I were racing My 67 Camaro. It HAD a 13:1 compression aluminum rod roller cammed big headded 355. I think we were running a 1050 dominator carb and I had a dual 3" exhaust system. It was rowdy! We agreed to race this Nova that APPEARED to have a mild 396. Well we were doing out burnout, and this guy does his, and at the end of his burn out he does a dry hop and pulls the fron wheels about a foot off the ground. oops! The little small block but up a good fight but the bruiser won, and he was slowing down at the end(to avoid it being too obvious). We got back to the start and heard the cops were coming. Evry body starts to scatter (like usual) this guy in the nova drives over to his car trailer (it was a tilt deck trailer) pulls up on the trailer, the weight of the car tilts it back down on the front, and the dude just stays in the car holding the brake while his buddy drives the truck away. nobody even got out to lock the deck down. Fun times.

 

[Guest]

why always only american cars?

what about mercedes, BMW etc etc ?

 

[Submerge]

Domestic Dispute are having import cars
...like skylines and other european cars like teh Voltwagen Beatle B)

 

[Traxil]

Yes, but Domestic Dispute is not racing. I want to see if that mod makes it. I think it would be cool. But our mod is racing, not a shoot-em up romp like every other mod it seems being made. We just want to be a little different. Sure you can drive skylines and stuff in Domestic Dispute but not to the customizability of our mod. I doubt you will be able to get rims, engines, body kits etc for your cars at all. In that kind of mod you don't need it.

why always only american cars?

what about mercedes, BMW etc etc ?

We plan to have some other cars like that. A certain BMW car has already been planned. Mercedes on the other hand probably won't have a car in the mod. Just because it is more luxary than anything, but we are always open to new ideas on cars. Hey, and if you help us out with modeling we sure are open to any suggestions.

 

[Murray_H]

Hmmm i can see the lawyers now.......

And even if they did say "yes", damage modelling would almost probably be out the window with most car manufacturers (especially commercially available ones)

 

[Traxil]

Trust me we have looked into all available options to get by copyrights and all. We've emailed car companies to ask them if they would consider a backlash even. When it really all comes down to the fact that we may be using their products in the mod but we are not selling this product thus under law we cannot be punished for that. However if for some reason we do get complaints from car companies. We'll just rename the cars. Thus we can just say they are our cars. Thus we scapegoat ourselves anyways. There are copyrights for everything. Most mods bypass these laws by stating that this mod is not going to be distributed with the intention to make a profit. CS infrindges on so many gun rights and they can't get sued for anything. But when they sold it they had to change the names in order not to purchase these rights.

It's all a system of scapegoats and one liner outs. Every mod will do it, but we have an ultimate backup. We basically are seeing if the car companies come after HL Rally and Rallyfield. If they do, we will really consider changing names, but until that point they are the actual car names and companies.

 

[Murray_H]

Roger that!

Does that extend to advertisng aswell.....say like if you did a Pepsi billboard on a game, would you be stepping on someones toes?

 

[Traxil]

That would be. If we were to put a pepsi billboard in game we would expect them to pay us. That is advertising for them. We plan for that to be a way of sponsoring companies. Like they pay us $20 we get their logo on a billboard or something. Seems logical way to do that. We don't expect it to work, but who knows it may.

 

[Punisher454]

why always only american cars?

I was telling story's about REAL street racing. Oh, and I did mention some german cars, a couple of VW's. Those guys were always alot of fun.
I know things have changed in the last 10 years since I did any street racing. Most of the guys I used to go racing with dont go either. Too many ricers buzzin all all over the place and actin like fools. Makes for a scene which alot of the older guys with the TRULY FAST muscle cars(theres alot of slow ones pretending to be fast) cars dont want anything to do with the current scene.
The police are another big factor. Its alot harder to cruise down the street in a 10 or 11 street/strip car than it used to be without gettig pulled over. On the other hand for the import guys its alot easier to go unnoticed. The rediculous wings, stickers Fart box mufflers hangin out the back, neon lights and overkill stereo systems are standard equipment for just about evry punk out there. How can you tell one setup to race from one thats just all BS. Its easy for these guys to blend in.
I know last time I got My 67 impounded, The Cops just happen to have drove down My street a while bofore I took it out. They spotted me in the front yard with the hood up tweaking the Carb a bit. It was very obvious this was a bad ass machine. I left My house and was just puttin down the street well under the speed limit when they passed me going the other way. They flipped around, followed me down one block and rolled their lights. Lucky for them My registration was at home in the glove box(I had just re-assembled the car and not put evrything back yet). Late in the day on a friday with the impound yard Closed for a holiday weekend, it ended up costing me over 300 bucks to get it out. If I was driving a rice burner would that have happened, no way in hell! Thats one reason why you see less and less serious muscle cars on the street. Theyre in the garage, taken apart and being worked on, or at the drag strip. Also the older guys are now married and have kids, and their budget priorities have changed alot (I fit this catagory myself).

 

[Punisher454]

However if for some reason we do get complaints from car companies. We'll just rename the cars. Thus we can just say they are our cars.

This is what activision did with Interstate '76. It was obvious what the cars were, and the names even hinted at their origins.
A "Lincon Contenential" was now a "Jefferson Soverign"

Ford was changed to Phedra
Chevrolet became Corchevau
Dodge was Dover
A ram truck was a stag
Stingray became Manta
The 'Cuda was a 'rahna

 

[Traxil]

It's crude but it works. Games like Tokyo Extreme Racer did it too. They look exactly the same but they are named differently. Car companies can't do anything because if they say that we copied their car all we say is we came up with that one just look at the name

 

[Punisher454]

I found a few street racing videos.

There are several at:
www.thehorsepowerwarehouse.com

And there is another one of the 540 tubbed nova vs the nitrous smallblock camaro on kazaa, search for "nova 540" and you'll find it, its better than the ones on the website. Be sure to crank up the sound on this one, when the Nova launches it should raise some hairs on the back of your neck!
Mountian motor through flowmasters, NOW THATS A SOUND SYSTEM!!