Rock Band dev trashes PS3

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Rock Band Dev Dishes Out PS3 Hate
By Susan Arendt October 26, 2007 | 2:07:18 PMCategories: Game Development

Jason Booth, who until recently worked for Harmonix, recently added to his blog a lengthy explanation of just why he feels "ports to the ps3 will never be as good as their 360 counter parts, and why most ps3 exclusives will likely continue to suck."

Booth says that gamers who are of the opinion that developers bringing games to the PS3 are doing a bad job have been "duped" by Sony's "impressive marketing spin," and goes on to respond to some of the more frequent arguments used to support the PS3, such as that the PS3 is more graphically advanced than the 360 (the fill rate is significantly slower, he says), and that the cell processor is extremely powerful (not really, he says).

Booth, who worked on Guitar Hero I and II and Rock Band before leaving Harmonix to join Conduit Labs, sums up his sentiments thusly:

So, the common theme is this; developers must spend significantly more time and resources getting the PS3 to do what the 360 can already do easily and with a lot less code.
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http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/10/rock-band-dev-d.html
 
Yayaya, we know this already. It still has potential for greatness. Even tho they made a mistake using the CELL.
 
Because GH and Rock Band are such graphically demanding games right? This guy doesn't seem to know what he's talking about. Besides that, the PS3 is still early in it's life. Some of the best looking PS2 games came out way after it's release. Uncharted and Ratchet and Clank looked great, and from what we've seen, Killzone 2 and White Knight Chronicles have some incredible visuals. Also, to refute his comment about games looking worse on the PS3 vs the 360, heres a video comparison of DMC4:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/29150.html

Looks identical on both platforms.
 
Sedako said:
Because GH and Rock Band are such graphically demanding games right? This guy doesn't seem to know what he's talking about. Besides that, the PS3 is still early in it's life. Some of the best looking PS2 games came out way after it's release. Uncharted and Ratchet and Clank looked great, and from what we've seen, Killzone 2 and White Knight Chronicles have some incredible visuals. Also, to refute his comment about games looking worse on the PS3 vs the 360, heres a video comparison of DMC4:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/29150.html

Looks identical on both platforms.
Click to expand...

1) Of course the best-looking PS2 games came out very late in the system's life. That's true of every videogame platform. PS3 games will look better and better as the system ages, but that's true of the Wii and 360 as well. It changes nothing.

2) Apparently DMC4 looks and runs better on PS3. Then again, that might be because it was developed on the PS3 and then ported to the 360.

3) Just as a random aside: The PS3 may be theoretically more powerful than the 360, but the 360 is far easier to develop for. Some PS3 games, especially in the future, will look better than any game on 360. But these games will require increased development times due to the specialized and experimental coding methods required to handle the Cell processor properly. And the more specialized the PS3 code of a game becomes, the more difficult - and less likely - it will be for the game to be ported to a platform with more standard architecture (PC, 360, Wii), meaning potentially reduced profits. And if these games might bring in reduced profits in an industry of spiralling development costs, it means that these games are even less likely to be developed primarily on the PS3 in the first place.
 
Stigmata said:
2) Apparently DMC4 looks and runs better on PS3. Then again, that might be because it was developed on the PS3 and then ported to the 360.
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WRONG!!!!

Capcom already said both 360 and PS3 version looks identical with no difference.

Capcom was actually developing DMC4 on PC first, later they ported to PS3 and 360.
 
Combine Hybrid said:
WRONG!!!!

Capcom already said both 360 and PS3 version looks identical with no difference.

Capcom was actually developing DMC4 on PC first, later they ported to PS3 and 360.
Click to expand...

Oh. I was misled. I remember reading it on Kotaku or something, but oh well.
 
PS3 exclusives continue to suck?? WTF is he on about?? Uncharted, R&C, Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm, R:FoM--these are all great and you can see how they all improved on the earlier releases. There are some 360 exclusives that don't exactly work propely either (Looking at you Mass Effect, my love, you are a wonder, but your tech needs aid.) I am really tired of certain devs trashing the PS3--its a remarkable system. So is the Wii and so is the 360. Very different, but all terrific. Maybe that guy from Epic is right when he says if you want to maximize your ROI you must develop with the PS3 as the lead platform and then move the code to the rest. Avoids the pitfalls that so many have fallen in with trying to port to the PS3 afterward.
 
The one thing i agree with is that Song made a mistake with how hard it is to make games for the PS3. Yes there will be MANY GREAT games on the PS3 but you cant argue how easy it is to make games on the 360. Now lets say instead of using CELL they used that money for more Cores within the same idea of a quad or more and added a better GPU. Now the ps3 would have been ages better then 360. They thought the CELL was the next best CPU thinking it would be in PC by now. It was a prediction error.

The cell is not a CPU with 8 cores its far more complicated then that.
 
VictimOfScience said:
PS3 exclusives continue to suck?? WTF is he on about?? Uncharted, R&C, Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm, R:FoM--these are all great and you can see how they all improved on the earlier releases.
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As compared to Bioshock, Mass Effect, Halo 3 (not a fan of it anyway), and Super Mario Galaxy?


Also, as games have proved again and again, there are NO graphical differences between the X360 and the PS3 save lighting, which can be played with in Settings.
 
VictimOfScience said:
PS3 exclusives continue to suck?? WTF is he on about?? Uncharted, R&C, Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm, R:FoM--these are all great and you can see how they all improved on the earlier releases.
Click to expand...

Sales numbers won't exactly tell you that... Sure, they may be good games, but there isn't a big market.

Example: In R&C's first month, it sold a DISMAL 74,500 units... That's horrible beyond belief, but hopefully it's doing a little bit better now. Of the other titles, the highest is Heavenly Sword with 139,000

The highest selling titles you listed were Motorstorm @ ~200k and R:FoM @ 144k.

Sure, numbers aren't everything and a great game can be a great game without the sales, but to the companies, numbers / money are everything.


Also, I swear I remember this news from a WHILE ago.
 
I honestly can't see what people are on about, the 360 is a high-end 2005 computer running inside a nice-looking box and the PS3 is a high-end 2006 non-computer running inside a nice-looking, slightly shinier, box. You have to develop games differently for the two. Games developed primarily for PC/360 will always be hard as hell to run properly on a PS3 and vice versa.
 
Rapstah said:
I honestly can't see what people are on about, the 360 is a high-end 2005 computer running inside a nice-looking box and the PS3 is a high-end 2006 non-computer running inside a nice-looking, slightly shinier, box. You have to develop games differently for the two. Games developed primarily for PC/360 will always be hard as hell to run properly on a PS3 and vice versa.
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Sony tried to force devs to learn an entirely new bag of tricks for the PS3. If they had listened to devs they would have had a winner.

And of all the successful PS3 titles (Uncharted is the only one I would consider paying full price for), none have showcased why exactly the Cell uberprocessor is any better than what is already out there.
 
Same thing happened with the PS2 but the competition really wasn't there back in the day.
 
the only reason why i even bothered to read this was this guy is far from the first coder to complain about making ps3 games.

but i think he's wrong about all ps3 games being garbage.
 
He never said all PS3 games are garbage. Infact he said there is a high chance someone will do something amazing on the PS3 eventually, but about PS3 being graphically better then 360, do a comparsion of the anti-aliasing. 360 does a MUCH better job, and the up-scaling chip in the 360 is amazing.

I love how people who play games are telling off a developer who DEVELOPS games.

"Fill rate is one of the primary ways to measure graphics performance - in essence, it's a number describing how many pixel operations you can perform. The fill rate on the PS3 is significantly slower than on the 360, meaning that games either have to run at lower resolution or use simpler shader effects to achieve the same performance. Additionally, the shader processing on the ps3 is significantly slower than on the 360, which means that a normal map takes more fill rate to draw on the ps3 than it does on the 360. And I'm not talking about small differences here, we're talking roughly half the pixel pushing power."

so that is why bad looking games like halo 3 is only 640p on 360 and awesome looking games like uncharted is 720p on ps3? :lol

you have no idea what you're talking about
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Some guy posted this on the website. I just couldn't help but be frustrated with the utter stupidity shown in that post
 
Interesting read, he echoes a bit what Gabe said with respect to how writing code for the Cell doesn't benefit you unless you write more games for it. With the 360 you can port the game to PC fairly easily and capture another 20-25% sales as a result. Also the read speed of the Blu-ray is something I've heard about before.

It was no surprise that the comments section has been flooded with fanbois, telling him he is wrong/sucks/should be drowned in a bathful of blood. But what was more interesting to me was that a few posters had both systems and amongst them they all seemed to favour the 360 over the PS3 for gaming.

I don't think Sony as a whole care to much in the long term about the overall success of the PS3 as a gaming platform though, the real win for them is that through unit sales they've managed to make Blu-ray the more likely gen media format of choice. They've got years of making everyone pay through the nose handsomely for BR discs and players ahead of them. :dozey:
 
Fliko said:
I love how people who play games are telling off a developer who DEVELOPS games.
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Because he's recycling information that has been public knowledge for how long now? Seriously Mr important Rock Band developer person "WE ALREADY KNEW THAT"

So, the common theme is this; developers must spend significantly more time and resources getting the PS3 to do what the 360 can already do easily and with a lot less code.
Click to expand...

Yes the PS3 requires more resources to develop for. What part of that is new information to anyone?
 
It's not that it's new information, it's that nobody ever pays any attention to it when it's brought up. They go "Oh, that's nice Mr. Rock Band Developer" and then immediately forget he said anything when they see a ****ing screenshot of Killzone.
 
Kadayi Polokov said:
I don't think Sony as a whole care to much in the long term about the overall success of the PS3 as a gaming platform though, the real win for them is that through unit sales they've managed to make Blu-ray the more likely gen media format of choice. They've got years of making everyone pay through the nose handsomely for BR discs and players ahead of them. :dozey:
Click to expand...
I don't think that is true at all. Its unit sales of movies and not hardware that are making studios wake up to the consumers' choice. Blu-ray disc sales are at least twice that of HD-DVD even though HD-DVD players are selling more units of hardware. Plus, Sony's developer acquisitions like Evolution and Guerilla only prove their dedication to great software. While Blu-ray will be a big part of the future of the PS3, the games really are the primary focus thanks to a number of large (Japanese) developers and publishers essentially telling Sony to focus more on games instead of the whole living-room-super-computer angle and with the software lineup for 2008 looking very impressive indeed, things will only get better for the machine.
 
VictimOfScience said:
I don't think that is true at all. Its unit sales of movies and not hardware that are making studios wake up to the consumers' choice. Blu-ray disc sales are at least twice that of HD-DVD even though HD-DVD players are selling more units of hardware. Plus, Sony's developer acquisitions like Evolution and Guerilla only prove their dedication to great software. While Blu-ray will be a big part of the future of the PS3, the games really are the primary focus thanks to a number of large (Japanese) developers and publishers essentially telling Sony to focus more on games instead of the whole living-room-super-computer angle and with the software lineup for 2008 looking very impressive indeed, things will only get better for the machine.
Click to expand...

The Japanese don't care about America or Europe when it comes to game sales except for the big franchises (GT etc), likewise American Film Studios don't care about their film sales in Japan (Memoirs of a Geisha with Chinese actors.... )The thing that matters is film sales in America & Europe. Blu-ray through the PS3 has shifted a lot of units. Maybe less unit's than the Wii & 360, but those guys aren't competing as next generation media players. If the 360 had shipped with a native HD-DVD drive, the market place might be looking a lot more healthy for the format. I think it's naive to think otherwise. Companies like Blockbuster throwing themselves behind Blu-ray exclusivity so early on haven't done HD-DVD any favours either.
 
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