Soft and Hard: Shadows

[BigGoose2006]

does HL2 use a combination of soft and hard shadows? or only soft? What about DooM3?

Wouldn't it be cool if it was realistic and shadows got less "soft" the closer the object casting the shadow got to the surface it was casting its shadow on? I dunno, I just thought that was a neat idea and was wondering whether HL2 uses it... oh well.

 

[willchristiansen]

To my knowledge that's how softshadow technology works. Doom3 will be using soft shadows. HL2 is not using dynamic shadows in the same way doom3 is. HL2 calculates shadows based on radiosity and a form of global illumination. Objects that cast these types of shadows can be specified, the is an overall shadow map for the maps though... just like in HL1 It is evident when you look.

-Will.

 

[Subz]

i dunno but whatever doom3 uses makes it look cartoony.

 

[SidewinderX]

last I heard, which was a bit ago, Doom III was using a precise stencil shadow system.... more hard shadows. IMO, this seemed fine for the game, since it was mainly indoorrs with strong lightsources (when there were lightsources).

MOST of hl2's lighting is pre-rendered, unlike D3's.

 

[Apos]

HL2 main map lighting system is to use high-quality light maps that are pre-calculated from all the static lightsources. Given that they use radiosity and and GI techniques to generate these maps, they will ultimately provide a much much more realistic simulation of light than direct lighting engines like Doom3, with the cost being that they cannot be dynamically modified directly except by illumination or the effect of actual dynamic lightsources (which Valve claims are in the game, and would probably work like they do in Far Cry, but we've probably yet to see). In addition, the pre-rendered shadows appear to shade objects properly, unlike in older games. That is, light and shadow show up on the characters in many cases, rather than the entire character going from dark to light all at once.

HL2 also uses projected stencil shadows for moving objects. These are all soft/hard dynamically when necessary, and they can cover any surface, unlike shadows of the past which only covered the ground (i.e. they can now be cast on walls and inclines). Unfortunately, at the present time, they don't seem to blend properly with each other, they don't seem to get cast on moving objects, and they of course do not match up as well with the lightmaps.

We've yet to see any evidence of soft shadowing in Doom3, but I believe that Carmack suggested that he was using it for the couple of outdoor scenes the game has.

 

[Kon]

check out the unreal engine 3.0 video, it uses this effect..

 

[blahblahblah]

check out the unreal engine 3.0 video, it uses this effect..

That probably will be one of the first games to use that technique. It sounds (and probably is) very expensive (computational) to implement. So don't go expecting that type of lighting for Doom 3 or HL2.

 

[Apos]

which effect? U3E basically uses higher-fidelity versions of ALL the different lighting methods described here.

 

[Apos]

That probably will be one of the first games to use that technique. It sounds (and probably is) very expensive (computational) to implement. So don't go expecting that type of lighting for Doom 3 or HL2.

Both HL2 and Doom3 list soft shadows as part of their features, and in the case of HL2, we've actually seen them, pretty extensively. I don't think I've seen character shading quite as good as what's in HL2's NPCs, and all of it is soft and subtle.

 

[blahblahblah]

which effect? U3E basically uses higher-fidelity versions of ALL the different lighting methods described here.

This is what I remember. They take a shadow created by a close light source and a shadow from a distance light source. They take those two shadows and interpolate them depending on the objects distance from the light source to render a realistic shadow. I also remember their explanation involving cubemaps, but I am not sure what role they play in the lighting engine.

 

[Varsity]

This is what I remember. They take a shadow created by a close light source and a shadow from a distance light source. They take those two shadows and interpolate them depending on the objects distance from the light source to render a realistic shadow. I also remember their explanation involving cubemaps, but I am not sure what role they play in the lighting engine.

Cubemaps are for the effect on the walls, not the shadows themselves.

 

[Apos]

They take those two shadows and interpolate them depending on the objects distance from the light source to render a realistic shadow.

That's a bit more complicated than soft shadows. But let's be clear: HL2 makes extensive use of soft shadows (pre-rendered shadows are naturally correctly hard or soft, properly taking into account all light sources, and all of the projected shadows are soft in the DX8 versions and up)

 

[Crusader]

HL uses radiosity calculations for static lighting = better quality.
HL uses soft shadows for dynamic lighting and shadows = more realistic.

Doom 3 uses hard stencil shadows = works well for the type of game they are making, and it's impossible to do radiosity calculations and light bounces in real time anyway.