Steambox/Piston discussion

[ríomhaire]

So Valve's hardware project is this. It's a custom version of the Xi3 X7A running Linux. Here's Xi3's promo video for their computers:

Now I'm curious how they're going to be packaging and advertising this thing. They can't just sell that on its own in a box. There's no mention of bluetooth or any other wireless connection or a mention of controllers. They need to ship it with some type of pad in the entire point is to be an easy plug-in-and-play console-like experience. Obviously the controller Valve patented might come into it but how is it going to connect? Having a USB lead stringing from the box, which seems to be designed to be mounted on the back of a TV or monitor from the video, would be a terrible idea both in practicality and in what people expect from a modern console and using a USB dongle would seem a bit backwards, even if it does have enough USB ports to spare.

Obviously it needs more of a launch lineup too. Valve are almost certainly talking to about/paying publishers to get AAA games running on Linux for it. If not this thing is screwed and Valve isn't run by idiots. I'm just curious as to what companies will actually support it. THQ was talking about the possibility of Linux version of their games but they're being sold off bit by bit now. SEGA were eager enough to get the label of fully controller supported for Sonic Generations on Steam that they released an update to a game they'd been ignoring for a year and with the effort they seem to be putting into the PC version of Sonic & All-Stars Racing 2 (taking time to release it rather than rushing and having special PC-exclusive characters) it wouldn't surprise me if it was Piston-compatible by the time it's released (though it won't surprise me if it's not either). No developer or publisher has said anything about supporting this yet though, so we can only wait and see.

Oh and lastly of course, is anyone actually planning on buying it (depending on what the price will be)?

 

[sixteenth]

It's apparently one of many manufacturer prototypes. I don't think we should be rushing into thinking that "this" is going to be the Steambox. Especially since"Piston" is based off of the X7A model.. of which is $999.99. Valve is looking for "low-cost, high-performance designs for the living room that are great candidates for Steam and Big Picture."

That isn't low-cost, imo.

 

[ríomhaire]

Yeah I just saw the article on Polygon about this just being one of many. I knew Gabe said they were looking to get in contact with multiple OEMs but I figured there'd be one flagship one at first then others to follow later, not a bunch shown off at once. Presumably Valve will be subsidising this, there's no hope in hell they can compete with consoles at a thousand dollar price tag (and consoles are generally sold at a loss as-is).

 

[Pwner523]

I want

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

I'm very mixed on this whole thing and very unsure of the success/future of it all given limited developer support for Linux (even though I know it's just a PC and can be formatted any which way).

This is just the proposed resurgence of pre-built gaming PCs for a more modest price and a focus on standardization. I really don't think there's much of a market there. Let's be honest with ourselves.

Gabe's rage over Windows 8 is so hyperbolic it reminds me of his thrashing of PS3 or his obsession with Episodic Gaming. Both statements he revoked in all but what, two or three years?

They honestly hope to grab console marketshare with the only announced leaks about the price(s) approaching $1000? Oh, please.

 

[Eejit]

his thrashing of PS3

:arms:

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

One of my favorite Gaben 180s. I don't like that he put all his weight back on as is evident in the CES shots. I want him to live until I comb grey hairs.

 

[Eejit]

Gaben is what the plebs call him. Stop it.

 

[Vegeta897]

For once I agree with Eejit.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

I hate how the internet has taken so much to the term "plebs"

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

I hate how the internet has taken so much to the term "plebs"

It's annoying, but not as bothersome to me as "aspie."

 

[Krynn72]

Oh and lastly of course, is anyone actually planning on buying it (depending on what the price will be)?

The question isn't "am I going to" its "why would I want to." Still trying to figure out the answer.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

I'm quite certain I already own a "Steambox" and it's a better computer than these will be. Though, I suppose marketing wise it may not be total suicide. Just partial suicide.

 

[Krynn72]

I'm quite certain I already own a "Steambox" and it's a better computer than these will be. Though, I suppose marketing wise it may not be total suicide. Just partial suicide.

Precisely. I don't game on consoles because I don't want to buy and play on an outdated computer. Thats all any console is. I feel like this is just a way to trick console players into buying a computer capable of playing modern PC games.

 

[Maestro]

Precisely. I don't game on consoles because I don't want to buy and play on an outdated computer. Thats all any console is. I feel like this is just a way to trick console players into buying a computer capable of playing modern PC games.

Watch Xi3's video about their computer lineup. The design is an essentially modular system. The MOBO ITSELF is in separated parts, meaning it may even be more granular in upgrades than a traditional PC. I'm genuinely impressed by the system they are displaying. GPU remains to be seen, but the idea is really good. Gabe has proven so far to have very savvy ideas about how to make a product we can all get along with, I am willing to bet Piston will exceed any other console out there.

 

[Krynn72]

Watch Xi3's video about their computer lineup. The design is an essentially modular system. The MOBO ITSELF is in separated parts, meaning it may even be more granular in upgrades than a traditional PC. I'm genuinely impressed by the system they are displaying. GPU remains to be seen, but the idea is really good. Gabe has proven so far to have very savvy ideas about how to make a product we can all get along with, I am willing to bet Piston will exceed any other console out there.

I'm not sure if you're trying to refute something I said, or expanding on it. My point was that consoles right now are just very shitty computers, so why would I get rid of my good computer for one? What you're saying is that this one is even more computer than those other shitty computers. Still don't understand why I should get one over my good computer.

The piston may be modular, but its still all proprietary parts, which means that if you're able to upgrade, it will be at a higher cost than for a normal, equally good computer.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

I PERSONALLY WILL BE PLAYING HL3 ON MY Piston, so calm down Krynn :arms:

 

[Krynn72]

I PERSONALLY WILL BE PLAYING HL3 ON MY Piston, so calm down Krynn :arms:

Well duh, its going to be a Piston exclusive.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

*requires piston memory upgrade module (msrp $500) - and subscription to Piston Live.

 

[Pwner523]

PooP

 

[Maestro]

I'm not sure if you're trying to refute something I said, or expanding on it. My point was that consoles right now are just very shitty computers, so why would I get rid of my good computer for one? What you're saying is that this one is even more computer than those other shitty computers. Still don't understand why I should get one over my good computer.

The piston may be modular, but its still all proprietary parts, which means that if you're able to upgrade, it will be at a higher cost than for a normal, equally good computer.

My point is that it has modular upgrades. Consoles at first release, without exception, outperform by a wide margin any PC at the same price point. It's a fact of life. The problem is that they have 5-10 year release cycles, so by the time the new one comes out the old one is comically outdated. The XBox 360 and PS3 beat any PC competitor in 2005, short of a 1500-dollar (or more) dedicated gaming PC. Even then it was a close match, and the 360 and PS3 sold at one third to one fourth the cost. This Piston design could achieve both by not only being very powerful and relatively inexpensive, but also being modularly upgradeable. That would eliminate the upgrade cycles that cripple consoles. It also is going to run on Linux, meaning that the software flexibility will be comparable to a traditional PC, not a traditional console.

I ain't buying one unless it proves to be awesome, but you can't deny it represents a shift in the traditional hardware and firmware development model both technically and in underlying philosophy. This warrants that it not be written off as "just another console," especially given Valve's record of creating products that are very disruptive to the existing ecosystems and market models.

 

[Krynn72]

Well, all that is debatable. My PC was better than the 360 when it came out, and only cost me about $500-$600 for the main components, and while the PS3 was better than my pc, it also cost $600 when it came out, and was being sold at a significant loss for Sony.

That said, I'll concede that this is a shift in console design philosophy, but all the shift is, is a move towards normal desktop computer design. Hardly revolutionary considering that for the same price you can get an equally powerful, yet more capable and more upgradable, normal computer. A grand is not "relatively inexpensive" its more expensive, and modularly upgradeable with custom, proprietary boards still doesn't hold a candle towards individual component upgrades like we already have.

 

[Stigmata]

I think this is more for the kind of person who has an Xbox 360 and a Macbook. "I can do everything my Macbook does, and access a growing library of good games that are cheaper than the ones I already buy, in one machine for a lower cost than my Macbook and console? And I can play it while sitting on the couch? Cool!"

 

[Krynn72]

I think this is more for the kind of person who has an Xbox 360 and a Macbook.

Uhg, the worst kind of people.

"I can do everything my Macbook does, and access a growing library of good games that are cheaper than the ones I already buy, in one machine for a lower cost than my Macbook and console?

So... a computer?

And I can play it while sitting on the couch? Cool!"

This can also be arranged with a computer.

Is there nobody out there that can give me a real reason why you'd buy one of these over a normal PC?

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Same reason people buy Alienware

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Where this shit is really going to fall flat is compatibility with, you know, actual games. Natively running Linux distros is a good idea until you take into consideration that so very few people, including Valve, have good support for Linux thus far as a gaming platform.

If the idea is to keep things more simple then you abandon your core demographic forcing them to format to Windows and the concept is gutted altogether. Valve is not going to bribe AAA developers/publishers into giving a shit about Linux. It's all rather silly.

I am willing to bet Piston will exceed any other console out there.

lol.

 

[Stigmata]

Is there nobody out there that can give me a real reason why you'd buy one of these over a normal PC?

Well for one, a "normal PC" at this price point is going to be total shit as far as gaming goes. You know what comes standard as a graphics card on a $1000 Core-i7 Dell? A ****ing Geforce GT 620, lovingly described with such phrases as "a $99 card that fails to keep Kepler's promise". Sure, you can build a PC yourself, but if you're that kind of person you were never the Steambox's market in the first place. It's not for you and me.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Right, but that's exactly the problem. I don't think these things have a demographic at all.

 

[Krynn72]

You know what comes standard as a graphics card on a $1000 Core-i7 Dell? A ****ing Geforce GT 620

Ok, so these people aren't tech savvy enough to know that they need to find a computer with a decent graphics card, but they are going to be tech savvy enough to be able to use a linux operating system? Okay.

 

[ChiliFan]

Ok, so these people aren't tech savvy enough to know that they need to find a computer with a decent graphics card, but they are going to be tech savvy enough to be able to use a linux operating system? Okay.

Not to mention that presumably they'd need to know about running Windows programs in Linux or dual-booting in order to play the vast majority of games.

 

[Vegeta897]

Valve doesn't need to hear all this, they're highly trained professionals.

But really, don't you think a little faith is called for here? Do you really think Valve totally overlooked something that obvious?

Valve probably has software planned or in the works to make the experience as easy and convenient as possible.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

But really, don't you think a little faith is called for here?

No.

 

[Vegeta897]

I pray for you. Jesus loves you.

 

[Krynn72]

I'm sure valve will do a good job at whatever it is they're trying to do, I just don't understand why they're trying to do it. This is going to appeal to such a tiny, tiny niche in the gaming community. I really do wonder if this is all simply due to Gabe's doomsaying regarding Windows 8.

I still haven't seen any proof that Windows 8 is as bad as he's saying it is. In fact, from what I recall of his grievances with it, most of them have been proven totally unfounded. So his push for Linux seems more like M$ bashing than anything else. Which, hey, I'm all for free OS' becoming more relevant and practical, but at least call it what it is.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

this is all simply due to Gabe's doomsaying regarding Windows 8.

I just can't echo this loudly enough.

 

[ríomhaire]

This is more than trying to get Windows gamers to move to Linux, hardcore PC gamers are probably the last audience they're trying to capture with this (as they already have that market). This is trying to bring console gamers to SteamBox. Yeah most of your Steam Library won't be on it but it is not being set up as the big leap forward to Linux, but a new console launch. What was the Xbox 360's library like at launch? Obviously Valve is not going to be sitting around waiting for publishers to decide to port to Linux, they're going to try and talk them into being launch titles for the SteamBox. They are trying to do Android but for consoles.

So why should you be at all interested then? Because if this is successful it may very well change the PC gaming landscape. You might like what it does or hate it but I'm excited and interested. This SteamBox idea might be to have a big friendly console-like interface but it's still running Linux and you can still dual-boot it with any OS you want. It's still PC gaming but if it's successful it will bring tonnes more people into PC gaming (and obviously into Linux gaming). It will mean a bigger emphasis on making games controller-friendly (again you make like that or not) and massively discourage crap like out-of-game config programmes that require you to get out the mouse. Things that are often seen as console features like split-screen could make their way into PC games in force and if you have friends who you want to play games with online but are console gamers if they get a SteamBox they can play from their couch and have their console experience while you sit at your desk and play with them using a mouse and keyboard.

So yeah, SteamBox is probably not for you but it will affect you if it takes off.

 

[giant384]

This is more than trying to get Windows gamers to move to Linux, hardcore PC gamers are probably the last audience they're trying to capture with this (as they already have that market). This is trying to bring console gamers to SteamBox. Yeah most of your Steam Library won't be on it but it is not being set up as the big leap forward to Linux, but a new console launch. What was the Xbox 360's library like at launch? Obviously Valve is not going to be sitting around waiting for publishers to decide to port to Linux, they're going to try and talk them into being launch titles for the SteamBox. They are trying to do Android but for consoles.

So why should you be at all interested then? Because if this is successful it may very well change the PC gaming landscape. You might like what it does or hate it but I'm excited and interested. This SteamBox idea might be to have a big friendly console-like interface but it's still running Linux and you can still dual-boot it with any OS you want. It's still PC gaming but if it's successful it will bring tonnes more people into PC gaming (and obviously into Linux gaming). It will mean a bigger emphasis on making games controller-friendly (again you make like that or not) and massively discourage crap like out-of-game config programmes that require you to get out the mouse. Things that are often seen as console features like split-screen could make their way into PC games in force and if you have friends who you want to play games with online but are console gamers if they get a SteamBox they can play from their couch and have their console experience while you sit at your desk and play with them using a mouse and keyboard.

So yeah, SteamBox is probably not for you but it will affect you if it takes off.

I think its a starting point for the Steambox, it will bring in others who are tired of Microsoft and Sonys bullshit. I believe this is a great idea that can change the attitude of console gaming and take it to a whole new direction with modular parts. Don't be so negative about it in its infancy, we still know so little about this product.
Also i believe they are going to Linux because why on earth would Microsoft want competition to the Xbox??

 

[AzureNinja99]

That's got to cost a lot of money.