Strange topic

[Mr.Reak]

Okay, there is a lot of rant down there, if you don’t like to read, don’t read. There is no point to this thread, but still I like to discuss some things.


This question goes to normal people:
Majority dictates what is normal, am I right? For example, let’s take a mentally ill guy into example. He thinks that his chair is a rocket, he likes to fly on it. Now, his parents put him into Asylum. Why? Well because we all know, that chair is not a rocket and that kid has some problems. Now, if majority of people believed that chair is a rocket, it would be a rocket, right? I mean, humanity is build on laws that we created ourselves, so we basically dictate our own life, build our own limits, etc. What do you think about it? Is term normal just set by our own standards? By majority at least?

This question goes to the religious people:
Now, what about when you die. Did you ever wonder, is there a heaven and hell? I mean where did all that came from? Did people, like always, forced restrictions on their selves? Why people keep believing in God, when he didn’t show up for the last 2000 years? Why do YOU believe in God? Why also we blame a God for everything bad that happens? Like for World War I\II? I think we did it to ourselves… but still manage to blame someone else.

 

[LoneDeranger]

Yes, what is normal should be dictated by the majority, which is a democracy. If it everyone made up their own rules it would anarchy.

 

[Mitoboy]

Wow, I never thought of those things.

Answer to fisrt question.

Simply put, yes, majority determins what is normal and we dictate our own lives on rules set by the majority. Course, that majority does consider common sense and logic more than anything else.

(Course I could be that uneducated little prick.)

I can't answer the second question.

 

[Mr.Reak]

Originally posted by Mitoboy
Wow, I never thought of those things.

Answer to fisrt question.

Simply put, yes, majority determins what is normal and we dictate our own lives on rules set by the majority. Course, that majority does consider common sense and logic more than anything else.

(Course I could be that uneducated little prick.)

I can't answer the second question.

Good thing you pointed out about common sense and logic. But again, isn’t our common sense and logic based on our own believes? I wonder sometimes, if enough people believe in something, will it start to exist. Then again, this is one of these questions, to which nobody has an answer. .

 

[dawdler]

1) I am the only normal person in the world.
2) Although allmighty, the Allmighty Goddess Pixel isnt responsible for the evil in the world, its the All Out Evil CeeTeeDee that does all the evil stuff. Hell is only a clockcycle away... Heaven is always at 0 A.S. Can only happen once. Now its something like 1145216670286571 A.S. I beleive, its hard to count time in Computanity.

(*A.S. == After Start)

 

[CommieX]

Originally posted by Mr.Reak
This question goes to the religious people:
Now, what about when you die. Did you ever wonder, is there a heaven and hell? I mean where did all that came from? Did people, like always, forced restrictions on their selves? Why people keep believing in God, when he didn’t show up for the last 2000 years? Why do YOU believe in God? Why also we blame a God for everything bad that happens? Like for World War I\II? I think we did it to ourselves… but still manage to blame someone else.

I'm not religious, but it's sort of obvious that people believe in God because that is how they are raised, and also God is an easy way to explain the unexplainable and deal with hardship. I don't really blame people for making up a heaven, because what the hell does happen when you die? It's kind of scary to think about.

 

[dawdler]

and also God is an easy way to explain the unexplainable and deal with hardship

BAH! God cant explain the unexplainable. It would be far to easy. Just like all the UFO sightings being aliens would be a to easy explanation. Mother nature is always more devious than that

 

[Hazza]

For your first point Mr. Reak,
I would like to say, that yes the majority does decide what's normal, which brings up the question what if most people are wrong and the people who are called insane can see something we can't.
What if there are just things we can't normally percieve but these people pick them up and then we lock them away for being crazy.
Aparently my great grandma was crazt BECAUSE they locked her away for being crazy, anyway I'm not going to get into that.
But what I was saying about the crazt people being sane and everyone else being mad, I started thinking about when I was reading Kurt Cobain's "suicide" not and he starts it by addressing it to his childhood imaginary friend, but what if that friend was real and society domanded that he ignore it. I'm not saying it's likely, but it's a pssoibility.
It all comes down to perception, like the possibiltiy that everyone's brain could percieve colours differently, but how would we know that what we think is orange, some-one else doesn't see as what you think it yellow. The only reason we call colours what they are is because thats what we're told to do and you can't get inside some-one else's head to fin out. So you can never know for sure.
For your second point, I don't see how believing in God is any more unusual than not believing in him. We all believe inlife, because we are experiencing it but there's still a possibility that it's not real. We all believe in death because people have seen it happen. Many people believe that after death, there is nothing. That's it, you are gone and that is one way of interprating the information we have, but another way is to say the person has gone to heaven.
I believe that if there isn't a God, the idea works in many ways.
It enforces laws. If people beleive that they will suffer for their sin then they are less likely to commit one and what worse punishment is there than eternal pin and agony in hell?
It's a way of distancing us from the rest of the animal kingdom. It makes us feel that humans are specials and that our rule over the rest of the planet isn't just chance. Also, the rules put forward by most religions distance us from animals by making it a sin to indulge in things which you would mindlessly do as an animal (such as sex before marriage).
Also, the idea of God gives us a purpose and helps to cusion emotional events, such as death. If we think the person has gone to a better place ,we can feel better about them dying.
And finally, religion answers big scary questions that we don't like the scientific answers to, such as what happens after you die and why are we here?
I'm sorry I went on for so long, but that is my understanding of the situation.
Also, if you don't believe in God, then you may be intersted in Stanism, but not the sacrifising animals kind, LaVey satanism, which is basically atheism anyway. It is the religion that Marilyn Manson belongs to, it is called the Church of Satan. It answers many of the questions I have just answered.
Well anyway, that was your conprehensive guide to crazy people and religion.

 

[Fat Tony!]

lol this is sounding like the matrix. what is real could we actually be seeing and feeling what isnt there. Or could we all be seeing the same thing differently but using the same word for it

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Interesting subject here. Also, an interesting post you wrote there Hazza.

Im going to use Christianity here, because thats what i knwo to be true.

I would like to say, that i really doubt anyone here who isnt a Christian, has any understanding of what Christianity is about. Most will have only seen the very religious Catholic/anglican/whatever church type. Thats not wrong, but it really isnt what God wants for us. Many people percieve Christianity as someway of conveniently explaining away things we dont understand. That isnt true. Anyway, isnt any theory just a way of conveniently explaining something until you can find out what is really going on?
Christianity isnt just a way of ignoring things we dont understand. Its simply the truth. I hate to talk about this over the internet, because its like having a wall infront of me. Face to face conversations are so much better. There are many aspects of Christianity that people just ignore. Like people being healed. Just last week, i saw a blind guy get his sight back, someone had some torn muscles in their foot and their heal was moving up the back of their leg. They were healed as well, they ran all over. Has anyone here ever felt Jesus? Something tells me no. Its not something easily describable. You might say that its just my brain playing tricks on me. But there have been times when atheists have felt Jesus, and have let him into their lives. Its something amazing that you have to see for yourself.
One thing that makes it extremely difficult for people to believe in God, in the western world especially. People have been conditioned into a cynical view point. "oh isnt it happy clappy that when we die, we go to a better place?". Maybe it is, but its the truth. Heaven and Hell really do exist. Now i know where im going, and it sure isnt the later.
Someone, i wont say their name. Said to me that Christianity holds back your intelectually development, but quite frankly thats a load of rubbish. The only thing holding you back, is you. I know nothing holds me back from learning new things. And so far, nothing has ever cropped up to disprove my faith. Sure there are plenty of theorys out there about how i might just be wrong. But they arent fact, nothing proven has shown me that im wrong.

Those are some of my thoughts.

Oh and, about the first comment. It is weird how people define normal. Ive always wondered what a sunset looks like to someone else. Or whether is everybodys favourite colour blue, but since we all see differently, we have differnet favourites.

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by Fat Tony!
lol this is sounding like the matrix. what is real could we actually be seeing and feeling what isnt there. Or could we all be seeing the same thing differently but using the same word for it

It comes down to human ego. We THINK everyone sees the world like we (meaning me) do, but the truth is that every animal on earth sees it differently. Further, the world is what exactly? It isnt physical, not really. It is something our brain is telling us we see. You see nerve impulses. Nothing more. You have feeling to confirm that something is there, but then again, that's also nerve impulses. The Matrix COULD be real

Sidenote: Read the Holy TXT for full explanation.

Sidenote2: Crowleys religion is better than Mansons, more sex and less killing

 

[Hazza]

I would like to thank both Forrlesparrow and Dawdler for some intelligent replies. I never said I don't believe in God, infact I am sure that it (trying not to say he) exists, but I don't know whether I believe in many things about Christianity, but I always keep an open mind and I have yet to decide in what form God truly exists. In my post I was putting forward an point which I find very interesting, I wasn't trying to be anti-religion.
Also, I mention the Church of Satan because I think it is widely misunderstood and they deserve their point to be put forward. Also, it is something I am very interested in because I never understood it before, but after reading Marilyn Manson's autobiography I understand much more and find it fasinating. I was also surpirsed to find with this form a Satanism, they believe in the bible but interprate (SP?) it differently.
Anyway I hope this discussion continues and we will see many more intelligent replies.
I used to talk about this stuff on the axisofjustice.com message board but then I used to get so worked up about the closed minded people on there who would just say America rules! let's kill some Iraqis, president Bush told us it was the right thing to do and then they'd tell me how America is the best country in the world and is perfect. Closed mindedness makes me more angry than anything else.

 

[Mr.Magnetichead]

Imagining something like heaven and hell exists does not make it so, we believe something is something when it fits the classification of the thing we believe it to be.

If we cannot measure heaven or even see that it exists it doesnt exist.

 

[dawdler]

Also, I mention the Church of Satan because I think it is widely misunderstood and they deserve their point to be put forward. Also, it is something I am very interested in because I never understood it before, but after reading Marilyn Manson's autobiography I understand much more and find it fasinating. I was also surpirsed to find with this form a Satanism, they believe in the bible but interprate (SP?) it differently.

Satan is always relative... One of the main thing in many satanic beleifs, is that God didnt create the world. It was Satan. But its just a word... So actually, the "Church Of Satan" could easily be translated to "Church of God"

But lets put an end to all the theological blabbering! Lets worship the Allmighty Computer Goddess Pixel, she settles our needs! So sayeth her good user Dawdler in the clock of 26628569602 A.S!! 010100100100010101001010010011110100100101000011010001010010000100100001001000010010000100100001001000010010000100100001!!!!!

 

[Mr.Magnetichead]

No the church of satan and the satanic bible preach about the self and how you shoudl do whatever benefits you in some way.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Originally posted by Mr.Magnetichead
No the church of satan and the satanic bible preach about the self and how you shoudl do whatever benefits you in some way.

<sarcasm> And thats a bloody brillient idea, right there </sarcasm>

I'm sorry to everyone who believes that thats the right way to go, but IMO, that is really really the stupidest widely accepted belief. Thats like Micheal Moore: "The Catholics should just breed until they are the majority in Northern Ireland, and then the problem would be solved".... it really makes no sense. I apologise, again, as I'm about to start ranting here:

The Self... if everyone believed that that was the best thing to benifit, NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN, no medicine until the doctor got sick, and he'd only help you if it benifitted him. Okie, I'm done

 

[Mr.Magnetichead]

Originally posted by mrBadger
<sarcasm> And thats a bloody brillient idea, right there </sarcasm>

I'm sorry to everyone who believes that thats the right way to go, but IMO, that is really really the stupidest widely accepted belief. Thats like Micheal Moore: "The Catholics should just breed until they are the majority in Northern Ireland, and then the problem would be solved".... it really makes no sense. I apologise, again, as I'm about to start ranting here:

The Self... if everyone believed that that was the best thing to benifit, NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN, no medicine until the doctor got sick, and he'd only help you if it benifitted him. Okie, I'm done

Docters develop medicine to line their own pockets, not to help people, they already have cures for alot of diseases kid but they wont release them untill they can make the most money.

Once you get past your tennage angst stage youll see that you have to put up with certain facts in real life.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Pharmaceutical company's are out to make the most money. The people who actually create the drugs do it for others.


MrBadger is right. A world where everyone did everything purely for their benefit wouldn't work. Thats half the reason why its in such a state now. So many people are out for their own skin.

Did you know that every new year, a hundred years ago, a telegram was sent out to everyone in the salvation army, telling them what to do for the year. As time went on, this telegram got shorter and shorter. Until it came down to one word....."Others". If everyone thought that word, things would run so much better. Think about others and how to help others and how much better would the world be?

 

[ComradeBadger]

... funny that. Docters don't make medicine, researchers do, and I was assuming that they were working as hard as possible, I was giving as an example, People don't just do things to help only themselves. And what are these 'facts' btw ... Aid workers..... ultimately they may be helping themselves (because they may one day suffer from whatever)... but they are doing to benifit OTHERS.

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by Mr.Magnetichead
No the church of satan and the satanic bible preach about the self and how you shoudl do whatever benefits you in some way.

I said one of the main things, thats the rest
Having sex with anyone I wish at any time is... tempting... Though the rituals seem very tedius, hehe.

The world would be a very boring place with widespread satanism. We wouldnt get anywhere. The world would likely collapse. Not that its a BAD thing, its just not very good. Diversity is fun. Just look at how boring we would have it without all the religions, all the wars and all the killings. We wouldnt have anything to talk about!

 

[Mr.Magnetichead]

No but instead we could concentrate on evolving as a race.

We would live in a utopian society.

 

[Mr.Magnetichead]

Originally posted by mrBadger
... funny that. Docters don't make medicine, researchers do, and I was assuming that they were working as hard as possible, I was giving as an example, People don't just do things to help only themselves. And what are these 'facts' btw ... Aid workers..... ultimately they may be helping themselves (because they may one day suffer from whatever)... but they are doing to benifit OTHERS.

They do it to feel good about themselves and to make them think they are worth something.

 

[Mr.Magnetichead]

Originally posted by Farrowlesparrow
Pharmaceutical company's are out to make the most money. The people who actually create the drugs do it for others.

Yeah and they jsut give it to then Pharmeceutical companies dont they.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Perhaps they do it because they want to help people. You will probably call that selfish to, if you do then you need to get your definitions right.

if they didnt sell it then they wouldnt be able to do any more research. They get funding to do the reasearch.

Why are you so cynical?

 

[ComradeBadger]

"They do it to feel good about themselves and to make them think they are worth something."

True, lots of people only help becuase they are trying to assuade a guilty conscience. However the ability to actually feel and do something for altruistic reasons is what separates us from animals.

EDIT: Erm, it doesn't matter in this discussion that what the people who are helping people produce ends up corrupted by big corporations.

 

[Hazza]

I would just like to say that I wasn't supporting Satanism in any way, I was just mentioning it as it's always good to look at things from a different perspective.
I think that it is very extreme because they say that religion and society stops you from being the person you really should be and that you should do what you want to do. However, I don't see what they find so wrong with taking parts of society and part of their belief in order to find a more sensible workable religion. Anyway, I think that alot of the members of the religion have had bad pasts and things have affected them which leads them to go out to an extreme.

 

[CommieX]

For all I know, there could be a God, but as I said before, in the long run, I think religion was created to answer questions. Farrowlesparrow, you said that healing is a part of Christianity. These cases were probably natural occurances, but since they seemed so miraculous, you used religion to explain them.

Now here's a question for those of you who are religious: Why would an omnipotent God allow so many people to suffer so horribly, and for that matter, why would He condemn people to a life of eternal damnation for doing wrong? Can God not forgive? I've heard some people explain suffering as God testing their faith. If there is a God, it would seem that he is quite sadistic.

 

[thenerdguy]

Re: Re: Strange topic

Originally posted by CommieX
I'm not religious, but it's sort of obvious that people believe in God because that is how they are raised, and also God is an easy way to explain the unexplainable and deal with hardship. I don't really blame people for making up a heaven, because what the hell does happen when you die? It's kind of scary to think about.

Death is not very scary if you believe in god. But death for someone that does not believe in god is very scary.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Maybe not for you. But many people, yes, yes it is.


You say natural occurances. Pretty convenient timing? Also, there was a man i know. To cut a very long story short. He grew a new stomach. He had gone without one for years and all of a sudden he got a new stomach. He suddenly felt very hungry and it just appeared.

 

[Mr.Magnetichead]

God was made up in order to explain away things people could not understand.

 

[Mr.Magnetichead]

Originally posted by Farrowlesparrow
Maybe not for you. But many people, yes, yes it is.


You say natural occurances. Pretty convenient timing? Also, there was a man i know. To cut a very long story short. He grew a new stomach. He had gone without one for years and all of a sudden he got a new stomach. He suddenly felt very hungry and it just appeared.

No, it appeared and then he felt hungry because it wanted to be full.

 

[FireBall]

Farrow, I disagree very much with your first post. Very much.

First i would like to know what it feels like to "feel Jesus"? Is it like an electrical shock or something and then you hear a voice saying "Its me, Jesus. Go to church more often!"? And how do you explain that those healed people had anything to do with jesus or god? How do you even know they had anything to do with the supernatural at all?

I dont think anyone could ever convince me of gods or jesus' existance. It would need concrete evidence which simply cannot be provided. How do you know heaven and hell exists? Have you seen them? You could say: "I THINK heaven and hell really exists", but to just state it as a fact sounds ridiculus. Do they exist in some other form of reality like another dimension or so, because i sure think we would have spotted it if it were in the sky. My theory is that it was invented so people wouldnt be so afraid of dieing. I mean what makes the atoms which make up our bodies any different from those inside a star somewhere. When we break we cease to function. Thats all there is to it (most probably, you never know, we might become something else but... highly unlikely).

I even think jewism makes more sense than christianism. You still have that Moses parting the water thing but that jesus guy did so much hocus pocus its just too hard to believe.

Well anyways what I was trying to say was: dont blindly believe in stuff you see (like religio-people healing wounds and such). There is always some kind of trick behind it.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

I don't just blindly follow things. I never do that. That would be plain dumb. Why do you think there is always a trick behind it? I'm not talking about a big preacher guy from another country coming over and healing everyone. I'm talking about people i know, doing these things i know to be true. Just because you cant accept it to be the truth, doesn't mean its wrong(i know you might say the same to me but, that doesn't matter right now). In the western(i say that but its not just "the west anymore") people have become very cynical and "anti-spiritual", because they see things like that as relics of old times.
What makes you say there is always some trick behind it? Ive never witnessed trickery (that might be the point you say). Like i say, i know these people, i know they wouldn't lie about this, they are good people. They are telling the truth, you just don't see it. Feeling Jesus is hard to explain. For one thing it might be different ever every person. What about when people hear things from God? Like they get a word about something that will happen to them in the future, or they know something about their past they couldn't possibly know?

To be honest I cannot possibly convince you over the internet, it just doesn't work.

 

[FireBall]

Re: Re: Re: Strange topic

Originally posted by thenerdguy
Death is not very scary if you believe in god. But death for someone that does not believe in god is very scary.

Yes, we live the hard life.
edit2: Well i think you would have a hard time IRL too. Maybe your friend forgot he had an extra stomach? Seriously, things that appear to be impossible usually are. There is no way a magician can make his woman assistant levitate in the air witouth trickery no matter how many times he swings hoola hoops around her.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Originally posted by Mr.Magnetichead
God was made up in order to explain away things people could not understand.

I personally am a atheist, but I think it's kinda interesting that a 'God' figure cropped up in every single culture, even when they hadn't met each other hmmmm, but I don't know, oh, and Satan (when worshipped), is a god, and becomes your god....

Done.

(why do most serious threads always end up in a discussion about religion, no don't answer, it's a retorical question)

 

[Mr.Magnetichead]

Because people are ALL descended from each other in one way or another and everyone as part of human psycology needs to understand why things are as they are, so they all took the base idea of gods and each tribe alterd and changed it over time untill we have religion as it is today.

 

[Mr.Reak]

Farrow:

My friends call me Fallen Christian, I will explain why.

When I was 8 years old, my mother died, when I was 11 years old my sister died, when I was 14 my brother died. So I have only a father now. Back in Russia I always prayed, I even went to church. After these events, I never blamed a God; I just thought he doesn’t listen to us anymore. I think he stopped listening to us after we, humans, put his son on the cross. I for one started to question every religion on the Earth. I don’t think God ever wanted us to build churches for him, to worship, to convert others, I even think we invented religion, bible, etc.. I don’t think he created us to make up bunch of rules and watch us kill each other. I abounded religion, but I believe in God. I never seen a miracle in my life, I never heard God speaking to me, but I asked him to, a lot, after my mother death. Plus after I read about what religious people did in the past, I was disgust with everything, I hated to be a Christian for one.

I don’t live by a bible anymore, I just try to be a kind person in real life, this why I have many different friends. When I die, we will see what happen. That’s why I asked about being a normal person, majority doesn’t dictate how to believe in God, for me at least.

 

[CommieX]

Farrowlesparrow: Do you feel that all other religions are wrong? How can they all be correct and who's to say which makes more sense than the others? How does Christianity make any more sense than the ancient polytheistic Greek religion? I don't understand why people think that older religions of more primitive societies are rediculous and wrong but current religions somehow make sense.

I believe that religious people are living a lie. You can either choose to candy-coat the world or choose to face the truth. The truth is, we don't know how the universe came to be nor do we know what happens after death. Then again, anything is possible and we are all entitled to our opinions but this is what I think.

 

[Lordblackadder]

What if you're perfectly normal, but are walking through an asylum.

 

[Mr.Reak]

Originally posted by Lordblackadder
What if you're perfectly normal, but are walking through an asylum.

That’s the point, we believe what we see, what we don’t see, we question at some point in our life.