the Art of Driving an automobile

The people that pull out in front of me, invariably female.

The people that cut me off, invariably male.

The people that are generally stupid and crappy drivers are usually women or old, or a mix.

The people that are generally obnoxious morons that do jackass stuff, are males.

I've gotten in more near-crashes with women then men. They're terrible drivers, they ignore stop signs, and I hate the look of "you ****ing dumbass" when I almost crash into them because they missed a stop sign.
 
MiccyNarc said:
The people that pull out in front of me, invariably female.

The people that cut me off, invariably male.

The people that are generally stupid and crappy drivers are usually women or old, or a mix.

The people that are generally obnoxious morons that do jackass stuff, are males.

I've gotten in more near-crashes with women then men. They're terrible drivers, they ignore stop signs, and I hate the look of "you ****ing dumbass" when I almost crash into them because they missed a stop sign.
Click to expand...

I dunno if you read it, but you just summed up my post nicely.
 
Here is some actual good driving from the Saab performance team
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBwErv0Bsg4[/YOUTUBE]
 
CptStern said:
I myself have driven in a company van half on a side walk half on the front lawns of neighbours hitting garbage cans while blaring Van halen drunk out of our minds
.
.
.
I've been driving longer than some of you have been alive and I can say in my expreience everyone sucks except for me
Click to expand...

Just thought I would call you out on that one.


EDIT: Doh, I was beaten to it.
 
CptStern said:
that's some handy dandy source work there; you managed to support both of our opinions :)
Click to expand...

Hehe, my opinion is that we both suck in different ways, and the source backs me up nicely :)
 
Aren't Saab 9-3's just re-moulded Vectras? :D Nice driving there anyway.
 
I have a list of drivers who are **** tards to me on the road. My dad passed this knowledge onto me (and is true) so take note:
  1. Anybody talking on a cellphone is an asshole.
  2. Anybody with a motorcycle is an attention whore and has a beer gut.
  3. Anybody who is on a cellphone goes super slow.
  4. Old people go slow.
  5. Jeep drivers like to cut you off.
  6. SUV drivers cannot park, speed, and are generally the first people to crash in an ice storm. They think their car is 4x4 so they can handle it.
  7. Construction workers WILL drop crap out of their truck.
  8. Anybody with a modded out coffee can exhaust avoid (and will be in the high speed lane).
  9. 90% of cars in the high speed lane are tiny cars.
  10. Most people who get pulled over are in the high speed lane.
  11. Truck drivers WILL pull out suddenly out of a rest stop.
  12. People who have tech jobs will speed and cut you off and usually tailgate other tech job people.
  13. People in Westford, MA will always cut you off.
  14. People in Lowell, MA have ghetto cars.
  15. People who look tired or female drivers go the speed limit or 5 MPH under the speed limit. Cops will never pull over people going 5-10 MPH over the speed limit.
  16. Trash trucks stink and will brake hard making skid marks all over you neighborhood in the same exact place, week after week.
  17. Trucks/cars that go slow and do not gain momentum before a large hill, WATCH OUT! They will go dangerously slow and people will swerve to avoid them.
  18. Woman/yuppies do not gain speed before getting out of the break down lane! :thumbs:
If you find anymore, please add to the list!
 
CptStern said:
you miss my point: drive as if everyone else is retarded that way you're always on your guard
Click to expand...

I thought everyone WAS retarded....:D



#19. Anyone with a pimped out Honda Civic is usually hispanic, look for sideways hat
 
lePobz said:
Aren't Saab 9-3's just re-moulded Vectras? :D Nice driving there anyway.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about Saab post-GM or pre-GM?

The engine itself is what really amazes me. The low-end torque on the thing is just phenomenal.
 
I've now had two older model Saab 9000s, one turbo and one non. While I've been more consistently impressed with their durable engineering (you wouldn't believe what mine have survived), their performance given their age and style has also impressed me.
For a stock five door wagon from two decades ago they exhibit some very precise turning and great control over body roll. During high school there were of course that segment of people with modified Hondas and the like who would go roaring around the typical New England roads. Many of them could both go faster and accelerate better than me, but very few could maneuver as precisely or come out of a turn faster.

Oh, and they're good in the snow too. :D
 
Direwolf said:
I've now had two older model Saab 9000s, one turbo and one non. While I've been more consistently impressed with their durable engineering (you wouldn't believe what mine have survived), their performance given their age and style has also impressed me.
For a stock five door wagon from two decades ago they exhibit some very precise turning and great control over body roll. During high school there were of course that segment of people with modified Hondas and the like who would go roaring around the typical New England roads. Many of them could both go faster and accelerate better than me, but very few could maneuver as precisely or come out of a turn faster.

Oh, and they're good in the snow too. :D
Click to expand...

How are they on repairs? I've been looking for a replacement to my 99 Passat and the 9000 is pretty low in price. Doesn't hurt that they made the Aero engine stock on the 98 model. I've heard the 9000 has ridiculous torque steer, too.
 
As I mentioned mine are both older models (86 and 92 respectively), so I can't comment on newer ones. I've never had any real issues with torque steer as long as the steering pump is functioning correctly (I have had problems with those but they were due to the age of the car).

Parts are widely available, especially on the internet, and are about on par for a foreign car around here. They don't spike as high as buying something for a BMW, but they're not as common and cheap as Ford. My experiences repairing mine have been almost uniformly positive.

My first had seen years of rather massive abuse and was not functional when I got it. A bit of messing with the fuel control got it on the road again, and with some work it stayed there for five more years until the transmission gave up the ghost. When it died we bought another, stripped the old one for parts, and have been using those to upkeep and repair the new one.
Between the two over the years I've pulled ever normal maintenance you can think of from oil changes to brake refittings without any real complaints. On the major front I've replaced an alternator, head gasket, muffling system, front axles, brake rotors, distributor, thermostat, timing chain, headlights, turn lights, heating core, and headlight relays. I've also done work with pretty much every bit of linkage on the car. That might sound like a lot, but these were cars sold at minimum price (the first was actually free to whoever would get rid of it). Some of those replacements were harder than others, but I've always been impressed with the durability and engineering on the parts when compared to other makes and models I've worked on.

Being a Saab its got quirks you'll either love or hate (in-dash...clock?) Its not going to be as small and light as the Passat, but its something quick and fun that just happens to be able to move a loveseat too.
 
Taxman, in that first video(tunnel one), do you know who sings that song?
 
Core407 said:
You're crazy! The old 9-3 Viggens were some legendary cars.
Click to expand...

I'm sure they were great, as the line continues to be produced, but a performance standard, they are not.

The old 93s are ugly as sin, too.

^And this is coming from a Subaru loyal.

Subaru: The king of ugly sedans and coupes.
 
_Z_Ryuken said:
I'm sure they were great, as the line continues to be produced, but a performance standard, they are not.

The old 93s are ugly as sin, too.

^And this is coming from a Subaru loyal.

Subaru: The king of ugly sedans and coupes.
Click to expand...

Performance compared to what? If its other cars in its segment than I'd have to disagree.

A 2000 Saab 9-3 Viggen puts out some serious torques; 258 @ 2500 RPM to be exact and it does 0-60 in 6 seconds flat. You'd be hardpressed to find any 2000 3 series of A4 that could put up those numbers.

I do agree that the 9-3 is ugly as sin, but the Viggen is pretty nice with the upgraded cosmetics.
 
I think the new ones look great. They are nice looking cars.
When you said "old" I thought old as in 80s models. Those were hideous.

---
Anyways, like I said, I'm a Subaru guy.

Saab 9-3 powerplants:

* 2.0 L B204 I4, 138 hp ECE (1998-1999)
* 2.0 L B204 I4, turbo, 185 hp ECE (136 kW) (1998-1999)
* 2.0 L B205 I4, turbo, 185 hp ECE (136 kW) (2000-2002)
* 2.0 L B205E (non-US) I4, LPT(light pressure turbo), 150 hp ECE (110 kW) (2000-2002)
* 2.0 L B205R I4, turbo, 205 hp ECE (151 kW) (1999-2003)
* 2.3 L B235R I4, turbo, 230 hp ECE (169 kW) (1999-2002)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_9-3

By comparison, Subaru's Impreza engines put out considerably more power per liter. Wiki does not have a convenient chart for me to copy paste, so I'll use 1998 and 2002 J-spec models to compare. They are similar to UK, and US did not get them until 2002.

* 2.0 L EJ20 H4, turbo, 276 hp EFI (206 kW) (1997-1998)
* 2.0 L EJ205 H4, turbo, 246 hp EFI (184 kW) (2001-2002)
* 2.0 L EJ205 H4, turbo, 227 hp EFI (169 kW) (2002, US Spec)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Impreza_WRX
Even the best 2.0L 9-3 of 1999-2003 makes less power than the severely detuned US market 2002 WRX.

These figures are taken from petrol engines.
I assume you took your figure from the 2.8 diesel, but I'll slap a great frown upon my own face a la Jeremy CLarkson when someone mentions the word "deisel". All deisels are known to produce substantially more torque then petrol engines. Even SOHC engines produce more torque than horsepower, yet DOHC is still the standard as well as petrol.
-
I don't want to ramble on about this as it is slightly off topic, but let me just point out what engine the Saab 9-2x uses. ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_9-2x

---

I'm not trying to disrespect on Saabs. I have always liked them. I'm just saying as far as performance is concerned... there are better cars out there.
 
Of course, its more about being well-rounded and useful than it is about being the fastest thing on the road. And wasn't the 9-2X just an Impreza with a new look?
 
Yeah basically. Wiki also says the suspension was different.

And the WRX is FAAAAAAR from being the fastest thing on the road, but it is both well-rounded and useful, depending on trim. :D

The new 2006 models are even better and underrated, coming in at over 230hp/236tq, as well as having superb chassis and suspension, bulletproof engines and drivetrains.

One thing though, I do not find them comfortable. At all. I hate them. ):
 
_Z_Ryuken said:
I think the new ones look great. They are nice looking cars.
When you said "old" I thought old as in 80s models. Those were hideous.

---
Anyways, like I said, I'm a Subaru guy.

Saab 9-3 powerplants:

* 2.0 L B204 I4, 138 hp ECE (1998-1999)
* 2.0 L B204 I4, turbo, 185 hp ECE (136 kW) (1998-1999)
* 2.0 L B205 I4, turbo, 185 hp ECE (136 kW) (2000-2002)
* 2.0 L B205E (non-US) I4, LPT(light pressure turbo), 150 hp ECE (110 kW) (2000-2002)
* 2.0 L B205R I4, turbo, 205 hp ECE (151 kW) (1999-2003)
* 2.3 L B235R I4, turbo, 230 hp ECE (169 kW) (1999-2002)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_9-3

By comparison, Subaru's Impreza engines put out considerably more power per liter. Wiki does not have a convenient chart for me to copy paste, so I'll use 1998 and 2002 J-spec models to compare. They are similar to UK, and US did not get them until 2002.

* 2.0 L EJ20 H4, turbo, 276 hp EFI (206 kW) (1997-1998)
* 2.0 L EJ205 H4, turbo, 246 hp EFI (184 kW) (2001-2002)
* 2.0 L EJ205 H4, turbo, 227 hp EFI (169 kW) (2002, US Spec)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Impreza_WRX
Even the best 2.0L 9-3 of 1999-2003 makes less power than the severely detuned US market 2002 WRX.

These figures are taken from petrol engines.
I assume you took your figure from the 2.8 diesel, but I'll slap a great frown upon my own face a la Jeremy CLarkson when someone mentions the word "deisel". All deisels are known to produce substantially more torque then petrol engines. Even SOHC engines produce more torque than horsepower, yet DOHC is still the standard as well as petrol.
-
I don't want to ramble on about this as it is slightly off topic, but let me just point out what engine the Saab 9-2x uses. ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_9-2x

---

I'm not trying to disrespect on Saabs. I have always liked them. I'm just saying as far as performance is concerned... there are better cars out there.
Click to expand...

The cars are in 2 different segments. :| When you said it underperforms, I figured you meant in the luxury-sedan market.

Edit: No diesel. Saab just loves their 4 cylinder turbo engines. :D :D :D

Saab blows since the buyout and what is this JSpec shit? An Impreza from 00 has 168HP max.
 
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