el Chi
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I'm going to start by apologising if I've started this thread in the wrong folder. Whilst primarily it's about religion, it concerns the problems where religion and politics meet.
I've just finished watching the marvellous Channel Four TV program The Doomsday Code, presented by Tony Robinson (with any luck it'll be on YouTube or whatever at some point), and I've found myself in a state of mind whereby I have never been more incensed with religion and the religious. I am not a religious person, but I like to consider myself as being - within reason - tolerant of the views of others. If someone else is religious, fine; if it gets them through the day, fine; I really don't care - if they don't bother me with it, I shan't bother them with my atheism.
So far be it from me to transpose my grievances onto all religious people, but... Well, bear with me.
The program concerned the rising interest in fundamentalist Christians with the visions of the end of the world as depicted in the Book of Revelation, towards the end of the Bible.
The general idea is that these "End-timers", as they like to be referred to, are, every day, desperately awaiting the rapture, when the righteous get wafted up to Heaven and the rest of us heathens are left here to face torments, trials and the wrath of a supposedly all-loving God manifesting itself in unimaginable horror for the better part of a decade.
To hope for such a thing and not get it each day must be to live in a constant state of anxiety and depression, but that's not my point.
The point is that they see certain events – natural disasters such as the recent Pakistani earthquakes – and decide that these are signs. If the signs of an impending Judgement Day are there, preparation in their eyes includes converting people of other (usually desperate third world) nations and, most worryingly, speeding up the process.
This extends to fully acknowledging global warming, but interpreting it as the will of God. Therefore, causing pollution is not their right as the members of a wealthy, affluent nation, but their duty as good Christians.
This extends to supporting Israel, not because they feel the Jews have been historically hard done by, but because a war between Judaism and Islam unsettles the world balance and brings us one step closer to annihilation.
This extends to supporting the war in Iraq, not because they felt that the Iraqi people needed to be freed and be democratic, but because once again, this causes an unsettled, crisis-ridden world.
Both the last two also have the added benefit of weakening Islam, as it is the (current) perceived big threat to the world and particularly to Israel. It is apparently said that, after the rapture when the righteous have departed, that Israel will be attacked and from that, apocalyptic events will begin. If the aggressor is interpreted to be Islam (as it is currently, although there have been many predecessors) then Israel is not only right in having the nuclear bomb, but practically required to have it, so that the prophecy can be fulfilled.
The program addresses the notion of the Anti-Christ which has different manifestations, depending on the timeframe one lived in. In the early days of Christianity, it was the Roman Empire; in the Cold War it was the USSR and China; nowadays many end-timers perceive the platform for the anti-Christ to be the UN and the anti-Christ himself to be Kofi Annan.
If this were just a bunch of fanatical nobodies, then it would all be fine (in a manner of speaking), but they’re not. Many of these fundamentalists are in positions of great power, both political and military, as stated by one of the end-timer preachers in the documentary.
So if some of the most powerful people are making decisions with the idea in their heads that the ultimate, best goal is actually to bring about the end of the world, or at least kick it all off, then these are undoubtedly the most dangerous people on the planet.
Religion and politics should never be mixed and I can think of no better example than this.
If wars are encouraged because of this idea and international co-habitation, dialogue and stability spurned because they will put off the second coming of Christ, what hope is there for any of us?
As the program noted; with people of such power being of this kind of mentality, the end of the world a self-fulfilling prophecy.
No more waiting around.
Another awful consequence of end-timer ideology was not only the support of war and pollution, but of cultivating an acceptance of desperation in third world nations.
Robinson visited Uganda where many evangelical missionaries were converting Ugandan nationals, advising them not to lament the poor quality of their lives, but instead to accept Jesus and pray for the rapture.
The result of this is that many children are taken out of school – there’s no point in learning about anything other than Christ when the rapture could happen at any moment. Why bother putting lots of effort into building roads or planting crops when prayer is needed?
Those were not specifically Robinson’s conclusions, but particularly those of the editor of one of Uganda’s national papers – day after day he saw the damage such belief and resulting lack of initiative was doing and how it was growing in popularity.
It’s insane and it’s deeply depressing that some of the poorest people in the world can be actively discouraged from attempting to improve their lives. I find it mind-boggling that there are people who have seen it their duty to go thousands of miles to tell people to wait for death with hope in their hearts.
I have a friend who has over the last year deemed himself a fundamentalist atheist. A fan of such atheist philosophers as Richard Dawkins, he has no time whatsoever for religion or spirituality and actively thinks it should be done away with. He won’t ignore anyone who’s religious, but if they try to talk about religion he will become very irate and, being a good debater, will probably run them into the ground.
Usually I’d tell him just to ignore it and calm down. However, when there are people out there whose agenda it is to hurry along the end of the world, I find myself more and more drawn to his line of thinking; increasingly repulsed and infuriated.
Reading this back, parts sound a tad like the ramblings of a conspiracy theorist. The program itself was not truly like that and clearly I’m not doing it justice – but humour me.
I've just finished watching the marvellous Channel Four TV program The Doomsday Code, presented by Tony Robinson (with any luck it'll be on YouTube or whatever at some point), and I've found myself in a state of mind whereby I have never been more incensed with religion and the religious. I am not a religious person, but I like to consider myself as being - within reason - tolerant of the views of others. If someone else is religious, fine; if it gets them through the day, fine; I really don't care - if they don't bother me with it, I shan't bother them with my atheism.
So far be it from me to transpose my grievances onto all religious people, but... Well, bear with me.
The program concerned the rising interest in fundamentalist Christians with the visions of the end of the world as depicted in the Book of Revelation, towards the end of the Bible.
The general idea is that these "End-timers", as they like to be referred to, are, every day, desperately awaiting the rapture, when the righteous get wafted up to Heaven and the rest of us heathens are left here to face torments, trials and the wrath of a supposedly all-loving God manifesting itself in unimaginable horror for the better part of a decade.
To hope for such a thing and not get it each day must be to live in a constant state of anxiety and depression, but that's not my point.
The point is that they see certain events – natural disasters such as the recent Pakistani earthquakes – and decide that these are signs. If the signs of an impending Judgement Day are there, preparation in their eyes includes converting people of other (usually desperate third world) nations and, most worryingly, speeding up the process.
This extends to fully acknowledging global warming, but interpreting it as the will of God. Therefore, causing pollution is not their right as the members of a wealthy, affluent nation, but their duty as good Christians.
This extends to supporting Israel, not because they feel the Jews have been historically hard done by, but because a war between Judaism and Islam unsettles the world balance and brings us one step closer to annihilation.
This extends to supporting the war in Iraq, not because they felt that the Iraqi people needed to be freed and be democratic, but because once again, this causes an unsettled, crisis-ridden world.
Both the last two also have the added benefit of weakening Islam, as it is the (current) perceived big threat to the world and particularly to Israel. It is apparently said that, after the rapture when the righteous have departed, that Israel will be attacked and from that, apocalyptic events will begin. If the aggressor is interpreted to be Islam (as it is currently, although there have been many predecessors) then Israel is not only right in having the nuclear bomb, but practically required to have it, so that the prophecy can be fulfilled.
The program addresses the notion of the Anti-Christ which has different manifestations, depending on the timeframe one lived in. In the early days of Christianity, it was the Roman Empire; in the Cold War it was the USSR and China; nowadays many end-timers perceive the platform for the anti-Christ to be the UN and the anti-Christ himself to be Kofi Annan.
If this were just a bunch of fanatical nobodies, then it would all be fine (in a manner of speaking), but they’re not. Many of these fundamentalists are in positions of great power, both political and military, as stated by one of the end-timer preachers in the documentary.
So if some of the most powerful people are making decisions with the idea in their heads that the ultimate, best goal is actually to bring about the end of the world, or at least kick it all off, then these are undoubtedly the most dangerous people on the planet.
Religion and politics should never be mixed and I can think of no better example than this.
If wars are encouraged because of this idea and international co-habitation, dialogue and stability spurned because they will put off the second coming of Christ, what hope is there for any of us?
As the program noted; with people of such power being of this kind of mentality, the end of the world a self-fulfilling prophecy.
No more waiting around.
Another awful consequence of end-timer ideology was not only the support of war and pollution, but of cultivating an acceptance of desperation in third world nations.
Robinson visited Uganda where many evangelical missionaries were converting Ugandan nationals, advising them not to lament the poor quality of their lives, but instead to accept Jesus and pray for the rapture.
The result of this is that many children are taken out of school – there’s no point in learning about anything other than Christ when the rapture could happen at any moment. Why bother putting lots of effort into building roads or planting crops when prayer is needed?
Those were not specifically Robinson’s conclusions, but particularly those of the editor of one of Uganda’s national papers – day after day he saw the damage such belief and resulting lack of initiative was doing and how it was growing in popularity.
It’s insane and it’s deeply depressing that some of the poorest people in the world can be actively discouraged from attempting to improve their lives. I find it mind-boggling that there are people who have seen it their duty to go thousands of miles to tell people to wait for death with hope in their hearts.
I have a friend who has over the last year deemed himself a fundamentalist atheist. A fan of such atheist philosophers as Richard Dawkins, he has no time whatsoever for religion or spirituality and actively thinks it should be done away with. He won’t ignore anyone who’s religious, but if they try to talk about religion he will become very irate and, being a good debater, will probably run them into the ground.
Usually I’d tell him just to ignore it and calm down. However, when there are people out there whose agenda it is to hurry along the end of the world, I find myself more and more drawn to his line of thinking; increasingly repulsed and infuriated.
Reading this back, parts sound a tad like the ramblings of a conspiracy theorist. The program itself was not truly like that and clearly I’m not doing it justice – but humour me.
) times.
