UnrealEd and Hammer

[ManHacks]

hey, i would love to start mapping for HL2, but im totaly new to hammer. Is it fairly similar to UnrealEd, i know that program very well. Would i be able to to jumo into hammer 2 and know kinda whats going on? Or will it be totaly different? Are there actors and things like that in Hammer? Thanks guys.

 

[FictiousWill]

Unreal ed is a very unified solution, very very very elegantly done. Hammer (at least for HL1) is more hacked-together yet noob-friendly, and gets more frustrating as you try to do more complicated stuff, and if you want to do really complex stuff you have to mod/hack it in. Hopefully Hammer for HL2 is really the source engine with editing tool bars and open scripts, much the same way unrealed runs the (gasp) unreal engine right there for you to see, everything available. We don't know much about Hammer for HL2, so we'll have to wait and see how tied into the engine it is.

 

[Dux]

If you know how to use Hammer to it's absolute limits then you can pull off some very impressive architecture for a dog of an engine. UnrealEd's design I dislike. It's clunky and poorly layed out for speed use and it's building basis is a pain in the ass. But that being said - if you have the patience to use it and can live with it's clunkyness then it's pretty solid.

I've been using Worldcraft/Hammer for over 5 years and I'm still constantly surpirsed at what can be produced with it.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

If you want to get into Hl2 mapping, then just starting learning how to use the current hammer. They are said to be very similar...Its the best option really.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

The only limitation in Hammer is the inability to make non-convex brushes. Once you've got used to that mindest, there's no limitations.

I actually bought Worldcraft back in 1996...

 

[Shinobi]

biggest main thing for leve lediting between hamemr and unreal ed is that in hammer you build ina void, in unrealed you carve out from solids

 

[FictiousWill]

Yeah it takes a bit of mindbending to get used to the unreal-esque carving method, but the benefit = no leaks!

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Pfft, a talented mapper doesn't get leaks

 

[ManHacks]

alright thanks, ill download the current hammer and mess around with it. I have tons of idea's, i cant wait

 

[dassbaba]

bah, i hope it's not as bad as the horrible doom 3 editor

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Why what is that like?

 

[Kyorisu]

Why what is that like?

Disturbing, and I'm not going to touch that thing with a 12 foot long pole. (Can't exactly go into details only looked at it for 5 mins) Meanwhile I can use Hammer, Unreal ED and Chrome ED with no problems.

 

[FragBait0]

I gave up on UnrealEd when I couldn't figure out in 20 minutes how to actually get that cube to stay there when I clicked abother button...

Hammer is great - runs fast, starts fast. Easy to figure out. Even better the help actually helps you and provides linkage to the right places. (Well it used to. Dosen't It point to www.valve-erc.com?)

UnrealEd does do everything but then it is the Unreal Editor, Hammer is the mapping tool. Not textures, scripting (unreal) or anything else. And it does that exceedingly well. Okay no convex brushes - thats part of the engine and compile tools. Trivial really.

 

[FictiousWill]

iirc, Doom3 is 'portal-based' and doesn't use bsps?

 

[blahblahblah]

bah, i hope it's not as bad as the horrible doom 3 editor

I'm learning to map on the Doom 3 editor. It would be a good editor if it wasn't for all of the missing textures and occasional crashes. People are knocking it because it is so different from Hammer and other Radiant editors.

iirc, Doom3 is 'portal-based' and doesn't use bsps?

I honestly have no idea what a bsp is, but I have to bsp in Doom 3 to compile (and check for leaks).

Would it be a big change to go from the Doom 3 editor to the Hammer2 editor when it comes out? Should most of the fundamentals be the same, or is it going to be completely different?

 

[Korgoth]

If you know how to use Hammer to it's absolute limits then you can pull off some very impressive architecture for a dog of an engine. UnrealEd's design I dislike. It's clunky and poorly layed out for speed use and it's building basis is a pain in the ass. But that being said - if you have the patience to use it and can live with it's clunkyness then it's pretty solid.

I've been using Worldcraft/Hammer for over 5 years and I'm still constantly surpirsed at what can be produced with it.

Are you kidding? Slow and clunky? my friend here is all you need

CTRL-S
CTRL-A
Shift+W
and right click>snap pivot here... super quick, and vertex editing is a snap, heheh ok poor attempt at a pun, but its freakin' sweet.. I'd say my workflow in UED is 5x that of max when it comes to architecture type stuff/terrain/texturing...
My only gripe is navigating in the viewports, i get so mixed up alt tabbing back and fourth from max to UED and trying to remember what pans, zooms, and dollys

 

[HatRabit]

yeh, ued is fun because you can create pretty much anything you want without changing code and stuff. only thing its missing is bumpmaps :'(

 

[Dux]

Are you kidding? Slow and clunky? my friend here is all you need

CTRL-S
CTRL-A
Shift+W
and right click>snap pivot here... super quick, and vertex editing is a snap, heheh ok poor attempt at a pun, but its freakin' sweet.. I'd say my workflow in UED is 5x that of max when it comes to architecture type stuff/terrain/texturing...
My only gripe is navigating in the viewports, i get so mixed up alt tabbing back and fourth from max to UED and trying to remember what pans, zooms, and dollys

I am aware of most of the shortcuts. I started using Unreal Ed when Unreal was first released - but I still find it clunky.

 

[Radeon]

I have the best workflow in Hammer to, have been doing maps for both doom3, quake 3 and ut2003 to but it's just faster when working with Hammer and i relly like the interface and the way it handles.

 

[FragBait0]

Let's contract valve to make a Hammer for unreal, q3a and doom 3.

Ah even better rather than doing the "buy valve lunch" why not "buy Hammer source code"?

 

[StardogChampion]

UnrealEd - I could make a 100 roomed apartment complex 10x faster in this engine than in Radiant of Hammer. Subtract a huge box for your level, add a block then subract rooms from it. Every touching face is automatically "caulked" by the engine. I'd say the Unreal engine easily the fastest for indoor/coridoor type areas due to the subraction method it uses.

UnrealEd also has a pretty awesome terrain editor. Importing custom models/textures is insanely fast. You don't have to create .wad files or shader files, and when you save your level all your textures/models are saved inside the map file. Also, you get to preview your lighting which is a MUST for every engine after this one.

Radiant and Hammer - To make an apartment would take a while due to you having to add every wall there is. Making a wall with a door in the middle requires you to add 3 brushes, whereas in UnrealEd it's just an add for the wall, then a subract for the doorway (2 brushes). It automatically splits the BSP for you. Then you have to go around Caulking the unseen faces unless you built it from Caulk originally.

Does Hammer use Caulk? It's been a while since i've used it...

Here's my order of preference:
UnrealEd
Radiant
Hammer

I'd say UnrealEd is the highest quality editor, it looks like some 3d modelling application rather than a map editor.

Also, there's nothing wrong with the D3 editor, just because the windows aren't all nicely docked people get scared and run away...

 

[Bigcheese]

lol woot for unreal.

if half life 2 used subtraction stuff i would leav unreal... but i dont think it dose soooo

also modding in unreal is 100x ezer, in half life if you just wanted to have 101 heath insted of 100 you would have to make a compleetly new game that takes up a lot of space. but in unreal you just make a 1kb mutator and everything is happy

but also unreal scrip runs 20x slower than c++ so there is a trade off but i still like unreal more

 

[2d-chris]

If your planning on making skilled hl2 levels, it's best to get some good knowledge of Hammer for hl1. Then after you get to know your way around the tool start playing around with UnrealED.

Unreal ed will help you understand lighting much better, aswell as importing things like prop models, terrain tool and using ambient sounds much more effectivly.

Modding for Unreal engine is not easy by any means, compared to hl it's rocket science coding wise. If you have any experiance converting between level editors is easy.

 

[Telumehtar]

I think it's fair to say that both editors have their advantages and disadvantages - for the most part, they are mainly just 'different', and I wouldn't say that either was better or worse when you get used to them both.

However, I really appreciated the 'Hollow Sculpting' method of creating levels in UnrealEd - it's really neat and produces very tidy levels with no fear of creating leaks. In a similar manner however, I prefer Hammer for creating outside environments. And yes - I would say that UnrealEd is clunky

As for Mutators - I appreciate that they are quicker to slap together, but I think the Unreal System of bitty-mods is quite messy, and I feel much more secure running and installing a HL mod. As for coding - I also much prefer compiling something neat in C++ than having some Unreal Script that I made in, what I feel to be, mostly a Map Editor.

Still - I definately look forward to seeing the Half-Life 2 Editor, and I hope that it's quite nice with 'fgd' style support for mods. I adored being able to make a 'mapper pack' for mods, and just distributing those to mappers.

 

[arx]

I'm not so sure hammer is the best. Like for me better way is to shape maps in GtkRadiant (there's a lot of more options), and then create entities and textures in Hammer.

 

[selfdestruct]

Hammer is more stable, easier to learn, and cleaner. It's hard to do complex architecture with though - UnrealED is way buggier, more confusing, and jumbled, but more powerful.

At least thats what I think.

 

[FragBait0]

Either way. UED is for UT and Hammer is for Half-Life. Things are the way they are and that situation is not likley to change soon.

 

[2d-chris]

Unreal ED is a man toy, Hammer is a boys toy atm, the new hammer uses ideas from Unreal ED quite simply because Unreal ED gives modren level designers the tools they need. It's not bugy, only if you do somethin wrong it might crash

Only thing i prefer in hammer is the way of creating BSP, dragging your sized brush and the clip/vertex tool. No doubt the hl2 hammers terrain tool and editor will be buggy you should have seen the older version of hamemr :X

 

[Dux]

2.0 and below was Hardcore!

 

[Shinobi]

it's not like unrealed invented the concept of static meshes,, every engine leans that way

 

[Letters]

One thing I don't see being mentioned... camera controls! God, I love UED's scheme! Hammer's is crap. ;(

 

[Dux]

One thing I don't see being mentioned... camera controls! God, I love UED's scheme! Hammer's is crap. ;(

Buuuuh?! Man, you are seriously backwards.