Weapon Balancing - Suggestions

[Pibborando San]

So, I've played DoD:S for more than few hours since it was released yesterday, and I've had a lot of fun with it. Graphics = great, sound = uber-great, and HDR = omg nerdgasm.

Despite it being a pretty solid package, there are still things, I feel, that could be improved, specifically with the weapons/classes.

This thread is for suggestions for changes or adjustments that you would like to see made to the weapons/classes for better balance, and better gameplay in general.

Here are mine:

Rifleman - Status: Underpowered
Not having a pistol or the ability for some rifle-butt to the face action limits the Rifleman's affectiveness IMO. Rifle grenades are a cool trade-off, but I have a possible solution. I say that we should be able to choose between either a pistol or rifle grenades when we select Rifleman. This would accomidate more play styles and add some more tactics to the mix. I also think that the iron-sight mode is next to useless. With this game's fast pace, having the iron-sights be as slow and clumsy as they are doesn't help the Rifleman at all.

SMG - Status: Well Overpowered
The SMGs are down right rediculace. They are super fast, while being quite easy to control and quite accurate. I was surprised how easy it was to kill people with the Tompson, even at long range. And in close quarters? Well, they just dominate. And on top of that, you get a smoke AND frag grenade? Please.

Support - Status: Just right
I don't see anything too good or bad about this class. It feels fine to me.

Sniper - Status: Undecided
I was surprised at just how long it took to get in and out of scoped mode on the sniper rifles. Definately longer than any other game I've played, but I'm not sure whether this is good or bad. It can be bad because it's very hard to react quickly. But I can see it as a good thing, because now maybe more people will use the sniper class like... oh I don't know, snipers! instead of rushing into battle and popping off headshots in split-second time (ala CS:S).

Machine Gunner - Status: Overpowered
The main problem with the MG class is how fast you can deploy and how little recoil their is once it's deployed. Because of this, people can use MG like an assault class, rushing in, deploying, and mowing everyone down, all in a few seconds, instead of a supporting role, which I think would be better. If they made deploying take, maybe 2 seconds instead of 1, and added atleast SOME recoil and shake when you fire it, that would help a lot. Kind of like in CoD, when you used a machine gun inplacement, it would shake violently, and the muzzle flash would block most of the screen. Something like that would make MG in DoD:S a bit less godly, and perhaps even more intense. I've also considered the possibility of getting rid of the MG's pistol, so the class is more fucused on actually using the MG.

Rocket - Status: Overpowered*
*I used an asterisk because I don't feel it's the bazooka or panzerfaust that is overpowered, but the sidearm. I mean, US gets a frickin M1 as a SIDEARM! And I've killed more people with that than I have with the Garand! Germany gets the Mauser C-96 (right?), but it's still pretty darn good. Not sure what I'd suggest, other than a different sidearm. Not sure what though.

Now it's your turn to suggest what changes can be made to improve DoD:S's balance and gameplay.

Let's not turn this into a flamewar please. If you disagree with someone elses suggestions, like my own, explain why.

 

[boglito]

My suggestion to improve rifleman without changing him too much:


Make another weapon choice that makes you fit a bayonette to the gun. This way secondary fire becomes jabbing with bayo instead of iron sights.

This is very realistic since most grunts in ww2 had bayonette, and none/very few had sidearm.

It also isn't too powerful since mounting the bayo takes away the iron sights.

Apart from that I wouldn't really say that rifleman is underpowered. Sure, he sucks in close combat, but he is good at medium range and up. I would say some of the other classes are too overpowered. In my experience, especially the machinegunner.

.bog.

[edit]to specify: when I say another weapon choice i mean as in the weapon coice riflegrenade. I dont mean actually choose one of two weapons before you spawn[/edit]

 

[jabberwock95]

I dont know why so few people like the Ironsights.

I absolutely love them, they add a much needed boost to accuracy and range for the rifleman. I use them a lot for long-range shots with the Kar, and the zoom comes in handy for picking people out from the surroundings.

If you want to get in someones face, pick a different class. As it is, riflemen rule for medium/long distance shooting.

Also, I wouldnt say the Assault class was overpowered. Maybe its just me, but I find the SMG's to be very innacurate over range, making them more suited to close encounters.

 

[jdufault]

Excellent opinions,

What I think about the game so far is:

Rifleman
====================

Problem: Too much recoil, even while in iron sights.

Solution: Lessen the recoil while using iron sights, make the sights usefull at least.

Problem: Grenades with the rifleman class turn the game into a nade fest at the front lines.

Solution: Make a seperate class with launchable nades. So that not everyone wanting to use a rifle is stuck with it.

Problem: No Pistol

Solution: Let the class have the pistol, and yet again, another class for launchable nades.

Assault
====================

Problem: Not enough recoil

Solution: Simply up the recoil on this characters guns, or take some away from the rifleman.

Problem: Two Grenades, and a Pistol

Solution: Knock off the explosive grenade, or the pistol, and you got yourself a balanced class

Sniper
====================

Problem: Scope returns after advancement of bolt.

Solution: A way to make your sniper rifle not return to scope after the advancement of bolt will allow you to make better pot shots. And is far more realistic.

Problem: Weak Shot.

Solution: Imrove the damge of the sniper rifle. I have put a round clean through someones chest at three foot range, only to do 90 damage. This has happened 6 or 7 times in the last 2 hours.



That is all I will comment on, they are the only classes I have had enough time to really study and play.

My opinons right now are based solely off of what the game is like right now. If they fix the lag issue, it might get easier to hit the kamikazee fast thompson gunners. It could also fix the lag between scope and reload on the sniper sometimes getting stuck.

more lata!

 

[Top Secret]

IMO, the sniper class is too sluggish feeling. As are all the ironsights in general. I love them, but they're just too sluggish feeling.

 

[AlecRazec]

The Rifleman is a bit clumsy. I've had problems with them myself. I can do close-mid range, just have to be a little bit more twitchy than the other classes. My problem with the Rifleman/Grenadier is the total lack of control over your grenades.

When you have a hand grenade, support/assault classes you have a hand grenade. This is a grenade that you can actually prime. I've really gotten good at pulling out the grenade, counting to five, and lobbing it inbetween a couple of Germans. It gives them no chance to throw it back, and even less chance to sprint away.

Riflemen don't get that option to prime the grenade. They trade the evasion affect for range(they can launch it much farther than I can throw, generally). If you're having problems with Assault classes close-range rushing you, make your quick-switch weapon your knife/fist. If you strafe just right, you'll knock 'em on their ass. Quick switch back to your Grenade, and good night Irene.

 

[Homer]

The german rifleman if played right will destroy every other class, except perhaps a well guarded MG.

The underpowered class is the american rifleman, because the garand is not a 1 hit kill weapon yet its recoil is so great that its semi-auto fire is useless.

 

[mbrithoms]

The german rifleman if played right will destroy every other class, except perhaps a well guarded MG.

The underpowered class is the american rifleman, because the garand is not a 1 hit kill weapon yet its recoil is so great that its semi-auto fire is useless.

I FULLY agree

the kar from the hip and crouched (most of the time from standing too) is unstoppable with mostly 1 shot kills, beautifull. While the potato gun of a garand is far too weak

 

[Pesmerga]

the kar needs much more kick-back.

The garand needs one hit kills for vital hitboxes.

 

[CookieCuttah]

I think they should instead decrease the garands recoil and make it like in COD1, I loved shooting it like a maniac.

 

[gh0st]

obviously none of you have shot one of these rifles in real life. the mauser is a beast.. i dont think any of you comprehend just how hard it kicks. i'd be surprised if you could accurately keep your eye through the scope and advance the bolt after a shot in anything other than a prone position.

 

[OCybrManO]

the kar needs much more kick-back.

The garand needs one hit kills for vital hitboxes.

More kick on the Kar98k wouldn't do much. You have plenty of time to recover from any kick before you can finish working the bolt. The loading of the next shot is what's holding you back. Whereas, the Garand is ready to fire again long before you recover from the recoil... making recoil the limiting factor. Slightly lowering the Garand's recoil might not be a bad idea, though.

Also, I've gotten several one hit kills with the Garand (probably headshots)... but the thing keeping it balanced is that it isn't designed to stop the enemy in a single shot. That's why you get more ammo and semi-auto rather than bolt action. You should expect to take two shots with it and consider yourself lucky if he goes down in one. If it had the stopping power of the Kar98k in addition to its speed it would be unstoppable.

 

[blinking halo]

imho the kar and garand have been nerfed too much, the garand more so than the kar. garand recoil is too high and the kar no longer has its 1 hit kill ensured.

 

[oD1Nz]

Quite frankly, I don't think VALVe needs to do anything. Every class has its weaknesses (like the riflemen vs. MP40/Thompson), but this can be rectified by approaching the situation from a different angle (depending on your class).

 

[213]

the thompson has above normal recoil to compensate for its power

 

[Defpotec22]

Bar needs to be a little bit more accurate, and i think all classes should get a pistol sidearm

 

[Top Secret]

Non-Ironsight Rifleman > Ironsight Rifleman.

I'm not saying I don't like Ironsights, I'm saying ironsights aren't providing an advantage at this time. It's too sluggish. I think that ironsights on the garand should heavily decrease recoil, and just generally not be so sluggish on the kar.

 

[sinkoman]

Everything's perfect the way it is.

The only time anything seems overpowered is when you're continously getting owned by it. Once you actually play the class, you'll see the position they're in and realize that everything's just perfect.

Riflemen are very good. I get nailed all the time CQB while trying to rush them as an Assault soldier, and the ironsights are a godsend. It makes those longrange shots easy(ier).

Assault is just fine too. You don't seem to play the class enough to realize that they aren't good for much more than CQB. Me and Asus were in a VERY heavy battle just tonight (It was donner, and nobody one once. It just kept going back and forth at the chokepoint till the timer ran out) and I was nailing the Assaults out soo bad as they tried to rush the US left field, I would say I easily got 10+ kills on them alone.

Support is perfect, just as you said. Bar is extremely accurate. Nobody seems to use the secondary fire AT ALL.

Rockets CAN be overpowered, but that's when they're up against a stupid team or a team that won't work together. In CQB, they can kill most anything with their MP, and the rocket makes mince meat of snipers and MGs, but you don't seem to realize just HOW handicapped they are when it comes to everything else. Anything medium range using the MP can be impossible (although i've managed it just fine) and if you try to use the Rocketlauncher for anything but longrange, well, that's probably going to be the last rocket you shoot till somebody rushes you. The splash damage is so minimal, it really evens it out. They are the MG and Sniper killers, and without them, maps would be dominated by CS kiddies.

Snipers MAYBE need to have their ammo toned down (as in less), but otherwise they're fine. A mandatory limit to maybe 2 snipers per team would be nice too, but this is server side atm.

MG's are just like the Rocket men. The only time they're overpowered is when you're up against a horrible team. If you have good teamwork, it's easy to get an assault to smoke the area, then have a few riflemen and assaults rush them, while a support comes from behind. Again, you don't seem to realize HOW handicapped they are. Unless they're in an MG bay, they're next to useless.

I think everything's perfect.

 

[Camon_Draconis]

Everything's perfect the way it is.
Riflemen are very good. I get nailed all the time CQB while trying to rush them as an Assault soldier, and the ironsights are a godsend. It makes those longrange shots easy(ier).

yes i agree rifleman class is awesome. and ironsights rule too but the time to pull the ironsights up is beyond slow.

also rifleman class either needs pistols back or a quick melee ability like stabbing or butting.

ALSO. the grenade launch thing. it takes too long to pull out compared to regular nades. yea i understand that there is a difference in range that you can launch each one, but the fact that you cant prim a rifle nade balances that out(auctually you can shoot at your feet and pick up and launch like the good ol 1.3 days, but that defeats the whole launching purpose

 

[Hyperion2010]

Give every weapon less acuracy when not ISed and give all weapons IS and remove crosshairs make the other secondary functions a differnt key other than mouse2

increase speed whlie in IS a tad but thats it

IS will balance everything by increasing accuracy and slow the game down a bit

 

[Warbie]

Smgs are still too inncacurate at anything other than close encounters. I'm not asking for a machine gun that can snipe, just something that can take down a dancing rifleman who isn't that far away.

At medium distances a half skilled rifleman will always take out someone armed with a thompson/mp40. And why is this? - because movement speed in DoD is quite quick (which I like ) This means that someone with a rifle can strafe about and quickly stop to take an accurate and very damaging shot. However, to even stand half a chance at this distance the smg user will have to stop, crouch, and burst fire while compensating for recoil. The result - a very easy kill for the rifleman.

At anything other than a coupe of metres - rifle > smg.

 

[Javert]

The Axis luger is a sissy pistol. They need to up the damage. I've put three slugs in someone up close (we were both hogging a flag) and he didn't go down, despite the apparent copious amounts of blood.

 

[operative x]

The colt accuracy is laughable, ive stood 10 feet away from a wall to test the weapons accuracy and after i slowly use up a clip of the colt, it looks like afriggin shotgun blast. Needs way better accuracy, garands rate of fire needs to be faster, maybe make it a tad slower than the carbine.

 

[Jimmeh]

I think it's pretty much balanced to be honest. After trying all the weapons for quite a bit, performance wise I was doing the same with each class (with the exception of the bazooka/panzershrek class). The k98 in particular I was do very well with, and even better with the garand. The thing you have to remember is that rifles aren't close quarters weapons anymore, and hitting someone in the leg with the k98k isn't going to kill them.

I just think people need to readjust to the various changes and work out how to use them effectively, forget how you played in 1.3 I say. It sounds obvious, but you can't charge in with a k98k anymore, you just get your arse kicked by SMG's, so keep your distance.

My two pents I guess.

 

[Yellonet]

My suggestion to improve rifleman without changing him too much:


Make another weapon choice that makes you fit a bayonette to the gun. This way secondary fire becomes jabbing with bayo instead of iron sights.

This is very realistic since most grunts in ww2 had bayonette, and none/very few had sidearm.

It also isn't too powerful since mounting the bayo takes away the iron sights.

Almost exactly what I want... but I don't see the need for having to choose different weapons - just have a button that mounts/dismounts the bayonette and while it is on you don't get iron sights but the "stab" instead.

 

[gurra]

SMG - Status: Well Overpowered
The SMGs are down right rediculace. They are super fast, while being quite easy to control and quite accurate. I was surprised how easy it was to kill people with the Tompson, even at long range. And in close quarters? Well, they just dominate. And on top of that, you get a smoke AND frag grenade? Please.

Ok, I haven't played dod:s but I find this comment pretty funny. A submachinegun IS easy to control, and because of the low recoil and compact size they are ideal for close quarter situations. The dominate in real life and should do so in a game too.

Regarding range, again I dont know how the maps are designed in dod:s, but an MP40 is effective up to 100 meters, the range of a Thompson is half of that.

 

[gurra]

obviously none of you have shot one of these rifles in real life. the mauser is a beast.. i dont think any of you comprehend just how hard it kicks. i'd be surprised if you could accurately keep your eye through the scope and advance the bolt after a shot in anything other than a prone position.

So true, I too know from experience that there's no way you can aim and quickly move the bolt at the same time.

 

[213]

i saw a professional soldier fire the kar98 before....he could pull the bolt really damn fast

i don't think he was aiming, but it was in rapid movement...like 4 rounds in a 3 seconds

 

[Hyperion2010]

weapon movement should reflect accuracy, i mean its really messed up if a gun is sitting perfectly still and level and is spraying all over the place where as if it was wobbly and poorly aimed...

 

[Asus]

Personally I like everything how it is except the american rifleman. Everything has it's place and limitations are set to keep things in check. MG is supposed to be a killer.

I like the grenades on the american rifleman class since they go a lot farther and you are not generally right up on the front lines with this class. Pop into windows and such a lot easier than the assault class which is hand thrown. Although I think the american rifleman class needs a little something extra since it doesn't always feel like you can take on whats coming alone. Perhaps making the rifle do a little more dmg or have a secondary pistol/knife or something. I'm OK with the recoil, I can handle that. But maybe that is a design decision to keep teamwork in play and leave the rushing for the assault class.

 

[CookieCuttah]

Actually as an American rifleman you do have a knife, that's also brass knuckles.

What is suprising is how fluid the animation for knife swings are, it really feels like your dude is kicking ass, not like in CS where its meh. Here it really looks HUMAN.

As for the whole balance class , it's great how it is, the problem I actually found is that most people don't play as a team, and don't compensate for my class weakness. Ive been up against the wall many times with a rifle, outshot by a sniper, and generally just owned in the wrong places. Why? Because my team was playing it like counter-strike. The few times we did win was simply because our leet people all went at once, and they were all pretty good shots. But most of the time we lost, and I always felt exposed, because I had no cover, id say half the time I just died because I was shot from a random place or by many people.

DOD''s problem is that people play it like CS, that sucks nuts.

 

[gh0st]

cookiecuttah's post is probably the most true thing ever said.

 

[Pesmerga]

If it had the stopping power of the Kar98k in addition to its speed it would be unstoppable.

Exactly.

Oh, was this thread's intention to make things fair? I thought it was a "what would make DoD:S more fun"