A few questions and thoughts

[kattmat]

There are a few things i've been thinking about since i played HL2.

How many people still live on earth, how many live in City 17? If we assume that the population was 6.5 billion before the events at black mesa, how many died during the following 20-30 years? 6 billion perhaps?

The rebellion, how is it organized? Is there any ruling body of generals, or is there no leaders at all, just a disorganized loosely assembeld horde of desperate citizens? The well-built bases and communications network suggests otherwise. But the hurdles of controlling a world-wide rebellion must be... gigantic. Perhaps there are several branches, independant of each other. This could mean that the uprising in City 17 was just a local disturbance, perhaps a major one but still a local conflict, easily contained and crushed in the open around city 17.

Why doesn't the rebellion use more vehicles? There must have been lots of them after the invasion, when the rebellion was first created (I believe), by nationalists and old soldiers. Perhaps all vehicles are being used in other places to fight the combine rule? If the rebels could capture and liberate more cities, Earth might have a chans to gain independence. But if they just have infantery and buggys the entire thing might be over and led to the end of mankind, as the combines punish all humans for the failed uprising.

Just a few questions..

 

[$kelet0r]

use your imagination


I'm not being smart - no one except valve can answer those questions, we can only speculate

 

[kattmat]

Well, but we can't do anything other than speculating and that is also what people do in this forum. Like that thread about graffiti, can we really know what it represents?
But it's not important, i guess i was just thinking aloud. Sorry, won't do it again

 

[$kelet0r]

Well, but we can't do anything other than speculating and that is also what people do in this forum. Like that thread about graffiti, can we really know what it represents?
But it's not important, i guess i was just thinking aloud. Sorry, won't do it again

lol
speculate away - don't let a grumpy me stop you

 

[Asknoone]

Outside City 17, there are only a few more Combine cities - and there probably isn't alot of people living in the wastes. So you've millions who died in the portal storms/7-hour war, 20 years of slavery and genocide and thousands who have been processed and turned into Stalkers so yeah, there's hardly any left. And those are left are the only ones remaining - because the Combine have installed a suppression field that doesn't allow us to breed.

There is no rebellion. There are a few resistance members - but nobody that actively fights back. You've got people living in the canals, people probably hidden in basements and those at Black Mesa East. The resistance is pretty rag tag - there's not much communication going on there since it's difficult to get into contact with people bar battered radios and a base that needs to be kept absolutely hidden due to it being situated within City 17 - Kleiners.

I doubt there is any communication with people in other cities as far as the resistance goes.

Vehicles are only useful in the wasteland, not in the City. And lets face it, there isn't much scope of a rebellion in the wastes.

 

[kattmat]

Outside City 17, there are only a few more Combine cities - and there probably isn't alot of people living in the wastes. So you've millions who died in the portal storms/7-hour war, 20 years of slavery and genocide and thousands who have been processed and turned into Stalkers so yeah, there's hardly any left. And those are left are the only ones remaining - because the Combine have installed a suppression field that doesn't allow us to breed.

There is no rebellion. There are a few resistance members - but nobody that actively fights back. You've got people living in the canals, people probably hidden in basements and those at Black Mesa East. The resistance is pretty rag tag - there's not much communication going on there since it's difficult to get into contact with people bar battered radios and a base that needs to be kept absolutely hidden due to it being situated within City 17 - Kleiners.

I doubt there is any communication with people in other cities as far as the resistance goes.

Vehicles are only useful in the wasteland, not in the City. And lets face it, there isn't much scope of a rebellion in the wastes.

Perhaps you're right about a larger rebellion, but i still think what we see in the game shows us that there is a medium-sized and active rebellion:

All those bases and camps along highway 17? Seems quite organized and well-defended. They must have been there for many years. Actually, why did the combines let them be there? I believe that humans "rule" the wastes outside the cities and that the overwatch military is to weak to beat them all. Yeah, i actually believe that the combine hold on earth is quite weak outside the cities. They were just attacking those bases to capture freeman, but it seems like there was some fighting there before we arrived. It seems like the overwatch tried to drive out the rebels with force (attack on ravenholm base) but was only partially successfull. Great job, mighty inter-dimensional super army! Even with those gunships you were defeated.

So, there were just a few resistance members? Where did that HUGE army armed with guns and rocket launchers come from? They must have been preparing for years, just like the resistance in Europe did during WW2.

I'm not convinced yet. Sure, no world wide uprising, but in my opinion a very well armed and planned rebellion in city 17 that managed to take down a citadel in a week.

 

[CrazyJeepDriver]

So, there were just a few resistance members? Where did that HUGE army armed with guns and rocket launchers come from? They must have been preparing for years, just like the resistance in Europe did during WW2.

Theres no citizens in blue uniforms anywhere in City 17, except for the dead bodies. My Guess is that the resistance recruited everyone, thats why there is so many rebels everywhere.

 

[Asknoone]

Humans don't control the wastes. Highway 17 isn't even that far out, and the main reason the Combine have a good grip on it is because it's the road to Nova Prospekt. The wasteland is empty bar countless xen creatures. It is pretty much impossible to live in the wasteland - what with Bullsquids, Gargs and tentacles - shot through the portal storms that continue day by day.

The Combine has complete control of the cities, and don't worry about the wasteland. They keep out of it - because they can't go there. If there was a problem with human activity they'd send some heavies through the portal and they'd deal with the situation. 20 years on from their occupation of Earth - there has been no problem. As you can see when you arrive at Shorepoint, things are pretty grim - they are being pinned down by the Combine...resistance bases outside of the city won't last...because there's hardly any.

The Overwatch aren't the meat of the Combine. They are processed humans. The Combine don't have much of a problem on Earth, and that's why there is so few Combine aliens on it (well, there are no Combine at all actually).

The resistance never planned to rise up against their oppressors. They kept trying to furry people into Black Mesa East, but besides from that they had hardly any weapons or equipment. It was never organized. Anyway - the Combine always knew what the science team were up to. They weren't preparing to fight - they were doing something far worse - building local teleporters. Mossman was sending Breen information all the time.

That wasn't an army when the street war began - that was the citizens of City 17. When Gordon destroyed Nova Prospekt and got trapped in a slow teleport for a week he triggered an uprising. When Prospekt was taken out the civilians decided it was time to do something, and over a week, gradually, they took arms against their oppressors - stealing Combine weapons. They weren't waiting underground, there was no army. It was merely a citizen rebellion.

They took the Combine by surprise and began to push the Overwatch back. It was never expected, and they were only up against modified humans anyway. They pushed them to the base of the Citadel, but didn't take it down. The Combine were already preparing for a second wave attack to regain the city when you were captured by Breen, and it wouldn't be long before they sent in reinforcements from another City.

 

[kattmat]

Thanks for your long reply, samon. There are still a few things i don't understand:

"Highway 17 isn't even that far out, and the main reason the Combine have a good grip on it is because it's the road to Nova Prospekt"
So the combines had a good grip on the highway? It looked like the rebells had atleast a dozen bases there. If this was so important, why weren't they killed earlier? If such a dangerous place was filled with camps, how does the rest of the planet look? Sure, a wasteland filled with aliens, but still a good place for armed and desperate citizens. No overwatch or combine rule, just endless wastes filled with headcrabs. Perhaps they taste good? Mmm, toasted alien!

And about the overwatch counterattack: why didn't it come earlier, why wait until one of the main overwatch/combine holds on earth was under siege by this non-existant rebellion? Sure it was unexpected, but still, one week! They could have moved in legions of striders and gunships to crush the uprising. Breen was so desperate that he contacted the Advisor, why didn't he move in all troops on earth to city 17? This gives several possibilities:

1. There are no other cities on earth.
2. The overwatch is hard pressed by other uprisings/there are no troops to spare anyway.
3. Breen thought the situation was under controll (Oh shit! An uprising! Who could have expected that! Well, atleast not me. It's not like i have inside information about the uprising)

Now i'm tired, so i really don't know how that looks. Goodnight or something

 

[Asknoone]

Thanks for your long reply, samon. There are still a few things i don't understand:

"Highway 17 isn't even that far out, and the main reason the Combine have a good grip on it is because it's the road to Nova Prospekt"
So the combines had a good grip on the highway? It looked like the rebells had atleast a dozen bases there. If this was so important, why weren't they killed earlier? If such a dangerous place was filled with camps, how does the rest of the planet look? Sure, a wasteland filled with aliens, but still a good place for armed and desperate citizens. No overwatch or combine rule, just endless wastes filled with headcrabs. Perhaps they taste good? Mmm, toasted alien!

Well, I'd be willing to bet there are at least some wasteland refugees out there, surviving off roast Bullsquid and headcrab.
The Highway is pretty split. You've got the Combine keeping an eye on Odessa and them attacking Shorepoint. I'm sure these bases only recently came to their attention. But from that point on you've got the Combine controlled dock yard, the coastal home, the road that's blocked by an energy barrier and the large bridge that's Combine controlled as it's a train track. Not to mention their burning of resistance corpses at the multi-storied house after the zombie infested underground.
Then all you have left is the Lighthouse, and the Vort camp. The lighthouse is pretty exposed and it's little wonder why it's constantly under attack - the Vort camp is well out of the way. But I doubt these bases will last long, and ultimately they aren't much a thorn in the Combines side - it's not like they'll ever assault Nova Prospekt.

And about the overwatch counterattack: why didn't it come earlier, why wait until one of the main overwatch/combine holds on earth was under siege by this non-existant rebellion? Sure it was unexpected, but still, one week! They could have moved in legions of striders and gunships to crush the uprising. Breen was so desperate that he contacted the Advisor, why didn't he move in all troops on earth to city 17? This gives several possibilities:

1. There are no other cities on earth.
2. The overwatch is hard pressed by other uprisings/there are no troops to spare anyway.
3. Breen thought the situation was under controll (Oh shit! An uprising! Who could have expected that! Well, atleast not me. It's not like i have inside information about the uprising)

Now i'm tired, so i really don't know how that looks. Goodnight or something

Well, we've already got a chart in the trainstation with several other cities on (City 8, for instance) and a citizen mentions at the beginning that he's tired of Breencasts, considering he had the same in City 14. So that rules that out.

This is the first time there has been a rebellion on Earth. This is evident due to the role you play in HL2, and that it's pretty suprising for the Combine. Like I said, it's due to Gordons presence it occurs.

Well, you have to imagine that for the first 3/4 days it was merely rioting. Citizens assaulting metrocops, rock throwing, molotov throwing, all round abuse - nothing that really poses that much of a threat. I think Breen thought it'd just wear off - besides, what did it matter? He had Eli Vance, head of the science team in custody within the Citadel (Breens old friend for that matter) and he could use him, and his local teleport technology as a bargaining chip to the Combine.

Then for the final few days it grew out of hand, and people started to push back. I think Breen was too busy trying to persuade Eli into giving him the technology and stop the uprising. But you have to remember - the Combine don't want to wipe us out. They want to absorb us into their ranks. Killing off a huge amount of the remaining humans isn't a particularly great idea considering this is the last batch anyway.

Come Gordons return, I think they decided enough was enough.

 

[0mar]

IMO, the Combine/Overwatch didn't care much about the wastelands, which is why you have rebel outposts out there. The alien hazards will get them eventually, plus what kind of damage could they do out there? They can't breed, they have no access to heavy weaponry and the Combine can assault their location in a matter of minutes.

This all changed when Freeman came. He's Anti-Citizen 1 and the Combine/Overwatch definately want a piece of him.

 

[bigburpco]

Yeah, the wasteland is worthless to occupy. It would be a very unsuitable place to contain citizens (as in the Cities), and is much, much harder to manage.