A Speculative Analysis of the Enrichment Center and GLaDOS.

[WriterforHire]

Perhaps, but I was fairly certain there was a line from GLaDOS which states that that's what the facility is for. Although I'm equally certain that I'm distorting the line: "Though fun and learning are..."

Yes, GLaDOS does mention that fun and learning are the chief purposes of the Enrichment center (or something along those lines) but it seems pretty clear to me that such is not the case. After all, the subjects aren't having any fun at all. Though the statement might be true if the scientists are having fun watching the subjects take the tests. (See, even more hidden sadism! I knew I would fine some if I dig in it deep enough. I tend to stay away from the lines that GLaDOS gives for they can be interpreted many different ways. The sheer impossibility / danger of the chambers, GLaDOS' attempts to kill you, and the phone are evidence I hold to more strongly, after all such physical evidence can only be taken in so many different lights.

Oh yes, no other species at the time of the Enrichment Center could have done the test. We still don't know when precisely the events occur though and if there's any truth to the android comments by GLaDOS. The reason I mention when is the thought in the back of my mind of catching one of the organisms released after the Resonance Cascade, despite how unlikely that is.

Ugh. The andriods.

If such andriods exist, if they were subjagated to the tests, if they were humanoid in shape and if Aperture would actually be willing to spend even more money on the developement of hundreds of robots simply for experimental purposes, then maybe the Center could have been designed with andriods in mind. But, as you might be able to tell, I don't think that's very likely.

And just what do you mean by catching one of the organisms released after the Resonance Cascade? You wouldn't be talking about Vortigaunts, by chance, would you? They're the only ones who are humanoid in shape and have the sort of inteligence neccesary to even potentially make it to the end. But the problem with this that there is literally no evidence at all, not even a shady, vague comment from GLaDOS this time around.

Although another possibility is one I've noted before, technical constraints of the aging facility making it impossible to change it to a significant degree. The back-areas we go into don't exactly look that nice, after all. What incentive would an AI, GLaDOS, have to live in the first place? We've both been discussing programming limitations, wishes for self-termination, and wishes to survive, but neither of us have asked that simple question.

Good question! And a interesting one too.

Why does anyone wish to live? Especially in environments that are hazardous to them? Because they fear dieing. Granted, this might not work in GLaDOS' case if she knew that she had a backup, but if she doesn't, then it fits perfectly. And even if she did know that a backup did exist, but was unsure if it currently did or in what state it was in, then the fear of being destroyed would still be present. There's also the possiblity, however slim in my opinion, that there is no backup. Which would definitely mean that GLaDOS would want to stay alive.

GLaDOS is stuck there, alone, is the closest mechanical construct built by humans to being alive, and has a load of cores determining its behavior. I'd rather terminate myself than remain in a gradual slope of disrepair.

She also has vast resources at her disposal, a apparently long-lasting line of subjects, and no pesky humans around to tell her what to do. See? It can be taken both ways. And, even if GLaDOS took the negative view that you did, the fear of dieing and the unknown would be enough to keep her from wanting to kill herself. After all, that's the case with a lot of wouldbe suicidal people. Unless you know for 100% certainity what's going to happen to you after you die, death will always hold a tiny bit of sway over the human psyche.

Good point. The only question then is why they didn't hook up maintenance of the back areas to GLaDOS. It would save them the money they had to pay on hired personnel, by a fortune, looking at the size of the Enrichment Center.

Personally, I think we're diving into topics that have very little founding from evidence in the game now. I really think the reason why the backareas look like they do is because the Valve team wanted to make it clear that you were no longer in the actual Chambers and that the area you were wandering through hasn't had human attention in quite a long time. But, for the sake of the argument, let's look at it this way. What would happen if they gave the back areas up to GLaDOS for maintanence? Well. One, they would not need to have any maintanence men at all. Period. And that would surely raise quite a stir if someone managed to find out that Apeture didn't even have a maintanence crew. The question of, "How do they keep the facility running" would be raised and the answer would lead directly to GLaDOS.

Granted, I'm assuming two things here: First, that the overall public knows about certain parts of the facility (the above ground parts) but are clueless to others, (the underground parts). Secondly, I'm assuming that the public doesn't know about GLaDOS. Both of which are very shaky, so please don't hold me to this.

You're right, there isn't one that says it isn't valid. I simply thought they had an idea related to it, had it put in the game, and then decided to scrap it. I'll have to check it out, but I see what you mean about the phone, commentary node regardless.

But here's the thing. This argument only works if the phone hadn't been placed in the game, but I managed to find out about it anyway through a commentary node or the internet or something. Take the Cremator, for instance. We know that this is a idea that the Valve team was thinking of but that they decided not to go through and make him a enemy, however, a Cremator's head was still found in game which cemented the fact that such creature's do exist in the Half Life world. Whether or not they'll be the same as the original concept art is another matter entirely. In the same way, while the team did not go into depth to explain away what the phone meant, since its there it means that it's cannon and in some way relates to the back story of Portal.

Definitely unstable considering GLaDOS has been running ever since activation as far as we know. The thing that has me interested now, since you continue mentioning it, is who would conduct the foul play.

No fricken idea.

Literally, the game gives us nothing about that, nothing at all. They pratically scream at us that something went horribly wrong here, but left the when, why and how all up for debate. I have a couple ideas in mind that I think would serve for a interesting fanfic story, but wouldn't serve for anything better than that - fanfiction.

GLaDOS has definitely been running since activation, which also brings up a interesting point. It seems that GLaDOS is entirely self-sufficent. She doesn't need scientists to be continually tinkering of computers to keep her online. Also, more than that, she has a wide range of capablities. At the least (backed up with the most evidence) she has surveilance cameras everwhere and can speak at almost any point in the facility, at most (backed up with the least amount of evidence) she can deploy turrets at any point in the back areas, can clean up / maintain the Chambers and can somehow clear the facility of dead bodies. For a while, simply looking at that and the way that GLaDOS said "I flooded the Enrichment Center" (italtics by me) I thought that maybe GLaDOS stagged the coup de tat all by herself, viewing the scientists as unneeded and impedding towards the progress of science. But then there's the fact she staged it, on what seems to be, the first day she was activated. Surely GLaDOS would need some time before she came to such a conclusion.

(Huh. After promising I wouldn't get into shady speculation I went ahead and went into shady speculation.)

True, whenever you put it like that, he's the only other existing presence we're aware of that is likely to have done it.

But I'm not as sure anymore. The thing is, the one thing we know for sure about the Ratman was that he was a test subject. How would a test subject get their hands on any neccesary blasting materials? So, if the pipes were blown open, then someone other than the Ratman must have done it. However, if its due to natural causes, then not much explanation is needed.

I'm not an advocate for self-delusion, so I try to maintain an open mind and level head in arguments, accepting that the arguments the other is making are just as sound and that mine do have flaws. At the very least, it helps keep the discussion going without going in complete circles.

I think these are qualities that all debaters want in some way. However, even if people recognize that they can't be bias, need a open mind and a level head, that doesn't mean that they actually do those things. To be honest, there is no such thing as unbiased. In some way, a bit of yourself is going to come out on the page, even if its only in something as small as word choice.

Which is completely possible. However, consider the song Still Alive, if we count that as canon, as I do, that couldn't possibly be part of its programmed protocol if the intent was to survive and terminate Chell at all costs.

I too think the song Still Alive is canon, and I also think its the cincher against the arguement that the backup of GLaDOS is in the Borealis. I think, from the song, it's rather clear that the backup is actually in another part of the same facility. GLaDOS is using the same subjects, performing the same tests, and is fine and dandy while Chell is out struggling in the real world. I don't see how the song Still Alive goes against GLaDOS programmed protocal at all. Chell was a threat, she took care of it, and Chell is now gone. GLaDOS is now continuing on as normal and is gloating in a song / goodbye message, that she's is, in fact, Still Alive. (I've always wondered how Chell would react if she actually ever heard the song, Still Alive. Would she go out to hunt down GLaDOS again? To make sure she stays dead this time?)

Or it might be part of that foul play idea you've been wafting about. GLaDOS may never have been hooked up to those systems initially, and prior to activation, was hooked up. Without any core to determine or limit its behavior with those systems, it was just a matter of the "Foul Player" hoping for the intended results via Neurotoxin Release.

Perhaps. As I said, I really don't want to get into that. Even though its my own personal theory, I realize it has some shaky foundation. It could be that the "Foul Player", if such a person (or persons) exist, designed it so that GLaDOS could kill off any/all people in her chamber. Or, the scientists could have stupidly given the weapons to her as a safety precaution. Either works.

That they are indeed. However, wouldn't GLaDOS have known from our prior experience with the rocket sentry that, through the usage of the portals, we could redirect the rockets? Obviously GLaDOS activated the first one we encountered, meaning it had its eyes there so it could have easily seen our actions.

Now let's not assume that since the rocket sentry had eyes that meant that GLaDOS could see through them. I would have even gone as far as saying that we couldn't know for certain if the cameras allowed GLaDOS to see what was happening if it weren't for the words, "She's Watching You" in the Ratdens. But even if that was the case and GLaDOS did know that Chell could redirect the rockets, there's always protocal to consider. After all, why would the scientists have installed a rocket sentry if not to have GLaDOS use it against anyone that was attempting to harm her? (Which, by the way, is even more evidence pointing to foul play. Because why would the scientists even bother installing defences around GLaDOS if they didn't expect something shady to happen? It's pretty effective to. Lock the bad guys in GLaDOS' chamber, start the Neurotoxin, and let the rocket sentry have at them. And yes, this assumes that the Neurotoxin is only for GLaDOS' own chamber.)

It would be a complete waste. Why it didn't make it any easier though is up to any number of possible factors. Why didn't it just reattach the Morality Core? Obviously it wanted you to get rid of it. Why would it want to get rid of it? It also obviously contained some sort of programming limitation, barring GLaDOS access to something. It may be that GLaDOS couldn't raise the rocket sentry with the Morality Core still intact. The Neurotoxin Release shortly afterward may not have been intentional, at least, not intentional on the part of the GLaDOS personality we were familiar with. As you have to admit, its personality takes quite a bit of a change once we get rid of the Morality Core. It's still sarcastic, still morbid, but more bluntly so. In fact, if the GLaDOS we witness during the fight is precisely like the one activated, it supports GLaDOS's statements about the Neurotoxin Release. As some have thought it bluffing, this would disprove it.

For your first question, I want to point out that reattaching the Morality Core is strictly impossible without some other outside help. How is GLaDOS suppose to reattach it, by sending down a crane and lifting it back up? Also, I wouldn't be so hasty in saying that GLaDOS "obviously wanted you to get rid of it". Either she was doing reverse psychology or else she was really, really, afraid and lost some of her wits in the desperation. But even if she wanted Chell to destroy the Morality Core, that in no way indicates that she herself wanted to be terminated, after all, it seems as if the Morality Core's chief purpose was to stop GLaDOS from releasing the Neurotoxin, which is her best shot at killing Chell. After all, doesn't she say "If I were you, I would let the turret hit me" which pratically admits that the only way the rocket sentry would hit her was if she stood still? And I agree, GLaDOS' personality does undergo a change, or, more correctly, the final change after the destruction of the Morality Core. From what I can tell, GLaDOS' personality changes twice. Once when you escape (the end of all scripted narration and the beginning of GLaDOS' own dialogue) and once again after the destruction of the Morality Core. As for this disproving that GLaDOS was bluffing...that's certainly not the case. You can be bluntly sarcastic and morbid and still lie through your teeth. Until we witness the scene firsthand or is told by a reliable source no amount of evidence in Portal will ever "prove" or "disprove" what happened to the Enrichment Center.

( I actually had to split this up into two because it was too long! That's rather impressive, isn't it?)

 

[WriterforHire]

(Here's the second half!)

Which raises an interesting point, is GLaDOS's first reaction to humans without the Morality Core always to terminate them? What kind of person programs that? Also, more support for the Neurotoxin Release is the possibility of the personnel being gathered in GLaDOS's chamber for its Red Letter Day, if you will. This seems far more likely than the entire facility being gassed, and, I'll be blunt, a little less insane on the part of the Aperture personnel. Sorry about this little tangent, in short, I'd apply it to the destruction of the Morality Core. At the very least in that chamber.

Actually, the Neurotoixn Release doesn't make any sense at all, really. There hasn't been enough time since its activation for the scientists to want to deactivate her and not enough time for her to come to the realization that humans are more trouble then they are worth. Really, the only way it makes sense is if someone programmed GLaDOS to do it immediately upon activation. Someone wanted GLaDOS to start a killing spree. This is even more prominent if there were many people in GLaDOS' chamber on her "Red Letter Day" (as you called it) which is very possible considering how large it was. All it would take is for her to lock the doors, bring out the turret and start the gas and we have a massacre on our hands. And the best part about it is that we know that GLaDOS can cause a lockdown. The Aperture Science website was quite useful in that regard.

GLaDOS is a bit bound by the Enrichment Center and the cores, but if it's true, that it has an infinite capacity for knowledge, it's entirely possible for it to rewrite parts of its programming that aren't based solely on hardware. It's possible it doesn't have free will, that it was just trying to protect itself, that everything went according to what the scientists had planned with the exception of the escape. Why, though, and how, would they benefit from putting the subjects through these extreme conditions? A study? Even studies have limitations to the extent of their methods.

I don't know about that. As I said before, the capacity for knowledge does not mean having infinite knowledge, but its possible that GLaDOS could rewrite / overwrite parts of its programming. As for how the scientists would benefit from putting the subjects through these extreme conditions, that's easy. I view the work of the Enrichment Center similar to that of the Nazi experiments. When studies / experiments are throughly funded by the government and / or is hidden from the more queezy public eyes, then the most horrific things can be done in the name of science. So yes. I think its entirely possible that these tests were done and these people were placed through such extreme conditions solely for the purpose of experimentation and study. This wasn't a obstacle course. Most obstacle courses don't have such a high percentage of fatality. These scientists did not expect nor want their subjects to come out alive, of that I feel sure of.

It's never said in-game, it's said in our farewell song, Still Alive. "Go ahead and leave me. I think I prefer to stay inside. Maybe you'll find someone else to help you." If you listen to the song, it sounds a bit sad there, as though it doesn't want you to leave. Of course, then it does a quick 180 and doesn't sound as though it cares at all. So it's a bit difficult to tell.

The handiwork of that article again, I see. Well. There's a certain truth here. I think GLaDOS has decieved herself into believing that she and Chell had formed a unique sort of bond, mostly, I believe, due to Chell's amazing results in the tests. When she spoke up, she seemed honestly hurt that Chell was attempting to kill her and at one point fondly reminensed, stating, "Remember the Good Times though?" and then talks about the murder attempt of course, ending with a "that was great." In a way, I think she believes that she both has a connect with Chell yet still had to kill her anyway, like how one would have to put down a dog once it becomes rabid.

Technically..We did see two guns, the first one that shot blue portals, which we obtained, and then the second that shot orange portals. I've never been able to decide if that really is a second one, or how that works out, but..It's there..

I've always seen that as a game device, as a way for the developers to slowly introduce the players to the concept of steping through portals and shooting portals. However, what must be made clear is that these are not two seperate ASHPDs but rather one ASHPD that was split in two. The tests were directly designed so that for the first half of it, you would only need to have to shoot one portal, sort of like tricycle wheels, but then steps back and lets you handle it on your own. There's one thing that has always bugged me about this though. How do the Portal gun become "modified"? Does it happen automatically when the two halves touch or does GLaDOS do something to it? Can the gun split back into two? (That would be a cool gameplay feature for future Portal games. One player (NPC or otherwise) shoots Orange Portals while you shoot Blue and you have to coridinate through a puzzle that way) Anyway, if any of the stuff that came before wasn't speculation, this definitely is, and we'll find out about the specifics of the Portal Gun eventually.

Yeah, that's the main thing that catches me, the existence of it on the Borealis. A backup just seemed flimsy to me considering that after the money they poured into the first, how could they afford to make a second? Although after your earlier point, it does seem a bit more plausible.

That is a good point, especially considering that they didn't have government funding. But, nevertheless, a backup does exist...somewhere.

Even if there was hardware to prevent hacking into GLaDOS, the Combine are extradimensional aliens with technology beyond anything humanity had ever seen during GLaDOS's day. I think they'd break through any existing hardware as easily as a beta particle passing through paper. You're right, there really isn't any indication of either of them being aware of each other. The only indicator to a possible conflict is the relation of the Borealis to Aperture Laboratories, but that's only if there's another GLaDOS on board.

Now I wouldn't be so hasty in stating that, "Oh, It's the Combine, of course they can hack into any measly human computer." For one, we've never seen (at least to my knowledge) the Combine hack into anything, and its quite possible that prior to their invasion of Earth they didn't even know that such things as computers existed. And even if this wasn't the case, GLaDOS is no oridinary computer. Either way, we both agree the point is moot since their is no evidence to suggest that the Combine even knows that GLaDOS exists.

 

[Gmr Leon]

Yes, GLaDOS does mention that fun and learning are the chief purposes of the Enrichment center (or something along those lines) but it seems pretty clear to me that such is not the case. After all, the subjects aren't having any fun at all. Though the statement might be true if the scientists are having fun watching the subjects take the tests.

Possible, certainly, assuming of course that the test chambers have remained the same over the years. Which there is every indication that they have; however, as the designs are completely unethical, especially for human test subjects, it raises many questions to the legality of what proceeded there. Then again, if the subjects were mentally unstable, for whatever reason, they could see it as fun, but there's no indication that those tested started out insane.

If such andriods exist, if they were subjagated to the tests, if they were humanoid in shape and if Aperture would actually be willing to spend even more money on the developement of hundreds of robots simply for experimental purposes, then maybe the Center could have been designed with andriods in mind. But, as you might be able to tell, I don't think that's very likely.

Well, let's keep in mind that they did have an entire line of sentries in mass production. It does sound unlikely, especially given all the assumptions one would need to make for it to be viable, but the idea shouldn't be completely discarded.

And just what do you mean by catching one of the organisms released after the Resonance Cascade? You wouldn't be talking about Vortigaunts, by chance, would you? They're the only ones who are humanoid in shape and have the sort of inteligence neccesary to even potentially make it to the end. But the problem with this that there is literally no evidence at all, not even a shady, vague comment from GLaDOS this time around.

Yes, that's the incredibly unlikely idea I had in mind, and that's why I didn't bother to flesh it out.

Because they fear dieing. Granted, this might not work in GLaDOS' case if she knew that she had a backup, but if she doesn't, then it fits perfectly. And even if she did know that a backup did exist, but was unsure if it currently did or in what state it was in, then the fear of being destroyed would still be present. There's also the possiblity, however slim in my opinion, that there is no backup. Which would definitely mean that GLaDOS would want to stay alive.

Fear would work..But has GLaDOS ever shown any fear whatsoever? At the moment I can't recall any exact moments that I would attribute fear to. Unless the destruction of the morality core counts, but that doesn't strike me as fear. This is actually a very interesting point, GLaDOS claims to know what will happen after you die, and regardless of its situation, doesn't show any fear. Perhaps an indicator of knowledge regarding the existence of its own backup? Considering those points..It contributes to bits of my ideas in relation to termination and acting.

See? It can be taken both ways. And, even if GLaDOS took the negative view that you did, the fear of dieing and the unknown would be enough to keep her from wanting to kill herself. Unless you know for 100% certainity what's going to happen to you after you die, death will always hold a tiny bit of sway over the human psyche.

A good point, but GLaDOS claims to know what occurs after death. At least, your death. Besides, GLaDOS doesn't exactly have a human psyche.

Personally, I think we're diving into topics that have very little founding from evidence in the game now. I really think the reason why the backareas look like they do is because the Valve team wanted to make it clear that you were no longer in the actual Chambers and that the area you were wandering through hasn't had human attention in quite a long time.

You're right, and I agree, we are. That aside, I'm quite certain I recall hearing one of the Valve team saying just what you said, and it's a very good design decision.

But here's the thing. This argument only works if the phone hadn't been placed in the game, but I managed to find out about it anyway through a commentary node or the internet or something. Take the Cremator, for instance. We know that this is a idea that the Valve team was thinking of but that they decided not to go through and make him a enemy, however, a Cremator's head was still found in game which cemented the fact that such creature's do exist in the Half Life world. Whether or not they'll be the same as the original concept art is another matter entirely. In the same way, while the team did not go into depth to explain away what the phone meant, since its there it means that it's canon and in some way relates to the back story of Portal.

I see your point more clearly now. I never claimed it was a sound argument on my part, and you never said that I was attempting to make it appear sound. Actually, looking over it, it's definitely much clearer. That was most certainly a flawed argument on my part. As a matter of fact, you have my thanks for making my mistaken logic clear to me. I try to respond to these more intricate discussions when I feel my mind is in a proper state, but sometimes it is not the case.

No fricken idea.

It's a good thing I wasn't hoping for an answer then, eh? The only suspect I can think of is the Rat Man, but even that fellow ends up trapped within the Enrichment Center. And the only reason I suspect the Rat Man is that I imagine he or she would have been amongst the higher-ups, or at least part of the personnel with access to the computers as they were aware of the login information.

GLaDOS has definitely been running since activation, which also brings up an interesting point. It seems that GLaDOS is entirely self-sufficient. She doesn't need scientists to be continually tinkering of computers to keep her online. Also, more than that, she has a wide range of capabilities.

One you happened to miss is the peculiar "telepathic tendril" we see during the end fight.

Surely GLaDOS would need some time before she came to such a conclusion.

Assuming of course that they didn't run tests before the initial activation that could have provided brief glimpses of humanity. That would count under shady speculation though, as would my idea of GLaDOS processing information at a much higher rate than the human mind.

But I'm not as sure anymore. The thing is, the one thing we know for sure about the Ratman was that he was a test subject. How would a test subject get their hands on any necessary blasting materials? So, if the pipes were blown open, then someone other than the Ratman must have done it. However, if its due to natural causes, then not much explanation is needed.

How are we sure that he was a test subject? The majority of the evidence provided does lend itself to that, but there's the issue of the login information. I mean, he or she may have had years to figure that out, but how would he or she if he or she was just a test subject? If he or she was anything like us, the player, he or she would be completely ignorant of the three-tier plan. You are correct though, in regards to the blasting materials. Of course, if the Ratman were to open a portal around one of the rocket sentries and at the top of that wall..But there's nothing to indicate that.

To be honest, there is no such thing as unbiased. In some way, a bit of yourself is going to come out on the page, even if its only in something as small as word choice.

Too true! As can be seen in my usage of obviously later in my previous post.

I too think the song Still Alive is canon, and I also think its the cincher against the argument that the backup of GLaDOS is in the Borealis. I think, from the song, it's rather clear that the backup is actually in another part of the same facility. GLaDOS is using the same subjects, performing the same tests, and is fine and dandy while Chell is out struggling in the real world. I don't see how the song Still Alive goes against GLaDOS programmed protocol at all. Chell was a threat, she took care of it, and Chell is now gone. GLaDOS is now continuing on as normal and is gloating in a song / goodbye message, that she's is, in fact, Still Alive.

I agree with the first part, as I've said, even I found the Borealis idea a tad on the shaky side, along with the backup, but the latter idea makes more sense now. I suppose I see how it doesn't go against GLaDOS's protocol, but the idea I was getting from your view of the protocol barred the subject from ever getting that close to GLaDOS.

Perhaps. As I said, I really don't want to get into that. Even though its my own personal theory, I realize it has some shaky foundation. It could be that the "Foul Player", if such a person (or persons) exist, designed it so that GLaDOS could kill off any/all people in her chamber. Or, the scientists could have stupidly given the weapons to her as a safety precaution. Either works.

Indeed, it's open to many possibilities.

Now let's not assume that since the rocket sentry had eyes that meant that GLaDOS could see through them.

That's a good point, and could also be attributed to the normal sentries as well.

But even if that was the case and GLaDOS did know that Chell could redirect the rockets, there's always protocol to consider. After all, why would the scientists have installed a rocket sentry if not to have GLaDOS use it against anyone that was attempting to harm her?

That does make sense, to an extent. How was Chell a threat though? All Chell had was the ASHPD, and the incinerator. If the Morality Core hadn't just conveniently fallen at the time of our arrival, we wouldn't have been able to do any damage whatsoever. At least, not very quickly.

For your first question, I want to point out that reattaching the Morality Core is strictly impossible without some other outside help. How is GLaDOS suppose to reattach it, by sending down a crane and lifting it back up?

I must not have mentioned it in the post you responded to, but I do know I've mentioned it in this one. The peculiar "telepathic tendril" is a possibility. If you're not certain what I'm referring to, it's the thing that appears to place the cores in the inconvenient locations. Perhaps even holding them in place, in the case of one of them.

But even if she wanted Chell to destroy the Morality Core, that in no way indicates that she herself wanted to be terminated, after all, it seems as if the Morality Core's chief purpose was to stop GLaDOS from releasing the Neurotoxin, which is her best shot at killing Chell.

That is a good point, but it also gives Chell one more incentive, as if she needed more, to terminate GLaDOS. Perhaps a bit of, hurry and get it over with, on GLaDOS's part or as you point out, get yourself over with, there's nothing more you can do.

After all, doesn't she say "If I were you, I would let the turret hit me" which practically admits that the only way the rocket sentry would hit her was if she stood still?

True, it says something along those lines.

And I agree, GLaDOS' personality does undergo a change, or, more correctly, the final change after the destruction of the Morality Core. From what I can tell, GLaDOS' personality changes twice.

It's rather funny, as I was typing that part of my post you quoted, I was thinking you would be able to identify more than one change.

As for this disproving that GLaDOS was bluffing...that's certainly not the case. You can be bluntly sarcastic and morbid and still lie through your teeth. Until we witness the scene firsthand or is told by a reliable source no amount of evidence in Portal will ever "prove" or "disprove" what happened to the Enrichment Center.

That's quite right. However, as I was saying, if it was exactly the same..Well, it makes it a bit more probable that it did what it claims. Doesn't confirm it though, you're right.

(I actually had to split this up into two because it was too long! That's rather impressive, isn't it?)

That it is..I get the feeling I'm going to have to split this post. If this turns into a triple-post response..Well, I'll be even more impressed. Edit: Jolly good! I didn't need to split it, it's always a tad difficult to decide where the proper place is to divide it.

 

[Gmr Leon]

(Here's the second half!)

And here's mine!

Actually, the Neurotoxin Release doesn't make any sense at all, really. There hasn't been enough time since its activation for the scientists to want to deactivate her and not enough time for her to come to the realization that humans are more trouble than they are worth. Really, the only way it makes sense is if someone programmed GLaDOS to do it immediately upon activation. Someone wanted GLaDOS to start a killing spree. This is even more prominent if there were many people in GLaDOS' chamber on her "Red Letter Day" (as you called it) which is very possible considering how large it was. All it would take is for her to lock the doors, bring out the turret and start the gas and we have a massacre on our hands. And the best part about it is that we know that GLaDOS can cause a lockdown. The Aperture Science website was quite useful in that regard.

It really, truly, doesn't make sense. However, at least we came to a similar conclusion in regards to the possibilities, that is, the programming part. That still doesn't exactly sit well with me, but considering the possibility of foul play posed by yourself, it's a bit more viable.

I don't know about that. As I said before, the capacity for knowledge does not mean having infinite knowledge, but its possible that GLaDOS could rewrite / overwrite parts of its programming.

Well, you're right, and in GLaDOS's isolated conditions, it's highly improbable it had infinite knowledge. However, it is likely, or at least possible, that it had infinite knowledge of itself and its surroundings. As you said though, that doesn't mean it does.

So yes. I think its entirely possible that these tests were done and these people were placed through such extreme conditions solely for the purpose of experimentation and study. This wasn't an obstacle course. Most obstacle courses don't have such a high percentage of fatality. These scientists did not expect nor want their subjects to come out alive, of that I feel sure of.

I never did say I viewed it as being impossible. However, it does strike me as improbable. After all, would the benefits gained from the experimentation outweigh the possible public backlash if it were to get out? Apparently they thought so, otherwise they wouldn't have funded it, but I have to wonder what exactly the benefits were. That is, aside from the usages of the ASHPD being shown or recorded.

In a way, I think she believes that she both has a connection with Chell yet still had to kill her anyway, like how one would have to put down a dog once it becomes rabid.

That is possible, and it would coincide with GLaDOS's unusual personality.

Anyway, if any of the stuff that came before wasn't speculation, this definitely is, and we'll find out about the specifics of the Portal Gun eventually.

I can't say I completely agree, in regards to the two halves bit, but I do agree that it was mostly a gameplay device to train the player in the acquisition of the other "half."

Now I wouldn't be so hasty in stating that, "Oh, It's the Combine, of course they can hack into any measly human computer." For one, we've never seen (at least to my knowledge) the Combine hack into anything, and its quite possible that prior to their invasion of Earth they didn't even know that such things as computers existed. And even if this wasn't the case, GLaDOS is no ordinary computer. Either way, we both agree the point is moot since there is no evidence to suggest that the Combine even knows that GLaDOS exists.

As far as I know as well, there hasn't been any indication of them hacking, but that's not to say they couldn't or haven't. They didn't know of computers before arriving to Earth seems a bit on the..Incredible side, don't you think? What with all the monitors we encounter throughout the course of Half-Life 2, heck, we're introduced to one right at the beginning. You're right though, GLaDOS isn't an ordinary computer. Whatever the case, it remains a moot point.

Edit: By the way, my apologies for the week delay, I've been getting into Bioshock lately.

 

[G(ordon)-man]

Whoa, this is intelligent.

:monkee:

 

[WriterforHire]

Once again I had to break this up into two posts, and, not only that, but I couldn't even divide it at the natural break before. Bear with me here, please, this is proving to be quite the pain in the arse.

Possible, certainly, assuming of course that the test chambers have remained the same over the years. Which there is every indication that they have; however, as the designs are completely unethical, especially for human test subjects, it raises many questions to the legality of what proceeded there. Then again, if the subjects were mentally unstable, for whatever reason, they could see it as fun, but there's no indication that those tested started out insane.

I find it very unlikely that the test subjects were insane prior to the test. While its rather clear that due to the tests, that people went insane, how could the scientists see the effects such environments had on humans, how quickly and affectively humans can use the ASHPD, if their subjects were insane? It'll skew the results. Also, I agree entirely that the testing is unethical, and your point about the legality of what happened is valid: However, there are two possibilities that I think cover it. One: that the government knows about the tests and, while not funding them, allow them to occur. Two: The tests are done in secret. No one knows. I think the first is more likely then the second, after all, Aperture needs something to fall back on if their project ever got revealed, the government's support would be just the sort of thing to make sure the media doesn't get their hands on this juicy bit of news.

Well, let's keep in mind that they did have an entire line of sentries in mass production. It does sound unlikely, especially given all the assumptions one would need to make for it to be viable, but the idea shouldn't be completely discarded.

Here's the thing though. When you really think about it, you see nothing new in Aperture. Nothing new at all. Those mass produced turrets already exist in the Half Life universe, except that these turrets are programmed to speak. Energy balls existed priorly, and due to Episode One, we found out that the reciever for the energy ball wasn't a new concept either. Even the ASHPD isn't all that new. We've known about teleportation since HL1. Really the only really, really new thing we see in Portal is GLaDOS, a actual sentient computer.

Also, the actual taxing nature of the tests must be put into consideration. The tests require great mental and physical effort, but what use would such a study be if it were andriods that were being put through the rigor? You can't make any conclusions about humans, who will probably end up with the ASHPD. Also, in order to solve the puzzles requires actual thought and thought is just what a andriod does not have. So, unless you are going to say that Aperture not only is capable of making andriods but also is capable of making sentient andriods, (a army of mini-GLaDOSes) then putting them through those tests is simply impossible.

Yes, that's the incredibly unlikely idea I had in mind, and that's why I didn't bother to flesh it out.

Ah! I'm glad to see that my insight was actually on the mark this time around.

Now, I wouldn't be too hasty to dismiss it, in comparison to the andriod theory this one at least has the benefit of the fact that Vortigaunts are undisputably real, which goes a long way from the beginning. However, there are still many holes. Firstly, there's the problem that there doesn't seem to be any racism or contention between the humans and the Vortigaunts, so that undermines it considerably, for it would be incredibly easy for the experiments to be run if the scientists did not think that the Vortiguants had any rights due to the fact they weren't human. There's also the problem, just like the Combine, that there isn't any proof that GLaDOS knows that Vortigaunts even exits, but, far more importantly, the nail in the cofine for this theory is this one, indisputable fact:

The vortiguants weren't even on Earth at the time of the Enrichment Center's conception and creation.

Think about it: While it's uncertain where Portal takes place in regards to Half Life, due to the Aperture Science website, we know for sure that Aperture was first formed in the 1953. That's long, long before the Resonance Cascade. The Enrichment Center was probably constructed in 1981 to 1985, when Aperture was working on Portal technology but had not yet created GLaDOS. Unless Aperture knew of the Vortigaunts and knew they would come to Earth or somehow found out a way to get to Xen, then there is no way that the Enrichment Center was meant for them.

Fear would work..But has GLaDOS ever shown any fear whatsoever? At the moment I can't recall any exact moments that I would attribute fear to. Unless the destruction of the morality core counts, but that doesn't strike me as fear. This is actually a very interesting point, GLaDOS claims to know what will happen after you die, and regardless of its situation, doesn't show any fear. Perhaps an indicator of knowledge regarding the existence of its own backup? Considering those points..It contributes to bits of my ideas in relation to termination and acting.

I thought that GLaDOS showed fear continually throughout the time I was moving through the back areas of the Enrichment Center. The closer I got to her, the more desperate sounding her voice became. She was constantly taunting you, telling you to give up, that your going the wrong way, sent two ambushes on you, freaked out the moment you escaped the firepit, and, most importantly to my mind, the comments, "This isn't brave, it's murder" and "The only difference between you and me is that I have feelings and you don't." Both of these comments do four things, show that what your doing is wrong, justify her own actions, get you to stop what your doing and show you that GLaDOS herself feels emotion and is actually affected by your actions. I see this all as her freaking out and becoming desperate.

A good point, but GLaDOS claims to know what occurs after death. At least, your death. Besides, GLaDOS doesn't exactly have a human psyche.

She also claims to know what happens after the death of a disobedient andriod, they go to a place called Andriod Hell. It doesn't sound like a pleasant place now does it?

But note, why does she mention that she has your brain on backup? That she knows what will happen to you after death? She says it to stop you from destroying her. She threatens to delete your backup if you keep fighting and then claims to have done so. Now, regardless of whether a backup of your brain did exist, there's still the fact that all that she said and did in that final chamber was all to try to stop you from killing her. The bottom line is, either she was freaking out and actually trying to stop you or she was doing reverse physcology and wanted to die for some reason.

You're right, and I agree, we are. That aside, I'm quite certain I recall hearing one of the Valve team saying just what you said, and it's a very good design decision.

Now don't get me wrong, just because I believe it's a design decision doesn't mean it doesn't have any correlation to the backstory of Portal. Everything I said before I stand to.

I see your point more clearly now. I never claimed it was a sound argument on my part, and you never said that I was attempting to make it appear sound. Actually, looking over it, it's definitely much clearer. That was most certainly a flawed argument on my part. As a matter of fact, you have my thanks for making my mistaken logic clear to me. I try to respond to these more intricate discussions when I feel my mind is in a proper state, but sometimes it is not the case.

Don't we all? Heck, even as I'm writing all of this, a part of me wonders if I even know what the heck I'm talking about. I had a debate in my Bible class a couple of days ago, and I barely got through my points before I got several eyerolls, confused / disgusted looks, and a couple of angry mutterings. It didn't really make me feel good about my debating skills...

It's a good thing I wasn't hoping for an answer then, eh? The only suspect I can think of is the Rat Man, but even that fellow ends up trapped within the Enrichment Center. And the only reason I suspect the Rat Man is that I imagine he or she would have been amongst the higher-ups, or at least part of the personnel with access to the computers as they were aware of the login information.

Oh, surely you can imagine more than that? I've actually come up with a few ideas that I'm going to implement in a fanfiction, but I'm not going to mention it because that's just where such speculation belongs: in fanfiction. I think Aperture rotten from the inside, but the how, who and why escape me.

One you happened to miss is the peculiar "telepathic tendril" we see during the end fight.

I didn't really miss it, but more like dismissed it. I don't think that was actually a action on GLaDOS's part. After all, that implies that GLaDOS herself disattached the orb and placed it in a hard to reach place. That's not what happens, GLaDOS is hit by a rocket and the orbs break off one by one. I saw that "telepathic tendril" more as a game - mechanic or a attribute of the orbs themselves, as if they release energy as they are broken off which makes them move and, once that energy is spent, are frozen in the spot they are in (even if that spot is in mid-air). Also, if GLaDOS wanted to be terminated, yet could controls said tendrils, why not lay them on the ground? It would seem to be a natural reaction after being struck yet would require far less effort on Chell's part to retrieve them. Yet, at the same time, if GLaDOS is trying to live, why release the orbs at all? Why not reattach them? It doesn't work either way. But it makes sense entirely if the "tendrils" can not be controlled by GLaDOS.

Assuming of course that they didn't run tests before the initial activation that could have provided brief glimpses of humanity. That would count under shady speculation though, as would my idea of GLaDOS processing information at a much higher rate than the human mind.

How would doing tests prior to GLaDOS's activation give her a glimpse of humans? I was under the impression that GLaDOS wouldn't be able to comprehend anything until she was activated, where she would then be "born".

How are we sure that he was a test subject? The majority of the evidence provided does lend itself to that, but there's the issue of the login information. I mean, he or she may have had years to figure that out, but how would he or she if he or she was just a test subject? If he or she was anything like us, the player, he or she would be completely ignorant of the three-tier plan. You are correct though, in regards to the blasting materials. Of course, if the Ratman were to open a portal around one of the rocket sentries and at the top of that wall..But there's nothing to indicate that.

Are test subjects born test subjects? Only if your a clone and were born in the lab. So it's entirely possible that the Rat Man was originally a Aperture employee, but then was later forced to be a test subject. That would explain the inconsistency. But, even then, I say the only thing we know for certain about the Rat Man is that he's a subject is because the login just might be only a easter egg. It could be that it was never intended to be part of the "person" of the Rat Man, it was, after all, scribbled on the bottom of a wall. I couldn't really read the words well originally either. It also doesn't help that there are things on the website that I don't think are canon: like the Application for instance.

Too true! As can be seen in my usage of obviously later in my previous post.

Once again, I feel the urge to use a real-life example.

Today in my AP Lit class, my teacher, Mrs. Starkey, was going over (for what feels like the hundredth time) what makes up a good thesis. One of the things she mentioned was that a thesis is trying to prove a point and that a good thesis doesn't use vague words such as "It seems" or "perhaps". I pointed out that this would prevent you from using anything else but facts, since if the point is in any way uncertain, you would naturally use uncertain language. Which she then replied, "If you have enough evidence to back up your claim, and you believe its true, say it's true."

I think this is the main division most debaters (and apparently essay writers) fall into, those who speak vaguely to give room to uncertainty and those who state their argument like a fact. Yet both can use good arguments, evidence and logic. It's merely a matter of word choice.

I agree with the first part, as I've said, even I found the Borealis idea a tad on the shaky side, along with the backup, but the latter idea makes more sense now. I suppose I see how it doesn't go against GLaDOS's protocol, but the idea I was getting from your view of the protocol barred the subject from ever getting that close to GLaDOS.

Yes, my view of standard protocal prevented hte subject from getting that close to GLaDOS or surviving through the Chambers at all, however, I think that the rocket sentry was to fight against any threat, not only Chell, the escaped test subject.

 

[WriterforHire]

Here's the second half (again).

Indeed, it's open to many possibilities.

In some way, all theories are possible. Even the OMG! THE GMAN IS GORDON! theory. Some theories, however, are more likely then others, the problem is being unbiased enough to look at the evidence and see which one is the most likely. For example, I have had the idea of this "Foul Player" as a fanfic idea for a while now, and I am still uncertain whether my bias for my writing ideas have tainted my view of the evidence. I don't think so, but then again it's always possible.

That's a good point, and could also be attributed to the normal sentries as well.

The normal sentries have eyes? Musta missed that one...

That does make sense, to an extent. How was Chell a threat though? All Chell had was the ASHPD, and the incinerator. If the Morality Core hadn't just conveniently fallen at the time of our arrival, we wouldn't have been able to do any damage whatsoever. At least, not very quickly.

I was thinking more along the lines of the fact that Chell had the intention to do harm. It's like that often in real life. A person who has no weapons, has no real physical attributes going for him, but nevertheless has the will to kill, that person can and will be perceived as dangerous, especially depending on how obsessed he is with violence. If Chell was determined enough to harm GLaDOS then she might have found a way to do without the rocket sentry. The Portal Gun and the incinerator is half the battle! Heck, with those two things, all that was needed was a way to knock the orbs down.

I must not have mentioned it in the post you responded to, but I do know I've mentioned it in this one. The peculiar "telepathic tendril" is a possibility. If you're not certain what I'm referring to, it's the thing that appears to place the cores in the inconvenient locations. Perhaps even holding them in place, in the case of one of them.

And as I said earlier, I don't think this is actually a power that GLaDOS has but rather a side-effect of the orbs falling off, that or the mysterious power we call a Game - Mechanic, the same power which allowed for the incinerator to be coincidentally in the same room as a living computer! What purpose would such a incinerator serve?

That is a good point, but it also gives Chell one more incentive, as if she needed more, to terminate GLaDOS. Perhaps a bit of, hurry and get it over with, on GLaDOS's part or as you point out, get yourself over with, there's nothing more you can do.

I think GLaDOS was past the point of trying to play nice with Chell. As she herself said, "From here on out there will be far less talking and far more killing." She tried to kill her with the fire pit and then tried to kill her with the ambushes. It was a bit too late to back down now.

True, it says something along those lines.

Though it does work a bit in your favor that she recognizes that the rocket sentry was near to useless. Because then she could have planned that someone with a Portal Gun could redirect the rockets. But then again, it could easily be the case that the sentry was installed against her wishes and that while GLaDOS thought the sentry was useless, the scientists did not.

It's rather funny, as I was typing that part of my post you quoted, I was thinking you would be able to identify more than one change.

It's always easier to guess what someone will do online then it is to guess what someone will do in real life. For some reason or another, you can just get to know someone without knowing them through the web.

That's quite right. However, as I was saying, if it was exactly the same..Well, it makes it a bit more probable that it did what it claims. Doesn't confirm it though, you're right.

Oh. I get it. You were talking about a emotional slip up. Like how if someone claimed that he killed a person, but no change came over his personality / present emotions, then it was probably a lie / a joke. But if there was a sudden change (like his tone became deeper or his attitude darker) than it just naturally seems more probable. Yes. That's true. But the problem with GLaDOS is that she's all over the place all the time. You just can't be sure with her about anything.

That it is..I get the feeling I'm going to have to split this post. If this turns into a triple-post response..Well, I'll be even more impressed. Edit: Jolly good! I didn't need to split it, it's always a tad difficult to decide where the proper place is to divide it.

As you can see, I couldn?t keep this in one post again. The last thing we want is to clutter up the thread with multiple posts. I?ll try to make my points more concise from now on.

And here's mine!

I actually don't have anything to say to this, but I'm writing anyway. It must be a disease or something...

It really, truly, doesn't make sense. However, at least we came to a similar conclusion in regards to the possibilities, that is, the programming part. That still doesn't exactly sit well with me, but considering the possibility of foul play posed by yourself, it's a bit more viable.

I think, if the Neurotoxin Release happened, then, at most, there's three reasons for it:

1. She malfunctioned and went on a killing spree for no reason.

2. She was programmed / ordered to release it.

3. She thought it was the best course of action for the perseverance of science / the Enrichment Center.

There's probably endless amount of theories that can be made on why GLaDOS did what she did. But I think that these three broad categories fit the best. My personal theory, of course, fits under 2. Yours, at least how you originally described it, fits under 3. And the majority of players falls under 1.

Well, you're right, and in GLaDOS's isolated conditions, it's highly improbable it had infinite knowledge. However, it is likely, or at least possible, that it had infinite knowledge of itself and its surroundings. As you said though, that doesn't mean it does.

I would actually say that GLaDOS has a extremely limited amount of knowledge. After all, her entire world is her chamber and the tests, which she can only see through the cameras on the walls. What's the world like? The rest of the facility? Who knows.

I never did say I viewed it as being impossible. However, it does strike me as improbable. After all, would the benefits gained from the experimentation outweigh the possible public backlash if it were to get out? Apparently they thought so, otherwise they wouldn't have funded it, but I have to wonder what exactly the benefits were. That is, aside from the usages of the ASHPD being shown or recorded.

People do stupid things. All the time. Watergate was stupid. The Holocast was stupid. Both of those secrets got out and caused a huge backlash. Watergate in America and the Holocast in the world. Aperture would have been the same.

That is possible, and it would coincide with GLaDOS's unusual personality.

This actually is getting me to think about looking into all of GLaDOS' quotes. See just what she says about Chell. I'm sure, since it's been so long since I've played Portal, that it'll be a real eye-opener.

I can't say I completely agree, in regards to the two halves bit, but I do agree that it was mostly a gameplay device to train the player in the acquisition of the other "half."

What else could it be? We see through the Portals that Chell only holds one gun. GLaDOS, in Still Alive, mentions gun in the singular. If they were two guns, Chell would hold the "Blue Portal Gun" in one hand and the "Orange Portal Gun" in the other. But that's not the case. Somehow, it becomes one gun.

As far as I know as well, there hasn't been any indication of them hacking, but that's not to say they couldn't or haven't. They didn't know of computers before arriving to Earth seems a bit on the..Incredible side, don't you think? What with all the monitors we encounter throughout the course of Half-Life 2, heck, we're introduced to one right at the beginning. You're right though, GLaDOS isn't an ordinary computer. Whatever the case, it remains a moot point.

Edit: By the way, my apologies for the week delay, I've been getting into Bioshock lately.

I was actually waiting for this part. Save the best for last, eh?

You see this is the reason why I don't particularly like sci - fi, in many, (or at least the ones I've read) books they assume that the devolpment of a alien world would follow closely, if not match identically, to Earth's. They assume that other planets would have such things as cars, TVs, buildings, airplanes, all the stuff we have, but much, much, more. How much do we really know about the Combine prior to their inhabitation of Earth? Not very much. Heck, the only technology we actually know that both Earth and the Combine shared prior to the Seven Hour War was teleportation. How are we to know that the Combine had ever seen a computer before they came to Earth? Ever seen a car? Those are creations, inventions, that were made on Earth. The reason you see computer monitors all around isn't because the Combine lugged in their own computers, but rather because they took the computers that already existed on Earth and adapted them to their own purposes.

Perhaps you are thinking that this can't be the case, because they did take down Earth in seven hours, so that must mean they're very technologically advanced. Now, I'm not saying they aren't. What I'm saying is that you can be technologically advanced without having computers. After all, if they can teleport in all over the world, catching everyone by surprise, and have Striders, Hunters, and Airships by the hundreds invading and killing, of course it'll take them all by surprise. But does this require computer terminals? Or cars? Not really. And even though the Combine can make synths, that by no means indicates that they have any knowledge of computers. When it comes down to it, we hardly know anything about the Combine, what the extent of their power is, the extent of their capabilites, or the extent of their territory. For all we know the Combine Empire could be one of many transuniversal empires, and can even be the weakest of them all. We just don't know.

Oh. And playing Bioshock is the best excuse ever. I'm surprised you managed to pry yourself off it to write all that. Kudos, man!

Whoa, this is intelligent.

:monkee:

Now are your being sarcastic or serious? I can never tell, and I've put my foot in my mouth more times than I can count because I've assumed someone was being serious over the web. Well, if you are being serious then, thank you, and would you possibly like to join in? It's fine with one against one, but another mind to pick apart always makes debating more enjoyable. If your being sarcastic, then what can we do better? Because I assure you, the last thing I want is for this to derail and become a uninteligent blob of juiced up speculation.

It might already be too late though...

 

[pilot7893]

The bottom line is, either she was freaking out and actually trying to stop you or she was doing reverse physcology and wanted to die for some reason.

Might I reccomend the following website?
http://kotaku.com/376958/portals-glados-as-bondage-slave
It's quite interesting. It explains how GLaDOS was a slave to the Aperture Science workers, and wanted Chell to kill her so she could be free.

 

[WriterforHire]

Might I reccomend the following website?
http://kotaku.com/376958/portals-glados-as-bondage-slave
It's quite interesting. It explains how GLaDOS was a slave to the Aperture Science workers, and wanted Chell to kill her so she could be free.

I've actually read through all the articles. But I never did get around to writing a indepth critique of it like I was originally planing to do, that, and a part of me thinks it wouldn't be worth it, from the sound of the very wording this guy on Game-ism seemed rather convinced of his own theory. But thanks anyway, and you are right, it is a interesting read, even if I only agree with a very slim portion of what he talks about.

 

[Gmr Leon]

Bear with me here, please, this is proving to be quite the pain in the arse.

Apologies on my part in regards to that, as my lack of concision doesn't assist the issue. Also apologies for the delay in regards to my response, I've been doing this and that such as trying to catch up on reading.

I find it very unlikely that the test subjects were insane prior to the test.

I happen to agree with you on that, as I admitted at the end that there was no indication of the subjects lacking sanity.

I think the first is more likely then the second, after all, Aperture needs something to fall back on if their project ever got revealed, the government's support would be just the sort of thing to make sure the media doesn't get their hands on this juicy bit of news.

I happen to agree with you here as well; however, while government support could keep that news under wraps, it could just as equally attract the media's attention. Either way though, their involvement is certainly likely, even if it is simply in allowing it to slip by without directly supporting or funding it.

Here's the thing though. When you really think about it, you see nothing new in Aperture. Nothing new at all. Really the only really, really new thing we see in Portal is GLaDOS, a actual sentient computer.

Too true..When you put it in that way. Androids would be completely new in the Half-Life universe, and as you clearly stated, there's nothing particularly new in the facility besides GLaDOS.

Also, in order to solve the puzzles requires actual thought and thought is just what an android does not have. So, unless you are going to say that Aperture not only is capable of making androids but also is capable of making sentient androids, (an army of mini-GLaDOSes) then putting them through those tests is simply impossible.

Right..And even then, if they weren't sentient, they would simply be preprogrammed with the solution already in mind which wouldn't provide valid results in regards to a human's operation of the device. So, yes, it would seem that even if androids were existent in Aperture, humans would be the only valid test subjects.

The vortigaunts weren't even on Earth at the time of the Enrichment Center's conception and creation.

Exactly why I was so hasty to dismiss the idea before it had to come to any sort of fruition.

Unless Aperture knew of the Vortigaunts and knew they would come to Earth or somehow found out a way to get to Xen, then there is no way that the Enrichment Center was meant for them.

Another point that made me dismiss my fleeting idea. Not to mention it appears as though the technologies developed by Aperture and Black Mesa utilize radically different methodologies to achieve a similar convenient form of transportation. However, what is interesting that I've noticed as I've been replaying Half-Life over the past few days is that it would seem access to Xen existed at least some time prior to the Resonance Cascade's occurrence. However, it also seems any specimens retrieved from Xen were contained, and thus would not have reached Aperture's eyes unless they had someone working within Black Mesa. Which, there is, of course, no evidence for.

I thought that GLaDOS showed fear continually throughout the time I was moving through the back areas of the Enrichment Center. The closer I got to her, the more desperate sounding her voice became. She was constantly taunting you, telling you to give up, that you're going the wrong way, sent two ambushes on you, freaked out the moment you escaped the firepit, and, most importantly to my mind, the comments, "This isn't brave, it's murder" and "The only difference between you and me is that I have feelings and you don't." Both of these comments do four things, show that what your doing is wrong, justify her own actions, get you to stop what your doing and show you that GLaDOS herself feels emotion and is actually affected by your actions. I see this all as her freaking out and becoming desperate.

I suppose, however I still have difficulty, and this is simply on my part, understanding the capability of fear within an AI. Termination of any nature of a living specimen will cause it to react with desperation, it's a basic instinct of practically any multicellular organism that I can think of. GLaDOS is an AI though..A construct..It can be rebuilt, it can upload its memories to backups, and most importantly, it can't die as it isn't alive. As such..What does it have to fear? Why would it fear? I realize that this can't possibly be answered with in-game evidence and lends itself more to speculation, but it's a fascinating aspect for an AI to possess. Truly GLaDOS is the HAL of this generation, yet transcending it in its emulation of human emotion.

The bottom line is, either she was freaking out and actually trying to stop you or she was doing reverse psychology and wanted to die for some reason.

True..And I still think it's the latter. Programming aside, I can't understand what motivation GLaDOS would have to kill you, but this is due to my perspective on the situation that lends itself to preparation of the subject for the exterior world. All of the ambushes leading up to the final fight with GLaDOS could be viewed as GLaDOS freaking out as their motivators, or applying further pressure on the subject. If the subject dies, well, that's a lot of effort wasted, but what else could GLaDOS possibly do within the Enrichment Center? It would appear it doesn't have any sensors on the outside to assist in its understanding of the outside situation, so it's a bit stuck with doing what it can within its limited environment and resources within the Enrichment Center.

Now don't get me wrong, just because I believe it's a design decision doesn't mean it doesn't have any correlation to the backstory of Portal.

Understood.

Don't we all? Heck, even as I'm writing all of this, a part of me wonders if I even know what the heck I'm talking about. I had a debate in my Bible class a couple of days ago, and I barely got through my points before I got several eyerolls, confused / disgusted looks, and a couple of angry mutterings. It didn't really make me feel good about my debating skills...

I understand that viewpoint all too well, and moments such as those are always rather pleasant, are they not? Always a bit of a bother those are, on a less sarcastic note.

Oh, surely you can imagine more than that? I've actually come up with a few ideas that I'm going to implement in a fanfiction, but I'm not going to mention it because that's just where such speculation belongs: in fanfiction. I think Aperture rotten from the inside, but the how, who and why escape me.

Imagine, yes, but whenever I'm trying to devise who it is on the basis of information provided, no. Well, actually, I can, but that fellow is never directly indicated as being involved. Also, just something I realized the other day as I was finishing up Minerva: Metastasis, those pipes breaking? We both seem to have overlooked the simple possibility of pressure building and causing the shattering of the pipes. If the Rat Man managed to figure out a way to mess with the pipes, well..He wouldn't need any explosives or anything of that sort. Though the pipes are bent as though from an projectile of some sort, it's just as easy they weren't bent from the resulting explosion from the pressure buildup.

It doesn't work either way. But it makes sense entirely if the "tendrils" can not be controlled by GLaDOS.

Good point, I would view it as further testing under pressure personally. Seeing if you could recall all of what you had learned under the extreme pressure of possible death.

How would doing tests prior to GLaDOS's activation give her a glimpse of humans? I was under the impression that GLaDOS wouldn't be able to comprehend anything until she was activated, where she would then be "born".

Well, there are times where you bring a system online to check for glitches, correct them, possibly implement new features, and etc. Now, we know GLaDOS is capable of seeing through all of the cameras at once; that isn't a feature you can complete in one attempt, you'd have to work out the synchronization bugs that would result. Which would mean bringing the system online to synchronize GLaDOS with the cameras, in other words, its sensory data. Now, with that in mind, in those moments GLaDOS would get brief glimpses as they tried to fine-tune it all. Whether or not they chose to wipe the recordings or not is unknown, but it is almost certain they would have to bring the existing parts of GLaDOS online for the synchronization of it with the cameras.

I couldn't really read the words well originally either. It also doesn't help that there are things on the website that I don't think are canon: like the Application for instance.

That is a good point, and that was a bit of a mental blot on my part. One has to remind oneself that even characters in a story can play several roles.

I think this is the main division most debaters (and apparently essay writers) fall into, those who speak vaguely to give room to uncertainty and those who state their argument like a fact. Yet both can use good arguments, evidence and logic. It's merely a matter of word choice.

Indeed. I have the unintentional tendency to be very vague in my writings as not only does it allow myself room to explain if someone does inquire, but also to evade in the event of the information I'm providing being inaccurate. In fact, I remember this one article I wrote back in an Intro. to Journalism class in which one of the girls who read it couldn't quite discern which side I was on; if that provides any evidence to just how vague my writing can be, then I know not what can.

Yes, my view of standard protocol prevented the subject from getting that close to GLaDOS or surviving through the Chambers at all, however, I think that the rocket sentry was to fight against any threat, not only Chell, the escaped test subject.

That does make sense, although, I do have to wonder what threats they could have been expecting.

 

[Gmr Leon]

Some theories, however, are more likely then others, the problem is being unbiased enough to look at the evidence and see which one is the most likely. For example, I have had the idea of this "Foul Player" as a fanfic idea for a while now, and I am still uncertain whether my bias for my writing ideas have tainted my view of the evidence. I don't think so, but then again it's always possible.

True, it's a tad like reading an article on a racist image prior to viewing the image. After you've read the article, it's likely to be blatantly obvious, or you'll be more likely to notice the racism. However, had you not read the article, it's possible you may not have noticed it at all.

The normal sentries have eyes? Musta missed that one...

Well, they look similar to eyes, just as the green spots on the rocket sentries appear similar to eyes. They could simply be for show, but if I'm not mistaken, the laser light is emitted from the red eye of the normal sentries.

A person who has no weapons, has no real physical attributes going for him, but nevertheless has the will to kill, that person can and will be perceived as dangerous, especially depending on how obsessed he is with violence.

That is a good point.

What purpose would such a incinerator serve?

Isn't it described as an emergency intelligence incinerator at one point? In the event of some intrusion of GLaDOS's databases I suppose that would be their method of keeping their records under wraps. That or GLaDOS was designed with the intent to use it for hacking purposes, in which the information would be stolen, and the incinerator would be used, again, for the termination of their records to prevent their release. Although in that latter case it would be the termination of their records due to playing the role of evidence if it was brought up in a court case.

I think GLaDOS was past the point of trying to play nice with Chell. As she herself said, "From here on out there will be far less talking and far more killing." She tried to kill her with the fire pit and then tried to kill her with the ambushes. It was a bit too late to back down now.

True, but GLaDOS certainly isn't very effective at it, as I'm sure you'll agree. The neurotoxins take far too long and the sentry is easily evaded.

But then again, it could easily be the case that the sentry was installed against her wishes and that while GLaDOS thought the sentry was useless, the scientists did not.

That could be the case, either way, it's still a pretty pitiful defensive mechanism. Your legs would need to be broken in some way for it to hit you, I imagine. In comparison to the neurotoxin, it makes the neurotoxin look far more effective. Place the chamber under lockdown, feed in the neurotoxin, and taunt them as they die. Humiliation and inescapable death, what more could you ask for?

It's always easier to guess what someone will do online than it is to guess what someone will do in real life. For some reason or another, you can just get to know someone without knowing them through the web.

Indeed, especially considering that at least in this area, we are limited by our only ability being to communicate.

But the problem with GLaDOS is that she's all over the place all the time. You just can't be sure with her about anything.

Right, which is what makes it difficult to distinguish between its independent actions and actions based on preprogrammed protocol.

There's probably endless amount of theories that can be made on why GLaDOS did what she did. But I think that these three broad categories fit the best. My personal theory, of course, fits under 2. Yours, at least how you originally described it, fits under 3. And the majority of players falls under 1.

More or less, yeah, that would be where mine would fit under.

I would actually say that GLaDOS has an extremely limited amount of knowledge. After all, her entire world is her chamber and the tests, which she can only see through the cameras on the walls. What's the world like? The rest of the facility? Who knows.

That's an interesting bit of insight into your perspective on it. I always viewed GLaDOS's world as being the entire Enrichment Center facility where there were cameras. Still, aside from the information programmed into it, and the bits it's picked up through observation, you're right, it would be very limited.

People do stupid things. All the time. Watergate was stupid. The Holocast was stupid. Both of those secrets got out and caused a huge backlash. Watergate in America and the Holocast in the world. Aperture would have been the same.

I suppose, but there's always a purpose behind the stupidity. And I'm certain we're both aware of the stupidity behind the events you noted.

This actually is getting me to think about looking into all of GLaDOS' quotes. See just what she says about Chell. I'm sure, since it's been so long since I've played Portal, that it'll be a real eye-opener.

Any analysis of GLaDOS is likely to appear an eye-opener as your perception will have altered a bit since the last time you played. Considering the odd changing of tones as it states things, and its tendency to lie, it could be, as we've both stated I'm fairly certain, interpreted as meaning many things.

What else could it be? We see through the Portals that Chell only holds one gun. GLaDOS, in Still Alive, mentions gun in the singular. If they were two guns, Chell would hold the "Blue Portal Gun" in one hand and the "Orange Portal Gun" in the other. But that's not the case. Somehow, it becomes one gun.

That's just it, I don't have a clue. I think the existence of two is merely a gameplay mechanic, and doesn't actually represent two individual guns or two halves of the same gun. We clearly see them, yes, but we also see that both are whole guns.

Those are creations, inventions, that were made on Earth. The reason you see computer monitors all around isn't because the Combine lugged in their own computers, but rather because they took the computers that already existed on Earth and adapted them to their own purposes.

While I don't disagree that they adapted them..Doesn't the process of adaptation lend itself to familiarity with the technology? Familiarity with the technology that could only occur if they had created something similar or had come across another civilization with similar technology. One cannot adapt an existing structure to their purposes if they are unfamiliar with the inner workings and mechanics of the structure, right? An example being the arch, you can't exactly construct it without understanding the mechanics which go into making it stable. That's what made it such a feat of engineering with the Romans after all.

What I'm saying is that you can be technologically advanced without having computers.

And I don't disagree with you.

After all, if they can teleport in all over the world, catching everyone by surprise, and have Striders, Hunters, and Airships by the hundreds invading and killing, of course it'll take them all by surprise. But does this require computer terminals? Or cars? Not really.

It certainly helps though.

And even though the Combine can make synths, that by no means indicates that they have any knowledge of computers. When it comes down to it, we hardly know anything about the Combine, what the extent of their power is, the extent of their capabilites, or the extent of their territory. For all we know the Combine Empire could be one of many transuniversal empires, and can even be the weakest of them all. We just don't know.

True. However, consider what a computer consists of, and it seems that they must at least have an understanding of the components. They just utilized the components in a different manner, in the construction of machines and synthetic troops, rather than computers. That still seems a bit awkward to me, though. After all, we utilize computers to program machines, so skipping computers and somehow constructing machines which function as well as they do seems a bit..Odd. Of course, I suppose, the machines could be a new addition to their forces, after adapting the computer technology to their purposes, and in that case it would simply mean they had advanced mostly in biotechnology rather than normal technology. Certainly an intriguing prospect, but there isn't any support for it due to our lack of information regarding the Combine.

Oh. And playing Bioshock is the best excuse ever. I'm surprised you managed to pry yourself off it to write all that. Kudos, man!

Aye, I think I only managed to do that because I finally managed to get into Mr.Andrew Ryan's quarters, a part I had heard much of, and had been eagerly attempting to get to since I purchased the game. Spectacular twist, that.

Again, apologies for my delay in this response. I've been reading, playing, and just doing everything else but responding to this. I find that a bit fascinating actually..Because I enjoy these discussions, as they are intellectually stimulating.

 

[WriterforHire]

Apologies on my part in regards to that, as my lack of concision doesn't assist the issue. Also apologies for the delay in regards to my response, I've been doing this and that such as trying to catch up on reading.

I also must apologize. I've been quite a bit busy lately. Hope you don't mind.

I happen to agree with you on that, as I admitted at the end that there was no indication of the subjects lacking sanity.

I realized that, but I just made the arguement for the heck of it.

Too true..When you put it in that way. Androids would be completely new in the Half-Life universe, and as you clearly stated, there's nothing particularly new in the facility besides GLaDOS.

Yes, though the fact is a bit overshadowed due to the ASHPD, which is, ultimately, the star of Portal. When one thinks of "technology" and "Portal" the Portal Gun is what they'll think of - that or GLaDOS herself.

Right..And even then, if they weren't sentient, they would simply be preprogrammed with the solution already in mind which wouldn't provide valid results in regards to a human's operation of the device. So, yes, it would seem that even if androids were existent in Aperture, humans would be the only valid test subjects.

Yet, the question then comes, how did these humans become test subjects? Either it was against their will, or they willingly became subjects but were deceived, or they were deranged enough (or had some other extreme motivation) to take the tests knowing the risks.

Exactly why I was so hasty to dismiss the idea before it had to come to any sort of fruition.

I realized that you had dismissed the idea; I decided to mention and refute it for the heck of it. Perhaps a waste of time, but I enjoyed it.

Another point that made me dismiss my fleeting idea. Not to mention it appears as though the technologies developed by Aperture and Black Mesa utilize radically different methodologies to achieve a similar convenient form of transportation. However, what is interesting that I've noticed as I've been replaying Half-Life over the past few days is that it would seem access to Xen existed at least some time prior to the Resonance Cascade's occurrence. However, it also seems any specimens retrieved from Xen were contained, and thus would not have reached Aperture's eyes unless they had someone working within Black Mesa. Which, there is, of course, no evidence for.

No, that's not necessarily true. From the website we know that Aperture found out that Black Mesa was working on teleportation technology, so they decided to create GLaDOS to combat that. Now, either they found this information out due to it being common knowledge or they used some sort of intelligence work to get it out. Considering the fact that Black Mesa was a secret research facility, it's safe to say that both Xen and the new teleportation technology was a secret. This and the fact that Aperture was paranoid enough about Black Mesa to have a slideshow which compare itself to them, I would say it's fairly safe to assume that it's possible that an agent of theirs was working in Black Mesa on some level.

But, of course, this does not mean that they would manage to get their hands on a Vortigaunt (or a line of Vortigaunts). That requires a completely different scale of subterfuge.

I suppose, however I still have difficulty, and this is simply on my part, understanding the capability of fear within an AI. Termination of any nature of a living specimen will cause it to react with desperation, it's a basic instinct of practically any multicellular organism that I can think of. GLaDOS is an AI though..A construct..It can be rebuilt, it can upload its memories to backups, and most importantly, it can't die as it isn't alive. As such..What does it have to fear? Why would it fear? I realize that this can't possibly be answered with in-game evidence and lends itself more to speculation, but it's a fascinating aspect for an AI to possess. Truly GLaDOS is the HAL of this generation, yet transcending it in its emulation of human emotion.

I say it would fear because, once it is destroyed, that is it. She?s gone for good. She?ll stop existing.

Who would rebuild it? And, to GLaDOS, it must seem to her that she is very alive. (After all the song is Still Alive not Still Existing) And as for the backup, if GLaDOS knew that it existed, yes, then she wouldn?t have to fear, but if she didn't know that she had a backup, or, if she thought it was offline or broken, then she could logically conclude that if Chell managed to destroy her she would die. It?s because of this misconception that GLaDOS calls Chell heartless, because she does feel pain and emotion.

As for how Aperture would manage to create a computer that actually has human emotion. I have no idea.

Then again, they never really do explain such things in other sci-fi novels / movies, do they?

True..And I still think it's the latter. Programming aside, I can't understand what motivation GLaDOS would have to kill you, but this is due to my perspective on the situation that lends itself to preparation of the subject for the exterior world. All of the ambushes leading up to the final fight with GLaDOS could be viewed as GLaDOS freaking out as their motivators, or applying further pressure on the subject. If the subject dies, well, that's a lot of effort wasted, but what else could GLaDOS possibly do within the Enrichment Center? It would appear it doesn't have any sensors on the outside to assist in its understanding of the outside situation, so it's a bit stuck with doing what it can within its limited environment and resources within the Enrichment Center.

Yet what reason would she have for wanting to be destroyed either? Though many humans, sadly, decide to commit suicide, many more decide to live, and, in fact, statistically it is those who live in the harshest, most extreme environments who are the most adamant to survive and those who live in leisure the more ready to kill themselves when some disaster comes their way.

Also, as I said, I can't see how GLaDOS personally is preparing the subject for anything. The test is designed to kill the subject throughout and even at the end of the Chambers. Chell, much like Gordon, defied unimaginable odds in order to escape the Enrichment Center, anyone else would have died. You. Me. Everyone and anyone.

By the point that Chell makes it out of the final Chamber, she doesn't need any more motivation to go and destroy GLaDOS ? She ignores everything that GLaDOS says and becomes closer and closer to where GLaDOS actually dwells. Especially if GLaDOS had a way of tracking how Chell was progressing, it?ll be only natural that she'll try to prevent Chell from coming. She knows that Chell has the Portal Gun and must have realized how easy Chell could manipulate the elements in her room to kill her off. This, combined with her own lack of knowledge (or certainty of knowledge) of what would happen to her after death seems enough to me for GLaDOS to be afraid and trying to prevent or kill Chell before she could enter in. Her change in personality after Chell escapes and begins to approach her seems too genuine to me to be fabricated so that GLaDOS could put some unnecessary "pressure" on Chell.

Also, why should GLaDOS even care about what is going on in the outside world? It seems to me so long as the Center is running and she is capable of performing experiments that GLaDOS would be content.

(By the way: I think this is probably the strongest argument for the Clone Theory. How has GLaDOS continued doing experiments after the scientists left? Surely they would run out of test subjects. Yet the scientists did not seem to have any qualms with killing off the subjects and GLaDOS fully expected to continue to do experiments after Chell left. I think if the Enrichment Center was capable of mass producing clones then that would explain the scientists disregard for human life (because, technically, the clones don?t exist and they aren't really "human") and the ability for Aperture to have a seemingly endless supply of subjects even after the facility was emptied.)

Understood.

Good.

I understand that viewpoint all too well, and moments such as those are always rather pleasant, are they not? Always a bit of a bother those are, on a less sarcastic note.

Yes. It's nice to know that others have gone through the same experiences, eh? I think, save for turning to God (I'm a devout Christian), understanding that others have gone through the same troubles you have is probably the best way to cope with your everyday issues.

There is my moment of wisdom that I am required to have once every other year.

Imagine, yes, but whenever I'm trying to devise who it is on the basis of information provided, no. Well, actually, I can, but that fellow is never directly indicated as being involved. Also, just something I realized the other day as I was finishing up Minerva: Metastasis, those pipes breaking? We both seem to have overlooked the simple possibility of pressure building and causing the shattering of the pipes. If the Rat Man managed to figure out a way to mess with the pipes, well..He wouldn't need any explosives or anything of that sort. Though the pipes are bent as though from an projectile of some sort, it's just as easy they weren't bent from the resulting explosion from the pressure buildup.

I too think he can easily be made to fit somewhere or another in Aperture?s collapse, but I too agree there?s not a shred of evidence for his involvement however. Though it would be really cool if he, or a hint of him, managed to show up in some upcoming Portal game, wouldn't it? But that'll be a bit too much to hope for, eh? Well. There?s always fanfiction.

As for the pressure build up? I feel like an idiot. I so should have saw that.

Good point, I would view it as further testing under pressure personally. Seeing if you could recall all of what you had learned under the extreme pressure of possible death.

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. I stated that the "telepathic tendrils", as you called them, were not an actual attribute of GLaDOS and, in fact, she could not use them. Therefore, she couldn't use the positioning of the orbs to put more pressure on Chell. But, let's say for a moment that yes - she made those tendrils and deliberately placed those orbs in hard to reach places - the question then becomes why. Why would GLaDOS bother to do this? It's not another attempt at trying to kill Chell - so it would not add further motivation for Chell, all that did was make it difficult for Chell to collect the orbs. It would seem far more natural to Chell for those orbs to simply fall onto the ground like the first Morality Orb, knocked off or sent flying due to the rocket, but otherwise following the course of nature. So if GLaDOS hadn't done it then it would still seem to Chell that everything was following quite naturally and that GLaDOS wasn't directly manipulating her.

Here's another thing. You keep hinting that you think that GLaDOS never really had any issues with Chell at all and simply wanted to use her as a sort of self - destruct. But, here's a thought that neither of us have mentioned yet: why didn't GLaDOS just go clean then? Why didn't she out-rightly tell Chell her reasoning? If Chell refused to help (by destroying her) then GLaDOS could go and play as psychotic killer and push Chell to the point where she would have to destroy GLaDOS to escape.

Well, there are times where you bring a system online to check for glitches, correct them, possibly implement new features, and etc. Now, we know GLaDOS is capable of seeing through all of the cameras at once; that isn't a feature you can complete in one attempt, you'd have to work out the synchronization bugs that would result. Which would mean bringing the system online to synchronize GLaDOS with the cameras, in other words, its sensory data. Now, with that in mind, in those moments GLaDOS would get brief glimpses as they tried to fine-tune it all. Whether or not they chose to wipe the recordings or not is unknown, but it is almost certain they would have to bring the existing parts of GLaDOS online for the synchronization of it with the cameras.

Well, when you put it like that, then sure, she would have seen glimpses of humanity then. But that still begs the question of why she would unleash the neurotoxin the moment she was activated. You would think, with those few glimpses that she would naturally feel attached to humanity in some way - after all, the scientists were creating her and giving her "life" so to speak.

That is a good point, and that was a bit of a mental blot on my part. One has to remind oneself that even characters in a story can play several roles.

It's not hard to loose yourself in the surface of a character and not dwell on his deeper thoughts or history. Take the rebels in Half Life, for instance. Most players treat them like fodder, not really caring one way or another if they live or die while fighting besides you and, over all, tend to get annoyed with their low AI. But, in the world of Half Life, they are real people, with real feelings and a real past. How did they come into the Resistance? What are their day to day lives? Who are their families? What do they think of the Combine? Of Gordon? Played right, a minor or insignificant character in any story can be made the lead character in a different story.

Indeed. I have the unintentional tendency to be very vague in my writings as not only does it allow myself room to explain if someone does inquire, but also to evade in the event of the information I'm providing being inaccurate. In fact, I remember this one article I wrote back in an Intro. to Journalism class in which one of the girls who read it couldn't quite discern which side I was on; if that provides any evidence to just how vague my writing can be, then I know not what can.

I understand that feeling quite well, though I must say that I probably won?t ever find myself in your shoes. I can?t ever see myself ever becoming a journalist.

That does make sense, although, I do have to wonder what threats they could have been expecting.

This is one of the things I'll be addressing in my fanfiction story (if I ever get around to writing it that is) but if you look solely at the evidence given to us from the game itself, there?s literally no hint for why Aperture would be so spooked about a possible attack, though I am quite sure that they were spooked by a possible attack. After all, they were a research facility! Why make a research facility into a self-sustaining, mass producing turret maker if they would only use the cute little buggers for the tests? Why have rocket sentries in the back rooms? Or give GLaDOS the capability of setting up turret ambushes in the back rooms?

Anyway, this is about it for now. I'll get onto the second half later. Oh. If you happen to notice I skipped one of your points, (the part about the government). My comment on it was mostly off topic, but I'll still throw it in with the second half, this is just to stay under the word limit.

 

[WriterforHire]

True, it's a tad like reading an article on a racist image prior to viewing the image. After you've read the article, it's likely to be blatantly obvious, or you'll be more likely to notice the racism. However, had you not read the article, it's possible you may not have noticed it at all.

This is what I particularly dislike about studying poetry in school. The teacher always ends up telling the class what the symbolism means in the poem, far before the majority of them come to figure it out for themselves. Granted, the majority of them don't care enough to actually bother to work through it to find out anyway but still it's a pet peeve of mine.

Now that I'm thinking about it, what do you do to try to keep the bias out of your arguments / logic? I normally end up rereading some of the things I write that I feel hesitant about and do some editing afterwards, but, other than that, I don't do much.

Well, they look similar to eyes, just as the green spots on the rocket sentries appear similar to eyes. They could simply be for show, but if I'm not mistaken, the laser light is emitted from the red eye of the normal sentries.

Hm. I went online and took a look at a couple of pictures, and I have to say your right. It does look like the turrets have a glowing red eye in the middle that emits that beam of light. I always just assumed that it was a red dot, but it truly does look like an eye. Perhaps this eye, and the programmed phrases, was meant to make the turrets seem more human?

That is a good point.

Thanks. I have one of those from time to time.

Isn't it described as an emergency intelligence incinerator at one point? In the event of some intrusion of GLaDOS's databases I suppose that would be their method of keeping their records under wraps. That or GLaDOS was designed with the intent to use it for hacking purposes, in which the information would be stolen, and the incinerator would be used, again, for the termination of their records to prevent their release. Although in that latter case it would be the termination of their records due to playing the role of evidence if it was brought up in a court case.

Yes, I went ahead and checked on Youtube. She calls it a Aperture Science Emergency Intelligence Incinerator. Note that she says it?s a emergency intelligence incinerator, which implies that there are more of them in the facility. (The other incinerators in the test, perhaps?)

I think this is even more proof that Aperture was afraid of some trouble stirring in their own facility, and I think, at the very least, we can say what it was over: the technology in the Enrichment Center. After all, it?s easy to imagine that teleportation technology and GLaDOS herself would be worth millions, and the uses that a ?Genetic Lifeform? and teleportation can have in the world at large is more then enough to grab the attention of people with power at their disposal.

True, but GLaDOS certainly isn't very effective at it, as I'm sure you'll agree. The neurotoxins take far too long and the sentry is easily evaded.

Not only is she not effective at it, she was almost helpless in a way. Which I think would certainly fit in with the dynamic that was set up. She seemed throughout the back rooms to be desperate in persuading Chell away, to not do what she was clearly planning on doing. And when she finally got there it turns out that killing GLaDOS was the easiest puzzle of them all. I think GLaDOS knew this. She brought out the defenses available to her, but other than that she was defenseless as Chell took advantage of them (like GLaDOS probably would have suspected she would) to kill her.

That could be the case, either way, it's still a pretty pitiful defensive mechanism. Your legs would need to be broken in some way for it to hit you, I imagine. In comparison to the neurotoxin, it makes the neurotoxin look far more effective. Place the chamber under lockdown, feed in the neurotoxin, and taunt them as they die. Humiliation and inescapable death, what more could you ask for?

Perhaps a platform that slowly drops into a fire pit and the only other option is to jump back into electrified water, maybe?

Also, I think you?re onto something with the ?legs being broken bit? only perhaps instead of broken legs, bound legs? I think such sentries would be effective if you have a row of victims lined up, bound and gagged, on the floor. Throw in some victims, fire up the neurotoxins, bring out the sentry and lock down the doors and you got a mix for instant overkill.

Unless you?re Gordon Freeman and you have a magic suit, of course.

Indeed, especially considering that at least in this area, we are limited by our only ability being to communicate.

?Realmente? ?Es el unico limite?

Yes. I'm being a jerk. But the point still stands. Language can be quite the barrier.

Right, which is what makes it difficult to distinguish between its independent actions and actions based on preprogrammed protocol.

I wasn?t talking about her programming in that quote, though that?s very true. I was speaking solely of her odd and unusual behavior that most players peg down to malfunctions. She openly admits to lying. She goes on the fritz and even causes the lights to go out and suddenly s speaks in a multitude of language, and all that on our first meeting of her. No matter how much we debate about it, I doubt we will ever be sure how much GLaDOS says is because of humans making her say it when you reach that point, because she freely chooses to say and do the things she does, or because there?s some bug in her and so it?s neither.

More or less, yeah, that would be where mine would fit under.

On second thought, I think my personal theory falls somewhere between the second and the third, after all, you can be ordered to do something and personally agree with the course of action. In fact, in most war crimes, such is the case since the soldiers were reared up (brainwashed) into that type of thinking.

That's an interesting bit of insight into your perspective on it. I always viewed GLaDOS's world as being the entire Enrichment Center facility where there were cameras. Still, aside from the information programmed into it, and the bits it's picked up through observation, you're right, it would be very limited.

That is what I believe also. But, if you pay close attention, there are no cameras in the back areas at all. There are some speakers, but those are used for communication not surveillance. As for the possibility that there are more parts of the facility that have more cameras, that is entirely possible, even likely, but we don't see those areas in the game so we can?t be entirely sure.

I suppose, but there's always a purpose behind the stupidity. And I'm certain we're both aware of the stupidity behind the events you noted.

Yes. There's always a reason. There?s a reason for every action on the face of the earth, even the craziest and the actions viewed as the most evil - like murder. But the problem with Aperture, and one I'm still having trouble swallowing, is that we are to believe these studies went on without the notice of the government or their funding. Take the German experiments for example. Those happened in a dictatorship under the direct authority of the government. In the USA, I can't see such events occurring - ever. But fiction tends to take aspects of reality and twist it to fit its own needs. Even so, I wish that Valve brushed up on their US Gov.

Any analysis of GLaDOS is likely to appear an eye-opener as your perception will have altered a bit since the last time you played. Considering the odd changing of tones as it states things, and its tendency to lie, it could be, as we've both stated I'm fairly certain, interpreted as meaning many things.

Yes. Unfortunately I have yet to get around to doing that. Been a bit busy lately, I?m in a play actually, but this is production week, so I'll have more time on my hands after that.

That's just it, I don't have a clue. I think the existence of two is merely a gameplay mechanic, and doesn't actually represent two individual guns or two halves of the same gun. We clearly see them, yes, but we also see that both are whole guns.

I personally hate the "game play mechanic" argument. Yes. It is a game play mechanic, but that does not mean that it has no significance to the back-story. What we know is that Chell collects two guns a Blue one and a Yellow one, but almost immediately they become the actual ASHPD. I think its best just to leave it at that.

While I don't disagree that they adapted them..Doesn't the process of adaptation lend itself to familiarity with the technology? Familiarity with the technology that could only occur if they had created something similar or had come across another civilization with similar technology. One cannot adapt an existing structure to their purposes if they are unfamiliar with the inner workings and mechanics of the structure, right? An example being the arch, you can't exactly construct it without understanding the mechanics which go into making it stable. That's what made it such a feat of engineering with the Romans after all.

Think about this though. The Combine had the amount of resources at their disposal during their initial invasion to take over the entire world in seven hours. Then, from that point at least twenty years passed. If they kept those resources at their disposal I think that is more then enough time to get them use to the new technology of computers and then adapt them for their own purposes. Now just as a bit of clarification: Yes, they might have had, and probably did have, computers. What I'm arguing, once again, is that we can't know for sure.

And I don't disagree with you.

Well then, perhaps I should word it this way: I don't see the necessity of the Combine needing computers prior to their invasion of Earth to reach this point of technological advancement that they are currently in.

It certainly helps though.

This might be my naivety talking but: How would computers help?

True. However, consider what a computer consists of, and it seems that they must at least have an understanding of the components. They just utilized the components in a different manner, in the construction of machines and synthetic troops, rather than computers. That still seems a bit awkward to me, though. After all, we utilize computers to program machines, so skipping computers and somehow constructing machines which function as well as they do seems a bit..Odd. Of course, I suppose, the machines could be a new addition to their forces, after adapting the computer technology to their purposes, and in that case it would simply mean they had advanced mostly in biotechnology rather than normal technology. Certainly an intriguing prospect, but there isn't any support for it due to our lack of information regarding the Combine.

I've realized now that this discussion about computers is rather off topic, since the core of the debate is over why GLaDOS does what she does and the events that may have lead up to Portal. So I'll leave it at this. Due to our lack of knowledge of what the Combine was like prior to the Portal Storms / 7 Hour War and because of the possibility that the computer monitors and synths are recent adaptations it?s possible that if the Combine were to find GLaDOS and try to hack into her they might not be capable of doing so.

Aye, I think I only managed to do that because I finally managed to get into Mr.Andrew Ryan's quarters, a part I had heard much of, and had been eagerly attempting to get to since I purchased the game. Spectacular twist, that.

Again, apologies for my delay in this response. I've been reading, playing, and just doing everything else but responding to this. I find that a bit fascinating actually..Because I enjoy these discussions, as they are intellectually stimulating.

I also loved that twist. I loved everything about BioShock actually, especially the intense atmosphere and immersion quality to it. Also, there's no need to apologize, I too was late in submitting my parts. I look forward to hearing your reply.

As for these debates being "intellectually stimulating" that goes without saying! :E

Alright here's the part I skipped. I'm hoping this all fits:

I happen to agree with you here as well; however, while government support could keep that news under wraps, it could just as equally attract the media's attention. Either way though, their involvement is certainly likely, even if it is simply in allowing it to slip by without directly supporting or funding it.

Now, just a bit of clarification, when I say that "the government" is likely to be involved, I mean that the government as it is portrayed by Half Life is likely to be involved, because that government is shown to be a bit corrupt and has a centralized power (as in able to order and have their will done as a unified whole instead of the divided and fractioned government you see in US in real life) In reality, I believe there is a 0 percent chance for the US government to keep such unethical procedures a international secret. The government is really terrible at keeping secrets, which is the reason why I take many alien conspiries with a grain of salt.

Granted, that's all a bit off topic, but I felt it necessary to make that distinction.

 

[flamingdts]

COMBOOOOO BREAKER.

No seriously this is some strong discussions being brought up, I have to admit I only read the original post, which was insightful and innovative.

That being said, the story is not yet written in stone, so we cannot speculate as Valve themselves don't know where to go with portal yet.

 

[Gmr Leon]

I also must apologize. I've been quite a bit busy lately. Hope you don't mind.

Not a bit do I mind.

Yes, though the fact is a bit overshadowed due to the ASHPD, which is, ultimately, the star of Portal. When one thinks of "technology" and "Portal" the Portal Gun is what they'll think of - that or GLaDOS herself.

I suppose so, but I also tend to think of the floating platforms and the stairs in GLaDOS's chamber that I like to call "aerogel" stairs due to their appearance reminding me of that substance.

Yet, the question then comes, how did these humans become test subjects? Either it was against their will, or they willingly became subjects but were deceived, or they were deranged enough (or had some other extreme motivation) to take the tests knowing the risks.

I think the second option is perhaps the likeliest given the feel of Portal. However, there also remains the clone possibility which is brought up later in your post.

No, that's not necessarily true. From the website we know that Aperture found out that Black Mesa was working on teleportation technology, so they decided to create GLaDOS to combat that. Now, either they found this information out due to it being common knowledge or they used some sort of intelligence work to get it out. Considering the fact that Black Mesa was a secret research facility, it's safe to say that both Xen and the new teleportation technology was a secret. This and the fact that Aperture was paranoid enough about Black Mesa to have a slideshow which compare itself to them, I would say it's fairly safe to assume that it's possible that an agent of theirs was working in Black Mesa on some level.

See, now that is a bit of information I was completely unaware of. I've been to the site, but I've not been over it very thoroughly, so I suppose that would be why.

Who would rebuild it? And, to GLaDOS, it must seem to her that she is very alive. (After all the song is Still Alive not Still Existing) And as for the backup, if GLaDOS knew that it existed, yes, then she wouldn't have to fear, but if she didn't know that she had a backup, or, if she thought it was offline or broken, then she could logically conclude that if Chell managed to destroy her she would die. It's because of this misconception that GLaDOS calls Chell heartless, because she does feel pain and emotion.

This is the crux of the issue though, neither of us can confirm or deny GLaDOS's awareness of a backup, and of its status. As such, we can't say with absolute certainty that it was true fear.

As for how Aperture would manage to create a computer that actually has human emotion. I have no idea.

Then again, they never really do explain such things in other sci-fi novels / movies, do they?

Ironic as it may be, I can't say. I read a lot, but I've never exactly delved into sci-fi literature. However, from what I've seen of movies, then yes, they never really do.

Yet what reason would she have for wanting to be destroyed either?

To release Chell, is one possibility, to release itself to its backup is another. We've been over these a few times, and I realize that my proposed possibilities aren't exactly the most spectacular, but they seem the most probable from my perspective.

Although, there's also the possibility that you seem to adhere to, which is altogether probable, that GLaDOS did want to survive and failed.

Also, as I said, I can't see how GLaDOS personally is preparing the subject for anything. The test is designed to kill the subject throughout and even at the end of the Chambers. Chell, much like Gordon, defied unimaginable odds in order to escape the Enrichment Center, anyone else would have died. You. Me. Everyone and anyone.

While the test itself may have been designed with that intent in mind, what would be the point of running it if the end conclusion would consistently be death? What information would one draw from that? Innovative ways of dying utilizing the ASHPD? If the tests weren't designed with the intent of training people to utilize the ASHPD, and they weren't designed with the intent of preparing the subject for the situation outside the Enrichment Center which, at the time of its construction wouldn't have existed now that I think about it, then what exactly is the point of the test as a whole?

If GLaDOS can alter the test's intent to be that of preparation for the completely different situation outside, then it would at least be beneficial in the way of possible information gathering. GLaDOS might not have eyes outside, but what if it has ears? I know there's no indication for this, and this is going on shaky speculation, but it does suggest that it doesn't have a complete understanding of what's going on outside. This seems to imply to me that it must at least have some sensory apparatus allowing it to get an idea, and if it isn't eyes, then it must be ears. Considering the method of communication of the Resistance, it's entirely possible GLaDOS caught bits of it, most likely relating to that of issues with transportation. Which would make the ASHPD invaluable, as we know their current method isn't completely reliable. That's very shaky though..

Also, why should GLaDOS even care about what is going on in the outside world? It seems to me so long as the Center is running and she is capable of performing experiments that GLaDOS would be content.

Well, let's think of it in terms of a simple hypothetical situation. Say a human has an infinite capacity for knowledge, but is trapped within a small room with monitors linked to cameras to other rooms in the building. After a few years, the human has observed the monitors and seen everything there is to see about each room, and let's say he/she can release a rat to observe its interactions with whatever is in each room, and has observed every possible interaction with and without his/her direct intervention. You'd be sick of it, there would be nothing new to find, you would know everything about those rooms of the building which contained cameras, and every possible interaction a rat could have with the contents of those rooms with and without your intervention. So under those circumstances, that human would want to learn more about what was outside of those rooms, outside of the building. Slowly but surely, that human would likely devise a way to attach something to the rat to allow him/her to see outside, and release it from the building.

I wouldn't say it's so much due to caring about what's going on, but simply having a thirst that needs to be sated.

(By the way: I think this is probably the strongest argument for the Clone Theory. How has GLaDOS continued doing experiments after the scientists left? Surely they would run out of test subjects. Yet the scientists did not seem to have any qualms with killing off the subjects and GLaDOS fully expected to continue to do experiments after Chell left. I think if the Enrichment Center was capable of mass producing clones then that would explain the scientists disregard for human life (because, technically, the clones don?t exist and they aren't really "human") and the ability for Aperture to have a seemingly endless supply of subjects even after the facility was emptied.)

I would have to agree, but my major issue with that possibility is that, as far as I know, there's been no shown cloning within the Half-Life universe.

Yes. It's nice to know that others have gone through the same experiences, eh? I think, save for turning to God (I'm a devout Christian), understanding that others have gone through the same troubles you have is probably the best way to cope with your everyday issues.

Indeed, especially considering I'm not much of a devout anything in regards to religion.

I too think he can easily be made to fit somewhere or another in Aperture's collapse, but I too agree there's not a shred of evidence for his involvement however. Though it would be really cool if he, or a hint of him, managed to show up in some upcoming Portal game, wouldn't it? But that'll be a bit too much to hope for, eh? Well. There's always fanfiction.

Perhaps, but I've read a few rumors about Portal 2 being a prequel, so it may be possible. Assuming the rumors come to fruition.

As for the pressure build up? I feel like an idiot. I so should have saw that.

You're not the only one, I kept throwing grenades at the pipes to try and break them before I discovered the puzzle behind it which led to that idea.

I think you missed the point I was trying to make.

Ah, you're quite right, I completely missed it. I've already stated my possible why in regards to it. Though, I'm a tad confused as to what you were getting at with the natural thing; unless it was simply that not doing so would not make the manipulation directly apparent.

Here's another thing. You keep hinting that you think that GLaDOS never really had any issues with Chell at all and simply wanted to use her as a sort of self-destruct. But, here's a thought that neither of us have mentioned yet: why didn't GLaDOS just go clean then? Why didn't she out-rightly tell Chell her reasoning? If Chell refused to help (by destroying her) then GLaDOS could go and play as psychotic killer and push Chell to the point where she would have to destroy GLaDOS to escape.

Well, the first that pops into mind is that GLaDOS, at least seemingly, can't conveniently teleport her or transport her up to her chamber. Not only that, but I don't think there was even an elevator outside GLaDOS's chamber, so it couldn't simply redirect it to there. Think about it, we had to go about an extremely round about route to even get to it. If you told someone that they had to risk their life simply to blow something up or kill someone they didn't even know, do you think they would really be motivated to do so? Now, given, Chell does have the prospect of escape, but...She doesn't have a clue as to what's even going on outside. And provided that GLaDOS wasn't pushing her and threatening her, the Enrichment Center would seem like a pretty safe place if you remained in one area. I think that's the easiest reason as to why not, GLaDOS didn't know how Chell would react or if she would even feel motivated to progress, even with freedom as an option.

Oh, and a little nitpick that I can't believe I missed, that should be telekinetic..I tend to get telepathic and telekinetic mixed up sometimes.

Well, when you put it like that, then sure, she would have seen glimpses of humanity then. But that still begs the question of why she would unleash the neurotoxin the moment she was activated. You would think, with those few glimpses that she would naturally feel attached to humanity in some way - after all, the scientists were creating her and giving her "life" so to speak.

Traumatize a child with something, an old man, women, obese people, whatever, and see how they act towards them once they're an adult. Depending on what exactly traumatized them, their actions may be violent. This same scenario could apply to GLaDOS, it could have observed something traumatic that made it decide upon that course of action.

Played right, a minor or insignificant character in any story can be made the lead character in a different story.

Indeed.

I understand that feeling quite well, though I must say that I probably won't ever find myself in your shoes. I can't ever see myself ever becoming a journalist.

Well, whenever you find yourself needing another class to graduate or get a degree, you go with the lesser of the two evils. It was rather enlightening to see how influential journalism could be in the political playing field.

Why have rocket sentries in the back rooms?

The funny part about that first rocket sentry is that, at least to me, it seemed as though it was an experimental model as it was between two observation rooms.

 

[Gmr Leon]

This is what I particularly dislike about studying poetry in school. The teacher always ends up telling the class what the symbolism means in the poem, far before the majority of them come to figure it out for themselves. Granted, the majority of them don't care enough to actually bother to work through it to find out anyway but still it's a pet peeve of mine.

I know what you mean, it always makes me wonder what interpretation I may have come upon had they not injected its meaning prior to my reading of it.

Now that I'm thinking about it, what do you do to try to keep the bias out of your arguments/logic? I normally end up rereading some of the things I write that I feel hesitant about and do some editing afterwards, but, other than that, I don't do much.

I tend to read bits of my sentences aloud to see if they sound correct most of the time and if they fit the tone I'm going for. Aside from that, I just write what I'm thinking at the time, without thinking about my personal opinions or beliefs. I more or less reduce my mental state to a blank slate and let my thoughts flow out.

Hm. I went online and took a look at a couple of pictures, and I have to say your right. It does look like the turrets have a glowing red eye in the middle that emits that beam of light. I always just assumed that it was a red dot, but it truly does look like an eye. Perhaps this eye, and the programmed phrases, was meant to make the turrets seem more human?

I would think so, especially given their entire design is rounded, and appears softer, nicer. Almost like something you'd see as a decorative item in an executive's office which could be activated if the executive is threatened. I think the only reason I noticed the eye was because of previous games I've played, such as Megaman Legends where the robots you fight have this trademark red eye.

Yes, I went ahead and checked on Youtube. She calls it a Aperture Science Emergency Intelligence Incinerator. Note that she says it's a emergency intelligence incinerator, which implies that there are more of them in the facility. (The other incinerators in the test, perhaps?)

That's what I would think of. I don't see why there wouldn't be other incinerators, aside from the seeming lack of usage.

I think this is even more proof that Aperture was afraid of some trouble stirring in their own facility, and I think, at the very least, we can say what it was over: the technology in the Enrichment Center. After all, it's easy to imagine that teleportation technology and GLaDOS herself would be worth millions, and the uses that a Genetic Lifeform and teleportation can have in the world at large is more then enough to grab the attention of people with power at their disposal.

True.

Not only is she not effective at it, she was almost helpless in a way. Which I think would certainly fit in with the dynamic that was set up. She seemed throughout the back rooms to be desperate in persuading Chell away, to not do what she was clearly planning on doing. And when she finally got there it turns out that killing GLaDOS was the easiest puzzle of them all. I think GLaDOS knew this. She brought out the defenses available to her, but other than that she was defenseless as Chell took advantage of them (like GLaDOS probably would have suspected she would) to kill her.

Which then makes you wonder why GLaDOS pushed Chell so far to the point of being willing to kill it. Perhaps it really did lose control when you destroyed the Morality Core, but if it didn't, why would it raise those defenses that would not only pressure Chell further to destroy it to stop the Neurotoxins, but provide the means with which to destroy it? It seems far too convenient, in my opinion.

Perhaps a platform that slowly drops into a fire pit and the only other option is to jump back into electrified water, maybe?

Ah, perhaps, but you wouldn't get to watch them suffer for a bit of time.

Also, I think you're onto something with the legs being broken bit only perhaps instead of broken legs, bound legs. I think such sentries would be effective if you have a row of victims lined up, bound and gagged, on the floor. Throw in some victims, fire up the neurotoxins, bring out the sentry and lock down the doors and you got a mix for instant overkill.

I suppose, especially considering it wouldn't have the same moral issues as a human.

Yes. I'm being a jerk. But the point still stands. Language can be quite the barrier.

Quite..Also, was that even proper Spanish?

I wasn't talking about her programming in that quote, though that's very true. I was speaking solely of her odd and unusual behavior that most players peg down to malfunctions. She openly admits to lying. She goes on the fritz and even causes the lights to go out and suddenly s speaks in a multitude of language, and all that on our first meeting of her. No matter how much we debate about it, I doubt we will ever be sure how much GLaDOS says is because of humans making her say it when you reach that point, because she freely chooses to say and do the things she does, or because there's some bug in her and so it's neither.

Ah, yes, that I would have to agree on.

That is what I believe also. But, if you pay close attention, there are no cameras in the back areas at all. There are some speakers, but those are used for communication not surveillance. As for the possibility that there are more parts of the facility that have more cameras, that is entirely possible, even likely, but we don't see those areas in the game so we can't be entirely sure.

True. Although I did just realize that depending on what exactly GLaDOS is capable of, it may be able to see through its ears. By that, of course, I mean sonar. In fact..GLaDOS's dialogue may seem to indicate that in a way. "I know you're there. I can feel you here." However that may be stretching it just a bit.

But the problem with Aperture, and one I'm still having trouble swallowing, is that we are to believe these studies went on without the notice of the government or their funding. Take the German experiments for example. Those happened in a dictatorship under the direct authority of the government. In the USA, I can't see such events occurring - ever. But fiction tends to take aspects of reality and twist it to fit its own needs. Even so, I wish that Valve brushed up on their US Gov.

I would have to agree, it does seem rather farfetched that those studies occurred without government observance.

Yes. Unfortunately I have yet to get around to doing that. Been a bit busy lately, I'm in a play actually, but this is production week, so I'll have more time on my hands after that.

How ironic. A play is occurring around here just conveniently in production week as well. Strange, eh?

I personally hate the "game play mechanic" argument. Yes. It is a game play mechanic, but that does not mean that it has no significance to the back-story. What we know is that Chell collects two guns a Blue one and a Yellow one, but almost immediately they become the actual ASHPD. I think its best just to leave it at that.

Honestly, I don't care for it either, but sometimes it's the only or the best conclusion I or one can come to.

Think about this though. The Combine had the amount of resources at their disposal during their initial invasion to take over the entire world in seven hours. Then, from that point at least twenty years passed. If they kept those resources at their disposal I think that is more then enough time to get them use to the new technology of computers and then adapt them for their own purposes. Now just as a bit of clarification: Yes, they might have had, and probably did have, computers. What I'm arguing, once again, is that we can't know for sure.

I hadn't considered their occupation timespan, that would certainly provide any civilization of their caliber plenty of time to get accustomed to the existing technology and adapt and advance it to their level.

Well then, perhaps I should word it this way: I don't see the necessity of the Combine needing computers prior to their invasion of Earth to reach this point of technological advancement that they are currently in.

Er..Again, I don't disagree with you, I see it as completely possible. It's a tad difficult for me to imagine, but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.

This might be my naivety talking but: How would computers help?

Calculations, inventories, simulations, detecting wormholes/portals with which to traverse through, instant worldwide/universal communication (something akin to the internet), and etc. I'm not sure what they would use to do those things otherwise, but I'm sure those are possible to achieve without computers.

]I've realized now that this discussion about computers is rather off topic, since the core of the debate is over why GLaDOS does what she does and the events that may have lead up to Portal. So I'll leave it at this. Due to our lack of knowledge of what the Combine were like prior to the Portal Storms / 7 Hour War and because of the possibility that the computer monitors and synths are recent adaptations it's possible that if the Combine were to find GLaDOS and try to hack into her they might not be capable of doing so.

Under those circumstances I would have to agree.

I also loved that twist. I loved everything about BioShock actually, especially the intense atmosphere and immersion quality to it. Also, there's no need to apologize, I too was late in submitting my parts. I look forward to hearing your reply.

That's good to know. As to BioShock, the only qualm I've found thus far is that what occurs after that twist feels a tad bit anticlimactic, as though the game should have ended there.

As for these debates being "intellectually stimulating" that goes without saying! :E

Indeed.

Now, just a bit of clarification, when I say that "the government" is likely to be involved, I mean that the government as it is portrayed by Half Life is likely to be involved, because that government is shown to be a bit corrupt and has a centralized power (as in able to order and have their will done as a unified whole instead of the divided and fractioned government you see in US in real life) In reality, I believe there is a 0 percent chance for the US government to keep such unethical procedures a international secret. The government is really terrible at keeping secrets, which is the reason why I take many alien conspiracies with a grain of salt.

Granted, that's all a bit off topic, but I felt it necessary to make that distinction.

Ah, right, well I would have considered it as the government existing in the Half-Life universe anyway. It would seem a tad odd to consider the real-world government in the story rather than the story's own version of the government.

 

[WriterforHire]

Not a bit do I mind.

I'm glad. I've actually already gone through three of the performances, only one left, which is today. Though it's been a lot of fun, I'll be glad when it's finally over.

I suppose so, but I also tend to think of the floating platforms and the stairs in GLaDOS's chamber that I like to call "aerogel" stairs due to their appearance reminding me of that substance.

Ah. How could I have forgotten about those floating platforms? Yes. Those were very peculiar, however, it's the ASHPD that you constantly use throughout the game, and so is always in the backdrop of your mind, one way or another, and GLaDOS herself is extremely alluring; if she were not, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion, no would we?

By the way: I've never actually seen or heard of this "aerogel" stuff, but I'll take your word for it.

I think the second option is perhaps the likeliest given the feel of Portal. However, there also remains the clone possibility which is brought up later in your post.

Perhaps, though honestly I think it can be any of the three options, even the radical last one. As for the clone thing: I just want you to know that I don't believe that theory. I mentioned a part I thought provided a strong case for it, nothing more; nothing less.

See, now that is a bit of information I was completely unaware of. I've been to the site, but I've not been over it very thoroughly, so I suppose that would be why.

The information on the site wasn't worded quite like how I worded it here. It was more like "in response to" or "with consideration of" or something of that sort, rather than to combat. But I think the word is suiting. They created GLaDOS to one up Black Mesa. So, they must have learned that Black Mesa was using teleportation technology somehow.

This is the crux of the issue though, neither of us can confirm or deny GLaDOS's awareness of a backup, and of its status. As such, we can't say with absolute certainty that it was true fear.

While this is quite right, the thing is that GLaDOS' emotions sounded far too genuine, her actions just a bit too extreme if it was all merely a ploy. If GLaDOS really wasn't trying to protect herself, out of a sense of self-preservation, then she must be one heck of an actress, I don't see why the scientists would even bother to give her such a capability; how does that fit in with her designated duties?

Ironic as it may be, I can't say. I read a lot, but I've never exactly delved into sci-fi literature. However, from what I've seen of movies, then yes, they never really do.

Okay. Back and reverse time.

They do give an explanation...sort of. They take phrases that sound familiar, and theories that actually exist, and push them to a new limit or throw in some other variable to make it sound plausible. Take Black Mesa teleportation, for example. When we finally get to Black Mesa East, we start to talk to the scientists there and get caught up in a rather intelligent talk about the nature of teleportation. In it, they, meaning Judith, mentions the String Theory, which is the theory the time-space continuum is stretched out like a thread and thefore, if such a string can be folded, that would allow for teleportation (or wormholes). Half Life took this concept, and said that through the borderworld that is Xen, humans can actually create a small fold, which allows teleportation to be possible.

However, the main issue I have with this is that they don't explain how or why. They simply say it does. Such is the case with many sci-fi things. They give a rough outline, throwing in familiar words and plausible sounding scenarios and expect the readers/viewers/gamers to eat it up. I can buy what Valve has given me, but I still want more.

The average gamer, however, is more concerned with shooting things and wreaking havoc than actual intellectual wonders like teleportation, so there is an excuse.

To release Chell, is one possibility, to release itself to its backup is another. We've been over these a few times, and I realize that my proposed possibilities aren't exactly the most spectacular, but they seem the most probable from my perspective.

After debating with you for some time, I've come to see the second one; GlaDOS wishing to be freed to go to her backup, as very plausible. But I still don't see the logic of the first point. Chell was, after all the 234th subject, why would GLaDOS care about releasing her, or preparing her, but not the others? Did GLaDOS want to "release" as you say, all the other subjects yet simply failed?

Although, there's also the possibility that you seem to adhere to, which is altogether probable, that GLaDOS did want to survive and failed.

Yes, I particularly think this is so, I just can't imagine that those emotions are fabricated, that, and the developer commentary node, which spoke of how the developers wanted GLaDOS' tone to sound scared and more openly threatening all make me think that these emotions were meant to be legitimate and not brushed aside as part of GLaDOS quirkiness or for some other alternative (oft-time farfetched) theory.

While the test itself may have been designed with that intent in mind, what would be the point of running it if the end conclusion would consistently be death? What information would one draw from that? Innovative ways of dying utilizing the ASHPD? If the tests weren't designed with the intent of training people to utilize the ASHPD, and they weren't designed with the intent of preparing the subject for the situation outside the Enrichment Center which, at the time of its construction wouldn't have existed now that I think about it, then what exactly is the point of the test as a whole?

Before I can answer this question, I have to ask you this: Why are experiments done in the first place?

Always, always, a experiment is done to answer a specifc question (or string of questions). Most of the time they follow precisely the Scientific Process, which is ask a question, form a hypothesis, gather necessary materials, do a experiment, repeat with other trials, and then state your conclusion, stating whether the hypothesis held up or was disproven. Such research facilities, such like the Enrichment Center, normally deal with a variety of questions but all surrounding one key concept: like agriculture, reproduction/biological life, and, in this case, teleportation.

So, we can say, the scientists at Aperture Science were trying to find something out. Think of the very first "puzzle" we were introduced to, that Orange Portal appearing on the wall which we have to step through to get out of our little cage. I can imagine the original question for that one, was "How long will it take a normal human being, who is unuse to such portals, to willingly step through the foreign vortex." After having one individual go through it, they would jot down the time, or any other information, and then do the same for the next subject that went through and the next and the next, so on and so forth. All in the purpose of trying to find the answer to that specific question.

Furthermore, think of those huge drops that Chell always falls, where she's expected to shoot one portal at the ground and another someplace else so she can move on with the test. I can imagine that the first few who underwent that test probably didn't have those magical shock absorbers on their feet, and that part of the test was designed to see if human beings, under the restricted time to fall from one height to another (a few seconds) could think of using the ASHPD to successful save their own lives.

As such, each section of the Chambers were dealing with a aspect of the Portal Gun and the subject's responses with it to a particular circumstance. However, this does not mean that the subject is being "trained" to fight or use the Portal Gun in a real world setting. Always when one undergoes a treatment in a experiment, that treatment is meant for those individuals, they are merely to means by which the scientists will check to make sure the treatment is safe for the ones truly meant to have the treatment applied to them.

In context: The subjects were undergoing these tests to make sure that the ASHPD was useful in a real-life extreme setting for those who were truly intended to use it, which, perhaps, might have been a unit of American soldiers, like (I think) you hinted at.

If GLaDOS can alter the test's intent to be that of preparation for the completely different situation outside, then it would at least be beneficial in the way of possible information gathering. GLaDOS might not have eyes outside, but what if it has ears? I know there's no indication for this, and this is going on shaky speculation, but it does suggest that it doesn't have a complete understanding of what's going on outside. This seems to imply to me that it must at least have some sensory apparatus allowing it to get an idea, and if it isn't eyes, then it must be ears. Considering the method of communication of the Resistance, it's entirely possible GLaDOS caught bits of it, most likely relating to that of issues with transportation. Which would make the ASHPD invaluable, as we know their current method isn't completely reliable. That's very shaky though..

Okay, so from what I gather you believe that while the scientists were not preparing any of the subjects for some other usage in the outside world, GLaDOS herself wanted to use a specific, let's say pawn, to place out into the real world to be her eyes and ears and that has invaluable knowledge of how to use the Portal Gun in a extreme case.

However, there are several things wrong with this theory (outside that it doesn't have much factual foundation from the actual game) first, if it was GLaDOS intention to "free" Chell so that Chell could be her pawn in the outside world, then she went at it in the entirely wrong way. Chell has no intention to do GLaDOS will in the outside world whatsoever, and, even if GLaDOS finds a way of communicating with her, I highly doubt that Chell would listen to her, actually, she might just turn around and make sure GLaDOS "dies" once and for all. This might work if GLaDOS secretly hid some sort of camera or bug on Chell, so that she sees what happens to her while not actually communicating with her, but this too has no actual foundation from the story itself.

Also, I thought that GLaDOS wished to motivate Chell (through use of reverse phychology and completely unnecessary pressure) to come to her chamber and destroy her in order that GLaDOS might be in a better position in her backup. But this way does not ensure that Chell would make it to the outside world at all. When GLaDOS was destroyed, she blew up, when things blow up that tends to not be a good thing for those around it. If it weren't for that vortex appearing, (and how many times have you've ever seen a vortex appear because some computer was destroyed?) Chell wouldn't have made it outside at all. Chell probably would have died in the explosion.

Well, let's think of it in terms of a simple hypothetical situation. Say a human has an infinite capacity for knowledge, but is trapped within a small room with monitors linked to cameras to other rooms in the building. After a few years, the human has observed the monitors and seen everything there is to see about each room, and let's say he/she can release a rat to observe its interactions with whatever is in each room, and has observed every possible interaction with and without his/her direct intervention. You'd be sick of it, there would be nothing new to find, you would know everything about those rooms of the building which contained cameras, and every possible interaction a rat could have with the contents of those rooms with and without your intervention. So under those circumstances, that human would want to learn more about what was outside of those rooms, outside of the building. Slowly but surely, that human would likely devise a way to attach something to the rat to allow him/her to see outside, and release it from the building.

Ah! I see now "devise a way to attach something to the rat". So I was right! You believe GLaDOS bugged Chell!

Which means all my previous previous points all still stand, especially the one of how and when GLaDOS would have done such a thing. And yes, I see your point in the scenario. Most humans, heck, most genetic lifeforms, would probably have become bored with the Enrichment Center by now, but, as you can see, GLaDOS is no ordinary being. It's particularly the song Still Alive that makes me believe that GLaDOS is really content just wasting away in the Enrichment Center doing her tests. Specifically the lines:

"I’m doing science and I’m still alive. I feel FANTASTIC and I’m still alive.”

“Look at me still talking when there’s science to do. When I look out there it makes me GLAD I’m not you. I’ve got experiments to run. There is research to be done. On the people who are still alive”.

“Now these points of data make a beautiful line. And we’re out of beta. We’re releasing on time. So I’m GLaD I got burned. Think of all the things we learned. For the people who are still alive.”

All these lines have three things in common. That she’s still alive despite your actions. That she’s GlaD she’s alive and that she’s doing experiments. And that you’re in a worse position then she is because of your actions, while she feels fantastic that she’s alive and doing experiments. While it might all be sarcasm and lies, once again, you must admit that it’s peculiar that the sole thing she focuses on: outside of Chell was the experiments she done in the past (the whole, “You can’t cry over every mistake.”) and the experiments she’s doing and the experiments she’ll do in the future.

Anyhoo. Sorry about the crazily-long wait. Part two (part 3?) will be coming up soon!

 

[WriterforHire]

I wouldn't say it's so much due to caring about what's going on, but simply having a thirst that needs to be sated.

I'm GLaD naughty you mentioned this, it considering I wanted to mention this earlier.

Now, I'm rather sure that in a earlier "debate" I mentioned to you that there's no way to be sure that GLaDOS actually knows what's going on outside the Enrichment Center. However, when I said that, I did not mean that GLaDOS knew nothing of what's going on outside the Enrichment Center, but simply that she probably didn't know the full details and that even if she knew something we wouldn't be sure how she knew it or what she would want to do about that information.

Because on this matter, we do have factual backup from GLaDOS. This line:

"When I look out there it makes me GLaD I'm not you."

This in itself speaks volumes. It shows that she knows at least a bit of the chaos that's happening outside (whether it be the Combine or the Xen wildlife, who knows) and that GLaDOS wants nothing to do with it. Which makes it a doubly difficult for you, for it's the basis that GLaDOS knows nothing that she wishes to send out Chell to be her eyes so she can find out. But she "look(ed) out there" and saw what was going on and thought, "I think I prefer to stay inside." Which also further backed up with all her claims to be happy with what's happened, with Chell outside with a high chance of being gobbled up by a Antlion Gaurdian, while she's safe and sound in her facility, doing experiments, collecting data, and doing what she was meant to do.

I would have to agree, but my major issue with that possibility is that, as far as I know, there's been no shown cloning within the Half-Life universe.

Now, do not get confused. I do not support the cloning theory. I utterly despise that theory. I compare it to many of the other half-backed G - Man theories out there on the web. I was merely stating that, if it was true, it could possibly fill in these gaps. But I do not believe it is, mostly for the exact reason you do not.

Indeed, especially considering I'm not much of a devout anything in regards to religion.

Oh. You're a devout something. Whether it be a devout Athiest or Agnostic or even Deist. Everyone in the world comes to some sort of conclusion about these essencial things: the origin of life, the origin of the universe and man's place in both. If you're interested, maybe the two of us can debate on it. Such debates hold a tiny bit more signficance towards real life than ones about whether a fictional character did or did not want another fictional character to leave a equally fictional facility out alive, don't you think?

Perhaps, but I've read a few rumors about Portal 2 being a prequel, so it may be possible. Assuming the rumors come to fruition.

Which a great many of them do not, save for, apparently, the rumors about the BioShock 2 main enemy, much to my chargin. But to be honest, I'm really hoping that the next game will be a sequel. There's a heck of a lot of potential for having the next Portal game be set in the Half Life world where Zombies, Antlions and Combines roam rampant. But I think Valve should play it very carefully here. I go to Portal to play Portal and I go to Half Life to play Half Life.

(Firm No-Portal-Gun-for-Gordon believer! )

You're not the only one, I kept throwing grenades at the pipes to try and break them before I discovered the puzzle behind it which led to that idea.

You have G-mod? A lot of my friends do, but I don't have it. My computer wouldn't be able to handle it ( I played all the Half Life games and Portal on my 360) but that grenade idea does make it seem a bit more tempting now.

Ah, you're quite right, I completely missed it. I've already stated my possible why in regards to it. Though, I'm a tad confused as to what you were getting at with the natural thing; unless it was simply that not doing so would not make the manipulation directly apparent.

That's exactly what I meant. After all, when you cut off a apple from a tree, what do you expect to happen? For it to fall to the ground and land at your feet or for it to go soaring around the place before landing in a hard to reach area or even freezing in mid-air? If it was GLaDOS intention to be destroyed, and she had full control over where the orbs went, would it not be easier to have them all simply fall to the ground? Then it'll be as easy as Chell grabbing the orbs and then destroying them. It would look natural to her, as if GLaDOS hand wasn't directly involved.

Another fault in the "GLaDOS wanted to be destroyed theory." Look at the song Still Alive again. Read the lyrics alone, without the music, if you have to. Tell me, does GLaDOS like Chell? I'm 100% sure I would never say "While you're dieing I'll be still alive" and "When you're dead I'll be still alive" to anyone I like. Every mention that GLaDOS has about Chell is laced with a current of malice underneath. And, we can really be sure that she's "Being so sincere right now", because this song was not intended for Chell's ears. It's rather plain that this is similar to a note adressed to some family member that is written in someones diary/journal and that vents out against some flaw ro set of flaws. So why so much hatred? You can't say that this was misdirection, or reverse physcology, or sarcasm or lies, even a chronic liar tends to tell to truth or know the truth, they just have to liar to other people. If Chell did everything that GLaDOS wanted her to do, and was, in essence, her perfect little pawn, then why even spend so much time thinking about her, making up this song about her? Because, if there's nothing else this song can tell us, it's this: that the events of Portal were signficant to GLaDOS. It wasn't just the same old, same old.

Well, the first that pops into mind is that GLaDOS, at least seemingly, can't conveniently teleport her or transport her up to her chamber. Not only that, but I don't think there was even an elevator outside GLaDOS's chamber, so it couldn't simply redirect it to there. Think about it, we had to go about an extremely round about route to even get to it. If you told someone that they had to risk their life simply to blow something up or kill someone they didn't even know, do you think they would really be motivated to do so? Now, given, Chell does have the prospect of escape, but...She doesn't have a clue as to what's even going on outside. And provided that GLaDOS wasn't pushing her and threatening her, the Enrichment Center would seem like a pretty safe place if you remained in one area. I think that's the easiest reason as to why not, GLaDOS didn't know how Chell would react or if she would even feel motivated to progress, even with freedom as an option.

That's the same conclusion I made. That GLaDOS wouldn't be sure how Chell would react or what she would decide. I think GLaDOS is the type to like to have power firmly locked in her hands, the one who has both the capability and potential to calculate the outcome of any scenario and pick which one that is most likely to happen, all in order to futher her own desires. Which makes it rather hard for me to buy this whole: She secretly wanted to be destroyed and wanted to use Chell, or some other subject, as her eyes and ears out in the outside world. It has too many variables. Too many risks. Too many fuzzy areas. I think if that was GLaDOS' goal she would either find a more sure way to do it or not bother with it at all.

Oh, and a little nitpick that I can't believe I missed, that should be telekinetic..I tend to get telepathic and telekinetic mixed up sometimes.

Yes. That makes more sense. Telekinesis is the ability to move objects with your mind while telepathic is the ability to communicate with each other with your minds. Though this does raise up a intersting concept: Does GLaDOS have a mind? Because she needs one in order for this to be a "telekinetic tendril" in the strictest sense.

Traumatize a child with something, an old man, women, obese people, whatever, and see how they act towards them once they're an adult. Depending on what exactly traumatized them, their actions may be violent. This same scenario could apply to GLaDOS, it could have observed something traumatic that made it decide upon that course of action.

Ah. But this again supports the notion that there was some foul play or something equally heinous going on behind Aperture's closed doors (Ignoring the tests, of course) for save what besides some of the greatest felonies known to man (like murder, mass-murder, or rape) could cause the first computer with genetic life to decide immediately upon activation that all the humans (or at least some of them) in the facility had to die?

Indeed.

But what's weird about this is that many of the kids I know back in school hate debating. Hate arguing at all. I really don't get it. There's a difference between arguing civily, for the sake of "intellectually stimulating" yourself, and arguing for the sake of arguing and tearing others down. I don't think they see the difference, which makes it really hard to have any meangiful class discussions.

Well, whenever you find yourself needing another class to graduate or get a degree, you go with the lesser of the two evils. It was rather enlightening to see how influential journalism could be in the political playing field.

I can imagine. The media has a huge amount of influence over politics in general. Heck, they decide which topics of discussion actually reach the public's ears, and which ones end up on the wayside. I know, second-hand (my AP Gov teacher was a politician) that almost all of Congress is keeping a weary eye on the media, to make sure none of their scandals, or anything that could be considered a scandal, reaches the media and gets displayed to the entire nation. Talk about airing your dirty landry!

The funny part about that first rocket sentry is that, at least to me, it seemed as though it was an experimental model as it was between two observation rooms.

Ah! Now that you mention it. Yes, that's exactly what it was. There was two observation room son either side and a button you had to push to activate it, and then it targeted the closest "threat". Nice catch. Though, it does make you wonder how safe it was to work in that room, and how often the scientists had to replace those two windows.

 

[WriterforHire]

I know what you mean, it always makes me wonder what interpretation I may have come upon had they not injected its meaning prior to my reading of it.

Aye. But the nice thing is that I've just got off from spring break, which means no more school for a while at least; it gives me more time to do stuff like this.

I tend to read bits of my sentences aloud to see if they sound correct most of the time and if they fit the tone I'm going for. Aside from that, I just write what I'm thinking at the time, without thinking about my personal opinions or beliefs. I more or less reduce my mental state to a blank slate and let my thoughts flow out.

I should try that read aloud thing. I'm normally dead silent at my laptop. But I can so relate with that black slate feeling, that's how it's always with me, especially when I write my stories.

I would think so, especially given their entire design is rounded, and appears softer, nicer. Almost like something you'd see as a decorative item in an executive's office which could be activated if the executive is threatened. I think the only reason I noticed the eye was because of previous games I've played, such as Megaman Legends where the robots you fight have this trademark red eye.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I think there was a mechanical Pokemon that had a red eye also (I use to be obsessed with the games when I was younger) and I remember the movie The Day the Earth Stood Still which had a big metal robot-alien that had a glowing red eye also. I think it's actual quite a stigma in sci-fi novels/movies, to have robots with glowing red eyes.

As for the executive office thing...maybe, it certainly looks sleek enough, but how fast can you say "lawsuit"?

That's what I would think of. I don't see why there wouldn't be other incinerators, aside from the seeming lack of usage.

Well there's definitely other incinerators in the facility (the Companion Cube incinerator comes to mind, but that one was called a "Euthanizer") but are they all "Imergency Intelligence Incinerators"? Maybe. Really, more likely then not, this too was a game-mechanic, after all, what facility do you know that have massive lines of incinerators waiting around at every nook and cranny?

True.

You're very fond of one-word answers, aren't you? Hey. There's nothing wrong with that. If anything it balances out my desire to go on long rambles. Anyway, I think it would be best to lay off the whole "Foul Player" theory thing for a while, since, mostly, it's a rather shaky theory and I don't trust it so much due to that fanfiction I was tell you about. (Which I still haven't started yet! *grumbles*)

Which then makes you wonder why GLaDOS pushed Chell so far to the point of being willing to kill it. Perhaps it really did lose control when you destroyed the Morality Core, but if it didn't, why would it raise those defenses that would not only pressure Chell further to destroy it to stop the Neurotoxins, but provide the means with which to destroy it? It seems far too convenient, in my opinion.

Let's say, for a moment, that a man is standing before you with a gun. This man wants to kill you, already, because you attempted to kill him earlier. Because your life is in danger, you draw out your own gun, in order to defend yourself. However, what you do not know, is that your foe's gun only has one bullet, which he fires uselessly into a wall. But then, in the fray, he manages to get your gun and kills you with it. In the end, you gave him the motive (attempting to kill him earlier) and the means (the gun) without ever really wanting to die yourself.

I view the situation in GLaDOS chamber similarly. Chell came in already determined to destroy GLaDOS. GLaDOS brought up all the weapons she had in her disposal, the neurotoxin and the rocket sentry, in order to try to kill Chell, but Chell put two and two together and used her portals to redirect the rockets and destroy GLaDOS with it. In the end, GLaDOS didn't want to be destroyed, but a combination of ill luck and preprogramming made the events follow their course.

Ah, perhaps, but you wouldn't get to watch them suffer for a bit of time.

But that assumes that GLaDOS is a sadist or that the scientists in Aperture are, which I don't think either are true. They designed the test not because they liked watching humans suffer, but, for some reason, because they did not care if the subjects suffered at all, or even lived beyond the test.

I suppose, especially considering it wouldn't have the same moral issues as a human.

Which is the reason why I utterly unnerved about how quickly robotics is progressing. The Robotics Club at my school, which is a really small, private school, has already made two robots and I'm always amazed by what they can make them do, and these are only a couple highschool kids with some random metal parts! Yet they're making robots that would have stunned high-level academia fifty years ago. I think one of the worse possible things that could happen is for a miltary to mass-produce robots that can fight. Wars are bad enough when human beings are in them and ignore their own conscience, but a few units are robots? Scary stuff man.

Quite..Also, was that even proper Spanish?

Probably not. I used a online translator site. It was suppose to be: "Really? Is that the only limit?

Ah, yes, that I would have to agree on.

It's probably best that we leave it at that. Really, as it is, I already think we're digging a bit too much into the game. There's only so much you can logically conclude about the game before you start grasping at straws.

True. Although I did just realize that depending on what exactly GLaDOS is capable of, it may be able to see through its ears. By that, of course, I mean sonar. In fact..GLaDOS's dialogue may seem to indicate that in a way. "I know you're there. I can feel you here." However that may be stretching it just a bit.

A intersting idea, but yes, that's stretching it a bit. I think it's best to say that we know she "sees" us through the cameras. And that she stated that she knew where we were in the facility and could "feel you" there, but at the same time seemed confused about where you were, which might indicate sonar, and she somehow knows enough about the outside world to say that she's "GLaD I'm not you".

I would have to agree, it does seem rather farfetched that those studies occurred without government observance.

Many things, even scientific studies, happen outside the government observance, because in other groups a democratic setting is not established. But when it involves scientific experiments, such things normally involve smaller groups and much smaller labs, and, normally, they are found out - one way or another.

How ironic. A play is occurring around here just conveniently in production week as well. Strange, eh?

Not too strange, my school always does a fall and a spring play, and so do many other schools in our area. Though it would be cool indeed if the two of us lived closer to each other than we thought; cool and a bit creepy.

Honestly, I don't care for it either, but sometimes it's the only or the best conclusion I or one can come to.

Yep. Hence why I used it in the above incinerator discussion.

I hadn't considered their occupation timespan, that would certainly provide any civilization of their caliber plenty of time to get accustomed to the existing technology and adapt and advance it to their level.

Right. If there's one thing that the Combine know it's how to adapt conquered species and technologies that belong to that species, into their growing empire. In fact, not a single alien race we have seen so far have actually been the true "Combine". Heck for all we know the Advisors may not actually be the original species like some have claimed but instead could be for the humans like what the Nihlianth was for the Vortigaunts. Unless, that is, some comment was made by one of the developers that I don't know about, if so, please enlighten me. :E

Er..Again, I don't disagree with you, I see it as completely possible. It's a tad difficult for me to imagine, but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.

I'm less sure about this now because of the points you make below, but still what really convincts me to this is the fact we really don't see the Combines using computers at all. Yes, we see a lot of computer monitors, and yes, Breen talks into one to a Advisor, but does that mean that the Combine were in contact with computers prior to the Resonance Cascade? I don't know.

Calculations, inventories, simulations, detecting wormholes/portals with which to traverse through, instant worldwide/universal communication (something akin to the internet), and etc. I'm not sure what they would use to do those things otherwise, but I'm sure those are possible to achieve without computers.

The thing is, and this is just a personal belief, I don't really think the Combine worry about such nity-gritty things. I think they leave that mostly up to the individual inhabitants of the worlds they conquer. It seems the core concern the Combine has is in building up a large, diverse, army and the conquering of other worlds for the absorption of their natural resources. In Half Life we've seen human's work computers and transhuman forces of the Combine uses computers, but no Combines themselves. I think, personally, they would view such work as beneath them.

Under those circumstances I would have to agree.

And under other circumstances?

That's good to know. As to BioShock, the only qualm I've found thus far is that what occurs after that twist feels a tad bit anticlimactic, as though the game should have ended there.

I felt that way too, and I hated the escourt mission! But, from the sounds of it, most people do hate escourt missions in general so that's nothing too new.

Indeed.

Again with the one-word answers?

Anyway, I've always really liked debating, especially if those debates are civil, but not many other kids at my school like it, so it makes it rather hard to get into a good debate.

Ah, right, well I would have considered it as the government existing in the Half-Life universe anyway. It would seem a tad odd to consider the real-world government in the story rather than the story's own version of the government.

I had to make this point, because I've met someone who did equate the videogame to the real world. Well, not met, but I saw this video on youtube about this guy who was making this argument about how corrupt the US government was and how there was this big conspiracy by using the "evidence" of all the weird symbols at the end of Assassin's Creed. It was funny in a sad way, because the guy was really serious. But no way am I comparing you to him - but better to be safe than sorry, right?

Anyway. I finally finished it. I look forward to seeing your reply.

 

[Gmr Leon]

I'm glad. I've actually already gone through three of the performances, only one left, which is today. Though it's been a lot of fun, I'll be glad when it's finally over.

That's what one of the fellows involved in the play here told me, albeit after they had finished all the performances.

Ah. How could I have forgotten about those floating platforms? Yes. Those were very peculiar, however, it's the ASHPD that you constantly use throughout the game, and so is always in the backdrop of your mind, one way or another, and GLaDOS herself is extremely alluring; if she were not, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion, no would we?

By the way: I've never actually seen or heard of this "aerogel" stuff, but I'll take your word for it.

Quite true, however, whenever I think about something in particular, I can't keep it a single rope. It tends to fray, and go upon all over aspects of that something. It's why I'm never able to devise a complete, full-proof invention of any sort. Well, that and a lack of materials and a proper testing area. Same goes for strategies in RTS games, I can't devise an effective strategy due to all the variables spinning around in my head.

As to aerogel, it's incredible stuff. Very lightweight and fragile, but can hold much heavier objects. The wikipedia article is rather decent on it, at least the bit I glanced over.

Perhaps, though honestly I think it can be any of the three options, even the radical last one. As for the clone thing: I just want you to know that I don't believe that theory. I mentioned a part I thought provided a strong case for it, nothing more; nothing less.

Aye, as I stated myself, I didn't see it as being an extremely viable possibility.

The information on the site wasn't worded quite like how I worded it here. It was more like "in response to" or "with consideration of" or something of that sort, rather than to combat. But I think the word is suiting. They created GLaDOS to one up Black Mesa. So, they must have learned that Black Mesa was using teleportation technology somehow.

Whichever way the wording went, it implied reconnaissance or infiltration of some sort on the part of Aperture, in other words? It wouldn't surprise me, I'm sure many of the top corporations do that to the small upstarts that could usurp their position.

While this is quite right, the thing is that GLaDOS' emotions sounded far too genuine, her actions just a bit too extreme if it was all merely a ploy. If GLaDOS really wasn't trying to protect herself, out of a sense of self-preservation, then she must be one heck of an actress, I don't see why the scientists would even bother to give her such a capability; how does that fit in with her designated duties?

Perhaps, but a very easy counterpoint is the point of the cooking module. Why would the scientists even bother giving it that capability, and how does that fit with its designated duties? From what we can tell, it was meant to assist in conducting experiments, processing results, gathering knowledge. Where cooking comes into play there, aside from the cake part of the game, is a bit beyond me. Then again, why would an AI with the purpose of research have an Anger core? Curiosity makes the most sense, and Morality as well given the Neurotoxin Incident, but all the others just seem absurd.

Besides that, how does one determine the genuineness of an AI's "emotions" in the first place? I mean, sure, it has Genetic Lifeform attached to its name, but that's because it is very similar, and, I can't recall the exact words of the powerpoint, but "arguably alive", I think it was. I'm still not completely sure I'm comfortable with the idea of an AI construct "feeling" or having "emotions." If you'll notice, I've been very particular with using it, instead of she in regards to GLaDOS throughout this discussion.

However, the main issue I have with this is that they don't explain how or why. They simply say it does. Such is the case with many sci-fi things. They give a rough outline, throwing in familiar words and plausible sounding scenarios and expect the readers/viewers/gamers to eat it up. I can buy what Valve has given me, but I still want more.

The average gamer, however, is more concerned with shooting things and wreaking havoc than actual intellectual wonders like teleportation, so there is an excuse.

Well, given that that is true, and correct, I don't exactly find myself fond of those "explanations." While it is a fiction, and I can enjoy their interweaving of fact into their fiction, I find myself a tad bothered by their taking advantage of the player's ignorance regarding the facts. However, while they take advantage of it, it's only due to the player's ignorance that they are capable of doing so, and thus both are at fault in some regard. I agree, I would certainly like more; although it's probably a bit much to expect to find in-game.

After debating with you for some time, I've come to see the second one; GlaDOS wishing to be freed to go to her backup, as very plausible. But I still don't see the logic of the first point. Chell was, after all the 234th subject, why would GLaDOS care about releasing her, or preparing her, but not the others? Did GLaDOS want to "release" as you say, all the other subjects yet simply failed?

I wouldn't exactly say it was GLaDOS that failed, but the subjects that failed, personally. However, that was to some extent my idea that GLaDOS did want to release the others, but I would say that during the earlier portions of experimentation, nothing in particular was occurring outside to draw its curiosity. The whole idea of GLaDOS even caring still strikes me as bit of a fuzzy point.

Yes, I particularly think this is so, I just can't imagine that those emotions are fabricated, that, and the developer commentary node, which spoke of how the developers wanted GLaDOS' tone to sound scared and more openly threatening all make me think that these emotions were meant to be legitimate and not brushed aside as part of GLaDOS quirkiness or for some other alternative (oft-time farfetched) theory.

That is a good supportive argument. However, does not the ambiguity of many of GLaDOS's lines seem to undermine the developer's intent of conveying the emotions as legitimate?

Before I can answer this question, I have to ask you this: Why are experiments done in the first place?

My first thoughts after this quickly went to your next point, but also to gather knowledge, and to prove hypotheses.

As such, each section of the Chambers were dealing with a aspect of the Portal Gun and the subject's responses with it to a particular circumstance. However, this does not mean that the subject is being "trained" to fight or use the Portal Gun in a real world setting. Always when one undergoes a treatment in a experiment, that treatment is meant for those individuals, they are merely to means by which the scientists will check to make sure the treatment is safe for the ones truly meant to have the treatment applied to them.

In context: The subjects were undergoing these tests to make sure that the ASHPD was useful in a real-life extreme setting for those who were truly intended to use it, which, perhaps, might have been a unit of American soldiers, like (I think) you hinted at.

It doesn't necessarily have to be American soldiers, but a militaristic use probably was what I was initially hinting at. However, extracting my thoughts from combat usages, I could see its more conventional uses for the window washers of skyscrapers, and other height oriented jobs that could be dangerous.

Okay, so from what I gather you believe that while the scientists were not preparing any of the subjects for some other usage in the outside world, GLaDOS herself wanted to use a specific, let's say pawn, to place out into the real world to be her eyes and ears and that has invaluable knowledge of how to use the Portal Gun in a extreme case.

At its most basic level, yes, that would be my idea.

This might work if GLaDOS secretly hid some sort of camera or bug on Chell, so that she sees what happens to her while not actually communicating with her, but this too has no actual foundation from the story itself.

No actual foundation..? While we can't say whether or not it was GLaDOS that conducted the advanced knee replacement involved with the springs on Chell's legs, it would at least suggest that they had done something to Chell while she was unconscious. This could imply other possibilities of bugs or cameras being planted, if it was indeed GLaDOS. Not a firm basis, I'll concede that, but I see it as a possibility.

Also, I thought that GLaDOS wished to motivate Chell (through use of reverse psychology and completely unnecessary pressure) to come to her chamber and destroy her in order that GLaDOS might be in a better position in her backup. But this way does not ensure that Chell would make it to the outside world at all. When GLaDOS was destroyed, she blew up, when things blow up that tends to not be a good thing for those around it. If it weren't for that vortex appearing, (and how many times have you ever seen a vortex appear because some computer was destroyed?) Chell wouldn't have made it outside at all. Chell probably would have died in the explosion.

True, and I'm just being facetious here, but I've also never seen an AI construct similar to GLaDOS, so I can't say what would happen if you destroyed it. However, in this scenario, not only is it not ensured that Chell will survive, but that GLaDOS will reboot either. As you pointed out yourself, GLaDOS's backup could be in an even worse position.

GLaDOS, for all we know, could have possibly from that strange bond with Chell you pointed out, have had a "mind"set of if I can't leave, she can't leave either, so we'll "die" together. Now, given, I'm not being completely serious here either, and in fact, this part of my response is a bit of a non-serious sandwich, with the only serious part being the sentence that begins with however.

Which means all my previous previous points all still stand, especially the one of how and when GLaDOS would have done such a thing. And yes, I see your point in the scenario. Most humans, heck, most genetic lifeforms, would probably have become bored with the Enrichment Center by now, but, as you can see, GLaDOS is no ordinary being. It's particularly the song Still Alive that makes me believe that GLaDOS is really content just wasting away in the Enrichment Center doing her tests. Specifically the lines:

"I’m doing science and I’m still alive. I feel FANTASTIC and I’m still alive.”

“Look at me still talking when there’s science to do. When I look out there it makes me GLAD I’m not you. I’ve got experiments to run. There is research to be done. On the people who are still alive”.

“Now these points of data make a beautiful line. And we’re out of beta. We’re releasing on time. So I’m GLaD I got burned. Think of all the things we learned. For the people who are still alive.”

All these lines have three things in common. That she’s still alive despite your actions. That she’s GlaD she’s alive and that she’s doing experiments. And that you’re in a worse position then she is because of your actions, while she feels fantastic that she’s alive and doing experiments. While it might all be sarcasm and lies, once again, you must admit that it’s peculiar that the sole thing she focuses on: outside of Chell was the experiments she done in the past (the whole, “You can’t cry over every mistake.”) and the experiments she’s doing and the experiments she’ll do in the future.

I've already provided a prime moment in which GLaDOS could have bugged "the rat", the advanced knee replacement. At least, if GLaDOS conducted this procedure itself, which is what makes it such a shaky proposition. Science is a broad field, think of the implications of what it could mean by that. It could support my proposition as being a new experiment for GLaDOS, a new form of research. Really, I imagine GLaDOS was examining its own destruction sequence, and its effects on the surrounding environment, including the possible sonar process to further examine the environment. Science is a large field, and those lines can imply very much, lies or sarcasm aside.

 

[Gmr Leon]

Because on this matter, we do have factual backup from GLaDOS. This line:

"When I look out there it makes me GLaD I'm not you."

This in itself speaks volumes. It shows that she knows at least a bit of the chaos that's happening outside (whether it be the Combine or the Xen wildlife, who knows) and that GLaDOS wants nothing to do with it. Which makes it a doubly difficult for you, for it's the basis that GLaDOS knows nothing that she wishes to send out Chell to be her eyes so she can find out. But she "look(ed) out there" and saw what was going on and thought, "I think I prefer to stay inside." Which also further backed up with all her claims to be happy with what's happened, with Chell outside with a high chance of being gobbled up by a Antlion Gaurdian, while she's safe and sound in her facility, doing experiments, collecting data, and doing what she was meant to do.

When chaos ensues in an empire, does the emperor want to have anything to do with it? Not often, thus they send out their armies to control the chaos and quell whatever is causing it. I see the situation much in the same way with GLaDOS being the empress, and Chell being its army. GLaDOS, of course, doesn't want anything to do with it personally, but I suspect it would be all the willing to send someone or something else in its stead.

Oh. You're a devout something. Whether it be a devout Athiest or Agnostic or even Deist. Everyone in the world comes to some sort of conclusion about these essential things: the origin of life, the origin of the universe and man's place in both. If you're interested, maybe the two of us can debate on it. Such debates hold a tiny bit more significance towards real life than ones about whether a fictional character did or did not want another fictional character to leave a equally fictional facility out alive, don't you think?

Perhaps, but neither seem to get anywhere in particular, if you know what I mean.

You have G-mod? A lot of my friends do, but I don't have it. My computer wouldn't be able to handle it (I played all the Half Life games and Portal on my 360) but that grenade idea does make it seem a bit more tempting now.

No, although my computer could possibly run it. That example was just from a mod another person, who now works at Valve, made, called Minerva: Metastasis.

That's exactly what I meant. After all, when you cut off an apple from a tree, what do you expect to happen? For it to fall to the ground and land at your feet or for it to go soaring around the place before landing in a hard to reach area or even freezing in mid-air? If it was GLaDOS intention to be destroyed, and she had full control over where the orbs went, would it not be easier to have them all simply fall to the ground? Then it'll be as easy as Chell grabbing the orbs and then destroying them. It would look natural to her, as if GLaDOS hand wasn't directly involved.

Well, as I've proposed, the final bit of pressure to make sure Chell remembered everything she had undergone throughout the facility. If GLaDOS was preparing Chell, it would only display failure if at that prime moment Chell happened to forget everything.

Another fault in the "GLaDOS wanted to be destroyed theory." Look at the song Still Alive again. Read the lyrics alone, without the music, if you have to. Tell me, does GLaDOS like Chell? I'm 100% sure I would never say "While you're dying I'll be still alive" and "When you're dead I'll be still alive" to anyone I like. Every mention that GLaDOS has about Chell is laced with a current of malice underneath. And, we can really be sure that she's "Being so sincere right now", because this song was not intended for Chell's ears. It's rather plain that this is similar to a note adressed to some family member that is written in someones diary/journal and that vents out against some flaw ro set of flaws. So why so much hatred? You can't say that this was misdirection, or reverse psychology, or sarcasm or lies, even a chronic liar tends to tell to truth or know the truth, they just have to liar to other people. If Chell did everything that GLaDOS wanted her to do, and was, in essence, her perfect little pawn, then why even spend so much time thinking about her, making up this song about her? Because, if there's nothing else this song can tell us, it's this: that the events of Portal were signficant to GLaDOS. It wasn't just the same old, same old.

Assuming GLaDOS was being rebuilt at the time of the creation of the song, it couldn't conduct any experiments yet, so it would be the only alternative. After all, the song seems to imply it being in the reconstruction process. Besides that, one doesn't necessarily have to like their pawns, especially if they had to manipulate them to kill themselves in an, apparently extremely painful, manner.

That's the same conclusion I made. That GLaDOS wouldn't be sure how Chell would react or what she would decide. I think GLaDOS is the type to like to have power firmly locked in her hands, the one who has both the capability and potential to calculate the outcome of any scenario and pick which one that is most likely to happen, all in order to further her own desires. Which makes it rather hard for me to buy this whole: She secretly wanted to be destroyed and wanted to use Chell, or some other subject, as her eyes and ears out in the outside world. It has too many variables. Too many risks. Too many fuzzy areas. I think if that was GLaDOS' goal she would either find a more sure way to do it or not bother with it at all.

Provided that GLaDOS is an AI construct, that would seem to be its processet, I suppose. However, the formation of self-awareness seems to me, at least, to display a fraying of the processes, much like the fraying of my focus I mentioned earlier.

Yes. That makes more sense. Telekinesis is the ability to move objects with your mind while telepathic is the ability to communicate with each other with your minds. Though this does raise up an interesting concept: Does GLaDOS have a mind? Because she needs one in order for this to be a "telekinetic tendril" in the strictest sense.

That's what I'm still a bit uncertain of, and what also makes me uncertain of its "emotions." After all, one must have some semblance of a mind to have emotions..Right? Although, I am the same sort of person that believes the primitive animals that we find so below us have minds, so..

Ah. But this again supports the notion that there was some foul play or something equally heinous going on behind Aperture's closed doors (Ignoring the tests, of course) for save what besides some of the greatest felonies known to man (like murder, mass-murder, or rape) could cause the first computer with genetic life to decide immediately upon activation that all the humans (or at least some of them) in the facility had to die?

I don't see why not, you've even noted your suspicions of this, and look at Black Mesa. That place is chock full of dark, behind-closed-doors actions. After all, they had apparently captured several Xenian lifeforms prior to the Resonance Cascade.

But what's weird about this is that many of the kids I know back in school hate debating. Hate arguing at all. I really don't get it. There's a difference between arguing civilly, for the sake of "intellectually stimulating" yourself, and arguing for the sake of arguing and tearing others down. I don't think they see the difference, which makes it really hard to have any meaningful class discussions.

And if it's not tearing others down, it's to impose their point upon the other as the all-time truth. They're far too black-and-white, not enough gray.

I can imagine. The media has a huge amount of influence over politics in general. Heck, they decide which topics of discussion actually reach the public's ears, and which ones end up on the wayside. I know, second-hand (my AP Gov teacher was a politician) that almost all of Congress is keeping a weary eye on the media, to make sure none of their scandals, or anything that could be considered a scandal, reaches the media and gets displayed to the entire nation. Talk about airing your dirty laundry!

That sounds about right..It's a tad bit sickening, really. The government is only in power as long as their grip on the media, and thus the populace, holds.

Ah! Now that you mention it. Yes, that's exactly what it was. There were two observation rooms on either side and a button you had to push to activate it, and then it targeted the closest "threat". Nice catch. Though, it does make you wonder how safe it was to work in that room, and how often the scientists had to replace those two windows.

Quite..Although, I don't recall there being a bit one had to press to activate it. From what I recall, it simply activated on its own, hence my earlier point suggesting GLaDOS could see through the sentry's "eyes."

 

[Gmr Leon]

Aye. But the nice thing is that I've just got off from spring break, which means no more school for a while at least; it gives me more time to do stuff like this.

Lucky you. Although, I'd make sure to catch up on my reading and not just focus on these interactions. Despite the fact that I tend to to do the opposite whenever I have the initial part as my intent.

I should try that read aloud thing. I'm normally dead silent at my laptop. But I can so relate with that black slate feeling, that's how it's always with me, especially when I write my stories.

I always find it a tad bit amusing, actually. Some times when I read it aloud, I'll sound normal, other times I think I sound arrogant. However, that's a good thing, it helps me figure out which ways people could take a comment.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I think there was a mechanical Pokemon that had a red eye also (I use to be obsessed with the games when I was younger) and I remember the movie The Day the Earth Stood Still which had a big metal robot-alien that had a glowing red eye also. I think it's actual quite a stigma in sci-fi novels/movies, to have robots with glowing red eyes.

As for the executive office thing...maybe, it certainly looks sleek enough, but how fast can you say "lawsuit"?

If they have one of those sentries in their office, chances are they're already not on the completely legal side of the law.

Well there's definitely other incinerators in the facility (the Companion Cube incinerator comes to mind, but that one was called a "Euthanizer") but are they all "Emergency Intelligence Incinerators"? Maybe. Really, more likely then not, this too was a game-mechanic, after all, what facility do you know that have massive lines of incinerators waiting around at every nook and cranny?

Smelting plants? Foundries? Forges? Still though, I see your point. Although, the Enrichment Center is part production plant, as it produces the Weighted Storage Cubes and Sentries.

You're very fond of one-word answers, aren't you? Hey. There's nothing wrong with that. If anything it balances out my desire to go on long rambles. Anyway, I think it would be best to lay off the whole "Foul Player" theory thing for a while, since, mostly, it's a rather shaky theory and I don't trust it so much due to that fanfiction I was tell you about. (Which I still haven't started yet! *grumbles*)

Not quite, as I mentioned in my PM to you a few days ago, I did so for the sake of brevity, thinking the lengthiness of these responses was bothering you.

I view the situation in GLaDOS chamber similarly. Chell came in already determined to destroy GLaDOS. GLaDOS brought up all the weapons she had in her disposal, the neurotoxin and the rocket sentry, in order to try to kill Chell, but Chell put two and two together and used her portals to redirect the rockets and destroy GLaDOS with it. In the end, GLaDOS didn't want to be destroyed, but a combination of ill luck and preprogramming made the events follow their course.

I suppose so, but that doesn't really seem to give much credit to GLaDOS, now does it? It makes it appear as though GLaDOS is simply a slave to its programming, despite the fact that it's self-awareness would suggest otherwise.

But that assumes that GLaDOS is a sadist or that the scientists in Aperture are, which I don't think either are true. They designed the test not because they liked watching humans suffer, but, for some reason, because they did not care if the subjects suffered at all, or even lived beyond the test.

I don't think so either, but I do think it would be a bit more satisfactory. What I find interesting is the Aperture Science motto, which is stated in Still Alive, "We do what we must, because we can."

Which is the reason why I utterly unnerved about how quickly robotics is progressing. The Robotics Club at my school, which is a really small, private school, has already made two robots and I'm always amazed by what they can make them do, and these are only a couple highschool kids with some random metal parts! Yet they're making robots that would have stunned high-level academia fifty years ago. I think one of the worse possible things that could happen is for a miltary to mass-produce robots that can fight. Wars are bad enough when human beings are in them and ignore their own conscience, but a few units are robots? Scary stuff man.

Heh, I'm not sure I see the future of wars lying in robotics. Too expensive, too many resources, and so on. I see virtual war as being the new format. Less resources utilized, possibly less expensive. It would be the most bizarre form of war ever, but it would be less costly.

Probably not. I used a online translator site. It was suppose to be: "Really? Is that the only limit?

Ah, yeah, then it almost certainly isn't. That's one of the first things they ran us through when I went through a class on a foreign language, the faultiness of translators.

It's probably best that we leave it at that. Really, as it is, I already think we're digging a bit too much into the game. There's only so much you can logically conclude about the game before you start grasping at straws.

I would have to agree again, as I've been thinking we've been grasping at straws for awhile now.

Many things, even scientific studies, happen outside the government observance, because in other groups a democratic setting is not established. But when it involves scientific experiments, such things normally involve smaller groups and much smaller labs, and, normally, they are found out - one way or another.

That is certainly true. However, they're not always bad, which the tone of this part seemed to hint at with being "found out."

Not too strange, my school always does a fall and a spring play, and so do many other schools in our area. Though it would be cool indeed if the two of us lived closer to each other than we thought; cool and a bit creepy.

Hey, the world's becoming a smaller place every day. In regards to the plays, though, the schools here usually don't as they don't receive enough funding to do so. Most of the funds tend to be focused on the brutish, unintellectual sports that they so enjoy.

Right. If there's one thing that the Combine know it's how to adapt conquered species and technologies that belong to that species, into their growing empire. In fact, not a single alien race we have seen so far have actually been the true "Combine". Heck for all we know the Advisors may not actually be the original species like some have claimed but instead could be for the humans like what the Nihlianth was for the Vortigaunts. Unless, that is, some comment was made by one of the developers that I don't know about, if so, please enlighten me. :E

As far as I know, that's still the general consensus. Valve is rather tightlipped, after all.

I'm less sure about this now because of the points you make below, but still what really convinces me to this is the fact we really don't see the Combines using computers at all. Yes, we see a lot of computer monitors, and yes, Breen talks into one to a Advisor, but does that mean that the Combine were in contact with computers prior to the Resonance Cascade? I don't know.

Stretching it a bit, but they may interact with computers with the little mechanical appendages they have on them. Or any cybernetics existing within them that utilize a computer. However, there's nothing to show that, and, as such, I'm the same position of I don't know as you.

The thing is, and this is just a personal belief, I don't really think the Combine worry about such nity-gritty things. I think they leave that mostly up to the individual inhabitants of the worlds they conquer. It seems the core concern the Combine has is in building up a large, diverse, army and the conquering of other worlds for the absorption of their natural resources. In Half Life we've seen human's work computers and transhuman forces of the Combine uses computers, but no Combine themselves. I think, personally, they would view such work as beneath them.

It really wouldn't surprise me if that was the case, but I would also see them as, at the very least, knowing how to utilize them if necessary.

And under other circumstances?

I would have to respectfully disagree, of course.

I felt that way too, and I hated the escort mission! But, from the sounds of it, most people do hate escort missions in general so that's nothing too new.

Oh joy, I haven't reached that point yet, but I imagine I'm going to have a splendid time with that.

Anyway, I've always really liked debating, especially if those debates are civil, but not many other kids at my school like it, so it makes it rather hard to get into a good debate.

Normally I'm rather antisocial, keeping to myself, so I don't know if many of the people around here are into debating. Even if they were, I doubt I would enjoy it, as they would be too adamant in their views, as it would likely be a debate regarding religion.

I had to make this point, because I've met someone who did equate the videogame to the real world. Well, not met, but I saw this video on youtube about this guy who was making this argument about how corrupt the US government was and how there was this big conspiracy by using the "evidence" of all the weird symbols at the end of Assassin's Creed. It was funny in a sad way, because the guy was really serious. But no way am I comparing you to him - but better to be safe than sorry, right?

Definitely. I think, given the much more realistic setting of Assassin's Creed, and the historical elements they utilized, it's a bit more understandable. However, someone doing that with the Half-Life universe? I don't see it occurring, unless it's a few decades in the future.