About HL2 copy protection

[Fearlezz]

Any new info about it? Will we have to log on to the internet every time before we play, even the singleplayer? What if I go to vacation and take my laptop with me? Will I be unable to play it? And what do you think, how long will it take until the game is cracked (for offline play atleast)? :cheese:

 

[Shuzer]

Go buy CZ to see what it'll be like.

Basically, you can install it without Steam, won't need an internet connection or Steam to run.
You can install it to Steam, where you can run it in offline mode OR you can run it while you're online.

 

[Vegeta897]

That's good. Even though it doesn't really matter to me directly, good news all the same.

 

[Munro]

I think because Steam will be fully integrated with Half-Life 2 you will need to first install it with a CD key and then register your CD key online through Steam to register it. You'll still be able to play offline though. We'll just have to wait and see really to see what they do with it.

 

[Spiffae]

I think because Steam will be fully integrated with Half-Life 2 you will need to first install it with a CD key and then register your CD key online through Steam to register it. You'll still be able to play offline though. We'll just have to wait and see really to see what they do with it.

I agree... I don't think it will be like CZ, where you can do a non-steam install. HL2 is Steam's flagship product.

 

[Epsi]

I hope they do think about this and allow at least the offline mode of Steam to recognise the HL2 CD in the drive, and enable playing of HL2 without a connection.

I guess they'll also have to enable Steam working offline without having an account at all as well then.

Hmm, still, I hope that they'll do this, because otherwise it's going to be *really* painful to install HL2, and then have to convert the whole lot into a Steam cache to play it online.

 

[Varsity]

Hmm, still, I hope that they'll do this, because otherwise it's going to be *really* painful to install HL2, and then have to convert the whole lot into a Steam cache to play it online.

What are you trying to say? It will be installed as a Steam cache whether you want to use it online or off.

 

[WhiteBoy]

What if you don't have a internet connection like some hill billys?

 

[Epsi]

I'm hoping it'll be a Steam cache. I dread to think how long the conversion from regular install to Steam install would take.

Valve could ship with HL2 a version of Steam which is able to:

a) Work without ever connecting to the internet
b) recognise the HL2 CD and use that to prove you own the game, and allow you to play.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

I would say some kind of initial online authentication would be an essential part of HL2's copy protection. After this point you won't have to log into steam to play it again, you'll be able to play the single player offline.

 

[Shuzer]

I would say some kind of initial online authentication would be an essential part of HL2's copy protection. After this point you won't have to log into steam to play it again, you'll be able to play the single player offline.

Yeah, product activation seems like a good plan

 

[Epsi]

I guess they could always do something like activation by phone, or post, maybe, but I get the feeling this won't happen. Having purely online activation is not something I see as being commonplace for a few years. Some people don't have internet connections, or would want to install HL2 onto disconnected computers.

 

[Varsity]

I can't think of many gamers with decent enough PCs to play HL2 not having some form of internet connection.

 

[Epsi]

Heh, some people dislike Steam enough as it is, they'd raise hell if they had to connect to the 'net even once to play HL2.

Hmm, thinking about it though, there are going to be two versions of HL2, the SP only, and the full, SP, MP + Mods version. I guess there's no reason why they couldn't make the Full version the one requiring Steam, and the SP version the one that doesn't. That would sort out the whiners... Although you'd still get a few people who would whinge about not being able to play LAN games or something.

 

[jabberwock95]

Hmmm. Interesting ideas, I like the sound of product activation. I don't really mind whether it needs a connection or not, as long as single player runs smoothly and continously without huge loading times.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

We're talking about copy protection, preventing people who haven't legally purchased the game from playing it at all.

Releasing a single player only offline version is the equivalent of handing the game on a plate to the warez community. Once you integrate online authentication their job of warezing and cracking becomes slightly more complicated.

 

[Epsi]

Well, what Steam does at the moment is conceptually very similar to something like Windows Activation.

You login to Steam, and the system sends you a Steam Ticket.

If you go offline, Steam can continue to use this ticket to verify you have permission to access the games.

With Windows, something exactly the same happens, you're sent a ticket, which Windows then uses to ensure you're allowed to use it.

Significant changes to your system hardware can confuse both systems, and invalidate your ticket. I'm pretty sure I actually saw this happen with Steam, but I can't be entirely sure.

Anyways, even if you have the game installed into Steam, if you've got the whole lot (either from the CD or downloaded) it doesn't download any more while you're playing, so it wouldn't lengthen the loading times.

 

[Epsi]

We're talking about copy protection, preventing people who haven't legally purchased the game from playing it at all.

Releasing a single player only offline version is the equivalent of handing the game on a plate to the warez community. Once you integrate online authentication their job of warezing and cracking becomes slightly more complicated.

That's very true. But at the end of the day, you have to find the best comprimise between user convienience and security. Unless the game phones home to check it's legit every time you play you can never be sure it is. Even then, "the client is in the hands of the enemy" and can be hacked. Sad, but true. You have to find the comprimise.

Look at the Steam offline mode, that has the fatal flaw that there's nothing to stop you logging in, going offline, then logging in at another computer, going offline, etc. etc. Sure, it's tricky, but you can do it. Incidentally, this is why I think they'll never be anything like a -offline switch for Steam. Forces people to shut off their connection every time they want to play, which helps cut down on this kind of abuse.

 

[jabberwock95]

I really hope it's at least quite a while before HL2 is cracked and up for download. If I had my way anyone who played HL2 illegally would have their computer blown up! (i really am a hypocrite).

 

[Koldfire]

For valves sake, I had better be able to take HL2 out of the box, play single player and multiplayer and be able to play mods whithout ever seeing any mention of steam. I hope adaware and spybot release a patch to clean steam out.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Koldfire, If you believe that HL2 multiplay will run without steam you are sadly mistaken. Unless you plan to connect to every server by IP. And even then I aint sure.



Oh and one other thing.



STEAM IS NOT SPYWARE OR ANYTHING LIKE SPYWARE. THAT WAS A STUPID RUMOUR THAT WAS STARTED BY STEAM HATTERS.


Steam is a great application. Its had more than its fair share of problems for sure but it works great for most people now. Steam is the future. Valves future. Don't expect them to abandon it.



Meh! I have had enough of these stupid anti steam claims.....l

 

[Shuzer]

STEAM IS NOT SPYWARE OR ANYTHING LIKE SPYWARE. THAT WAS A STUPID RUMOUR THAT WAS STARTED BY STEAM HATTERS.

More interestingly, I do believe the rumor was made up by one of the larger cheat production groups.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Supprise supprise eh!


I think they are getting scared by VAC to be honest. Since the last VAC update there have been an unpresidented amount of new legitimate bans. Its great. I love to see cheaters suffer. Because cheaters SUCK.

 

[jabberwock95]

I found an old interview with Doug Lombardi that i'd forgotten about, he briefly mentions anti-cheat and anti-warez when talking about online play with steam.

"You're not talking about multiplayer modes as such, but can you tell us something of your plans for anti-cheat measures in Half-Life 2 online?

Lombardi: Steam.

So how will that work?

Lombardi: You're constantly connected, and we can constantly touch your bits. Steam allows us to do an arbitrary number of updates per day/per hour/per minute, so if your code base is constantly changing then it's hard to write a hack for that code base.

So essentially, anyone playing Half-Life 2 online will have to do so through Steam?

Lombardi: Right now, when you go online, you make a couple of handshakes to make sure you're an authorised player who's actually paid for something, whether it be Half-Life or Counter-Strike or any one of our games. And then you're being pointed at a server list, etc.

So once you're online and making those handshakes, it's pretty easy for us to do those things in the background."


So, the impression I get is that steam will be absolutely essential for online play. If steam is how multiplayer is coordinated, it's unlikely you could take steam out of the equation without completely altering online play.

 

[Shuzer]

Supprise supprise eh!


I think they are getting scared by VAC to be honest. Since the last VAC update there have been an unpresidented amount of new legitimate bans. Its great. I love to see cheaters suffer. Because cheaters SUCK.

lol, yeah, some guy on steampowered.com openly admitted he was banned for cheating, then said VALVe stole from him by banning his key for 5 years. He made about 5 threads (each which got locked, final was locked and he was banned) threatening to sue VALVe

 

[jabberwock95]

For valves sake, I had better be able to take HL2 out of the box, play single player and multiplayer and be able to play mods whithout ever seeing any mention of steam. I hope adaware and spybot release a patch to clean steam out.

BTW, I have used both adaware and spybot with steam installed, and neither made any objections to it. I very much doubt steam is spyware.

 

[Shuzer]

BTW, I have used both adaware and spybot with steam installed, and neither made any objections to it. I very much doubt steam is spyware.

It isn't. It also doesn't help that Feedbag makes up bogus crappy claims that Steam takes away your privacy, serves up "spyware" (or, as most people call it, preloaded CZ :|) and "popups" (an ad for CZ, O NOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111~!!)

 

[jabberwock95]

It isn't. It also doesn't help that Feedbag makes up bogus crappy claims that Steam takes away your privacy, serves up "spyware" (or, as most people call it, preloaded CZ :|) and "popups" (an ad for CZ, O NOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111~!!)

I think people are too paranoid about spyware anyway. If I told anyone I had kazaa on my computer, they would probably say: "NOoOoOo!!11!! It is teh sPyWaRe!!11!", but surprisingly I survived with kazaa on my comp for over a year, with no noticable effects.

 

[iamaelephant]

I know handful of people who will buy HL2 but dont have internet connections. I think you will be able to play SP without connecting to the internet at all.

 

[Shuzer]

I think people are too paranoid about spyware anyway. If I told anyone I had kazaa on my computer, they would probably say: "NOoOoOo!!11!! It is teh sPyWaRe!!11!", but surprisingly I survived with kazaa on my comp for over a year, with no noticable effects.

kazaa, or kazaa lite? kazaa had some nasty spyware back in the day

 

[jabberwock95]

kazaa, or kazaa lite? kazaa had some nasty spyware back in the day

Kazaa Original (no additives or flavourings). I have recently switched to kazaa lite, and i've found it to be better all round. I never really noticed any effects from the spyware in kazaa though.

 

[Varsity]

Lombardi: You're constantly connected, and we can constantly touch your bits.

Oh dear god.



Before anyone asks, the spyware claim was based on a flaw in the FAT32 file system: when Steam reserves the space for a .gcf a FAT32 system doesn't wipe what was in the area before. Anything recently deleted that just so happens to have been on that disc sector, including spyware, stays as an normal 'echo' except instead of being in an unused area it is right where the gcf is meant to be. It was noticed and posted about. It's not a problem as such, as the files are deleted anyway and as soon as the data is downloaded the echoes are overwritten, it just looks suspicious if you don't know what's going on.

What's the proper term for 'ecoes'?

 

[ShaithEatery]

kazaa, or kazaa lite? kazaa had some nasty spyware back in the day

kceasy is better than any version of kazaa PERIOD!!!

 

[Epsi]

Better term for echoes? Hmm, echoes has the nice poetic touch, I really don't think it could be bettered. If I was going to be technical, I might call it orphaned data, or something.

Anyways, all the people that are paranoid about Steam, or complain about how it has "stolen" their CD-Key, or how it has trashed HL online, they all seem to me like the same sort of horrible, paranoid people that say they won't buy Longhorn because it has DRM, or supports "Trusted Computing".

Drives me nuts. DRM isn't some evil monster that's going to come and take away your freedom. Hell, Steam is partly DRM. It manages my digital right to play the Half-Life family of games, from any computer I like, by logging in with my Steam account. Brilliant.

Hmm, this post was somewhat incoherent...

 

[iamaelephant]

I've never used Steam before, but noticed someone above said something about pop up ads. If I pay for HL2 and I get a single pop up ad I'm going to be very pissed off. Nothing annoys me more than unsolicited advertising.

 

[HunterSeeker]

I have never got pop ups while playing on steam. If you do get popups and dosent have your browser open, consider scanning for adware.

 

[Reven]

I have never got pop ups while playing on steam. If you do get popups and dosent have your browser open, consider scanning for adware.

i think they mean the CZ buy thing pop up

 

[Varsity]

Nothing annoys me more than unsolicited advertising.

I guess that limits your internet browsing a bit, huh? How it works now is that there is one 'announcement' popup when a game is avaliable for preload, and another when it is released and you don't get the second if you've preordered. It's perfectly reasonable.

 

[Rupertvdb]

Yeah for christs sakes, God forbid Valve should try and sell you anything.

 

[Mountain Man]

I'm hoping for a standard CD installation with a connection to Steam being entirely at the user's discretion.