Another Insurgent Attack

[bliink]

But the name was given to them after the 1998 bombings, it isnt like Bush was the one to invent the name. Its not like Clinton was going to go to Bin Laden and ask him what his terror group should be called, I'm sure the name was picked for some reason.

Al-Qaeda = "The Base" I believe

 

[seinfeldrules]

Al-Qaeda = "The Base" I believe

.Huh?.

 

[bliink]

.Huh?.

People were asking about what it meant yeah?

 

[CptStern]

But the name was given to them after the 1998 bombings, it isnt like Bush was the one to invent the name. Its not like Clinton was going to go to Bin Laden and ask him what his terror group should be called, I'm sure the name was picked for some reason.

Al-Qaeda (Arabic: القاعدة, "the foundation" or "the base") is the name given to a worldwide network of militant Islamist organizations.

source


The name al-Qaida, or "the Base," dates back to 1988 and reportedly originated from the term used to refer to one of bin Laden's guesthouses, where the Mujahideen that came to fight in Afghanistan were required to register. These registration records later provided bin Laden with extensive contacts to Islamist fighters around the world

source


it's a US creation

 

[KoreBolteR]

Sorry buddy, but I'm gonna step in here and take the 'anti coalition' shoes here. Not because I hate our troops, I don't, I've got a friend out there fighting right now - it's just from experience if I try and justify and find meaning for these attacks I'm labelled anti-coaltion, so I may as well take thestand here to make this something of a debate..

the meaning is, every attack they do.. they dont get the blame! ...americans and allies do, by non other than anti-coalition people. who want non other than the terrorists to win over there.

It's sick, don't get me wrong, I'm a liberal pussy and hate war and killing, I just avoid beig idiotic enough to label the terrorst/insurgants/evil doers as 'pure evil' who only want to disrupt peace and kill people for the hell of it..

alright, i admit, there are a FEW, and little few, of them who do hate america for what theyve done, but dont kill thier own iraqi countrymen, who may also dislike the west just to prove they hate america.

Right; listen carefully. The west have totally f**ked that country and it's people up many times over. Look at the old conflicts of the 80's and 90's, look at the UN sanctions and bombings that resulted in half a million dead Irais innocents, look at the laws they're already imposing on the Iraqis since the invasion - it is not wonder a group of people not only do not trust the coalition, but despise them. This is hatred neither you nor I can fathom, this is from loss of friends and family, constraint of belief, all through a network of lies and double crossing. The coalition are to some of these people what OBL is to the west, just multiplied several times..

you are making it sound like all iraqis hate the west, when its only a little percentage of them. and this little percentage of them that hate the west so bad, blow themselves up ina crowd of innocent civilians, EVEN women and children.

now think of it, what do you think the people with thier relatives killed by the terrorists are gonna think?
imo, the majority of people are sick of it all, and choose the path america and iraqi government had put out for them.

with no terrorist organisations in iraq, the people will be free, americans will LEAVE, which they all would want because there would be no 'civilian killers' there. after that point i think, iraq will be able to support itself.

At the moment Iraq is being held at Gunpoint, which makes iraqis scared to express a little amount of happiness for what americans have done for them, and thats where the media comes in, and twist it all up, which really pisses me off.

When people start siding with the enemy they become the enemy. Whether we believe the new Iraqi government to be 'good' (if such a term exists) or not is irrelevent, these group of extremists don't, and they have good cause to. Imagine if OBL came along to your home town and installed his own government there; how likely are you to trust them, especially after his bombing camaign earlier killed some of your friends, and your cousin was arrested and tortured with no charge..

but theres no need for osama to come here and install a government, because Tony Blair, isnt gassing and torturing his own people, and we dont have mass terrorist organisations here...

plus we are a democratic 'free' nation, and we have a voice.
which iraqis under saddam didnt have. Iraqis were like prisoners in thier own country, and IMO still are sadly. but not to saddam, but too the terrorists. Sadly they have now killed that judge that trialed saddams first case yesterday..

Until we start some diplomatic speech with these people, which thankfully is begginning to happen, these attacks will continue, just as they would if OBL tried starting a government up in your town.

Here's hoping they sort things out over there. :cheers:

Labelling them as brainwashed, motivationless, evil doers will not help the situation.

yes but im saying, if there were people who were having a diplomatic speech with the coalition, they immediatly get targeted by the terrorists, which makes them scared to think for themselves, its so fu**ed up imo. :|

yup and i hope they sort it out too m8 :cheers:
talk to ya later :E

 

[CptStern]

prior to desert storm Iraqis had no reason to hate the US ...2 wars and 12 years of sanctions gave them a reason

you dont ever forget the lose of a child if you're a parent ..watch f-911, that man who throws a lifeless 2-3 year old on to a pile of corpses after a US bombing, the fury of the grandmother who just witnesses the deaths of her relatives ...you just dont forget (much less forgive) things like that

 

[seinfeldrules]

it's a US creation

Sure, the US used a name to define his organization. I dont see a problem in that at all.

you dont ever forget the lose of a child if you're a parent

And I'm sure that is why they are happy Saddam is gone.

 

[kmack]

12 Iraqi policemen were killed today by an insurgent suicide bomber, 39 were injured

 

[seinfeldrules]

12 Iraqi policemen were killed today by an insurgent suicide bomber, 39 were injured

Dont you see, these terrorists are only distancing themselves from the Iraqi people. Soon, there will be no support left whatsoever.

 

[kmack]

Dont you see, these terrorists are only distancing themselves from the Iraqi people. Soon, there will be no support left whatsoever.

How many innocent Iraqi's will die before that time?

 

[seinfeldrules]

How many innocent Iraqi's will die before that time?

If you are signing up for the police force at this point in time, you know it is a life or death struggle. They are taking matters into their own hands. It would be no different than signing up for the US military.

 

[kmack]

If you are signing up for the police force at this point in time, you know it is a life or death struggle. They are taking matters into their own hands. It would be no different than signing up for the US military.

And what about the women and children they murder? or the people who just wanted to vote? What about the people shopping at a market across from a hospital that were killed or maimed in the attack this thread addresses? How many of them before the insurgency dies out, and what makes you think it will, this is a war that has been going on for THOUSANDS of years, if you think the US trapsing in is going to stop it, take a minute and think.

 

[seinfeldrules]

And what about the women and children they murder? or the people who just wanted to vote? What about the people shopping at a market across from a hospital that were killed or maimed in the attack this thread addresses? How many of them before the insurgency dies out, and what makes you think it will, this is a war that has been going on for THOUSANDS of years, if you think the US trapsing in is going to stop it, take a minute and think.

This is exactly why the terrorists are evil. Thanks for finally pointing it out. Were you not arguing against this earlier? Claiming they only hit valid targets.

 

[kmack]

This is exactly why the terrorists are evil. Thanks for finally pointing it out. Were you not arguing against this earlier? Claiming they only hit valid targets.

For them, anyone who is not Shi'ite is a valid target, again, you are not seeing things from their viewpoint. To us these people are innocent, we see innocents dying, the Iraqi insurgents see enemies of God dying.

 

[seinfeldrules]

For them, anyone who is not Shi'ite is a valid target, again, you are not seeing things from their viewpoint. To us these people are innocent, we see innocents dying, the Iraqi insurgents see enemies of God dying.

They are targeting women and children (as you admitted). There is no excuse.

 

[kmack]

They are targeting women and children (as you admitted). There is no excuse.

They believe that their GOD chose them. They believe in a much higher cause than us, they believe GOD wants them to kill his enemies and that is very powerful to such an ancient religious group.

 

[seinfeldrules]

They believe that their GOD chose them. They believe in a much higher cause than us, they believe GOD wants them to kill his enemies and that is very powerful to such an ancient religious group.

I kill 1000 people because God told me to. Are you saying I'm not a terrorist?

 

[kmack]

I kill 1000 people because God told me to. Are you saying I'm not a terrorist?

You are a terrorist to people like me and you. But if you were a muslim fundamentalist you would be a holy warrior of God fighting for his greater glory and insuring yourself a place in Heaven.

Do you see what I am trying to say?

 

[seinfeldrules]

You are a terrorist to people like me and you. But if you were a muslim fundamentalist you would be a holy warrior of God fighting for his greater glory and insuring yourself a place in Heaven.

Do you see what I am trying to say?

Terrorism: The calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear.

They can cite God all they want. They are still terrorists, I cant believe you are attempting to justify this behavior.

 

[kmack]

Terrorism: The calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear.

They can cite God all they want. They are still terrorists, I cant believe you are attempting to justify this behavior.

for f*cks sake man, this entire thread is about seeing things from their point of view. Do you think that these people see themselves as terrorists? because they obviously do not, they consider themselves warriors of God, we consider them terrorist. I can't believe you are not getting this.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

2 wars and 12 years of sanctions gave them a reason

2 Wars that they initiated -- 6 if you count their active participation in they attempt to eradicate a country about the size of Rhode Island (Israel).

... and 12 years of sanctions they did'nt obey; would they have a choice in the matter to even hate Saddam for being stubbourn?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Do you think that these people see themselves as terrorists? because they obviously do not, they consider themselves warriors of God, we consider them terrorist. I can't believe you are not getting this.

Hey, I guess I'll go make a "Understanding the Crusaders" thread, and preach this same arguement to you!

We get their perspectives -- they get are's; but we're enemies right now. Not exactly are the circumstances here today, the best for shaking hands and making up.

 

[seinfeldrules]

for f*cks sake man, this entire thread is about seeing things from their point of view. Do you think that these people see themselves as terrorists? because they obviously do not, they consider themselves warriors of God, we consider them terrorist. I can't believe you are not getting this.

Actually, this thread is about suicide bombers.

Again, they can consider themselves whatever they want. They are terrorists. If you are insane enough to believe that going out and blowing up innocents will help you get close to God, you dont deserve the dignity of being called an insurgent. You are a terrorist.

Hey, I guess I'll go make a "Understanding the Crusaders" thread, and preach this same arguement to you!

Exactly. Personal justification really doesnt matter.

 

[kmack]

Actually, this thread is about suicide bombers.

Again, they can consider themselves whatever they want. They are terrorists. If you are insane enough to believe that going out and blowing up innocents will help you get close to God, you dont deserve the dignity of being called an insurgent. You are a terrorist.



Exactly. Personal justification really doesnt matter.

this is futile, my first post is about looking at things from the insurgents viewpoint. Every one of your posts has called them terrorists, wince these people obviously don't think they are terrorists you completely failed at comprehending this thread. I didn't think it was that hard to look at a topic from a different viewpoint, but you have proved me wrong.

Please, stop posting in here, admin, close her down.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Every one of your posts has called them terrorists,

Because they are. Even refer to the dictionary definition I provided. Hell, I dont know where else to turn. Maybe you can provide me with a dictionary entitled 'Osama's Dictionary' instead of 'Webster's Dictionary'.

wince these people obviously don't think they are terrorists

Should any reasonable person care? Do you think Hitler should be called a madman? He obviously thought he was doing the right thing.

 

[kmack]

Because they are. Even refer to the dictionary definition I provided. Hell, I dont know where else to turn. Maybe you can provide me with a dictionary entitled 'Osama's Dictionary' instead of 'Webster's Dictionary'.

There you go again "they" this thread was supposed to put you in their shoes. You continue to see things from YOUR viewpoint not theirs, just stop, you are embarrassing your self, please just stop typing here (you are having plenty of fun draggin my other threads off topic) and let the admins close it.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Maybe you can provide me with a dictionary entitled 'Osama's Dictionary' instead of 'Webster's Dictionary'.

Ouch. Good point.

He obviously thought he was doing the right thing.

Seinfeld, get ready for:

OMFG LIEK WE WERE"NT TALKING TEH ABOUT HITLER GET ON TOPIC OMFG U GUYS ARE LIEK GRRR I TEH HATE YOU MAYBE DEH THOUGHT THEY WERE DOING RIGHT THING OMFG!!11

... but you knew this already. Just, getting the barrels warmed for ya.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

You continue to see things from YOUR viewpoint not theirs, just stop, you are embarrassing your self, please just stop typing here

Right, like you speak for him. Funny man, funny, funny man.

How about you stop making threads, were you get pissy because no one shares the same interests or points just like your own? I mean, hey, you did it ...

 

[kmack]

There you go again "they" this thread was supposed to put you in their shoes. You continue to see things from YOUR viewpoint not theirs, just stop, you are embarrassing your self, please just stop typing here (you are having plenty of fun draggin my other threads off topic) and let the admins close it.

please let the thread die.

 

[kmack]

Right, like you speak for him. Funny man, funny, funny man.

How about you stop making threads, were you get pissy because no one shares the same interests or points just like your own? I mean, hey, you did it ...

please don't post here if you dont read my original post.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

please let the thread die.

Admin, can we close it here? One person is bleeding his heart out for death -- can, can ... can we just give it to him? Like, in every thread he does this in?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

please don't post here if you dont read my original post.

Please, keep it to PM's.

 

[bliink]

I'm not going to close it now, I might just delete the posts I think are off topic and warn the writers of those posts.
Get on topic.

 

[kmack]

Admin, can we close it here? One person is bleeding his heart out for death -- can, can ... can we just give it to him? Like, in every thread he does this in?

please keep it to pm, personally attack me there if you must. It's just frustrating when someone jumps in and doesnt understand my post.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Do you think Hitler should be called a madman? He obviously thought he was doing the right thing.

That seems to be the gist of where you want this thread. I mean hell, the first post was asking whether or not the war was justified. Now you want me to look at it in the perspective of a terrorist.

 

[kmack]

Ok, thank's Bliink. I would like to take this chance to reiterate the purpose of this thread.

Are we getting ourselves into a long and drawn out guerrilla war?
Another concern is a civil war, will Shi'ites lash out against the insurgents, if so, how do we support a Shi'ite controlled government and quell their attacks at the same time, this is speculation of course, but a very real threat.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

I just told you to keep it to PM's, so thanks for taking my advice. I mean, you really did just steal it.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

I would like anyone who feels like posting to take a chance and put yourselves in the shoes of the insurgents fighting in Iraq. What reasons do you have (as an Iraqi insurgent) for fighting the U.S.?

Oh, and start another thread. This topic has nothing to do with your attempts to again, take it off topic.

 

[kmack]

I just told you to keep it to PM's, so thanks for taking my advice. I mean, you really did just steal it.

what relevance does this have to my thread, did you read what bliink said?

 

[seinfeldrules]

Another concern is a civil war, will Shi'ites lash out against the insurgents, if so, how do we support a Shi'ite controlled government and quell their attacks at the same time, this is speculation of course, but a very real threat.

Yes, the Shi'ites will do everything they can to eliminate the terrorist threat.