Anyone mind if I explain what HDR is?

Cypher19

Newbie
Joined
Sep 21, 2003
Messages
448
Reaction score
0
Since the recent update focuses on HDR is, I think it'd be nice to explain exactly what it is.

To start off, HDR is an acronym for "High dynamic range".

Now, the benefits of HDR: Normally, lighting is computed with a minimum value of 0.0, and a maximum of 1.0, which is multiplied by whatever the colour of the surface or texture the light is affecting (and don't forget that when you multiply some variable x by 1, you get x). This only allows for, in comparison to the real world, a very small range of values. HDR rendering expands that range GREATLY, enabling values from 0.0 to some high number (I don't know exactly, but it's big enough). So you can have surfaces that, with a strong nearby light, become over-lit.

HDR rendering by itself is not much though, but there are some post-processing shader effects that allow HDR to really strut its stuff. The big ones that people like are light blooms, glares, and changing exposures. A light bloom is often seen as light bleeding into other parts of the image, and glares (e.g. lens flares or lens anomalies) help accentuate them. Changing exposures (e.g. pupils dilating under bright light) also enhance the realism. For examples of those three, I suggest you look at these screenshots:
High exposure (note the light bloom)
medium exposure
Low exposure
Example of a glare

What I imagine will be shown in the coming level is the effects I've outlined above, using HDR rendering.

FAQ:
Q: I thought blooms and stuff WERE HDR rendering though?
A: NO!! Like I said above, they are just shader effects. In fact, those shaders can be done without HDR rendering, and still get decent results. Are they as good as they COULD be? No, so HDR enhances the image quality of the effects by a lot. I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH THAT THOSE EFFECTS ARE NOT PART OF, NOR ARE THEY INTEGRAL TO HDR RENDERING, THEY ARE JUST ENHANCED BY IT!!!

Q: Isn't HDR in the game already? I see glares in HL2 every now and then.
A: The "glares" already in HL2 are cheap simulations, such as placing a particle in a certain area that fades out when the player gets near them. There are also a couple situations late in the game (esp. City 17) where windows looking out onto the street are overbrightened until you get close to them. That's also part of the simulation. Both examples would have to be hand done, and are not automatic.

Q: Are there any examples of HDR rendering and usage of post process effects that I can see for myself?
A: I feel that this is the number one thing you can check out: http://www.daionet.gr.jp/~masa/rthdribl/ It's absolutely beautiful, and despite the simplistic shapes, it all looks photorealistic (especially if you have a high-end card like an X800 or 6800, where you can have very high settings, and still retain a very smooth framerate)

Q: What other practical applications of HDR rendering are there?
A: I can't name many off of the top of my head, but I know that one application is shadow maps, since the pixel shader code for those require the high precision that a HDR texture can provide.

Q: How big of a performance hit will it be? My video card is brought to its knees by that RTHDRIBL program!!
A: It will be big, but that program is actually far more intense than is necessary at this point in time (especially with the motion blur). A good example of the performance "fall" was when Far Cry's v1.3 patch was released. 6800U's that were running the game at 1600x1200, 4xAA/8xAF and almost 60fps were shot down to 1024x768, No AA and 30fps. Part of that is due to the extra processing required for the high precision numbers, part of that is due to the post-processing effects (each of which run fairly complex pixel shaders across the ENTIRE screen).

Edit: Added the performance question.
 
Ultimape said:
my 9600xt renders it well at 640/480, a good 30fps
Same here. But at 1024x768 I get about 10-15 fps. ;(
 
Cypher19 said:
Q: How big of a performance hit will it be? My video card is brought to its knees by that RTHDRIBL program!!
A: It will be big, but that program is actually far more intense than is necessary at this point in time (especially with the motion blur). A good example of the performance "fall" was when Far Cry's v1.3 patch was released. 6800U's that were running the game at 1600x1200, 4xAA/8xAF and almost 60fps were shot down to 1024x768, No AA and 30fps. Part of that is due to the extra processing required for the high precision numbers, part of that is due to the post-processing effects (each of which run fairly complex pixel shaders across the ENTIRE screen).

Edit: Added the performance question.

Farcry's FP blending was also highly unoptimized. Must take that into consideration..

:)
 
I was wondering....how do they make the bloom effects exactly? :O
 
i got about 20-21 FPS on it with my X800 Pro at 1280x1024... at 640x480 i get 78-80... i cant wait to see this effect in game
 
turn off depth of field to bump up speed, and multisampiling. I find it looks alot better with DOF, it blurs and such
 
Very interesting!
Since i'm most interested in using the Source engine for machinima, which allows me to render movies frame by frame, the real-time rendering isn't as important.
Does anyone know how this will play out when making maps or movies? If it's automatic, what exactly does the designer need to consider?
 
if you bring the multisampling down to 2x, at 800x600, its stays around 40fps on a 9600xt, you need to tweak the lense effects and bloom, but it still looks amazing, balls to having to buy a x800, 14x multisampling does look better, but its visually marginal. and can definately be sacrificed for the sake of spending ridiculous amounts of money on rip off cards.
 
That program is amazing! Assures me why I bought my 6800 GT :p
 
Kirkburn said:
That program is amazing! Assures me why I bought my 6800 GT :p

Hear hear. I can't wait to see what they pull in the actual game. When the Lost Coast level comes out, I'll be all over that like stink on rice.
 
Question: how will cubemaps look with HDR? I doubt the cubemaps will be saved into a HDRI when you build them? Or isn't that necessary in this case?
 
Guys, how are you getting 30 fps with the skull at 640x480 with 9600XTs?

I have a GeForce 5900 Ultra and I get 8 fps with the skull no matter what I adjust...
 
Well it doesnt even work for me its just white. I can see the information FPS ect. but nothing else :frown:
 
Goo3y said:
Well it doesnt even work for me its just white. I can see the information FPS ect. but nothing else :frown:

You have to adjust exposure, Goo3y. It did the same thing for me.

Oh and I'm calling BS there, TheAmazingRando. Nice try. Try posting specs before you talk nonsense.
 
i got the skull at around 16fps at 1024x668(9800 all-in-wonder pro)..

yeah, that program is amazing and really shows us what great things are in store for gamers in the years to come..(or will these new levels be a huge leap from the ones we already have?)
 
30-50 fps with no DOF, 4x multisampling, 1024x768. 80-90 with no dof or multisampling.
 
I tried ajusting the exposure, i held left and right down for ages and all i can see is whats in the screenshot. Whats else shall i try?

poopoo4hi.png
 
Goo3y: In the menu, turn off multisampling, set glare to none, set the material to marble, and turn off DoF blur.

I think the GFFX's low shader precision has come to bite you in the ass.
 
I've had this program for a long while now. Anyone care to explain how to get the skull demo up? Also, the multisampling option isn't motion blur, its basically Anti-Aliasing.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it.
 
Dumb Dude said:
I've had this program for a long while now. Anyone care to explain how to get the skull demo up? Also, the multisampling option isn't motion blur, its basically Anti-Aliasing.

File->Open Model->skullocc.pvi
 
Oh cool, thanks. I was a bit late with my edit but thanks anyways.
 
Dumb Dude: If you open up the demo with the spinning spheres, turn motion blur to 16x, and set the resolution of the window to something stupidly high (1600x1200 or 2048x1536?) so that you get a low framerate, you'll see the motion blur. (or rather, expose how it basically works)

For a more subtle version, turn on 16x multisampling, and lower the rest of the settings so that you get ~60fps. If you notice zero IQ difference between 0x and 16x (hint: use the numbers 0 and 7 to quickly switch) get some glasses.

Edit: Btw, if anyone can find a way to make the balls spin faster without whipping the camera around really fast, PLEASE let me know ASAP!!
 
Oh ok, I see it now its basically both motion blur and AA. Dumb me. Oh well, I always have it at 4x anyways.
 
Anyone mind if I explain what HDR is?

Yes, I mind! How dare you post an informative thread?! Just who do you think that you are?!

Seriously, thanks a bunch. I had no clue about any of that shit, and now I feel smart like I can impress my other geek friends with that knowledge. :)
 
Jerorfigan said:
Guys, how are you getting 30 fps with the skull at 640x480 with 9600XTs?

I have a GeForce 5900 Ultra and I get 8 fps with the skull no matter what I adjust...
Because you have an FX, which sadly does not perform shaders very well. That is why HL2 ran in DX8 instead of DX9 if you had an FX card.
 
I noticed in HL2, there's some parts where you're coming out of a tunnel, and the tunnel entrance has a similar bleeding light effect. But if you turn your head left and right, you'll see the effect dissapear, showing its just a sprite. But now we can loads of "real" effects melting our video cards into impure lumps of metal! Yay!
 
Cypher19 said:
Goo3y: In the menu, turn off multisampling, set glare to none, set the material to marble, and turn off DoF blur.

I think the GFFX's low shader precision has come to bite you in the ass.

Thanks for the help dude i got it working. Its pretty neat too.
 
You can make the depth of field on this prog do veeery strange things .... prob best not to try it full screen as it'll likely make ur head hurt :)
Even tho it hasn't been updated in over a year it's amazing!
 
antialising does not equal multisample... however, when the object is not moving, it might as well be antialising the it.

they used multisampling in grandtheftautoIII, it is what gives that affter effect, althought rather surrealish in how they implemented it there.

is there anyway to speed up the rate that it autoajusts the exposure? I want to make it more akin to real life eyes.
 
lol, the guy who runs that site where you download the .exe of the floating marbles must be freaking out. His little science site that gets like 10 hits a day, suddenly escelated to like 500,000 in a week, when suddenly valve said, HDR.
 
xcellerate said:
lol, the guy who runs that site where you download the .exe of the floating marbles must be freaking out. His little science site that gets like 10 hits a day, suddenly escelated to like 500,000 in a week, when suddenly valve said, HDR.

His site's actually getting less than average hits....
 
With the skull demo running at 1280x1024 with 4X sampling I get about 34fps :thumbs: :p

With it ato 640x480 I get about 115fps :thumbs:

Dell 8300
P4 3.2ghz
1gig of ram
200gig HD
X800 Pro Flashed to X800XT PE :thumbs:

Thats right, it's a Dell. But its MY Dell :p
 
Back
Top