Be Proud...

Manc

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I was sent this write up in an email and I was so impressed that I thought that I would share it with you all.
If this offends anyone then I'm sorry... I dont care!!!!

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on National Television.


"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia : one the Australian law and another Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said. Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want, to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said.



Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.

Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians." "However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia ." "However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand." "This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle."

"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom"



"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society .. Learn the language!"

"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."

"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us."

"If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.

"This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'." "If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."

Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, BRITISH and those of others blighted in the world by mass illigal or otherwise.. citizens will find the backbone to start speaking and voicing the same truths!
 
idiot rambling about more idiots ...oh and since when is Australia a "christian country"?
 
Bullshit, he preaches Secualism on moment, "Christian values" the next.
 
Christianity is the lesser evil these days.
 
Well - he still is right, don't come to a country and complain that its not like home...

And the Christian point was about Christain values.
 
Well - he still is right, don't come to a country and complain that its not like home...

And the Christian point was about Christain values.
Rubbish point. Democracy is all about things being run how you want them to be.
 
idiot rambling about more idiots ...oh and since when is Australia a "christian country"?

it is. as much as turkey, eygypt or iran are muslim...non muslims must observe the culture etc.. i think the problem with western (christian) countries is that we are far too tolerant. so much so that we do not even recognise that when the people who are begging for help are more offensive and intolerant than even the nazis themselves.

we have gone to far...i want my fkn country back from the left wing extremists.. and pc queers..
 
it is. as much as turkey, eygypt or iran are muslim...non muslims must observe the culture etc.. i think the problem with western (christian) countries is that we are far too tolerant. so much so that we do not even recognise that when the people who are begging for help are more offensive and intolerant than even the nazis themselves.

so let me get this straight, you want the west to invade these countries and put them to the sword just so foreigners dont have observe their customs?

you religious fanatics should be put into a giant arena to fight to the death ..the victors will be subsequently machine gunned as a preventative measure once the dust settles


we have gone to far...i want my fkn country back from the left wing extremists.. and pc queers..

intolerance and hate? that's not very christian of you ..which is absolutely no surprise as you idiots tend to pick and choose what you want to follow ...I should stone you for being ignorant ..in fact the whole community should stone you ...I'm not christian and dont have to follow that "he who is without sin, cast the first stone" nonsense

/me picks up 20lb rock
 
Bullshit, he preaches Secualism on moment, "Christian values" the next.
Yeah that was BS.

Looks like the Australian govt is playing on xenophobic fears in order to garner support.

However, although Howard's speech was inflammatory nonsense, Costello's statement was instead inflammatory ranting which nevertheless had a point. Those who bleat about Sharia law should not find it surprising that they get a bad response in countries where they are basically preaching that the national laws are secondary to their own personal made-up book of rules. I'm surprised proponents of sharia law don't get criticised more often. If you are living in a sovereign country, following your own set of religious rules which only incidentally matches those of the state, and claiming that you would like to see your own rules instituted as state law, are you not living in fundamental conflict with that country?

It's an interesting topic which reveals a lot about the position of many muslims. It raises the question - can Islam be seen as a race/nationality (similar to Judaism) or is it a personal religious belief which can be kept separate from the way a country is run (like Christianity, hypothetically)? British law treats Islam as the latter from what I understand, hence parliament seeing the need to try and draw up the Religious Hatred bill a while back. I think most muslims, however, would like to see themselves treated as a racial group, what with their concepts of the ummah, sharia law, and church and state being indivisible (not to mention cries of 'racism' when Islam is criticised).

At the same time, there is not enough unity of message within Islam to make that viable. There are muslims who say Sharia law is absolute, muslims who say that political Islam doesn't exist, muslims who say islam is a religion of peace, muslims who say "Death to those who say Islam isn't a religion of peace!", muslims who advocate death for apostasy, muslims who don't...and so forth. The problem with this is that in the current political climate, muslims in the west are being called upon to disown any branches of the faith which embrace radical views. This is practially a prerequisite for them if they want to be taken seriously in political discourse. However, even muslims who do this tend to still refer to themselves as part of a billion-strong ummah of islam, including themselves as part of the same family as all those muslims who hold differing beliefs to theirs, or even muslims who they might in another statement discount as non-muslims due to their radical views.

It seems to me that you can't try to claim all the privileges of a racial group if you lack the coherence or consistency of identity to justify it. You certainly can't, for example, have anyone acknowledge your stupid ****ing religious law as being as important as that of the state.

I think this is the root of the problem described in Costello's (cynical and inflammatory) comments.
 
So what he's saying is his god runs the country, not yours...
 
oh btw jews and christians are opposed to banning sharia law ..at least in canada they were ...although silently. See since the government would strike down sharia law because religiously based arbitration in family legal matters is against the charter of rights and freedoms of canada meaning the canadian government taking a hard stance against sharia law meant their own family law arbitration groups would also be outlawed ...funny how they only criticise sharia law when it wasnt threatening their own practices ..****ing hypocrites
 
This is why I feel reluctant to join the Hitchens et al Muslim bashing bandwagon, you'd be on the same side as racist idiots like manc.
 
This is why I feel reluctant to join the Hitchens et al Muslim bashing bandwagon, you'd be on the same side as racist idiots like manc.

I just wanted to slip in here and say something. Muslim bashing is not racist. Neither is Christian bashing or Jewish bashing. If you're so worried about unabashedly criticizing Muslims because you're afraid of being lumped up along with racist people who might do the same thing, you need to have stronger convictions. Just as you shouldn't be worried about being lumped up along with the racist skinhead/kkk members simply because you're critical of Israel and Judaism or being lumped up with fundamentalist Muslim extremists and the racism they also exhibit simply because you're critical of Christianity.

If you don't like the practices of a group... be critical of them, and don't hold back simply because worse people than yourself might share the same views.
 
I just wanted to slip in here and say something. Muslim bashing is not racist. Neither is Christian bashing or Jewish bashing. If you're so worried about unabashedly criticizing Muslims because you're afraid of being lumped up along with racist people who might do the same thing, you need to have stronger convictions. Just as you shouldn't be worried about being lumped up along with the racist skinhead/kkk members simply because you're critical of Israel and Judaism or being lumped up with fundamentalist Muslim extremists and the racism they also exhibit simply because you're critical of Christianity.

If you don't like the practices of a group... be critical of them, and don't hold back simply because worse people than yourself might share the same views.

That's not it though. I know the posters in question type, they whine on about evil Islam whilst singing the praise of Christianity, then they talk about the loony left and 'insane immigration' and 'POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD!!!'. But it's just all a front and really they just "hate pakis".

Which is why I still don't know where to stand on the whole Danish cartoon thing. I think there was alot mre too it that Islam not wanting to be parodied which is what the right would have us believe. In the UK asians/Muslims get alot of shit from the government, police and rightwing idiots, so I think when they protest they channel it through Islam, but they have legitimate greivances. So when people critisise their fundamental beleifs I believe they are missing the point.
 
/me waves at cowman

where ya been? see, it's tough to stay away for long stretches of time isnt it?
 
/me waves at cowman

where ya been? see, it's tough to stay away for long stretches of time isnt it?

No, not really... I did it well enough easily for all these months. I just happened to start reading them again when I posted for help in the hardware thread... and today I was winding down from a long night and getting ready to go to bed(yes, at noon!)

And hello to you too.
 
Which is why I still don't know where to stand on the whole Danish cartoon thing. I think there was alot mre too it that Islam not wanting to be parodied which is what the right would have us believe. In the UK asians/Muslims get alot of shit from the government, police and rightwing idiots, so I think when they protest they channel it through Islam, but they have legitimate greivances. So when people critisise their fundamental beleifs I believe they are missing the point.

How can you not know where to stand on that?

Muslims rioted, vandalized, and killed over a cartoon that was a personal expression of the artist. Those that didn't mostly sat by silently, refused to condemn the violent reactions, and even went some ways rationalize them.

That's madness. The Muslim community worldwide may have some legitimate grievances, but events like what had transpired at that time did nothing but lend further credence to the global perception of Islam being unreasonable, violent, and in fundamental conflict with the rest of the civilized world. If you're a Muslim trying to combat that perception, it's safe to say that burning buildings and issuing fatwas are counter-productive to your goals. But it seems many want to have it both ways. They want to be treated with respect and kindness while still being able to spew vitriol and push for Islamic law.

I can't believe people still think there was some moral grey area about this. Naive notions of political correctness are exactly what have hampered serious, honest discussion about Islam and its extremist components. The right wing of politics may be overzealous in its attacks on the Muslim community, and many of such critics are fascists. But the left has yet to grow a pair on the matter entirely.
 
Political correctness is bullshit. Wake up to the ****ing sunshine - Islam is an incredibly dangerous thing. It is a warrior religion, and that is why it so difficult to follow in 21st century earth.
 
Which is why I still don't know where to stand on the whole Danish cartoon thing. I think there was alot mre too it that Islam not wanting to be parodied which is what the right would have us believe. In the UK asians/Muslims get alot of shit from the government, police and rightwing idiots, so I think when they protest they channel it through Islam, but they have legitimate greivances. So when people critisise their fundamental beleifs I believe they are missing the point.

As far as the cartoons go, they would have gone over quite easily if it wasn't for the people this thread tells to "clear out". If you're interested, there's a backdrop to this story. The cartoons weren't just printed and then discovered by the Arabs. Resident Imams, hated by the public, made fake drawings and went on a "tour" to show them how bad Danes are. They are:
Ahmed Akkari - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Akkari
And Abu Laban, who, praise Allah, is now dead from cancer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Laban

Of course the latter one has been replaced with a just-as-evil equivalent. Anyway, that's the backdrop on that one.

Oh, Atomic Piggy, you obviously have not heard of the Klingon, or in their language "Tlhingan".
 
How can you not know where to stand on that?

Muslims rioted, vandalized, and killed over a cartoon that was a personal expression of the artist. Those that didn't mostly sat by silently, refused to condemn the violent reactions, and even went some ways rationalize them.

That's madness. The Muslim community worldwide may have some legitimate grievances, but events like what had transpired at that time did nothing but lend further credence to the global perception of Islam being unreasonable, violent, and in fundamental conflict with the rest of the civilized world. If you're a Muslim trying to combat that perception, it's safe to say that burning buildings and issuing fatwas are counter-productive to your goals. But it seems many want to have it both ways. They want to be treated with respect and kindness while still being able to spew vitriol and push for Islamic law.

I can't believe people still think there was some moral grey area about this. Naive notions of political correctness are exactly what have hampered serious, honest discussion about Islam and its extremist components. The right wing of politics may be overzealous in its attacks on the Muslim community, and many of such critics are fascists. But the left has yet to grow a pair on the matter entirely.

But see the problem is the way you related what happened in regards to that cartoon to the entire muslim community, not just the extrenme. Some muslims got pretty pissed off, but most didn't get bothered with it. So why use that incident to condemn all muslims. Christians blow up abortion clinics, kill gay people, Jews did their share of terrorism back in the day, etc. Each side has their extremes, so why do we pass judgement on muslims when a small percentage of their group does something stupid and look the other way when it happens in these other instances? You are going to tell me that if you print an offensive picture of Jesus in a newspaper christians and catholics won't flip the **** out and start bruning down buildings?
 
I can present you evidence that Christianity and Islam cannot be counted as equals with extremists on both sides. The evidence: http://www.uniurb.it/Filosofia/bibl...i/images/Serrano Andres, Piss Christ 1987.jpg
People didn't when that happened.

they didnt get a chance to:

The Danish daily turned down the cartoons of Christ three years ago, on the grounds that they could be offensive to readers and were not funny.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1703501,00.html
 
And look who's whining in the article - Ahmed Akkari. He stated that he wanted two suicide-bombers to attack the parliament building if a secular Muslim politician called Nasser Khader got in charge of integration or something to that effect. To be honest, I think the reason that guy submitted those cartoons was because he felt we needed to do this to impress the Muslims; get us to bash ourselves to apologize for depicting Muhammed. Sorry, I really can't find parallels. The Arabs submitted cartoons to the newspaper depicting Jews drank blood and ruled the world, all that nice Islamic stuff, too. At that time, they said that they "would think about" publishing them. I'm pretty sure they rejected it for the same reason they rejected the above; They don't "owe" anyone anything after depicting Muhammed. Especially not after how the Muslims reacted. The only ones who owe anything are the Muslims after that ordeal. They owe the world an apology. Their reason for not doing so notwithstanding, it was the right thing to do.
 
ya way to read the goddam article I posted Nemesis ..the publisher said they dont take unsolicited work AND he thought some christians would be offended ...but do go on with your usual gibberish
 
I DID read the article. Why do you assume I didn't read the unsolicited part? That they decide that they want to "protect" Christians from cartoons is their choice, albeit a wrong reason, it's still the right choice.
 
it doesnt ****ing matter if it was there choice, it's still hypocritical of them
 
It's not hypocritical not to want to bash yourself as a punishment for depicting a religious figure. But then again, in one way, it depends on what he drew. Besides, the Arab newspapers already depicted us as Zionists, crusaders against Islam, etc. They've been doing that for far longer than we have ever thought about even depicting Muhammed (Sallalahu Aleyhi Wasallah).
We don't HAVE to publish their anti-Semitic crap to be even with them, and we don't have to print cartoons of Jesus, either, to somehow apologize for insulting the Prophet (Sallalahu Aleyhi Wassalah).
 
You are going to tell me that if you print an offensive picture of Jesus in a newspaper christians and catholics won't flip the **** out and start bruning down buildings?

No, they probably wouldn't.

Jesus and the Christian God have been parodied countless times over the last few decades, and you don't see Christians starting riots because of it.
 
Another thing: Jyllandsposten does something that's better than showing pictures of Jesus' resurrection, which we've already seen. They have debates about our religion. Something the state-run Arab papers don't have the luxury of.
 
the majority of christians eat meat on fridays, have casual sex, use contraceptives and use the lords name in vain ...were you to take all those that follow the religion to the "T" (is there such a thing as a non-practicing muslim?) I'm sure you'd find a lot more extremism ...but this debate is silly, all religions should be suspect because god knows religions make people do incredibly stupid things
 
Like killing non-m...I mean like killing disbelievers.

Islam is different than Christianity is, and you simply cannot say that we should be suspect of ALL religions, because that would just be a waste of time. The Muslims are the primary problem with integration in the Western world, and the same goes with terrorism, and the latter doesn't help peoples' perception of them. Neither does it help that a large part of them bring a part of their own culture over here and demand that WE change in order not to offend them. That is wrong and that is the gist of what this post is about.
 
Like killing non-m...I mean like killing disbelievers.

yes that's absolutely never happened in all of christian history

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1211215,00.html



Islam is different than Christianity is, and you simply cannot say that we should be suspect of ALL religions, because that would just be a waste of time. The Muslims are the primary problem with integration in the Western world, and the same goes with terrorism, and the latter doesn't help peoples' perception of them. Neither does it help that a large part of them bring a part of their own culture over here and demand that WE change in order not to offend them. That is wrong and that is the gist of what this post is about.

yes that's absolutely never happened in all of christian history

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1211215,00.html
 
Like killing non-m...I mean like killing disbelievers.

Islam is different than Christianity is, and you simply cannot say that we should be suspect of ALL religions, because that would just be a waste of time. The Muslims are the primary problem with integration in the Western world, and the same goes with terrorism, and the latter doesn't help peoples' perception of them. Neither does it help that a large part of them bring a part of their own culture over here and demand that WE change in order not to offend them. That is wrong and that is the gist of what this post is about.

And I'm sure lumping all muslims in to one huge terrorist group has absolutely nothing to do with how a larger population of them have become radical in the last few years. No, instead I'm sure its simply because they are inferior to us, huh Nemesis?

Do you understand that you are just as responsible for this shit as they are? If you did this type of persecution to christians they would do the exact same thing. And as the jews have already proven in the last century if you do this to them they will resort to terrorism too, terrorism you said you support. Can you show me one example of Muslims killing non muslims in the west before the 1950s? If you can't do a little thinking on your part and try to figure out what has happened since. Then fast forward to 2003 and look at how much more radical they have become after the Iraq invasion. Again, do you see where we play in to that picture or are you too blind to see that?
 
No, instead I'm sure its simply because they are inferior to us, huh Nemesis?

How did you know?

Do you understand that you are just as responsible for this shit as they are? If you did this type of persecution to christians they would do the exact same thing. And as the jews have already proven in the last century if you do this to them they will resort to terrorism too, terrorism you said you support. Can you show me one example of Muslims killing non muslims in the west before the 1950s? If you can't do a little thinking on your part and try to figure out what has happened since. Then fast forward to 2003 and look at how much more radical they have become after the Iraq invasion. Again, do you see where we play in to that picture or are you too blind to see that?


Hold up a minute... you're accusing me of their actions? Logical fallacy. By that standard, people like you and Stern are just as guilty because you trivialize their actions by finding some "root cause" or spew moral-relativism(Stern). You know that even before World War 2, this stuff happened in their mosques, right? It did. Same rhetoric. Kill the kuffar, Islam will dominate, etc. When they got support from the West coinciding with the early days of the state of Israel, they carried that ideology that had been fermenting for all that time. The Grand Mufti of Palestine comes into mind.
 
so let me get this straight, you want the west to invade these countries and put them to the sword just so foreigners dont have observe their customs?

Try to read what you reply to my left wing facist..poster.when did anyone mention invading a country?.. the post is regarding people who come to live in western (Christian nations)..Atheists like yourself are not the majority in the UK..take note...what was the about btw rofl..attack some country..you smoking?

if i go abroud im in a foreign nation and observe their custums..i do not demand they change theirs to suit me..or threaten violence if they do not.

you religious fanatics should be put into a giant arena to fight to the death ..the victors will be subsequently machine gunned as a preventative measure once the dust settles
well i would get all you left wing fanatical extremists and box you traitors up..along with all the illigals and the islamo-nazis and send you to saudi arabia..im sure as you are such a tolerant person you would enjoy seeing how such tolerant societies act and treat non natives..you dont like this country leave..we would be much better off.




intolerance and hate? that's not very christian of you ..which is absolutely no surprise as you idiots tend to pick and choose what you want to follow ...I should stone you for being ignorant ..in fact the whole community should stone you ...I'm not christian and dont have to follow that "he who is without sin, cast the first stone" nonsense
Stoning is what muslims do to rape victims or theifs in iran, iraq saudi arabia..in palastine the parents tend to murder their daughters who were raped..or have had looks for guys etc...its not a christian thing..you r in the uk, you should know.

I live in a nation which has welcomed millions..and bent over backwards for people who hate our culture our colour and our religion (not everyone is without faith..and this country is christian not athiest..)
we have to many and are loosing our own culture..white people are treated like 2nd class.. this is our homeland. and i will say what the hell i like ..the fact left wing facists like you get all upety..is amusing to me..theres me thinking the Nazis are extinct.

/me picks up 20lb rock
you are a comedian i have to hand it to you man..your hillarious..(sacasim)
 
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