Big time lawsuits brewing between Valve and Vivendi

[smsKONG]

Jesus - It doesn't matter who did what or who said what.....It has to do with what you can prove BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT..

VU has to prove valve misled/ delayed intentionally

Valve has to prove VU delayed CZ intentionally/deliberately held money they owed from valve.

Valve to me looks safe on both the cases


And as for HL2 not working without steam...HOW IN GODS NAME DO YOU KNOW OT DOESN'T - prove it!

They made all the old games compatable after the fact- why could they not do this with HL2 just as easily (and as I've stated it would also likely be the steam guys who did this - not the HL2 guys = no delay by steam)

I'm not saying I'm right about the whole steam/HL2 development process, but on the flipside you have no idea either. And for that matter VU likely have little PROOF over all this either- valve hold all the aces.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

don't forget people!!
gabe worked at the big MS + (ie is to xp as steam is to hl2)= vivendi is screwed because all updates will be provided from steam and not vivendi packaging, cutting out even more revenue from the publisher..

Where the hell do you get your facts from? Companies to send out updates, they are usually put out on the internet and you have to download them....You are wierd.

 

[shad3r]

steam isn't just a front end - at heart it is a distributed filesystem

no valve games can now load _anything_ without using steam.
there is no point making a distributed filesystem unless you plan to distribute files with it - the entire purpose of steam was online distribution of software from the very start.

the other features are just there for completeness.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

no valve games can now load _anything_ without using steam.

Wrong, you can load the games without steam.

 

[cadaveca]

Jesus - It doesn't matter who did what or who said what.....It has to do with what you can prove BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT..

VU has to prove valve misled/ delayed intentionally

Valve has to prove VU delayed CZ intentionally/deliberately held money they owed from valve.

Valve to me looks safe on both the cases


And as for HL2 not working without steam...HOW IN GODS NAME DO YOU KNOW OT DOESN'T - prove it!

three little letters for ya...N.D.A.


oh and kong, the info can be found at the "valve speaks" section of this forum, at least in part.

 

[shad3r]

Wrong, you can load the games without steam.

how?
the steam versions of the games do all their file access thru the steam filesystem?
i'd like to be proven wrong...

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

I don't exactly know how it works, but how you think there is people with cracked cs:s beta's running around, not on steam.

 

[cadaveca]

how?
the steam versions of the games do all their file access thru the steam filesystem?
i'd like to be proven wrong...

quiet. people aren't supposed to know the power of steam yet..lol :cheers: :burp:

 

[cadaveca]

I don't exactly know how it works, but how you think there is people with cracked cs:s beta's running around, not on steam.

i could tell you how, but i don't think that i am allowed on this forum. regardless, the problem was patched in steam within 24 hours.

 

[shad3r]

I don't exactly know how it works, but how you think there is people with cracked cs:s beta's running around, not on steam.

just 'cos it's not being authenticated by the steam servers doesn't mean it's not using the steam distributed filesystem code to load the files.

they've just cracked the authentication step, is all.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

i could tell you how, but i don't think that i am allowed on this forum. regardless, the problem was patched in steam within 24 hours.

I have a general idea, but don't rather care, since I buy all my games never have to worry about things like that. VALVe changed the server protocol twice I think to fix the problem

 

[cadaveca]

just 'cos it's not being authenticated by the steam servers doesn't mean it's not using the steam distributed filesystem code to load the files.

they've just cracked the authentication step, is all.

HAD. does it still work? i don't think so.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

just 'cos it's not being authenticated by the steam servers doesn't mean it's not using the steam distributed filesystem code to load the files.

they've just cracked the authentication step, is all.

No, there is no steam loaded at all. Its like how you used to launch games under the WON.net service.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

HAD. does it still work? i don't think so.

Yes, it does.

 

[cadaveca]

No, there is no steam loaded at all. Its like how you used to launch games under the WON.net service.

2 versions of a crack , well no, 4 versions have been found and stomped on. they can still connect vi LAN, maybe, but not through steam. which is good, as things have been changed, and the new maps are not part of that "crack".

i am pretty sure i can bypass steam myself, and play HL2 without it, but then i could not play online with the rest of the world, only a select bunch. i will not do this, however, because i truly belive someone spent time to make the game, and i feel that they deserve some sort of repayment for my enjoyment. i would much rather give it to them directly, and would even bust up the bill so i could give each employee thier 36 cents...

 

[shad3r]

just cos Steam.exe is not running doesn't mean Steam.dll and the other modules aren't linked to the app.
i would bet quite a lot that CS:S cannot run without loading those modules.

EDIT: Steam/bin/FileSystem_Steam.dll would be the obvious one.

 

[cadaveca]

Yes, it does.

in conjuction with steam?

 

[smsKONG]

talking out of your crack pipe....

JUST BECAUSE IT WON'T PLAY WITHOUT STEAM, ONLY MEANS THAT VALVE HAVE PACKAGED IT THAT WAY.
IT DOESN'T MEAN IT CAN'T BE MADE TO WORK WITHOUT STEAM OR WASN'T ORIGINALLY MADE TO WORK WITHOUT STEAM.
(only that valve now wish it to only work thru steam- and as I've already asked you to do- prove that the people developing steam and incorporating HL2 into steam were directly taken from HL2 BEFORE they were finished with their particular jobs on HL2).

Oh and saying crap like - oooh can't say (wink, wink) ...N.D.A.

means jack all since plenty of people on these forums say stuff like that - and considering how little you actually seem to know about all this I can only gather you are full of it.

 

[shad3r]

smsKong - no.

if it uses functions from FileSysteam_Steam.dll to load files it can't run without that .dll. that makes steam an integral part of the app.

the program would have to be rewritten and recompiled to work otherwise, and that will only work if there are no major design assumptions built on the Steam architecture.

EDIT: sorry, i re-read ur post. it's the design assumptions that are key. you need to check the source code, which i ges is why Vivendi are requesting it.

 

[tennistoad]

grow up

VALVe wouldn't drag their feet on a game, they would do it the correct way, if you call that dragging your feet, well then....They didn't know they could sell things off of steam till about a year or two ago, bandwidth wasn't an issue. ATi won't sue VALVe, cause they want to have a game that ATi cards accel at. Thats the persons fault for buying it, not VALVe's Yet again, ATi won't sue, they know about the issues.

Yeah because he is old he won't believe it, nice try..Valve isn't deceptive, they run a damn business, and delays occured and some of their property is trying to be taken away from them. What would you do? Sit there like a little girlie-man and let them take it from you? I sure as hell wouldn't.

I remember one date, Sept 30 2003. I find it funny you people call it "lying" some of you need to go out into the real world and see that there is delays all over the place. They still haven't put out another date, so your statement is void. Well then those people need to learn to not buy hardware for just one game.

point one: Valve would drag their feet on a game...They strong armed vivendi on a new contract with that threat.

point two: you say valve didn't know they could sell stuff off of steam till a year or two ago??? Ever hear of EBAY!! PORN!!! you've been able to sell stuff on the internet since inception..

point three: ati wouldn't sue cause the game runs well on their equipment.. are you and idiot,, the only reason ati wouldn't sue is if a they knew it wasn't coming out till 2004+ or B they are going to get a big kickback off their voucher price.

point four: The judge on a case makes a huge difference period.. and age matters, your like 14 and you don't understand business so you wouldn't do so well deciding things about one..

ONe last thing 9-3=2003 Wasn't just promised to hl2fans it was preorded for that date by business and sold to tie ins for that date by VALVE even though they werent' even close to finishing. and that was in may with only 4 months to finish.. So if that's just a delay and not an out and out lie then Valve is just a company that has really bad luck...

delays in the realworld all over the place,,,yeah and when there are delays in the "realworld" people pay for those delays, usually the ones that cause them or create them...

 

[tennistoad]

Where the hell do you get your facts from? Companies to send out updates, they are usually put out on the internet and you have to download them....You are wierd.

I mean the new game chapters you pay for ,, the alyx chapters etc.that valve has said will follow,

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

point one: Valve would drag their feet on a game...They strong armed vivendi on a new contract with that threat.

point two: you say valve didn't know they could sell stuff off of steam till a year or two ago??? Ever hear of EBAY!! PORN!!! you've been able to sell stuff on the internet since inception..

point three: ati wouldn't sue cause the game runs well on their equipment.. are you and idiot,, the only reason ati wouldn't sue is if a they knew it wasn't coming out till 2004+ or B they are going to get a big kickback off their voucher price.

point four: The judge on a case makes a huge difference period.. and age matters, your like 14 and you don't understand business so you wouldn't do so well deciding things about one..

ONe last thing 9-3=2003 Wasn't just promised to hl2fans it was preorded for that date by business and sold to tie ins for that date by VALVE even though they werent' even close to finishing. and that was in may with only 4 months to finish.. So if that's just a delay and not an out and out lie then Valve is just a company that has really bad luck...

delays in the realworld all over the place,,,yeah and when there are delays in the "realworld" people pay for those delays, usually the ones that cause them or create them...

1. Valve didn't, VU did.
2. Yeah Ebay has nothing to do with this, they didn't have the amount of bandwidth now that they did a year or 2 ago, they had at the most 2 or 3 mbps.
3. I can't believe how ignorant you are
4. Yeah....I am like 14, and don't know how business work...You wish, I am actually employed to someone that owns his own business recruiting people to pharmaceutical companies. You wish I was 14, cause then you'd look smart to me.

Oh damn they missed their date, quick someone call 911! Seriously your grammar is about as bad as shmozy's, I wonder if you're related, cause I can read barely any of your posts.

So are you saying VALVe didn't pay for their own mishap? Sad, they are funding the project themselves, so yes they did pay for the delay, but I am sure a "smart" person like you would know that.

 

[smsKONG]

smsKong - no.

if it uses functions from FileSysteam_Steam.dll to load files it can't run without that .dll. that makes steam an integral part of the app.

the program would have to be rewritten and recompiled to work otherwise, and that will only work if there are no major design assumptions built on the Steam architecture.

You aren't reading what I'm writing are you??

Apart from the fact that the crack and leak didn't require steam, what I am saying is how do you know valves steam guys didn't convert HL2/ CS:S to work like this (as they did with the other games) and who is to say that they can't be somehow converted back-- Here's a tip, it's already been done in the CS:S crack

 

[shad3r]

i just checked with PView and hl2.exe loads filesysteam_steam.dll and steam.dll when it is started.

EDIT: and the steam serverbrowser dll

 

[cadaveca]

talking out of your crack pipe....

JUST BECAUSE IT WON'T PLAY WITHOUT STEAM, ONLY MEANS THAT VALVE HAVE PACKAGED IT THAT WAY.
IT DOESN'T MEAN IT CAN'T BE MADE TO WORK WITHOUT STEAM OR WASN'T ORIGINALLY MADE TO WORK WITHOUT STEAM.
(only that valve now wish it to only work thru steam- and as I've already asked you to do- prove that the people developing steam and incorporating HL2 into steam were directly taken from HL2 BEFORE they were finished with their particular jobs on HL2).

Oh and saying crap like - oooh can't say (wink, wink) ...N.D.A.

means jack all since plenty of people on these forums say stuff like that - and considering how little you actually seem to know about all this I can only gather you are full of it.

i also posted taht the info i referenced in the post we are refering to could be found in the "valve speaks" section.
and yes, i do have an nda, although no copy of the game to play. I'm a logistical officer.

by the way, ever wonder why they released things they way they did? so that they could stop crack before release. simple rewrites make your points unviable.

of course you can recompile the code to not use steam. duh. it's just code. but to do so is illegal, and you've admitted your guilt.
personally, i'm done talking to your criminal self.

 

[Quixote]

I agree with tennistoad and would like to add that Valve/Vivendi have to prove nothing "BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT," as you put they just have to show the proponderance of facts support their claim, in other words, it most likely is the case because of the evidence at hand. This is a civil matter not a federal one.

 

[shad3r]

FFS read.

steam.exe IS NOT STEAM.

steam is a bunch of .dll files.

you dont need to have the steam icon in your task bar for the core of steam to be on ur machine

i will bet the leak has all the dlls i mentioned in it.

edit: but yes, smsKong, i did respond last time without reading what you wrote properly. and i apologised for doing so.

 

[cadaveca]

and seeing how this has nothing to do with the title of the thread....

 

[shad3r]

and seeing how this has nothing to do with the title of the thread....

if it gets to court they will be arguing about exactly what we are aguing about now. thats why Vivendi want the HL2 source code.

 

[cadaveca]

did you read the disposition...they are not asking for the source code...they want the revenues from online sales. the source code is valve's IP, and vivendi will never have ANY claim for it.

 

[shad3r]

i thought they did... let me get a quote.

EDIT:

here u go, from GameSpot

For readers not familiar with the case (that is, just about everyone), the overall timeline is referenced in documents filed by VUG attorneys on Wednesday, September 15, 2004. In those documents--a second motion "to compel production of [Half-Life 2] source code"--Sierra/VUG attorneys stated their case in filings as follows:

*snip*

"It was not until March 2002, nearly a year after the 2001 SPA was signed, that Valve announced the new Steam technology in a Game Developers' Conference in San Jose. Production of the source code in native, electronic, compliable format will allow Sierra/VUG to analyze the timing of Valve's development of Steam and the relevant Valve games.

 

[Quixote]

1. Valve didn't, VU did.
2. Yeah Ebay has nothing to do with this, they didn't have the amount of bandwidth now that they did a year or 2 ago, they had at the most 2 or 3 mbps.
3. I can't believe how ignorant you are
4. Yeah....I am like 14, and don't know how business work...You wish, I am actually employed to someone that owns his own business recruiting people to pharmaceutical companies. You wish I was 14, cause then you'd look smart to me.

Oh damn they missed their date, quick someone call 911! Seriously your grammar is about as bad as shmozy's, I wonder if you're related, cause I can read barely any of your posts.

So are you saying VALVe didn't pay for their own mishap? Sad, they are funding the project themselves, so yes they did pay for the delay, but I am sure a "smart" person like you would know that.

You are unbelievably wrong and misguided on almost all your issues. And incidendtly don't degenerate the debate to ad hom. attacks they leave you looking 14 years old even if you aren't.

1. You have no proof that Valve didn't drag their feet on HL2. And the evidence available to us points to the fact they DID drag out production. They insisted last year the game was done to magazines, fans and companies like ATI.
2. The bandwidth isn't in question the ability to sell units is.
3. There really is no point to number 3 other than to say you have nothing to say regarding his counterpoint.
3b. ATI would most definately sue them if turns out they were misled as to the completion date and status of HL2. ATI paid a lot of money for the right to bundle HL2 with their cards and it makes them look extremely bad to have people with outdated cards and NO bundled game.

4. See my introduction. Additionally misssing the first deadline could be a large problem for valve if it turns out the game was in a releasable state or near to it. They sold that date not only to fans but to ATI. And honestly if their publisher had to go to court to get access to the source code do you think they'd really show that to ATI or anyone else. NO!

 

[cadaveca]

wanting the code is so they can prove that steam is part and parcel of HL2, and therfore, because they have distribution rights for HL2, they want the $$'s as well.

 

[shad3r]

exactly.
by showing the HL2 source code is built around the design of the Steam components, they can prove their case.

hey Disturbed i have a DOHC VTEC integra

 

[cadaveca]

"to compel production of [Half-Life 2] source code"--
read that as the game on the shelves, and why i know that we have no worries about the game being delayed by therelease. this is why the hearing for oct 8th was set...waiting until march next year is not possible.
they want "to compel production"..make it come out for release sooner.

edit: this is why the ealry date was set, and how they explained their addictions to the diposition.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

You are unbelievably wrong and misguided on almost all your issues. And incidendtly don't degenerate the debate to ad hom. attacks they leave you looking 14 years old even if you aren't.

Yeah, I sure am whatever buddy. Yeah I just like attacking and looking like a 14 year old.....You people are just sad...

 

[Rossell]

I say - bury the hatchet or have both their HQs firebombed.

 

[Quixote]

Yeah, I sure am whatever buddy. Yeah I just like attacking and looking like a 14 year old.....You people are just sad...

I never said that you enjoy attacking, just that you are misguided in your thoughts on the issues and what they mean. You're looking like a 14 y/o is incidental. :cheers:

 

[tennistoad]

1. Valve didn't, VU did.
2. Yeah Ebay has nothing to do with this, they didn't have the amount of bandwidth now that they did a year or 2 ago, they had at the most 2 or 3 mbps.
3. I can't believe how ignorant you are
4. Yeah....I am like 14, and don't know how business work...You wish, I am actually employed to someone that owns his own business recruiting people to pharmaceutical companies. You wish I was 14, cause then you'd look smart to me.

Oh damn they missed their date, quick someone call 911! Seriously your grammar is about as bad as shmozy's, I wonder if you're related, cause I can read barely any of your posts.

So are you saying VALVe didn't pay for their own mishap? Sad, they are funding the project themselves, so yes they did pay for the delay, but I am sure a "smart" person like you would know that.

Valve might be funding it themselves but they are recieving funds for it from ati, vugames, and probably some other tie ins we don't know about yet.. id got millions from nvidia for doom3..

Also valve only having only 1 or 2 t's is a joke. You should know about business plans then. and to think they just decided to sell it online after the new contract is stupid.. I'll bet your boss looks for people in schools and other business's , I'll bet he doesn't advertise that he can fill a position in say sept 2003 and then not deliver a candidate to the company till say sept 2004, it he did you'd be outta a job..

valve is the golden goose,, all these contracts and agreements mean millions for ati, vugames, ebgames, pcgameplay etc... and to think that someone won't sue over it is naive..

 

[cadaveca]

exactly.
by showing the HL2 source code is built around the design of the Steam components, they can prove their case.

you are quoting gamespot, and not the diposition itself. there are alot of interpretations based on whatever it is, by gamespot there. articles are written to get you to lean to one direction or another. all that crap was thier explanation as to why they have a claim to the money from online sales, not that they actually wanted any code. they say that because they code is addded in after, that HL2 was ready before steam was, and by delaying release of the RC, so they could add in the steam component, is wrong. pretty simple, actually, and although i don't approve of smskong's posts, he is getting to vivendi's point....Steam added in. added in. in order to add it in, you have to have the base material first. which basically says that the game was done.

gabe's origonal "fools gold" post was real. the game was done, and ready to ship as an RC, but steam was not. the month dleay between august and now was because of steam, not the HL2 game at all, and valve's got some 'splainin to do.IMHO