Blu-Ray-LESS PS3 Possible?

[Javert]

What if Blu-Ray failed and HD-DVD became the superior format?

Sure Sony is betting the farm with cows on Blu-Ray, but if it fails Sony would have to make a fast switch to a PS3 with "value", namely a lower price as people would have no Blu-Ray media. Would Sony "influence" developers to use Blu-Ray for games? (Imagine FF XIV or GTA IV-V as Blu-Ray exclusives. It is possible.) Would that continue to justify the format?

But would you buy a PS3 WITHOUT Blu-Ray, for a lower price? What if Blu-Ray players became "extinct", would the PS3 suddenly cost $400? $350? Would they agree to it? And how screwed would you feel if you bought the Premium system on opening day?

Your thoughts.

(This is not a PS3 bash. But it's the only console who's all-in on a non-decided format.)

Would you get one then?

 

[Gray Fox]

Now that is an orgasmic tought. I´m all for price drops.

 

[Ren.182]

It's something I don't like about these next-gen systems. Having completely new storage mediums and both having a different type. We have no idea which the majority of the public will go for, because lets face it, they both are pretty much the same.

Though, it is possible that both storage types survive. Both Sony and Microsoft have enough money to waste on these devices, so neither will die without a fight.

Personally I think the HD-DVD may win. The general public know what DVD's are. Blu-ray sounds like some type of futuristic gun fires

 

[CptStern]

yes but wouldnt they have to include either a dvd or some other video format? if hd-dvd becomes the norm and xbox360 games on hd-dvd become the norm then the ps3 would be effectively gutted by not having some sort of high capacity solution ..they couldnt compete unless they adopted some other common format ..and it wouldnt be hd-dvd

 

[smwScott]

If that happens Sony would just drop the price of the console and eat the losses. It wouldn't be possible for them to re-release it without a Blu-Player if that's what you're saying, because games will already rely on it. The only difference would be not being able to play the newest format of movies on your PS3, but it would still have superior storage capacity for games.

And as of now, it looks like Blu-Ray will probably win. It's backed by more content distributors and the PS3 will put a player in millions of homes before HD-DVD breaks the 100,000 mark.

 

[VictimOfScience]

By the time one format or the other "wins" the cost of producing readers/writers for both formats will be cheap enough that putting a different one in will make little difference to the price as it will have already come down considerably by the time that happens.

 

[Javert]

Would people buy an HD-DVD PS3 for $600? I for one somehow doubt it. But people un-interested in this HD jibber-jab certainly won't.

 

[CptStern]

ya but in the meantime sony could lose their shirts ..the ps has always been one of their more profitable arms of the company

whatever format wins could make or break the ps3 ..at least initially

 

[Sir Phoenixx]

Would Sony "influence" developers to use Blu-Ray for games? (Imagine FF XIV or GTA IV-V as Blu-Ray exclusives. It is possible.) Would that continue to justify the format?

Sony wouldn't have to influence developers to use Blu-Ray, PS3 games are required to be on Blu-Ray.

 

[Ren.182]

Frankly, until HD televisions take off with the majority of consumers (which will not likely be for a decade or two still), Blu-ray and HD-DVD will be compeltely irrelevant to the average person.

It won't take that long for HD-TV's to become the big thing. Prices are already dropping, slowly, but they're going down. And with all these new HD consoles and DVD's people will make the switch eventually.

 

[SAJ]

The failure of blu-ray and the failure of ps3 would go hand in hand.
In that scenario its (literally) game over for sony as a corporation. Sony have everything riding on this latest console and seeing as playstation is sony's most profitable divsion, they have everything to lose.

 

[hneaz]

what kind of games require 50 gb of data? i mean, most pc games have like 4 gb. i dun think CG movies with take up 40 gb.

 

[Anthraxxx]

MS wins. If hd dvd wins...they already have an external solution for that.

If Blu-ray win, they can always make an external solution for that.

 

[smwScott]

The difference is 360 games will likely start to fill up DVDs and span multiple discs, similar to PS1 games. Maybe even with GTA4.

Also, and I may be wrong on this, but having more storage space means that the developers don't have to compress the data as much. This means it can stream off the disc faster and decrease loading times, pop-up, etc.

 

[destrukt]

The difference is 360 games will likely start to fill up DVDs and span multiple discs, similar to PS1 games. Maybe even with GTA4.

Also, and I may be wrong on this, but having more storage space means that the developers don't have to compress the data as much. This means it can stream off the disc faster and decrease loading times, pop-up, etc.

i bet you are wrong, how huge is oblivion and how much space does it take (roughly 4gb which is half of what a dvd can hold) ?

we won't be running out of space anytime soon.

see the load times during the sony press conference ? they were HORRIBLE (especially gt hd) and they have hard drives / blu-ray drive, lol.

 

[smwScott]

Oblivion isn't as big as you'd think. Despite its large size, most of the textures are the same throughout the overworld and the dungeons. Texture-wise Oblivion is probably on par with your average game. The map file itself probably doesn't take up too much space. It's the voice acting and models that fill up most of that. The game is big in scope but due to the way it's made it wouldn't need to hog a lot of space.

A game like GTA however has many different locales each needing unique models/texture. There are a bunch of very long radio stations. There is a lot more voice acting. It's just a much bigger game. And it'll only get bigger with the new generation.

 

[Korgoth]

There are more hollywood studios signed on to blu ray right now, than hd-dvd. I honestly don't think sony has anything to worry about, not to mention, the sony pictures movie library itself on blu ray would almost be enough to shift the balance in their favor.

And are you guys forgetting that microsoft said they would use whatever format for movie playback only? That means even if hd dvd wins the race, x360 is still only going to playback dvd rom games. Because it would be a mad house if people paid 400 for a 360 then had to pay another 150-200 more for the hd player just to play certain games. Putting it on par with the ps3 pricetag.

 

[VictimOfScience]

Sony have everything riding on this latest console and seeing as playstation is sony's most profitable divsion, they have everything to lose.

Hahaha! No they don't. Sony as a corporation has a lot more going for it than just their game consoles. Plus, the Cell technology and Blu-Ray technology are pies that many different and huge corporations have their fingers in. And they are powerful and influential fingers attached to bodies with clothes on them that have pockets that hold extremely large wallets/moneyclips/billfolds.

But yes, until HDTVs become cheap enough for the common man/woman to purchase, all of this is pretty irrevlevant. High-def is going to catch on very slowly.

And are you guys forgetting that microsoft said they would use whatever format for movie playback only? That means even if hd dvd wins the race, x360 is still only going to playback dvd rom games.

I forgot, yes. But its a really good point that you bring up. The fact that it won't play HD-DVD games may not seem like a big deal right now, but in a couple of years, this will likely make a huge amount of difference. Stay tuned!

 

[CptStern]

but blu ray also could cripple sony's movie production/distribution branch ..they've put too many of their eggs in the blu-ray basket

 

[VictimOfScience]

they've put too many of their eggs in the blu-ray basket

So have many, many others...which is why it stands to do quite well given its almost blanket support.

We just have to wait and see what the p0rn studios do. It appears that they may have bipassed the format wars altogether with their VOD services and such though. But when these studios make their HD choice, everyone will follow.

 

[CptStern]

ya but sony is taking on hollywood (in a round about way) ...look at it this way

sony pictures a hollywood studio is taking on every other hollywood studio/distribution company ..that's like david taking on goliath (only on a much larger scale) ..even if sony does ok they will not be able to force the other studios to switch formats ..and there's no way the public will stand for 2 new formats. So in the long run one of the formats is doomed to obscurity

 

[Kyorisu]

I thought Blue-Ray players had the ability to read standard disc and DVD formats? If that's the case surley they'd throw support for HDVD, but try and squash the format flat as normal.

The failure of blu-ray and the failure of ps3 would go hand in hand.
In that scenario its (literally) game over for sony as a corporation. Sony have everything riding on this latest console and seeing as playstation is sony's most profitable divsion, they have everything to lose.

Sony are a tad larger than that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corporation_shareholders_and_subsidiaries

Theres a nice big list of subsidiaries.

 

[VirusType2]

Sounds like there is much confusion and misconceptions. Let me clear some things up.


The X360's dual layer DVD is enough space to do huge games, and if they were to really really need more space they can do things like include more discs, like Resident Evil Zero for Gamecube's mini-DvD's, where there was a disc if you wanted to play through the game with Leon, and another disc with slightly different experience and quest using Claire. I don't see this as ever being necessary, but it is a possibility.

The X360 dual layer DVD has plenty of disc space to do just about anything, they wouldn't have gone with a format that wasn't a good choice.

If Microsoft would have gone with HD DVD, they would have had to wait another year to release the console to wait for the finalization of the bullshit copy protection. It wouldn't be able to have a VGA cord for analog High Def connections like PC monitors, and the price would have been high as the PS3.


[Added:] Since they will be expensive Blu Ray discs, PS3 games are almost certain to be more expensive than the X360 games, which here are currently $59.99 3rd party and $54.99 for 1st party games. In order to keep the price of the games down, alternatively Sony's PS3 games can use the DVD format to release their games, which defeats the whole purpose of having the Blu Ray drive.


Instead, Microsoft is releasing the HD DVD drive optionally, so you can save quite a bit of money to buy an HD DVD movie player if you want one, since the Xbox 360 already has the input from Controller or Remote, it has the optical drive bay, and all the circuitry like the high power Xenon CPU, display unit, fan, everything that an HD DVD player needs. I can't express enough how glad I am that they made the HD DVD player optional, so I don't have to buy something I don't need, and so I can hook my X360 up to an analog High Def connection like my PC monitor.



Sony's Blu Ray will not fail, it is pretty unlikely. Sony has used a Trojan horse Playstation3 to help sell the Blu Ray type. Sony has enough money and has invested enough money to insure it's success. It may not be an overwhelming success or it might, but I can assure you it won't flop. Even if it catches on slowly, it doesn't really matter for games. Movie selection might suffer if it isn't a success, but again, pretty unlikely. Sony will continue to support it for decades or more. Sony still supports the MD (mini-disc) players and DAT (digital analog tapes) - formats that were not successful and were released about 8 and 16 years ago respectively.

Each console will be a success, each HD format will be a success. Don't worry, be happy.


I will be going with HD DVD when I eventually decide to go that route. For one, the player and the movies will be cheaper while offering the same image quality and features. While they may try to find a use for it, the extra storage space of the Blu Ray won't make any difference for HD movies, since it will be essentially wasted space while costing more.


Added:
Both HD formats will succeed. The HD DVD will be a huge success since it will be cheaper and just as good for HD movie playback, while the Blu Ray will be a success since it's built into the PS3. The families who buy a PS3 will spring for the extra price of the Blu Ray movies since they already have a player.


Both HD formats are also backward compatible with the DVD, but Blu Ray will never play HD DVD format, and HD DVD format will never play Blu Ray.

 

[VictimOfScience]

ya but sony is taking on hollywood (in a round about way) ...look at it this way

sony pictures a hollywood studio is taking on every other hollywood studio/distribution company ..that's like david taking on goliath (only on a much larger scale) ..even if sony does ok they will not be able to force the other studios to switch formats ..

But iirc all but one of the major hollywood studios are behind Blu-Ray, even if a couple of them support both formats for now. Certainly this demonstrates the confidence most of them have in the format and the distinct lack of animosity on the part of the other studios. (See supporting companies here.)

and there's no way the public will stand for 2 new formats. So in the long run one of the formats is doomed to obscurity

All very true. The format war will be won, but it might take a while since HDTVs are not going to be commonplace for quite some time. Neither format makes sense to me at this point. Greater clarity and enhanced menus are simply not enough to get me to part with even more of my hard earned dollars.

 

[SAJ]

But it doesnt alter the fact that the playstation arm of sony props up the balance sheet enormously.
If sony lose out to microsoft this time then their biggest earner becomes one of its biggest liabilities, and what with sony undergoing a massive restructuring it doesnt look good.

To be honest the writing was on the wall when microsoft decided to take them on in the console arena. Once that happens it becomes a slow war of attrition and the company with the deepest pockets wins.
It doesnt take a financial wizard to see how that plays out, sadly.

 

[VictimOfScience]

It doesnt take a financial wizard to see how that plays out, sadly.

If you think MS is doing well, try reading this. The point is, even though they have tons and tons of money, it doesn't mean they will always win in everything they get involved in. If that were the case, MS world own the world right now, which is far from the reality of the situation. There are many folks within MS that hate the idea of their xbox division--all its really done is create a really impressive vacuum that sucks up their budget. Their stock is not doing particularly well at the moment. Bill Gates was worth just over $100 billion in 1999, but now he is valued at a mere $51 billion. The thing to make note of is that he's lost nearly 50% of his worth in the last 6 years or so. This doesn't sound too good to me if I am a shareholder frankly.

They wanted a piece of the pie, they got it. Now they want more. They are getting it to a certain extent, but if you think about it, even having a last-gen console out there for 5 years and a next-gen console out there for a full 6 months, they are nowhere near the number of units sold of the PS2 and will likely never be, to be frank.

They also are failing, as Sony is, to see Nintendo as a real competitor. Nintendo's best move was vocally removing themself from the next-gen war. Now, its not at all unreasonable (imho) that Nintendo could actually win the next-gen console war. Its all very interesting and up in the air though...we'll just see what happens and play some great games along the way! :thumbs:

 

[VirusType2]

The format war will be won, but it might take a while since HDTVs are not going to be commonplace for quite some time.

I wouldn't be so convinced that there can only be 1 format in the West. I don't believe it personally. China alone has 4 HD formats, and one of them - the EVD player sells for about $120 US - although it hasn't been released here for some dumb reason.

HD-DVD players are out now, and are selling out at $500, while the Blu Ray players are around $1000 or more when they come out. (excluding PS3)

Neither format makes sense to me at this point. Greater clarity and enhanced menus are simply not enough to get me to part with even more of my hard earned dollars.

Some people are rich and love movies. I love movies, but I just don't have extra money for this right now. I might never own an HDTV, so I'm sitting on the fence on this one - it's just not worth it to me either.

even having a last-gen console out there for 5 years and a next-gen console out there for a full 6 months, they are nowhere near the number of units sold of the PS2 and will likely never be, to be frank.

Things go up and down constantly. Bill Gates' Microsoft is still dominating the enormous PC world almost unchallenged, and while his net worth may fluctuate, in 1998, Bill was making a million dollars an hour. Not too shabby.

Consider that he made this money in the 25 years or so since Microsoft was founded in 1975. If you presume that he has worked 14 hours a day on every business day of the year since then, that means he's been making money at a staggering million dollars per hour, around $300 per second.

Which means that if, on his way into the office, should he see or drop a $1000 bill on the ground, it's just not worth his time to bend over and pick it up. He would make more just heading off to work.

We're assuming about 4 seconds to bend down and pocket the bill. Of course he can afford to hire people to follow him and pick up any $1000 bills he may drop.

http://www.templetons.com/brad/billg.html

 

[john321]

i personally would NOT buy a console for 600 dollars... it's outrageus for a console to cost so much. 300 was a good price for a 360 IMO.

 

[Cole]

Then get the $499 verison...of course you loose 40gigs on the HD and a bunch of other stuff....

Anyway ill bee having a wii ole time!

 

[SAJ]

The point is, even though they have tons and tons of money, it doesn't mean they will always win in everything they get involved in.

Point taken, but the lines have been drawn and out of the two mega-corps, only one will be laughing all the way to the bank.
It seems that microsoft is playing the Amazon game, in that they have created a division that loses money in the hope that (once they have bankrupted the opposition) it will make a ton of money later on.
Given the astronomical profits that will be available to the victor, neither company will blink until it hurts so bad that the shareholders form a lynch mob.
Now, for microsoft this is bruising, but they knew they would lose money from the outset and they have a lot of disposable cash on hand, so its something they can afford to lose at (they might hate it , but they could afford it).
Sony , on the other hand have been relying on the the profits generated by the Playstation arm of the company for a number of years, and competing with Microsoft only eats into their available funds without increasing their market share(burning money to stay ahead if you like).
One of the signs of winner takes all mentality from the sony camp is the decision to tie the success of blu-ray to the success/failure of the ps3, yes it can be seen as confident but ...................




Ah **** it ! All this corporate-speak is doing my head in.
This subject is so dry , Im getting thirsty just typing.


n-night.

 

[X-FacToR]

With the notorious so few microsoft game line-up allone is going to bad for them, playstation with its uber collection of games (not to mention graphics and features) and nintendo with its new controller are going to destroy microsoft profits even though they have a nice head start, mark my words.

 

[VictimOfScience]

Point taken, but the lines have been drawn and out of the two mega-corps, only one will be laughing all the way to the bank.
It seems that microsoft is playing the Amazon game, in that they have created a division that loses money in the hope that (once they have bankrupted the opposition) it will make a ton of money later on.
Given the astronomical profits that will be available to the victor, neither company will blink until it hurts so bad that the shareholders form a lynch mob.
Now, for microsoft this is bruising, but they knew they would lose money from the outset and they have a lot of disposable cash on hand, so its something they can afford to lose at (they might hate it , but they could afford it).
Sony , on the other hand have been relying on the the profits generated by the Playstation arm of the company for a number of years, and competing with Microsoft only eats into their available funds without increasing their market share(burning money to stay ahead if you like).
One of the signs of winner takes all mentality from the sony camp is the decision to tie the success of blu-ray to the success/failure of the ps3, yes it can be seen as confident but ...................

With the next-gen, the market as a whole will expand and marketshare that was once a given will soon belong to different players. The Wii is going to enetr this race like gangbusters and I think it will surprise the heck out of MS and Sony. This gen will be a lot more even in terms of the playing field and these friggin companies are going to have to do more and more to make themselves seem that much better than the competition so as to justify supporting one over the other. Its going to be like the Wild West come this holiday season!

Ah **** it ! All this corporate-speak is doing my head in.
This subject is so dry , Im getting thirsty just typing.

Me too. This is a boring argument.

 

[VirusType2]

With the notorious so few microsoft game line-up allone is going to bad for them, playstation with its uber collection of games (not to mention graphics and features) and nintendo with its new controller are going to destroy microsoft profits even though they have a nice head start, mark my words.

No Waii!!!11 What do you live in a cloud? Microsoft has 160 great games by the end of this year, on a system that came out only 6 months ago. Unprecedented in consoles in the past.

The playstation 3 'uber collection of games'? What.. tech demos? They don't have any games yet. The PS3 won't really kick in and sell well until at least next holiday season, if not much later.

Don't over or under-estimate any of the systems. Nintendo has the Zelda, Mario, Metroid at launch. Yeah, Nintendo is going to sell very, very well, but don't forget that the X360 will be similarly priced with lots of violent games with great graphics that appeal to psycho's like me.

Like it or not, they will all be successful. Wii, 360, PS3. Get used to having three consoles around. Mark my words. Market-SHARE.

I think many will go towards the X360 and the Wii this holiday, since their prices are much less and their games will be better this year. I don't discount the PS3 in the long haul though. Eventually, the PS3 will make it's come back. Of all the consoles, it's probably got the longest 'shelf-life' as I like to call it. By that time though, I will care even less about the PS3 than I do now - as if it was possible, since I couldn't care less. I'll either be playing 360 or PC.

I'm thinking that PC gaming can really come back some in the next few years as well, big time, with games like Crysis.


I know everything, just ask me. If you ask me if I know everything I will say yes.

 

[Kangy]

Why would anyone buy a PS3 60gb (eg non badly crippled edition) when they can get a 360 Premium and a Wii for the same price? Bearing in mind this is without 360 price drops, too.

 

[Sir Phoenixx]

[Added:]In order to keep the price of the games down, alternatively Sony's PS3 games can use the DVD format to release their games, which defeats the whole purpose of having the Blu Ray drive.

No they can't, all PS3 games will be on Blu-Ray discs, Sony is requiring that only Blu-Ray be used.

 

[Cole]

Also getting Blu-Ray Massed Produced more than HD-DVD will only help bring down its costs quicker.

Throw in a cheap Blu-Ray player(relative speaking) and Sony does have a nice strategy here.

 

[X-FacToR]

xbax 360 sucks I should put that in my sig, if you want a shit game collection buy microsoft consoles. I do agree that they are doing better with the 360 then the xbox though, still its not gunna be enough.

 

[X-FacToR]

Microsoft has 160 great games by the end of this year, on a system that came out only 6 months ago

LOL

 

[VictimOfScience]

Why would anyone buy a PS3 60gb (eg non badly crippled edition) when they can get a 360 Premium and a Wii for the same price? Bearing in mind this is without 360 price drops, too.

Because they like the games that will be on that particular platform? I dunno. Just a thought...

 

[VirusType2]

No they can't, all PS3 games will be on Blu-Ray discs, Sony is requiring that only Blu-Ray be used.

Really? Where'd you hear of this? I've heard the opposite or I wouldn't have said it. For example, the many of the PS2 games were CD ROM or whatever type, not DVD ROM.