BNP support set to rise

[KagePrototype]

Keep on topic guys

 

[UltraProAnti]

Any measures against the BNP are justafied. On their first day of council the Anti-Nazi leauge through eggs at them, I was on holiday but the photos in the local paper looked like they got the bastards good.

any measures, that is, except rational debate, apparently. since they are such a bunch of losers it should relatively easy to crush them in political debate, which means the anti-nazi league must be full of wimps to opt for the egg-throwing routine, and non-democrats for throwing them at democratically elected councillors, even if they are the BNP.

i'm afraid your post pretty much sums up for me everything that's wrong with the response to the BNP, which OUGHT to be a combination of pointing out the stupidity of their policies and outright ridicule. instead we get people reacting like they're the fourth reich in embryo, and we're on the verge of racial civil war. ****ing idiot liberals, get a grip

 

[Solaris]

any measures, that is, except rational debate, apparently. since they are such a bunch of losers it should relatively easy to crush them in political debate, which means the anti-nazi league must be full of wimps to opt for the egg-throwing routine, and non-democrats for throwing them at democratically elected councillors, even if they are the BNP.

It's very hard to argue against a racist, and win over an audeince of racists. We distribute leaflets and condem them and say how crap their policies are, but thats niot a debate. A debate would make them look like a legitimate party, which they are not, they're thugs.

i'm afraid your post pretty much sums up for me everything that's wrong with the response to the BNP, which OUGHT to be a combination of pointing out the stupidity of their policies and outright ridicule. instead we get people reacting like they're the fourth reich in embryo, and we're on the verge of racial civil war. ****ing idiot liberals, get a grip

We do point out the stupidity, leaflets are distributed which rape their policies to shreds, theres websites explaining why they suck. Theres marches with speakers condeming them, we just don't let them respond and seem legitimate.

 

[gick]

Why are they not legitimate? How does a party become illegitimate?

 

[Solaris]

Why are they not legitimate? How does a party become illegitimate?

Becuase they're a party concerned with greed, and made up of hate. It's founded on hate, they don't have the intrests of the people in mind, not at all.

They're just to goddam dangerous.

 

[Mr Stabby]

It may be hard to win over a racist audience, but who really cares. They don't have much racist support, they have disgruntled poor whites for support.

Hitler didn't campaign on killing jews, he campaigned on bread, work and restoring German pride.

 

[Solaris]

It may be hard to win over a racist audience, but who really cares. They don't have much racist support, they have disgruntled poor whites for support.

Hitler didn't campaign on killing jews, he campaigned on bread, work and restoring German pride.

Round here they have a hell of alot of racist support, a hell of alot.

 

[gick]

Becuase they're a party concerned with greed, and made up of hate. It's founded on hate, they don't have the intrests of the people in mind, not at all.

They're just to goddam dangerous.

Still, I dont see how that makes it OK for them to be denied a place in the political process.

I read an article in the Guardian today where they interviewed a few people planning to vote BNP. One guy said that since immigrants moved into his town 'everything had gone downhill'. He even got burgled by immigrants. When asked how he knew that they were immigrants, he said it was because of the footprint they found - 'it was too big to be an englishman's footprint'

Idiot

 

[Solaris]

I read an article in the Guardian today where they interviewed a few people planning to vote BNP. One guy said that since immigrants moved into his town 'everything had gone downhill'. He even got burgled by immigrants. When asked how he knew that they were immigrants, he said it was because of the footprint they found - 'it was too big to be an englishman's footprint'

:\

Thats the sort of support these people get. How can you argue with that.

 

[Mr Stabby]

they are still a small minority, not enough to get an MP, if they get a seat in a council they don't have the power to carry out their 'race' policies

 

[Solaris]

they are still a small minority, not enough to get an MP, if they get a seat in a council they don't have the power to carry out their 'race' policies

They had 30% on my council and got about 9% of the vote for parliament.

 

[Mr Stabby]

that's my point the racist core vote is too small in number to get any real impact

 

[Sulkdodds]

It's very hard to argue against a racist, and win over an audeince of racists. We distribute leaflets and condem them and say how crap their policies are, but thats niot a debate. A debate would make them look like a legitimate party, which they are not, they're thugs.

Do you really think the people they appeal to are unconvertable? Let me tell you something: most racists aren't racist. Most racists are simply stupid. Most racists don't think. Most racists make exceptions for the 'foreigners' that they know, or that live down the street; most racists don't actually think about what they believe or why they think it; most racists merely project a wider fear onto some safely anonymous 'them'. Them from down the council estate, but old Mr Patel? No, no, he's one of us. Not one of them. What I'm trying to say is that you seem to believe many who support the BNP are not going to reconsider their prejudices; this may not be true.

And then this is ignoring the fact that (I reckon) 80% of people who support the BNP aren't doing it because they're racist. They're doing it because they're one or more of the following things:
- old
- scared
- traditionalist
- afraid of change
- worried about a 'nanny state' (something you have in common, then)
- confused and/or scared of 'multiculturalism' (not that that's really excusable)
- gullible when it comes to reports of political correctness gone mad
- in favour of tough punishment
- anti-chav
- worried about 'britain going soft'
- staunchly conservative
- disillusioned with the conservative party and seeking a right-wing alternative
- a fan of the Daily Mail or the Sun
- racist.

The BNP is appealing to middle england in every way possible; appealing to those to whom the phrase 'preserving good old-fashioned english values' sounds brilliant. Scared, stupid, sanctity-obsessed: these people are not necessarily racist but they probably don't care. And there are a lot of them. The BNP also takes a load of 'popular issues' and uses them itself - the environment! Beaurocracy! Globilisation! Labour party oppression! Sleaze! Hey look, those are things that you don't like either.

EDIT: In fact, Stabby put it a lot simpler:

They don't have much racist support, they have disgruntled poor whites for support. Hitler didn't campaign on killing jews, he campaigned on bread, work and restoring German pride.

Gick's example of the crazy footprint man just proves my point: stupidity and vague anxiety (which in this case, happens to be directed at immigrants since they're an easy target) is more of a problem than yer actual racism.

In most cases people are simply projecting their wider idiocy onto immigrants - a sort of vague, shrugging, grey, nondescript, everyday, mundane shit-encrusted racism rather than actual KILL EM ALL KILL EM ALL KILL EM ALL (although I'm sure that latter sentiment may be foremost in the minds of certain supporters and party members).

Who're the thugs, Solaris? The BNP or the people who assault them?

They're still ****s, but this is why I don't trust commies. They always try to oppress anyone who doesn't agree with them.

 

[Solaris]

Who are the thugs?
Thoose people the BNP called heros who stabbed a 17year old asian guy who was just walking down the street minding his own business. Or 5 years ago during the Burnley riots, where white thugs descended into Asian areas throwing bricks at old Mrs.Patels house, beating the sh*t out of anyone who they didn't like, this included 'paki shaggers', I still hear that term every day at school, nothing much has changed.

The BNP blame the immigrants for this, they want an all white Britian, they hate trade unions, taxes. They'll jump on anything to grab thoose disillusioned right wing voters, we have to see through there lives. Hell remeber the secret agent documentary, about where a guy goes indercover in the BNP and hears councillors talking about how they'd love to kill a 'paki' and shit like that.

These people are scum, they're also dangerous. They have to much popularity, they only spread hate and stop cohesion and acceptability. They call the Holocaust a 'holohoax'. They're a ****ing insult to everyone who died to protect our freedoms, and our country.

If I had one right now...... It's ethier we risk letting them get popular and getting power, or we stop them here and now. I'd rather it was them with the eggs all over them, than a chance that Mrs.Seigh might end up being evicted from the country by Gestapo.

 

[Mr Stabby]

We are all well aware the BNP are racist scum

However they should be dealt with through democratic means. I don't understand how people will suddenly not support the BNP if you throw an egg at them.

 

[Solaris]

We are all well aware the BNP are racist scum

However they should be dealt with through democratic means. I don't understand how people will suddenly not support the BNP if you throw an egg at them.

We're trying to stop the BNP attend meetings, and look legitimate.
To some extent we succeded.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Doesn't sound like you're doing any good to me, judging by the thread title.

It's just going to make them more determined, and make you look like prats. Counterproductive.

 

[Solaris]

It prevents them from ruining our democracy by taking part in it.
No matter who votes for them, we're not letting them take power.

 

[Mr Stabby]

with your eggs of truth and justice?

you really are having little to no impact with you anti-BNP stuff espically if it's communist material.

 

[Solaris]

It's not at all. Theres people from all over the political spectrum.

Here

These Guys are a little more Extreme
I Belong to the ANL

 

[Mr Stabby]

pointing out the BNP are far-right isn't helping, most people are well aware of this. Surely as a so called 'socialist' you should be more concerned in the stopping of the alienation of working class whites.

 

[Solaris]

We target them with the 'Socialist Worker'.

 

[Mr Stabby]

well that does no good, they don't need to be told they are getting screwed over by the government, they know it/ percieve it, hence the discontent and turning to the BNP.

They don't want some fringe socialist crap that will never even get a parlimentry seat, they wan't the real parties to listen to them.

Start writing to your MP or do something useful

 

[Solaris]

well that does no good, they don't need to be told they are getting screwed over by the government, they know it/ percieve it, hence the discontent and turning to the BNP.

They don't want some fringe socialist crap that will never even get a parlimentry seat, they wan't the real parties to listen to them.

Were the leading opposition in Tower Hamlet Council, and have a member of Parliament.
The Respect Coallition

Start writing to your MP or do something useful

Hehe, I'm an Elected member of youth parliament

 

[Kangy]

Yeah, I judge Respect on a similar level to the BNP. I'd rather not vote at all if I had to vote between those two.

 

[Solaris]

Yeah, I judge Respect on a similar level to the BNP. I'd rather not vote at all if I had to vote between those two.

Your comparing a leftist party to Nazis? Thats crap.
Why are they as bad as the BNP?

 

[Ome_Vince]

//offtopic
hehe, its actually kinda funny how you "hate", debate and fight these racist ppl and their motives Solaris, yet you defend similar groups originating from the middle-east (*kuch Hamas).
Especially when reading THIS post
The similarities are amazing.
//offtopic

The more you fight and and put these ppl in the spotlights, the more young "lost souls" will "join up".
There's a nice saying in advertisement: "there's no such thing as bad publicity"...

 

[Kangy]

Whilst their politics aren't as dangerous or hateful, they're vessels for washed up bigots or arseholes to promote their own little EgoBoats, whilst trying to float on ideas that other people established before them long ago. Also, Respect whored off of a ethnically diverse constituency in order to get its only win, knowing full well that anywhere else, nobody would give it the time of day if it was spouting off shite about it's position on the Iraq War.

 

[Solaris]

yet you defend similar groups originating from the middle-east (*kuch Hamas).

I explain why they do what they do, I don't defend them.
And I don't see the similarities in that post and Hamas.

And it isn't good publicity, when on the first day of the new council the front page of the local newspaper is of Nazis surrounded by an angry mob, covered in eggs and flour. Then following an article of condemnation of the BNP with quotes from the Anti-Nazi Leauge protestors (egg throwers).

We showed them.

 

[Kangy]

"We showed them"

That what, democracy is completely ignored by thugs?

 

[Solaris]

"We showed them"

That what, democracy is completely ignored by thugs?

That their hate isn't welcome here.

 

[Kangy]

I don't think your brand of hate was particularly welcome there either.

 

[Solaris]

I don't think your brand of hate was particularly welcome there either.

These guys are like spicy tuna x100 ffs.

 

[Kangy]

So? You're like Stalin dropped on his head, does that mean I need to come and throw things at your house?

 

[Solaris]

So? You're like Stalin dropped on his head, does that mean I need to come and throw things at your house?

I'm not, I don't adovcate hate ect. I just want a new way of life based of working together. Hell I might be wrong socialism might not work in theory, but my hearts in the right place I want to make things better for everyone. The BNP want to make some peoples lives a complete hell. They're founded on hate.

 

[Ome_Vince]

I explain why they do what they do, I don't defend them.
And I don't see the similarities in that post and Hamas.

And it isn't good publicity, when on the first day of the new council the front page of the local newspaper is of Nazis surrounded by an angry mob, covered in eggs and flour. Then following an article of condemnation of the BNP with quotes from the Anti-Nazi Leauge protestors (egg throwers).

We showed them.

lol, ofcourse you dont. This is the wrong thread for such a discussion, but i'll remind you next time a Hamas debate pops up
The hypocracy is amazing, just turn the table a bit.
And we all know "why" Hamas does this: they want Israel gone. No real surprise or indepth explanation necessary. Just like Nazi's they want simple things.
But allright, lets save this for another time.

@the eggs etc: They still got publicity right? Their exposure has risen right?
Throwing eggs etc got them nice coverage, so more people now know about them (good or bad doesnt matter), and will wonder: "hmm, what are these guys all about??".
Then 1/10 is a lost soul -> joins up.
A small simple example of how it works.

 

[Solaris]

lol, ofcourse you dont. This is the wrong thread for such a discussion, but i'll remind you next time a Hamas debate pops up
The hypocracy is amazing, just turn the table a bit.
And we all know "why" Hamas does this: they want Israel gone. No real surprise or indepth explanation necessary. Just like Nazi's they want simple things.
But allright, lets save this for another time.

That's debatelable, I'm not sure on Isreals right to exist, I haven't a proper opinion on it. All I was trying to do was humanise Hamas and show why people are willing to kill themselves.

@the eggs etc: They still got publicity right? Their exposure has risen right?
Throwing eggs etc got them nice coverage, so more people now know about them (good or bad doesnt matter), and will wonder: "hmm, what are these guys all about??".
Then 1/10 is a lost soul -> joins up.
A small simple example of how it works.

They were already big news, everyone had heard of them and probably debated voting for them. We made them scared to attend council.

All that is needed for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing

 

[Mr Stabby]

The only practical difference between nazies and communists, is that nazies admit they are trying to destroy lives, the communists lie about it.

Remember kids, political extremes are bad.

 

[Ome_Vince]

That's debatelable, I'm not sure on Isreals right to exist, I haven't a proper opinion on it. All I was trying to do was humanise Hamas and show why people are willing to kill themselves.


They were already big news, everyone had heard of them and probably debated voting for them. We made them scared to attend council.

All that is needed for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing

-Fair enough, we'll see in the next topic about this matter
(ps, would you also then humanise the SS or Gestapo??)

-Thats right, However, you shouldnt play their game. You have to be smart, and fight them in other ways.
Putting Al Qaida in a negative spotlight all over the news hasnt exactly "decreased" the amount of people supporting them has it?
There are tons of examples of extremists gaining support by just being in the media.
Funny enough, thats what terrorism/extremism is all about.
Now i dont want to compare radical right-winged parties to terrorism, but my point is radicals look for the spotlight, to let the world know they're out there.
Other radicals will then join up. Especially when "regular people" become violent and "unreasonable"..

I'm not saying BNP enjoyed it, just saying these violant tactics and media offensives dont really help, they tend to make matters worse..

 

[Sulkdodds]

(ps, would you also then humanise the SS or Gestapo??)

I know I damn well would. Otherwise, what - they're less than human? Nice one, unite-against-nazism-man. Besides, 'human' isn't always a good thing. They weren't robots.