Canadian conservatives try to block same sex marriage bill

[CptStern]

...unsuccessfully

Canadian Parliament Votes Down Opposition Effort to Derail Bill to Legalize Gay Marriage

"The New Democratic Party and most Bloc Quebecois MPs joined with a majority of Liberals in voting 164-132 against a motion to block legislation to legalize gay marriage nationally. The Conservative Party motion called for no second-reading of the bill unless it included language that reaffirmed the traditional definition of marriage as between a man and a woman. "


4 conservative members voted against it as well ...although some liberal backbenchers voted for the motion to block the legislation

many see this latest move by the conservatives as an attempt to cause a further rift in the liberal party who are knee-deep in the sponsorship scandal. Some members liberal backbenchers vote according to their religious ethics (probably why they're "backbenchers").

 

[firemachine69]

I was almost worried they'd win there...

That's some really good news.

 

[satch919]

Good. Who are we to say, let alone the government, who can get married to whom?

I don't follow Canada's political scene but I feel that the liberal's support of gay marriage here in the States is probably hurting them. Does that mean that they shouldn't support it at all? No. The Democrats need to focus on getting votes and building up their base again. If that means overlooking the issue, so be it. Unfortunately, thats what its come down to in American politics.

 

[KoreBolteR]

how about that "liberal" party that aint that liberal?

what do they think about gay marriage?

... why are the conservatives opposing gay marriage?, dont they know that could ruin everything.

 

[The Monkey]

So 45% voted for banning same sex marriges? You must have a lot of conservatives in Canada. I'm still glad to see that most of you are sane, though.

 

[CptStern]

the 45% is along party lines ..so 45% of parliament voted to block the same sex legislation (45% of parliament seats are held by the Conservatives) ...as in every country there are certain people that put religion above all else. It's funny that to a non-religious person same sex marriage is a non-issue ...primarily it's people with strong religious convictions that are opposed to same sex marriage ...well that and homophobes ...there just isnt any other explanation

 

[firemachine69]

I think this is a miracle of god, me and capt agreeing on two things!

(yes, that was an intended pun )

 

[KoreBolteR]

why are religious people so homophobic...

they are never gonna stop the people being gay, so why cant they just live with it.

or grow up.

 

[The Monkey]

I still find it hard that 45% are against it. I thought Canada was more liberal that the US...

 

[KoreBolteR]

I still find it hard that 45% are against it. I thought Canada was more liberal that the US...

then imagine what its like in all the asian countries and middle eastern. even parts of europe...

much higher percentage.

ill try and find some polls now..

 

[CptStern]

I still find it hard that 45% are against it. I thought Canada was more liberal that the US...

actually the 45% is not the figure of canadians that are against changing the defenition of marriage ...60 odd % of canadians are in favour of same sex marriage but only 40% are in favour of changing the definition of marriage to include same sex marriage ...the difference is subtle but just like in other countries religious groups are very vocal about this issue whereas there's not much of a voice for same sex marriage ...most liberals see it as a non-issue because it should be a "given".

 

[GiaOmerta]

Homophobia... the fear of homosexuality. Am I correct?
I admit, I fear every little. I fear for the sake of others sometimes, family, friends. Why would I fear a homosexual? Just another person. Different sexual orientation. I oppose open homosexuality, as I do sexuality in general. Doesn't mean I fear it. Why would I fear it? I just oppose it. I'm not afraid of a homosexual. I fellowship with several of them. The line is drawn if they "make the moves" so to say. Keep what you do in your bed room to yourself. Thank you.

 

[CptStern]

"the only thing you need to fear is fear itself"


the "I dont likegays cuz they may hit on me" is a little outdated as most gays tend to attracted to other gays ...I mean why hit on someone that's libel to reject you or worse yet beat you to a bloody pulp? Seriously guys this justification (I'm not singling you out Giomerta ..you just brought up an interesting point) is hogwash ...not every gay guy out there wants a piece of your virgin ass ...it's like saying well because I'm male that MUST mean all women are attracted to me

 

[GiaOmerta]

not every gay guy out there wants a piece of your virgin ass

No, not all of them.

I oppose open homosexuality, as I do sexuality in general.

I meant to say open sexuality. What happened to keeping sexuality in the bedroom.

 

[CptStern]

No, not all of them.

not even the majority ....maybe a small minority get a thrill from trying to "convert" someone ..but it's not common

I meant to say open sexuality. What happened to keeping sexuality in the bedroom.

well I dont see people having sex on the street so I dont see the problem ...then again I dont think we have the right to judge what other people do ..I dont exactly think it's attractive when 2 ugly heteros are groping each other in public but it's not my place to infringe on someone elses rights

 

[pentagon]

http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet7.html

 

[No Limit]

http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet7.html

Wow, a source using studies that go back as far as 1960. Are you insane? You should give that link to 2 of my friends who are both lesbians and are trying to get married so they can have the legal opportunities of marriage such as tax benefits.

Also, you might want to look at the percentage of people that stay married that are not gay.

 

[pentagon]

is there something wrong with using a study dating back in the 60's? It's not like that's the newest study on there. Just adding a little variety to the mix

 

[GiaOmerta]

It was a good read. Don't get me wrong. I've got family members and friends who are homosexuals, I'm not a hater, I just disagree with their lifestyle and I believe that their lifestyle is should remain shrouded, as should countless others.

 

[satch919]

I think homophobia stems from insecurity. I also think some people that oppose it so much might be homosexual themselves but are angry at the rest of the world because of it. Therefore, they feel the need to oppose it at any opportunity to try to prove to themselves or others that they aren't gay.

Some others may hate gays because the fear that one of them might jump on them and try to have sex with them. We might laugh at that reason but some actually think that gays are out to have sex with all straight men. In reality, the chances of this happening is equal to someone of the opposite sex coming after you in public, throwing you down, and forcing you to have sex with them. Not likely.

They should have as much sexual freedom as any other heterosexual person does. Like someone said, there will always be gay people so why not just deal with it. When will people get it through their thick skulls that its wrong to discriminate against certain groups of people. Look through out history and you'll see that its not one of the more lighter/nicer parts of human history.

 

[satch919]

I'm not a hater, I just disagree with their lifestyle and I believe that their lifestyle is should remain shrouded, as should countless others.

Shrouded? What kind of life is that if you have to lie about it?

How would you feel if you were forced to keep your religious beliefs secret or hidden from society just because someone disagrees with it? What about political beliefs? Everyone has the right to live their lives the way they see fit as long as its in accordance with the law and no one gets hurt.

How does one person being gay hurt or damage society? Being open about it is likely to bring about tolerance later on down the road.

.......shrouded. :|

 

[GiaOmerta]

They should have as much sexual freedom as any other heterosexual person does.

Sure.

I also think some people that oppose it so much might be homosexual themselves but are angry at the rest of the world because of it.

Like many lifestyles, homosexuality is based on choice. Why would someone oppose something they chose to be?

 

[pentagon]

I could really careless who marries who, it isn't going to change the way I live so have at it. The only thing that slightly bothers me is notion that we all should accept homosexuality as completely normal, when it's not.

 

[GiaOmerta]

I'm talking about open sexuality. I should of coined it better. I'm sick of it.

SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX. It's all over the Television, the ****ing radio, the internet, cartoons, coloring books, tattoos, fortune cookies, come on people. Keep it in the bedroom.

 

[xLostx]

Dammit! It should have been outlawed except for hot lesbians. I'm Canadian and conservative but don't think gays should be allowed to wed, it's fricken disgusting and wrong.

*waits for flames*

 

[satch919]

Like many lifestyles, homosexuality is based on choice. Why would someone oppose something they chose to be?

They chose to be gay?!? Most if not all people are born with it. Im sure they would have chose to be straight after having to endure social pressure and ridicule.

If you've talked to anyone who's gay, Im sure they'll tell you that they knew something was different with them when they were kids.

For knowing gays, as you claim, you sure don't know a whole heck of a lot.

 

[GiaOmerta]

My main thing is:

#1.) Sexuality belongs in the bedroom. I don't care what you do in your sparetime, as long as I don't hear about it. Goes for all sexual orientations.
#2.) Marriage is the foundation of a family. Family consists of parents and children. Reproduction. Homosexual 'intercourse' doesn't support reproduction.

 

[GiaOmerta]

What's genetically different about them?

 

[satch919]

The only thing that slightly bothers me is notion that we all should accept homosexuality as completely normal, when it's not.

What is normalcy? Its brought on by society. Its not some universal truth or fact. A couple centuries ago, fellatio may have been considered a wierd sexual practice. Today, its seen as a normal part of a sexual experience. Why? Because society has grown to accept it when dealing with that practice. During the Middle Ages and before then, it was considered normal to drink blood or feces to cure various ailments. Today we would consider that disgusting and taboo.

Haven't we learned our lesson about discrimination on groups of people? Geez. These people aren't hurting you or the way you live your life so why should you care how others are running theirs?

I, at one point was guilty of being homophobic. However, I realized that they should have every right as any other citizen of the United States. According to law, businesses aren't allowed to discriminate against gender, race, or sexuality. Why shouldn't that apply to regular civilian life? To deny these people rights would be to deny our own Constitution.

 

[satch919]

What's genetically different about them?

Genetics probably doesn't have anything to do with it. From what I've heard, its not something thats inherited or passed on from one offspring to another.

Genetics -The branch of biology that deals with heredity, especially the mechanisms of hereditary transmission and the variation of inherited characteristics among similar or related organisms.


It might only be a chemical imbalance in the brain. We don't know for sure.

I'll use myself as an example. I was diagnosed as having generalized anxiety. Doctors have found out that it might be a result of a chemical imbalance. I didn't choose to have anxiety, I was born with it.

The same goes for a gay person. They didn't choose to be like that, it may have been caused by an imbalance. Or it might be something a lot more complex. We only know so much about the brain.

 

[satch919]

I'm talking about open sexuality. I should of coined it better. I'm sick of it.

Why is everyone so affraid of it? Its a normal practice for the continuation of our species. Its the reason why you're here, I''m here, and the other 6 billion people on this planet. Its not an unusual practice.

It should be regulated to a certain extent. For example, I wouldn't have a hardcore porn series in the lineup for a kids cartoon channel. Television channels and radio stations shouldn't have to pay for parents irresponsibility. No one is forcing you to watch/listen to it. You have every right to turn the channel or station. On that same side, you also have the right to deny your child access to such material. If you, a grown adult, is offended by sexual activity or the very mention of it, then you have some hang-ups yourself that you need to address.

 

[pentagon]

They chose to be gay?!? Most if not all people are born with it. Im sure they would have chose to be straight after having to endure social pressure and ridicule.

If you've talked to anyone who's gay, Im sure they'll tell you that they knew something was different with them when they were kids.

For knowing gays, as you claim, you sure don't know a whole heck of a lot.

personally, I don't think homosexuals choose to be gay. I do relate homosexuality to pedophila though, for example, pedophiles have a lust for something that never goes away. Society finds pedophila sickning (as do i) but homosexuality is fine? Granted, pedophiles prey on children without mutual consent..but they really aren't to far off, both are sinful and immoral. I bet if this was the 1950's you'd all be against homosexuality, unless of course you were homosexual. Over time people just become more and more desensitzed and demoralized to things, what's next on the list?

**before i get flamed let me state i am not a homophobe nor do I hate homosexuals, I do believe they have some type of disorder though.**

 

[GiaOmerta]

I prefer the past, satch919 and why should the past differ from the present, besides from technological advances and the expanding knowledge of the physical universe.

 

[satch919]

personally, I don't think homosexuals choose to be gay. I do relate homosexuality to pedophila though, for example, pedophiles have a lust for something that never goes away. Society finds pedophila sickning (as do i) but homosexuality is fine? Granted, pedophiles prey on children without mutual consent..but they really aren't to far off, both are sinful and immoral. I bet if this was the 1950's you'd all be against homosexuality, unless of course you were homosexual. Over time people just become more and more desensitzed and demoralized to things, what's next on the list?

**before i get flamed let me state i am not a homophobe nor do I hate homosexuals, I do believe they have some type of disorder though.**

Homosexuality and pedophilia? We all lust for sexual gratification. We're human. Its how we go about achieving it is what can be questioned. Does your desire for procreating ever go away? Depends on the person. You make it sound like homosexuals are sex crazed beasts out to rape everyone of the same sex when, in fact, you couldn't be further from the truth. You're assuming. Homosexuality is abnormal only because society makes it so.

When you say that both are sinful and immoral, thats only according to your religion. Doesn't the Bible also teach understanding, forgiveness, and tolerance. I guess you could be looked at as a sinner because you don't follow the teachings of your religion, right? If the Bible says it, it must be true, right? You, yourself are guilty of intolerance. What does intolerance breed? Hate and violence. Again, if you looked thoughout history, you'd know this.

Demoralized? Try understanding. Just because we see the error of discrimintating against these people, all the sudden it becomes the demoralization of society. Sounds a lot like the basis to Hitler's beliefs. Watch it. People don't take to kindly to discrimination and intolerance.

 

[willyd]

My father has read the bible 4 times before, and he says that it says in one of the books that "man should not sleep with man" but also in that same book it says something along the lines of children who disobey their parents should be killed... so take what is in the bible with a grain of salt.

Obviously the conservatives haven't.

 

[satch919]

I prefer the past, satch919 and why should the past differ from the present, besides from technological advances and the expanding knowledge of the physical universe.

Why should the past differ from the present? I don't know, time might be a good start.

You prefer the past but is that preference going to halt the change of society or, moreover, the world? No. You're fighting against time man! Thats not a battle you can win. There's a reason why things change. A main reason is knowledge as you have already stated. For some, we learn from our mistakes and hope that we don't repeat them.

Our history is full of war. For some, we can look back and easily see that it could have been avoided if we had learned about and truly practiced tolerance. We discriminate for the simple fact that "They aren't like us". Kinda silly isn't it? With that mentality, I guess its easier to kill someone than it is to truly deal with the situation huh?

 

[satch919]

Bottom line: Gays are humans just like you and I and who are also capable of great things and bad things. Why should a thing as simple as sexuality change the rights of one human being?

If God creates all that inhabits this planet, why would he/she/it allow such a thing to exist? I don't want to hear the trademark, "Because God works in mysterious ways". Thats just another way of saying, "I don't have a freakin' clue how to expain it!"

Ponder that for a while and get back to me.

 

[pentagon]

what if everyone was homosexual? the human race would be doomed

That's how it's not normal.

 

[pentagon]

Bottom line: Gays are humans just like you and I and who are also capable of great things and bad things. Why should a thing as simple as sexuality change the rights of one human being?

If God creates all that inhabits this planet, why would he/she/it allow such a thing to exist? I don't want to hear the trademark, "Because God works in mysterious ways". Thats just another way of saying, "I don't have a freakin' clue how to expain it!"

Ponder that for a while and get back to me.

I'm not saying gay's aren't human beings, i look at them like any other human only that they have a problem...as do most of us.

 

[GiaOmerta]

We have the ability to live as we please, but we are morally, spiritally, and politically restricted.

God may allow sin to exist in the meantime, but He will not tolerate it and no sin shall go unpunished, The essence of being a sentinel.