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I agree with the bullets not using havok, but i'm not so sure about the grenades.poseyjmac said:yes but those are simple calculations, the bullet or grenade ITSELF doesn't use all the variables of the havok physics engine. bullet goes in a straight line(or if modded has slight drop over time), if something is in the way, it hits it.
If they were server-side (and they would be), and exploded close enough to you then yes, you would die.Adrien C said:What would happen if you would pass around some barrels and they blew up, would that kill you ?
SLH said:I agree with the bullets not using havok, but i'm not so sure about the grenades.
I think they may be simulated using havok, since they can be effected by havok objects, and can effect havok objects.
Logic said:Bottom line: the physics engine isn't deterministic, meaning two different computers (or two different events on the same computer) simulating a physical situation with exactly the same starting conditions, may make slightly different calculations, resulting in different things happening. That's why there's a difference between server side and client side physics.
With server side physics, the physics calculations are done on the server machine, and the position and current movement of the object is sent constantly to all the client machines. Client side physics, on the other hand, are calculated on the client machines, meaning no positions are sent (saving bandwidth), but the reason gameplay-important objects can't be calculated this way is that, because the physics engine isn't deterministic, each client computer may calculate the movement differently, which would cause problems. For example: you might be shooting at someone and expecting to be hitting them, but on their computer (not yours) they are actually behind a barrel. Obviously that doesn't work out, which is why server side physics is used for those sorts of things.
That has nothing to do with server or client side... of course you're still going to get that, even if it's client-side. The objects that are server-side that it comes in contact with won't be doing any moving around, though.poseyjmac said:well, we know that ragdoll corpses can properly interact with physics objects such as barrells because of the plinko room demo in e3:2003, which means that the ragdoll CAN BE server-side. will they give us some variables to determine whether its possible in CS:S is the question.
Letters said:That has nothing to do with server or client side... of course you're still going to get that, even if it's client-side. The objects that are server-side that it comes in contact with won't be doing any moving around, though.
Server-side just means that the server is telling your computer where things are... they aren't completely disregarded by your client-side stuff...poseyjmac said:no, a ragdoll corpse that interacts with another physics object HAS to be server side. if its client side, then which clients body placement will affect the barrel?
Non-deterministic simply means that it's not the same on each computer. This could be because of random variables (unlikely that havok has random stuff in physics, probably pseudo-random), or because the position of objects depends on how frequently the physics calculations are done.Lanthanide said:I'm curious, how can the physics be non-deterministic? Are there random variables involved or something?
Yeah, this thread shouldn't really be this long. I thought my longish post earlier would've stopped confusion, but i guess not.Letters said:Haha, that should clear it up, SLH.![]()
All the stuff from the e3 demos are single player... there's no server side in single player, everything's calculated on the player's computer.poseyjmac said:well, we know that ragdoll corpses can properly interact with physics objects such as barrells because of the plinko room demo in e3:2003, which means that the ragdoll CAN BE server-side. will they give us some variables to determine whether its possible in CS:S is the question.
Logic said:All the stuff from the e3 demos are single player... there's no server side in single player, everything's calculated on the player's computer.
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Even if you're on a single player map in that case, it's still multiplayer. What I meant was that the stuff in the e3 demos wasn't multiplayer. There was only one person playing.poseyjmac said:if you know about the leak you know that the e3 demo has MP component, if another client connected he could see the player doing the physics stuff. so even though its SP its still server side.
In single player, they will.Headcrab Cakes said:ok, so completely server side physics in pultiplayer games are not currently possible due to bandwith restrictions.
but, why wouldn't the physics in single player all interact with each other? (i.e. a ragdoll hits a barrel at mach 10 and it will move)
Logic said:Even if you're on a single player map in that case, it's still multiplayer. What I meant was that the stuff in the e3 demos wasn't multiplayer. There was only one person playing.
Anyway, I didn't know that about the leak, but surely that doesn't demonstrate anything about the final game. All that would suggest to me is that the multiplayer in the leak hasn't been set up the way it will be in the final game (in the sense that all the physics default to server side) which is either a result of loading maps that aren't intended for multiplayer, or just the early state of the code.
He said that in post #58.poseyjmac said:you miss the point. the point is, its possible for it to be entirely serverside in MP
SLH said:He said that in post #58.
p.s. A good way to think about SP is that all physics is server-side since the one computer player is (could be thought of as) the server. Indeed in many games the SP is done still using a server type system (not sure about source though).
It's not really either, but all physics behaves as though it's server-side.poseyjmac said:who thought that anything in SP was clientside?
SLH said:It's not really either, but all physics behaves as though it's server-side.![]()
Nobody needs to have said otherwise in order for something to be worth saying. He's just helping clarify it for anyone who may not understand, as there was some confusion earlier. Don't worry about it, if you understand then it's all good :thumbs:poseyjmac said:who said otherwise?
Yes, they'll interact.barnacle said:If i am playing SP will a deadbody interact with another dead body( not go through each other?)
Abom said:Yes, they'll interact.
Logic said:Nobody needs to have said otherwise in order for something to be worth saying. He's just helping clarify it for anyone who may not understand, as there was some confusion earlier. Don't worry about it, if you understand then it's all good :thumbs:
Well that's very interesting, because I am, in fact, made entirely of wood. :cheers:poseyjmac said:ok and remember that shoes are made for walking in