Coincidence???

[Ophiguris]

Why is it that Alyx, Eli, Judith, Gordon, and Kleiner as well as Barney have all been relocated to City 17. Why not put Eli in City 15 and put Alyx... some where else... it just doesn't make sense how all the characters, after being split up in BM, end up in the same place. Gman? maybe, but I think that Eli has no clue about Gman, and what purpose would placing Gordon near all his friends serve? Thoughts? Comments? I think I already know the answer, but would like to hear from you...

 

[Ophiguris]

I started this post almost an hour ago, and no thoughts... I guess you all no something that I don't...

 

[Selkcip]

How to spell "know" maybe? Just kidding. You make a good point, but I'll tell you the answer. If they were not all relocated to C17, then Half-Life 2 would not be the Half-Life 2 that we know; it would be some other Half-Life 2. Plus Breen was the administrator at Black Mesa, so it's likely he had them all brought to C17 along with him so that they could carry out their teleportation experiments under his supervision. Unbeknownst to them, of course.

 

[Cuthbert]

How to spell "know" maybe? Just kidding. You make a good point, but I'll tell you the answer. If they were not all relocated to C17, then Half-Life 2 would not be the Half-Life 2 that we know; it would be some other Half-Life 2. Plus Breen was the administrator at Black Mesa, so it's likely he had them all brought to C17 along with him so that they could carry out their teleportation experiments under his supervision. Unbeknownst to them, of course.

That doesn't make shens imho. I had the same question for some time and the only explanation i have is they were brought together in City 17 by G-Man who knows Gordon's role in City 17. And I do believe it'll be explained at a later date.

 

[Jintor]

Co-incidence is co-incidence, dude. Chance still occurs in a world ruled by the Combine.

 

[A Big Fat CoW]

I agree that the Black Mesa gang was probably relocated to City 17 to continue their research. After all, the teleportation they were working on at Black Mesa was better than what the Combine had, and it's made apparent during HL2 that the Combine is still after Eli/Mossman's research. Most likely, they kept the gang together so that, wether they joined the Combine or not, they'd be in one place continuing their research for the Combine to gather up later (one way or another).

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Didn't Eli & Kleiner break into City 17?

 

[blck_prod]

Didn't Eli & Kleiner break into City 17?

I agree...I think both Kleiner and Eli are clandestine in city 17. Remember they couldn't find Kleiner's lab. And Eli's lab is a little bit outside city17. Altough the Combine knew where he was, they left him alone...waiting for the right moment to snatch the teleport-technology from under his nose.

So I say...they broke into city17 because that's the new Capital-city and the resident of Breen. Good place to start a resistance.

 

[Darkside55]

They broke into a city, not necessarily City 17. But it's likely that it was 17. I presume that the scientists all had a way of contacting each other after the incident; those scientists that Barney escaped with would have pointed him in the direction of Dr. Kleiner. From there he would have just needed to transfer to City 17, perhaps as a civilian or maybe it was already after he took the metrocop job as a cover. The former is more likely, because the Combine like to shuffle citizens around; once he got into City 17 he could've taken the position to lock him to C17.

Alyx of course was in tow with Eli.

The group probably met Mossman in City 17, rather than her relocating with them. That one's coincidence.

Gordon of course is in City 17 because that's where everything is going on, and that's where the G-man put him.

 

[Asknoone]

It has been 2 decades; the natural thing to do would be for everyone to group together. It isn't really that hard to understand. Having people in different locations would be pretty stupid given the state of the world. The resistance team are working against the Combine through technological advancement and, logically, you are going to want all the best minds in the same place.

and what purpose would placing Gordon near all his friends serve? T.

It gave Gordon guidance, it put him on the right track and in three days it ultimately led to the G-mans satisfaction. The answer to that question is quite frankly, the whole of HL2.

 

[Jintor]

Oh yeah, that's right. The bullsquid attack, while Eli was helping Kleiner over the city walls.

 

[Bill Lumbergh]

It has been 2 decades; the natural thing to do would be for everyone to group together. It isn't really that hard to understand. Having people in different locations would be pretty stupid given the state of the world. The resistance team are working against the Combine through technological advancement and, logically, you are going to want all the best minds in the same place.

Is the entirety of the resistance based in City 17, or is City 17 just one branch of the resistance? For some reason I always thought that the whole Eli/Kleiner/Barney/Alyx/Mossman/Gordon crew in City 17 was just our little corner of a worldwide struggle. If not, it does seem kind of strange that all the principles would just happen to be right there together. But then again it's already kind of strange that all these Black Mesa people are prominent resistance players. Wouldn't there be someone more suited to 'administrator' duties throughout the world than Breen, for example, who just happened to be the BM head honcho? Or did the Combine have to select from the relatively short list at BM alone?

Guess I don't know too much.

 

[ríomhaire]

Do you honestly think it's a coincidence that they broke into the city that was Dr. Breen's seat of administration?

 

[Asknoone]

Is the entirety of the resistance based in City 17, or is City 17 just one branch of the resistance? For some reason I always thought that the whole Eli/Kleiner/Barney/Alyx/Mossman/Gordon crew in City 17 was just our little corner of a worldwide struggle. If not, it does seem kind of strange that all the principles would just happen to be right there together. But then again it's already kind of strange that all these Black Mesa people are prominent resistance players. Wouldn't there be someone more suited to 'administrator' duties throughout the world than Breen, for example, who just happened to be the BM head honcho? Or did the Combine have to select from the relatively short list at BM alone?

Guess I don't know too much.

Well, Breen issued the surrender didn't he. He saved us from extinction. I'm not sure about a worldwide struggle, I mean, I'm pretty sure the resistance in C17 is in contact with other bases out in the wastes, but how far it stretches I have no idea.

Remember, they all know each other, the key players. They would have re-grouped.

And Rimfire is absolutely right, what better place to stage a resistance than at the heart of the Combine regime on Earth.

 

[Darkside55]

Is the entirety of the resistance based in City 17, or is City 17 just one branch of the resistance? For some reason I always thought that the whole Eli/Kleiner/Barney/Alyx/Mossman/Gordon crew in City 17 was just our little corner of a worldwide struggle. If not, it does seem kind of strange that all the principles would just happen to be right there together. But then again it's already kind of strange that all these Black Mesa people are prominent resistance players. Wouldn't there be someone more suited to 'administrator' duties throughout the world than Breen, for example, who just happened to be the BM head honcho? Or did the Combine have to select from the relatively short list at BM alone?

City 17 is the major faction of the resistance. They're the ones with all the scientists, the engineers, people who can make a real difference in this war. Think of them as the head. There are likely to be other pockets of the resistance in other cities, other countries...but they're not as important as those in City 17. Likely those other branches would be comprised mainly of soldiers, maybe a few scientists...but as Eli said, those people are few and far between these days.

Breen was the logical choice because he could communicate with the Combine. I've always liked to assume that the governments couldn't do anything about the Combine except throw more and more forces at them, until Breen found a way to communicate with them, stepped up, and surrendered. The Combine also like him because he's a man of science and practicality, and he believes in their cause. He's a person who can be trusted to maintain order in the world because he believes in the Combine's purpose.

 

[Jintor]

I doubt that there is another rebel concentration that has the power to overthrow an administration in the city besides the resistance in City 17. I wonder how far the suppression field from the citadel extended? It probably wasn't global, but you never know... what with the whole 'Combine can't communicate because one reactor got taken out' thing.

 

[Asknoone]

It comes from individual Citadel's across Earth, so I think if you count them altogether they'll span across the majority of the planet.

 

[Bill Lumbergh]

Thanks for all the clarification. :thumbs:

So the City 17 citadel that gets destroyed at the end of Episode 1 would be the "main" or "command" citadel then? It's interesting to note that Breen makes reference to other cities at the start of HL2, and that he "chose" City 17 as the base for his administration for whatever reason. So there are other human-populated areas (at least 16 of them, anyway ) besides scattered pockets in the wastes.

I know that's not a revelation for anyone, just making an observation . . .

 

[ríomhaire]

I doubt that there is another rebel concentration that has the power to overthrow an administration in the city besides the resistance in City 17. I wonder how far the suppression field from the citadel extended? It probably wasn't global, but you never know... what with the whole 'Combine can't communicate because one reactor got taken out' thing.

But there's a difference between the reacters and the cores. The cores are probably still up and running meaning that they can communicate between eachother, just not the rest of the Combine empire.

 

[Asknoone]

The Core is a reactor. The top of the Citadel is a teleport reactor.

 

[Jintor]

Blowing the telereactor blows up the Core (hur, hur, what a shitty movie) as well. Just very slowly. What was it Kleiner said? "Forced a damper on the entire combine network?" Hmmm. What other effects does this damper have?

 

[Asknoone]

I think it was the manner in which Gordon destroyed the teleporter. It was halfway through transporting Breen to another universe, and as you can see it needed a long ass time to charge. I suspect the Combine diverted power from the Core to the portal in an effort to speed up the sequence.

The Citadel is a machine in itself, and the Core is pretty much it's beating heart. When the explosion destroyed the complete upper portion of the Citadel, I assume it caused the Core to react in a violent manner. Of course, it might have happened slower if the Combine weren't trying to speed up the reaction to get the transmission out.

As for the damper, I'm guessing it pretty much just shut everything down - simply lost power. It wouldn't damage the other Citadel Core's, simply the teleporters and the communications network. Not only are they cut off from the Combine Empire, but I wouldn't be suprised if they were cut off from each other. Which actually really likely, given the state of the Sector 17 forces that managed to escape.

 

[Jintor]

Wait. If communications is down, can you still hear the Combine Dispatch? Or are you thinking long-term communications? I think their coordinations is pretty good considering some form of communications is down, so it's probably long-range comm systems.

I think when it says "Forced a Damper" I was thinking off the old C&C "Low Power" ratings - radar goes down, various base defenses go offline, etc, etc. But modified slightly. So if a damper is forced onto a network, then the first thing to go is the teleportation - or the 'retreat' - and the communications - or the 'call for backup' - ? Great planning, Universal Union!

 

[Asknoone]

Whilst the communications network on Earth may still be up and running, Kleiner made it pretty clear that the forces on Earth are completely cut off from the rest of the Combine empire.

As for what gets shut down, I'd say the communication network, teleport grid and probably some other stuff.

 

[ríomhaire]

Blowing up the teleportation reacter didn't do shit to the core, the Combine where blowing it themselves. You and Alyx fixed it back perfectely in less than half an hour, I'm sure the personell in the other citadels could do the same if they had to.

 

[Asknoone]

No, I'm pretty sure it would have blown up either way; the Combine simply accelerated the process and diverted what remaining power there was to sending out a communication.

Were not talking about the teleporter shutting down here, were talking a dark energy explosion that managed to rip it's way through the entire upper portion of the Citadel and cause most devices within the spire to completely malfunction. That would affect the core, and whilst I'm pretty sure the Combine could have contained the Core (to some degree at least), and simply left the Citadel to decay or attempt a rebuild, they chose to accelerate the process and divert it's energy into sending off a transmission, which far exceeded the act of preserving the spire.

Gordon and Alyx didn't fix it back perfectly either, they simply managed to reengage the containment field. It didn't ultimately explode due to Combine tampering (though I'm sure some was involved), it exploded because the Core was beyond safe levels, and like it or not the 'Dark Energy Flare' was set to occur at this point.
Kleiner himself confirmed this when he said, “Our remote sensors indicate the process is accelerating.” Which basically translates into “We knew the Core was going to burst, but for some reason it’s happening faster and it’s going to have a different effect.”

As for the other Citadels, the damper merely shutoff the teleporters and communications network. Sort of like turning off a light switch, except the grid is down and it's on a much larger scale.

 

[bigburpco]

I love you Samon.

Well, except for that Breen is dead thing... he can't die. D:

 

[Que-Ever]

Coincidence???

I think not.

How did Eli manage to stop the bullsquid from eating any more than just his leg? Did Kleiner save him?

 

[d00d]

Maybe just bit his leg off and Kleiner dragged him into safety.

 

[MorganFreeman911]

No, I'm pretty sure it would have blown up either way; the Combine simply accelerated the process and diverted what remaining power there was to sending out a communication.

Were not talking about the teleporter shutting down here, were talking a dark energy explosion that managed to rip it's way through the entire upper portion of the Citadel and cause most devices within the spire to completely malfunction. That would affect the core, and whilst I'm pretty sure the Combine could have contained the Core (to some degree at least), and simply left the Citadel to decay or attempt a rebuild, they chose to accelerate the process and divert it's energy into sending off a transmission, which far exceeded the act of preserving the spire.

Gordon and Alyx didn't fix it back perfectly either, they simply managed to reengage the containment field. It didn't ultimately explode due to Combine tampering (though I'm sure some was involved), it exploded because the Core was beyond safe levels, and like it or not the 'Dark Energy Flare' was set to occur at this point.
Kleiner himself confirmed this when he said, “Our remote sensors indicate the process is accelerating.” Which basically translates into “We knew the Core was going to burst, but for some reason it’s happening faster and it’s going to have a different effect.”

As for the other Citadels, the damper merely shutoff the teleporters and communications network. Sort of like turning off a light switch, except the grid is down and it's on a much larger scale.

Nice Salmonman.

I really actually agree, the Teleport Core and the Core Core are completely different.

 

[Avoidist]

I was always under the impression that the teleportation cores of the different citadels were entangled, so that when we blew up the one at the end of Half-Life 2 it effectively destroyed all the others at the same time. I can seem to recall something to do with this topic when the discussion was held on how all the citadels managed to show up in the first place.

 

[Asknoone]

I'd say the Citadels came via the portal storms. Also, I doubt it 'destroyed' the other teleport cores as such, merely shut them down.

 

[Darkside55]

The citadels came through the Combine's own teleport technology. The portal storms merely attracted the Combine to Earth's presence. The portal storms, while wild and widespread, only affected things between Xen and Earth...no further than our universe. The portals wouldn't have grabbed a Combine citadel a universe away and brought it here.

Also, Samon's right on the reactor explosion affecting the core. The game itself tips you off to this fact; Breen remarks, "You don't know what you'll unleash! You could bring down this whole citadel! Think, man! Think of the people below!" Breen knew if the reactor went the core would go soon as well.

 

[Jintor]

What does entangled mean in physics? I saw it on a recent article on teleportation (that whole we did it thingy.)

 

[Darkside55]

It means objects have a linked quantum state over distances. That is, two or more objects interacting with each other, even across universes, without any known mediator. I believe its used in quantum teleportation to instantantly transmit information about a quantum state from one point to another, thus transfering the properties of one to another, as I understand it.

I'm not a quantum physicist so I don't really get the whole thing aside from that it produces strange behavior from linked particles. If you split a photon into two, those photons are said to be entangled, having the same state but with opposite polarizations and opposite spins (changing the direction the particle was moving in).

An interesting thing to note is that quantum entanglement was argued by Einstein, who said that particles could not transmit information instantaneously because it violated the principle that information could not be transmitted faster than the speed of light. In 1935, Einstein and two other scientists, Boris Podolsky and Nathan Rosen, conducted an experiment to prove that the theory of quantum physics was incomplete because of the nature of entanglement.

This is interesting because Gordon Freeman's thesis paper for his Ph.D. was on "Observation of Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen Entanglement on Supraquantum Structures by Induction through Nonlinear Transuranic Crystal of Extremely Long Wavelength (ELW) Pulse from Mode-Locked Source Array." Nonlinear crystal is what's used to split photons. Some of the experiments done on entanglement involve using lasers to shoot photons into a crystal and then observe the behavior of the two photons that come out, I believe that's what "mode-locked" is referring to. I believe this is what Freeman was doing, shooting photons through an artificial (transuranic) nonlinear crystal and observing how the photons behaved.

 

[99.vikram]

I believe its used in quantum teleportation to instantantly transmit information about a quantum state from one point to another, thus transfering the properties of one to another, as I understand it.

Thanks to the uncertainty principle we can never use entanglement to any meaningful end (ie, to transmit meaningful info). Kleiner seems to have got around this somehow.

According to me Eli and the others are illegal immigrants who came to City 17 because Breen was based there. They don't wear the standard citizen uniforms.

 

[cyk]

I have a feeling this has been covered before (first post noob go!), but would the laser thing used with the sample have been testing entanglement? I'm guessing that the photons would split and then the reaction, or something. Don't know if it has any importance, but now I'm curious.

(this is a pretty bad post :<)

 

[Mahalis]

Yeah, most likely... as I understand it, measuring particle properties in quantum physics usually involves lasers in one capacity or another.

 

[Jintor]

Ok, now what does the Uncertainty Principle do? If it doesn't know where the hell it is... what happens then?

 

[cyk]

Ok, now what does the Uncertainty Principle do? If it doesn't know where the hell it is... what happens then?

I think all we need to know is Kleiner got around it somehow.