Computer for my bro

[Raziaar]

Another of these threads... I know. Sorry about that.

My brother is buying a computer and he wants my help. Every time I look up new computer shit, things always change, and it's a frustrating process figuring out what has changed, what the best deals are, etc.

My brother is kind of leaning towards an i7 rather than the Phenoms like I have. So I was reading toms hardware and seeing that the Intel i7-930 is the best CPU for the price range of around 300 bucks.

So I think that's where we'll start. With that i7-930, and keep adding stuff onto it until we figure out what the price will be, and start changing stuff from there if we have to.

His budget maximum is 1500, but ideally we want to keep it below that. I think he also needs to buy Windows 7 as well... so that needs to be taken into consideration too.

Currently I am trying to find a good motherboard for his i7-930, which needs to be a 1366. He wants it to be fairly upgradeable I guess... for in the future.

I'm just making this thread hoping to get some ideas, since you guys are always awesome about this sort of thing.

I may convince him to get Phenom, for money concern. May figure out a build for an i7 and a Phenom and compare prices.

 

[TwwIX]

Go with a i7 920 D0 Steeping instead. It runs cooler and overclocks better than the C0 stepping.

The i7 930 just has a higher multiplier. It's not really worth the extra money.

I'd check some reviews for mother boards. They're all pretty pricey.

You'd want something with proper SLI/Crossfire support and plenty of overclocking features.
The ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 got pretty good reviews. Same goes for EVGA's X58 series boards.
I myself have a 132-BL-E758-A1.

RAM. Depends on the motherboard. You're bound to run into some compatibility issues.
EVGA boards seem to like Mushkin and G.Skill.

PSU. Go with one of the better brands such as Corsair. Preferably a Modular PSU. As in, removable cables. Trust me. It's worth the extra money. I got myself a 850TX. Great PSU but a shitload of cables.

Case. It's all about room and proper airflow. The external look should always be an afterthought imho.
Do some research and see what appeals to your brother.

CPU Cooling. Well, if you can afford it. Go with a water cooling kit.
The Corsair H-50 is the best next thing though. It's a simple and ready water cooler with a closed loop.
Add two decent 120mm/38mm fans for a push and pull configuration and you got yourself a great water cooling kit for less the money. Air coolers do the job but they have become ****ing huge and take up way too much room these days.

GFX Card. Well, i am unsure myself atm. The GTX 470/480 cards turned out be a disappointment. They run way too ****ing hot and practically offer the same performance as ATI's 5800's series. If you want to go with a Nvidia card, wait for a revision with better cooling and performance. If not, go with a 5850 and overclock it and use a GTX 200 series card for PhysX.

Hope this helped.

 

[Escaep]

This is a list I crafted up about 2 weeks ago for a build I want. $1426 without the OS, but you can fit that in by choosing a different case. I just happened to like the looks of the Cosmos.

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=18404068

 

[Raziaar]

Thanks TwwIX, that's a lot of help! Will take all of that information into consideration.

I'm particularly concerned about water cooling. It's always appealed to me, but I have always been worried about the difficulty in setting it up, worrying about leaks and shit. Water and electronics and all my past difficulties with computers gives me a lot of worry.

I will definitely look into it though.


Hey Escaep, thanks for your list. I will look at that stuff too and see what information I can gather from it if I want to use anything from it. $1400 seems a little steep for what my brother needs.

 

[TwwIX]

That XFX is a non reference model. I wouldn't go with that one. They don't overclock well.
Go with a reference model. Fan at the end, not the middle. XFX has a double lifetime warranty. Meaning, when you resell it the 2nd owner will have a warranty too.
Sapphire doesn't but it's a more reliable brand.

Check the Corsair H-50 out. It has a closed loop. Meaning, it's leak proof.
I have heard nothing but great things about it. No need to set it up. It works with numerous chipsets.
It comes with backplates too. Just attach to your CPU and you are ready to go.

It only comes with one fan though. Most users have it running on a pull and push set up.
Meaning, one fan to push the air through the radiator, one to pull it. You want something with good static air pressure like the Scythe Ultra Kaze fans.

Here, check this out
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/503407-fan-testing-part-2-radiator-tests.html

He tested out various fans. Plenty of good info. He recorded each test too. So, that you can see and hear how loud they are. It definitely helped me.

 

[VirusType2]

"$1,400 + upgradeable."

Man, I built a faster gaming computer for $330.

i5-750 : $ 190
Motherboard: $90
RAM 4GB: $80 ($50 on sale + bundle discount)
- -- - ------------------ = $360 ($330 on sale)
HDD: $75
Case: $35
Video: $130 - $400
PSU: $50
-------------------------------
Grand Total:
$650

($865 with $400 video card)
Upgradable? Somewhat. Or, just build a better computer in a several years if you want.

What are you going to do with the old CPU? Throw it away? I'd rather keep it all together - use it for an HD HTPC, a backup, a family member, for work, a 2nd computer (like for rendering 24-7), etc.

It just don't get it. So you guys have $300 CPUs lying around but you don't have a case or cheap MoBo lying around to use it with.

Well that's just my input. Have fun.

EDIT: the i5-750 is overkill for all current games, including Metro 2033 and Crysis. The most CPU demanding games currently are Battlefield Bad Company 2 and DiRT2 and it's no problem, even with FRAPS running:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z0vPmLeGbo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULV7bxJz6Bk

More benches with a less expensive video card

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6Zy0qi-FWE
(click on the screen to load others)

 

[PJ]

Have you thought about waiting for the new Phenom II X6 CPUs? They should be pretty awesome for the price ($200 to $300 I believe) compared to Intel's outrageous $1000 hexacore. There's a few articles on Tom's Hardware about it.

 

[VirusType2]

The main thing is, don't spend an ass-load on the CPU, when a $200 CPU will do the same! (my brother spent $1,000 on his CPU a few years ago, and mine's better)

The video card is where you get your performance, and so it's where you will need to put the money. And currently, the best video cards in existence ($750) aren't really good enough to bottle neck these new CPUs like the i5-750.

 

[Quixoticism]

You can save a good $200+ by going with the i5-750. Unless he plans on overclocking, the i5 is usually faster than the i7-920 at stock speeds.

 

[VirusType2]

I keep seeing these $300 motherboards for the i7, but maybe they do get cheaper. And the CPU is $110 cheaper. So at that rate, yeah, you can save $300 on the CPU/Motherboard alone. I think 4GB is plenty for a few years (still plays games that use 512MB) so you can save some money there as well.

Put that huge amount of extra money towards the video card for something really special. You can have an extremely powerful card with a ton of video RAM instead.

Keep in mind the resolution of the monitor that will be used when comparing video card benchmarks. Some cards are better at certain resolutions.

Anyway, I think I've offered enough input. Cheers.

 

[TwwIX]

No, it's not cheaper at all. You can find the i7 920 for $200 at several stores now.
Microcenter.com has been selling it for $200 for several weeks now.
Actually, it's on sale now for $169.

The i5 chipset has dozens of motherboards that cost over $350.
If you want quality, you'll have to pay a bit more regardless the chipset. That doesn't mean that you have to purchase the most expensive one. I got mine for $250 plus a $30 rebate.

So much for your cheaper theory.

 

[VirusType2]

He said he wants the i7-930, which is [using newegg prices, were Raziaar buys from] $280 (same goes for your i7-920), then Escaep pointed to a $275 motherboard and $170 RAM.

That's $725.

What I suggested was i5-750 ($200), something like a $90 motherboard, and $80 RAM. You can also save money on this processor by buying somewhere else too!

Whether he wants to spend more for better is up to him. Personally, I don't see "dozens of 1156 motherboards for $300".

They are $75 - $130 :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...scription=i5&name=Core i7 / i5 / i3 (LGA1156)

So here's one for $74 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135260&cm_re=i5-_-13-135-260-_-Product

With all the features you'd expect.

As for RAM - Here's some starting at $104 for 4GB

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2315794+1052129233&bop=And&Order=PRICE&Page=1

So, grand total of $378

$378 is a lot cheaper than $752!

So why spend twice as much? Is the performance twice as good, or even a lot better? No. For gaming, the $378 set would do the exact same thing. Roughly the same frame-rate, for $374 less.

I'm not trying to say go with the cheapest with everything, but why spend more? And he could put that $374 he saved on a video card.

Now if he had planned to spend $375 on a video card for the i7-930, instead, he could spend that much, plus the money he saved by going with my build. Which gives him $749 to spend on a video card, giving him the best video card available today. Not that I would recommend spending that much on a card.

BTW, I can't get your website to work http://www.microcenter.com/search/not_available_map.html

Anyway, if he wants to get something different, no sweat. Just trying to help. You can also save on the PSU because

Tom's test shows that Core i5 750 + LGA1156 draws 60W less then Core i7 920 + LGA1366 at full load.

$374 for .5 more fps.

Oh, but you lost 9 fps here:

Benches: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/core-i5-gaming,review-31673-8.html

Tom's tends to agree with exactly what I've been saying:

Thus, the conclusion here is pretty simple. When gaming is your top priority, buy “just enough” CPU and reallocate the rest of your budget toward graphics.

 

[Asus]

And those purple bars sticking out are for SLI/Crossfire. Avg FPS for a single would be the green bar and min. framerate is the red, right? All look similar fps to me.

 

[VirusType2]

And those purple bars sticking out are for SLI/Crossfire. Avg FPS for a single would be the green bar and min. framerate is the red, right? All look similar fps to me.

Actually the red is a different video card benchmark. The red lines are the ATI 4870 X2 (they didn't crossfire those)

They are all kind of jumbled together so it makes it hard to read. I seem to have been a little mislead as well. I got it, the green is Nvidia and red is ATi. But yeah, the crossfire is the blue/purple bars.

But yeah, that's exactly my point, they are all almost identical (So get the cheapest one and get a great video card)

As you see in that GTA4 bench, the $200 i5-750 beat the core 2 quad q9550S (which costs $350), by 12 FPS.

And you proved in a thread a while back that the bottleneck of the PCIe bandwidth cost the i5-750 only 1% performance with the $800 ATi 5970 video card.

Shit, the $1000 Intel Core i7-980X Extreme (6-Core) (that's your upgrade path, guys) only got 1-2 more fps over the $200 i5-750.

Personally, I won't pay $800 more dollars to unzip an archive 4 seconds faster (or whatever)

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-980x-gulftown,2573-11.html

 

[Raziaar]

Hey guys... I thank all of you for all of your awesome input. I've been trawling through Newegg today, looking at prices, looking at options. Also been looking at toms hardware and stuff.



To TwwIX. We are still thinking about water cooling, but may not go with it if we end up getting an i5-750 perhaps. Do you think it'd still be running hot and need something like that? Maybe we should try stock cooling and see how it goes first.



To VirusType2. Our old computers go to our family members. My old one from 2003 went to my dad's wife. My brothers one from the same period will go to my dad. Their old ones are too old to be good for anyone in our family, and we'll probably donate them or something.

And yeah Virus, we'll be lowering our CPU to a 200 dollar i5-750. He'll probably never have a use for all that speed with the things he does, and even if he does CPU intensive things it's way more than enough.



To Pj. My brother doesn't really want to wait for the Hexacores. And I honestly don't think he'll need that kind of power right now.


To Quixoticism. Yep. We're going with the i5-750 probably.




We're probably going to be going with 4 gigs of ram. No need to have 6 or more for him. I've been using 4 and it's been way more than enough for all the latest games.

Was thinking about this for that 4 gigs of ram. 1600 seems to be the better choice than the minimal differences with 2000 or higher speeds. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231190


Not sure if he should go with a 99.99 1TB hard drive... or go with a $150 2TB hard drive. I didn't even know they had 2TB out yet. Thinking maybe we should go with just 1TB to save on money... even though he'd definitely have use for the other TB.




For motherboard, he was looking at this one... Though I'm not sure exactly. Motherboards are always one of those very tricky things for me... so many features and stuff that I don't know about. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131405

For PSU it looks like the one TwwIX recommended is a good bet.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139009




This is what I'm looking at currently. No case yet. No video card yet. I'm worried about that too... because that's so much ****ing money and still no video card yet. Granted, he's having to get an OS, but it's still so much more than mine even though my parts at the time seemed more expensive(like processor).

Video card is something I'm wondering if we should go with weaker ones and pair them up... or a more powerful single one. Decisions, decisions.

 

[TwwIX]

You can't go wrong with Corsair when it comes to PSU's. Just get yourself some zip ties if you are getting that power supply.


If you plan on overclocking the CPU, definitely go with an aftermarket cooler. The stock heat sink is fine as long as the CPU is running at stock speeds. As i said, if you want efficient water cooling without the hassle of setting it up, go with the Corsair H-50 with a push and pull setup.

If you have any questions http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/612436-official-corsair-h50-hydro-series-owners.html



Escaep, please remove the gigantic picture. It's not necessary since you have already provided a link.

 

[Raziaar]

I don't know a whole lot about overclocking. Will probably remain stock.

 

[PJ]

I don't know why you seem to be recommending the corsair h-50 cooler so much Twwix, if you compare reviews and temps on various review, air coolers half the price such as the thermalright ultra 120 extreme have much better cooling performance.
The h-50 just seems too overpriced to be worth it.

 

[TwwIX]

I don't know why you seem to be recommending the corsair h-50 cooler so much Twwix, if you compare reviews and temps on various review, air coolers half the price such as the thermalright ultra 120 extreme have much better cooling performance.
The h-50 just seems too overpriced to be worth it.

He asked about water cooling. The H-50 is a water cooler.
The problem with those reviews is that they tested it with just the one stock fan and with the improper intake setup. You want to run it in a push and pull exhaust configuration with fans that have a high static air pressure for it to truly work.

Its performance is on par with Prolimatech's Megahalem.
Do some research if you don't believe me.

 

[Asus]

Go for a single GPU.

 

[VirusType2]

Instead of a $170 overclocker Crossfire motherboard and $140 PSU, you could get something tailored to a non-overclocking, single PCIe 2.0 slot and save $90-$120 between the two, but that's up to you. It just might be a good idea for you to have that option available. I don't upgrade often enough for 2 of the same video card to be worthwhile. I also like a quiet system. Fans on low.

Actually, you can get a 2x PCIE 2.0 motherboard for much cheaper than $170 with the budget boards (generally about $130).

I'm using a 500w PSU with an X1900XT (that needs upgrading, but probably isn't exactly power efficient), 6 HDD and a DVD burner.

When it was released, the i5-750 was "the most power efficient quad core we've ever tested." I'm not sure if it's still the most efficient, but never the less, it doesn't need a high powered PSU. If you're getting one of the brand new Nvidia graphics cards or [plan to eventually upgrade to] a 5970, you will definitely need more than 500w though. The price of a PSU goes up very quickly with increased power output so you don't want to get something unnecessary, if possible.

As for cooling, I'm running the stock HS/fan on my i5-750, simply because I was on an extremely tight budget and I'm just using the stock Turbo overclock option.

Speaking of cooling, have you picked out a case yet? High performance video cards have gotten over 10.5 inches long in some instances.

 

[Raziaar]

We'll probably be going with the single video card at first, since I don't particularly think my brother would need a second one yet since the performance increases aren't drastic for the price.

I would however like to keep the option available for him to do so with his motherboard. When I got my computer last year, I have the capacity for another video card in mine.

We have not picked out a case yet. My brother is quite picky when it comes to the appearance of his cases, but hopefully it won't result in a real expensive case. Just one that runs cool, and is big enough for those long cards.

And yeah VirusType2, I know about the length of the video cards these days. I know from painful experience. lol


Water cooling is something my brother is interested in, but because of price considerations, we'll have to entertain that after the fact I think, and see how the stock cooling for the i5-750 does. We do have arctic silver 5 so that'll help.



Sorry for not being able to respond to everything individually as there is a lot of information in this thread, but rest assured we are reading absolutely everything and taking it ALL into consideration. And I appreciate it a lot guys, you make this stuff so much easier on guys like me.

 

[Raziaar]

Alright guys. After spending some time reading more reviews and taking suggestion into consideration from this thread... this is what we have right now.

The case by the way, because of price, is the same one that I own. Unless there was something wrong with going with that case for such a newer system(compared to the one I bought last year), we might get it because the price is right... and the reviews are numerous and outstanding. My only issue with it has been having to wipe the dust from the front fan mesh which isn't that big of a deal. My room is dusty.

 

[Quixoticism]

Looks pretty good to me. I would like to test run it for you.

The Antec 900 is a really good case. I'm thinking for my next rig about getting the NZXT Tempest Evo, it looks sweet. Choosing a case often has most to do with personal taste, just as long as you check reviews to make sure the manufacturing is quality.

Is there a specific reason you're getting Win7 Ultimate?

 

[Raziaar]

Looks pretty good to me. I would like to test run it for you.

The Antec 900 is a really good case. I'm thinking for my next rig about getting the NZXT Tempest Evo, it looks sweet. Choosing a case often has most to do with personal taste, just as long as you check reviews to make sure the manufacturing is quality.

Is there a specific reason you're getting Win7 Ultimate?

Well... I've used Windows 7 Ultimate and after not having Windows XP pro a long time back I was always regretting it. I've used Windows 7 Ultimate for the whole RC period, and I know my brother will want it for his computer.

The Windows 7 Ultimate there is cheaper than the Windows XP I bought for my system back in 2003.

I remember seeing a comparison in the past of the differences, and for some reason I wanted Ultimate. I know my brother wants it for some of the features.

 

[Quixoticism]

I was just asking because W7 Home Premium is best for most people and Ultimate isn't that great unless you know you're going to be using the extra features regularly.

 

[VirusType2]

I have the Antec 900, though I paid a little less than that 2 or 3 years ago...

It's a great case, and it has 2 large drive cages, each holding 3 HDDs, for a total of 6 HDD slots.

You will almost certainly need to remove one of the drive cages to install those cards. Depending on the layout of the motherboard, you may need to remove both drive cages! Looking at my PCIe slot location, it seems if I had a 2nd one, it would be in the way of the bottom cage as well!

Which means no room for HDDs!

I've got a X1900XT and it's 205mm (205 millimeters = 8.07086614 inches) (the length of my card is same as GF7800GTX/7900GTX/X1800XT) and it is very very tight with 6 drives in place. The SATA and Power wires going to one of the drives had to tightly bend out of the way.

You can get special SATA and Power wires that don't stick out. They call them "L" shaped, and should give you 1/4" to 1/2" more clearance. IMAGE: http://salestores.com/byteccsata11.html


Are these your cards? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=n82e16814150447&local=y

8.5" x 4.38" x 1.5"

It's a half inch longer than my card.

I think you should get a bigger case. If you use "L" cables and re-crimp new "L" power cables going to the HDDs, it will barely fit (with both drive cages full of drives), but when upgrading your video cards down the road, they will probably be even longer, because 8.5" is fairly short these days!

Note: A HDD will stick out 1 1/8" past the cages, not including the wires. So there's a big difference to be made if you simply don't put a HDD in the way of the card.

(bless the window on the side of my case where I can quickly see inside and tell you how much room you have)

The ATi 5970 is 12.16" or 309 mm. It won't fit without removing the top cage. And you won't be able to crossfire it.

Also of note, is that, while ATi seems to kick some butt, ATi doesn't seem to be as effective as Nvidia in multiple GPU situations. Well, things change, you never know.

 

[Raziaar]

Hey Virus. The cards say they are 8.5 inchs, yes. My 4890 is 9.5 inches long, and it's currently fitting in there with some room to spare.

Wouldn't it fit fine if my 4890 is fitting in the Antec 900 with some room to spare?

 

[TwwIX]

Have you ordered hose things yet? I'd go with a single GPU if i were you.

I myself was thinking of going SLI with another GTX 260 but the cons outweigh the pros.
Go with a single GPU if you still haven't ordered a GFX card. A non reference card 5850.
That card overclocks pretty well. You can reach up to 30% better performance.
Don't forget to use Bing Cashback if you are buying the stuff from Newegg.com.

 

[Raziaar]

Have you ordered hose things yet? I'd go with a single GPU if i were you.

I myself was thinking of going SLI with another GTX 260 but the cons outweigh the pros.
Go with a single GPU if you still haven't ordered a GFX card. A non reference card 5850.
That card overclocks pretty well. You can reach up to 30% better performance.
Don't forget to use Bing Cashback if you are buying the stuff from Newegg.com.

Oh man, I totally forgot about Bing cash back! I did that with mine... got like 24 bucks back.

Also what are the cons are you talking about with the dual graphics cards? The toms hardware review I was reading said it was better for the dual ones are great.

I've honestly never used two graphics cards, and neither has my brother. We were just looking for the best, most practical and hopefully cheapest route.

We also don't overclock at all. I don't like the risks involved that I always remember from the past.

See this is what that review said about the 5850.

And for the 5770's, it says it's better choice.

 

[TwwIX]

Overclocking a GFX card is very simple. All you need is a program such as RivaTuner and you are set. Most GFX brands cover overclocking these days. So, no need to worry about voiding your warranty.

Why go single instead of dual gpu's?

Well, SLI/Crossfire has its pros but it's not worth it if you ask me.

For one, not many games take advantage of multiple cards.
Yes, you will see a significant increase in performance in the games that do.
Most games, however, have issues properly employing it and the performance ends being worse than with a single card.
Issues such as microstuttering and screen tearing still appear to be present after all these years.
Not to mention that multiple cards suck more power and generate much more heat. Especially if they are close to each other. You'll have one card heating up the other one.

On the bright side, ATI's current lineup lets you Crossfire a 5870 with a 5770, for example.

 

[VirusType2]

Hey Virus. The cards say they are 8.5 inchs, yes. My 4890 is 9.5 inches long, and it's currently fitting in there with some room to spare.

Wouldn't it fit fine if my 4890 is fitting in the Antec 900 with some room to spare?

It fits because you don't have a hard drive there. Consider having 2 video cards in there, and that blocks at least 2 HDD slots. Might even be touching or interfering with 2 other HDDs (if you had HDDs there).

It looks like without a HDD in the adjacent slot, you have about 11.5 inches, including the power cable (that tends to come out of the back, making it longer).

If you get a bigger video card later, (like I said, the 5970 is over 12" - too big to fit without removing 1 of the 2 drive cages). That means you won't be able to crossfire it, because it looks like you would need to remove both drive cages.

Taking out a drive cage defeats the main feature of that case and you end up with only 3 drive bays.

I haven't looked at all the cases available these days, but I'm sure there are cases with more video card room these days. That's just my suggestion to get a bigger case so you won't be kicking yourself later.


I don't think you are saving money by buying 2 lesser cards as opposed to one good card, because you're paying $170 for the 2Slot motherboard, and $140 for the PSU. Not to mention CF will get hot, use a lot of power, and be loud as crap.

Like I said, I would get 1 video card: the best one you can afford, and PSU with the right amount of muscle.

I'm saying - I believe you can get a Corsair PSU for $55 that will power a single 5850. (not that I'm suggesting this card as your best single card solution, I have no idea)


Just my suggestions. I've said all this before, I don't know why I'm just repeating it, I guess I just really feel strongly. I think you save about $90 on the PSU and $70 on the motherboard, and put that $160 more towards 1 video card. You might even find a cheaper case with more room, I don't know.

Here are some good 1 card motherboards:

Either of these wouldn't be good for CF because one of the slots is 4x mode (INEXPENSIVE):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...57170&cm_re=asrock_p55-_-13-157-170-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...57178&cm_re=asrock_p55-_-13-157-178-_-Product

But if you want a single video card, that won't matter.


This is the MoBo I got (though I paid a little more) I've had zero problems: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130240&cm_re=msi_p55-_-13-130-240-_-Product
for one card. Has no eSATA, but has 8 SATA slots (good for me, I have 8 drives, and an eSATA controller card)

At the time, this was my cheapest option. I knew they could make them cheaper though because this one has a ton of overclocking features. So that's why I'm recommending one of the boards above for about $90^


Heres a good single card MoBo with USB 3.0, for only $115 (free shipping) : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...425&cm_re=gigabyte_p55-_-13-128-425-_-Product
This might be your best bet if you don't go for the cheaper ASRock boards.

...and a slightly cheaper one with USB 2.0: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...405&cm_re=gigabyte_p55-_-13-128-405-_-Product
this is a mATX board, but it does have 7 SATA slots and an eSATA slot.

Personally, USB 3.0 is not important to me, not that I wouldn't pay like $10 more for it, if that were the case...

here are some 1156 boards with SATA 6gb/s (for the future of very high speed SS HDDs): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ption=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=

 

[Asus]

TBH it is a little naive to recommend a SLI/Crossfire setup over a single card. They don't know what games you play (the ones that take advantage of dual gpu or not?). Plus when they do scale well they perform the same as the single high end card.
They don't know how well the person building and living with the dual GPU setup will cope with driver, game and hardware issues. 2 GPUs double your issues. Sort of like wanting faster speeds over a plain HDD so they go RAID-0 but that doubles the chance of HDD failure. Why do that when there are SSDs to upgrade to...
In a similar way there is very little reason to go dual GPU when there are equally fast single GPUs (or will be shortly in a refresh).

It is a much easier life dealing with single GPUs. Too slow? Sell 1 card and buy the newest one. The chance it will work with your current power supply is pretty good. It just works.

Going dual? Aiming for the same performance you are probably buying lower cards (2 of them). Selling them will get you a lot less in return as they won't play future games well. You have heat and power issues. Plus cost will be more dealing with motherboard, PSU, and cooling etc to accommodate.

Sometimes people thinking SLI/Crossfire say they will start out with 1 and add another later for an upgrade but that is where the easy upgrade stops. The next step of upgrading is much much harder. Trying to selling old slow cards that can't play future games let alone run DX12. And upgrading your PSU etc. New board with PCI-Express 3.0 to handle the increase in bandwidth needed for future dual GPUs to talk to each other that single cards won't need.

So buying a fast single card and months later selling it to buy a new one in the first upgrade cycle is going to be better for your pocket and for your game performance across the board.

 

[Raziaar]

Overclocking a GFX card is very simple. All you need is a program such as RivaTuner and you are set. Most GFX brands cover overclocking these days. So, no need to worry about voiding your warranty.

Why go single instead of dual gpu's?

Well, SLI/Crossfire has its pros but it's not worth it if you ask me.

For one, not many games take advantage of multiple cards.
Yes, you will see a significant increase in performance in the games that do.
Most games, however, have issues properly employing it and the performance ends being worse than with a single card.
Issues such as microstuttering and screen tearing still appear to be present after all these years.
Not to mention that multiple cards suck more power and generate much more heat. Especially if they are close to each other. You'll have one card heating up the other one.

On the bright side, ATI's current lineup lets you Crossfire a 5870 with a 5770, for example.

You, Virus, and Asus(and others if they previous recommended it in this thread) all recommending to go with the single better card instead of the two lesser cards seems to be the best advice. All the stuff you three have said about it makes logical sense. Heat was one of the biggest worries I had about it. I wasn't even thinking about power consumption and moreso the difficulties associated with having two cards and the problems that could crop up.

Also how do you figure out if a card is a non-reference? I'm looking at newegg's 5850's right now.

It fits because you don't have a hard drive there. Consider having 2 video cards in there, and that blocks at least 2 HDD slots. Might even be touching or interfering with 2 other HDDs (if you had HDDs there).

It looks like without a HDD in the adjacent slot, you have about 11.5 inches, including the power cable (that tends to come out of the back, making it longer).

If you get a bigger video card later, (like I said, the 5970 is over 12" - too big to fit without removing 1 of the 2 drive cages). That means you won't be able to crossfire it, because it looks like you would need to remove both drive cages.

Taking out a drive cage defeats the main feature of that case and you end up with only 3 drive bays.

I haven't looked at all the cases available these days, but I'm sure there are cases with more video card room these days. That's just my suggestion to get a bigger case so you won't be kicking yourself later.


I don't think you are saving money by buying 2 lesser cards as opposed to one good card, because you're paying $170 for the 2Slot motherboard, and $140 for the PSU. Not to mention CF will get hot, use a lot of power, and be loud as crap.

Like I said, I would get 1 video card: the best one you can afford, and PSU with the right amount of muscle.

I'm saying - I believe you can get a Corsair PSU for $55 that will power a single 5850. (not that I'm suggesting this card as your best single card solution, I have no idea)


Just my suggestions. I've said all this before, I don't know why I'm just repeating it, I guess I just really feel strongly. I think you save about $90 on the PSU and $70 on the motherboard, and put that $160 more towards 1 video card. You might even find a cheaper case with more room, I don't know.

Here are some good 1 card motherboards:

Either of these wouldn't be good for CF because one of the slots is 4x mode (INEXPENSIVE):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...57170&cm_re=asrock_p55-_-13-157-170-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...57178&cm_re=asrock_p55-_-13-157-178-_-Product

But if you want a single video card, that won't matter.


This is the MoBo I got (though I paid a little more) I've had zero problems: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130240&cm_re=msi_p55-_-13-130-240-_-Product
for one card. Has no eSATA, but has 8 SATA slots (good for me, I have 8 drives, and an eSATA controller card)

At the time, this was my cheapest option. I knew they could make them cheaper though because this one has a ton of overclocking features. So that's why I'm recommending one of the boards above for about $90^


Heres a good single card MoBo with USB 3.0, for only $115 (free shipping) : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...425&cm_re=gigabyte_p55-_-13-128-425-_-Product
This might be your best bet if you don't go for the cheaper ASRock boards.

...and a slightly cheaper one with USB 2.0: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...405&cm_re=gigabyte_p55-_-13-128-405-_-Product
this is a mATX board, but it does have 7 SATA slots and an eSATA slot.

Personally, USB 3.0 is not important to me, not that I wouldn't pay like $10 more for it, if that were the case...

here are some 1156 boards with SATA 6gb/s (for the future of very high speed SS HDDs): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ption=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=

Hey Virus, sorry for having to make you repeat yourself. Thanks for all the awesome advice in this thread. I will be looking at getting a cheaper PSU and motherboard based on your advice, and that of the other people... since we won't need all that extra power and motherboard capabilities due to not having crossfire/SLI.

I'm going to be reading over your links, checking those boards and power supplies out, and adjust my list. Thanks a lot again man!

Also... I don't know what other case to look at that is larger for video cards(not just taller) than the Antec 900. Hrm.

TBH it is a little naive to recommend a SLI/Crossfire setup over a single card. They don't know what games you play (the ones that take advantage of dual gpu or not?). Plus when they do scale well they perform the same as the single high end card.
They don't know how well the person building and living with the dual GPU setup will cope with driver, game and hardware issues. 2 GPUs double your issues. Sort of like wanting faster speeds over a plain HDD so they go RAID-0 but that doubles the chance of HDD failure. Why do that when there are SSDs to upgrade to...
In a similar way there is very little reason to go dual GPU when there are equally fast single GPUs (or will be shortly in a refresh).

It is a much easier life dealing with single GPUs. Too slow? Sell 1 card and buy the newest one. The chance it will work with your current power supply is pretty good. It just works.

Going dual? Aiming for the same performance you are probably buying lower cards (2 of them). Selling them will get you a lot less in return as they won't play future games well. You have heat and power issues. Plus cost will be more dealing with motherboard, PSU, and cooling etc to accommodate.

Sometimes people thinking SLI/Crossfire say they will start out with 1 and add another later for an upgrade but that is where the easy upgrade stops. The next step of upgrading is much much harder. Trying to selling old slow cards that can't play future games let alone run DX12. And upgrading your PSU etc. New board with PCI-Express 3.0 to handle the increase in bandwidth needed for future dual GPUs to talk to each other that single cards won't need.

So buying a fast single card and months later selling it to buy a new one in the first upgrade cycle is going to be better for your pocket and for your game performance across the board.

Ahhh Asus... nice to see you in the thread! Your advice is always appreciated, and you helped sway me away from the dual cards for my brothers computer. Thank you for the lengthy response describing the ways that dual cards are not really the way to go in this situation.

How do you go about selling cards anyway? We've never sold any piece of computer hardware we've owned.


Going to be readjusting the list, aiming for cheaper and better, and we'll be making the purchase soon, either tonight or tomorrow.



Also one last question for you all from this post... what the hell is the difference between an OEM operating system from newegg and a retail one? In our house we've had three windows XP copies and we would(or I would rather) frequently reformat and sometimes we'd end up swapping out the copies to different computers, by not keeping track of which computer had which exact copy(of the three) of the OS installed.

What are the restrictions of Windows 7 OEM on newegg? I was reading something about you can never install it ever on a new system, or even change out the mobo and stuff? What the **** is that about? I thought it was just you didn't get the fancy box and stuff.


Here is this list right now... temporarily updated for tonight. It lacks a computer case now because I'm trying to find a wider one for video cards that is still as good and similarly priced to the Antec 900. I'm also unsure as with my question above, on the Windows 7 purchase. And on the video card... I'm not sure if that one is a reference card or not, I don't know how to tell. The Sapphire version of the card is like 70 bucks more expensive for some reason, and that seems to be just because it has a special fan.

 

[VirusType2]

Ay, it's no problem.

For cases, you can probably search pretty easily. Since the 5970 is the longest card to date

At 12 inches these can not be squeezed in either, the entire end is made up of two large air intakes, just like the models like the HD5870 already reviewed a lot more often.

, and barely conforms to the ATX standard, this would be a good search term.


google: 5970 case

Bam: "Case and PSU that will fit/feed an HD 5970 rig"

I have the Coolermaster HAF 932. It is a huge case.

The Antec 1200 would be the equivalent of the 932

The Thermaltake Spedo is the same length from front to back as the Coolermaster HAF 932

you would need to remove a hard drive cage and possibly mod the bracket or cut it off completly

Silverstone TJ-10 Case in which a longer PSU and about any Card fits (up to 13.5 inches leaving space for the 12 inch card to pull in air easily)

note: I haven't verified these comments.

Most are costly, but here they are.

Coolermaster HAF 932 :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ATCH&Description=Coolermaster+HAF+932&x=0&y=0

Antec 1200 :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...rder=BESTMATCH&Description=Antec+1200&x=0&y=0

Silverstone : $270 after rebate

Lan-Li P80 : $300

They used a Antec 1200 in the review so I'd assume all full tower cases that support E-ATX motherboards

thermaltake Armor+ Full ATX

$244

pics: http://img.techpowerup.org/091126/5970.4.jpg
http://img.techpowerup.org/091126/5970.1.jpg

Coolermaster Storm Sniper: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...lermaster_Storm_Sniper-_-11-119-194-_-Product
$130 + $24 shipping


Looks like your cheapest bet would be the Centurion : Sale Price: $59.99 + $10 shipping

COOLER MASTER Centurion 590 RC-590-KKN1-GP Black SECC / ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

I would vouch for my own case. (Centurion 590)

Got a GIGABYTE GA-790XTA-UD4 AM3 mobo in it with a AMD 965 on air, OCd to 4.0GHz. With 8Gb of G.Skill 1333 and a XFX HD 5970 Black Ed this thing is awesome. Would def recommend!

Coolermaster ATCS 840 : $170 + $26 shipping : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=ATCS+840&x=0&y=0

Corsair Obsidian Series 800D: $300

No time to look up any more, but if you want more options check google. (first link)

yes i am running the hd5970 Black in a antec 900.
I did have to slide the hard drive trays out to the last bolt holes and the card
is 2 mm from the caddy there and you will need to install the hard drives in the lower caddy to make it fit. But you will have a direct 120mm fan on the
front on the case blowing on the card wich works great for me.
I myself like the idea of a small case with good air flow.
this means that the air in the system is all ways freash and cool.

 

[Raziaar]

God damn Virus, you're quick and awesome.

I'm really liking the sound of that Cooler Master Centurion... I'll have to show it to my brother. He may not like the look. We'll see.

 

[VirusType2]

Np, Raz.

My first time seeing it. I think it's clean and simple. It isn't bad looking at all. It's black and rectangle and looks like it has good ventilation.

The look will grow on you because of the awesome power inside.

In my personal opinion, it's the only one reasonably priced and doesn't look bad, so it's an easy choice. In fact I think it looks better than some of the $300 cases.

It's probably going to be my next case (for gaming) so I can use my Antec 900 for my 2nd computer (which doesn't have enough HDD spaces)

 

[Raziaar]

Np, Raz.

My first time seeing it. I think it's clean and simple. It isn't bad looking at all. It's black and rectangle and looks like it has good ventilation.

The look will grow on you because of the awesome power inside.

In my personal opinion, it's the only one reasonably priced and doesn't look bad, so it's an easy choice. In fact I think it looks better than some of the $300 cases.

It's probably going to be my next case (for gaming) so I can use my Antec 900 for my 2nd computer (which doesn't have enough HDD spaces)

Yeah man. And my brother is cool with it too. So we added that as his case. The price and cooling capability are huge selling points.

I'm the type of person who doesn't care about my case. My one back in 2003 which I used up til 2009 was just a mostly grey little ugly box... and I was fine with that.

 

[VirusType2]

Cool, so now you saved an extra ~$40 on the case alone!

For now, ignore the PSU. You need to pick a motherboard and video card.

Really, all those motherboards are going to be good, but you will want to pick the one with the features you like. All features being the same, you should at least take a look at the bad reviews, see if you can't spot a potential problem. (wouldn't worry about DoA so much, it can happen to any)

You can also see if you can find benchmarks. Generally, all motherboards have one weak spot or something - try and make sure it's something you can live with. Obviously, no point paying $40 more dollars for no reason: OC features and shit that you don't sound like you will use.


So the decision with the most significance will be the video card.

After you pick that and know how much power you need, then you can pick the right PSU. So let us know.

 

[Asus]

Yeah most of those boards are going to be great, especially from the main brands. And if they use the same chipset then performance is going to be similar. You may want to look into what a p45 is vs a HD55 etc (there are other chipsets too). But the differences will be minor as they are mostly in the features. One has firewire, one has USB3.0 or SATA 6gb/s. One handles the 2nd PCI-Express 16x slot differently (4x speed, 8x speed) if it has a 2nd one.

Looking over ratings on newegg I would value a board that is 4 star and has 50+ reviews more than a board with 5 stars and...6 reviews. If it looks like the board with few reviews is just a newer version of the same thing then maybe check out hardware site reviews or forums (google search) to make sure the current version of that board is mostly bug free.