déjavu ...

[SupahFly]

After finishing the game I'm having exactly the same feeling as when I saw "the matrix : reloaded" the first time. :x

similarities between hl2 & tmr :
* highly anticipated by huge fanbase (me included!)
* precedors with a unique style & story
* they both have style
* they both lack a decent story
* they both give more questions than answers
* lots of detail hints / clues / references which should compensate the lack of story
* the implicite promise of answers in a third instalment
* the shameless merchandising -> explicit promise of answers when you BUY the book (hl) or the game , animated version (tm)
*and of course : the imense amount of speculation on the fan based forums afterward.

While there are a lot of interesting threads and intruiging speculations about characters , story & ending ; I have experienced with tmreloaded that many of those fanboy-theories were FAR beter than the CRAP they offered us with tmrevolutions.

I will give hl the benefit of doubt , but I can't say I'm very hopeful ...


ps : the game experience itself was great : I love the physics , the level design , the style & atmosphere , but storywise its quite poor ...

 

[Unimatrix881]

Another thing, doesn't Dr. Breen simply remind you of The Architect? The face, the beard, the way of speaking... If HL2 was related to ANY movie, it would surely be the Matrix Reloaded...

 

[Revenge]

Ok get it into your heads dammit, HL2 would have SUCKED BALLS if there had been a Morris-the-Explainer ending scene to it. Honestly, we all would of gone "Oh okay then" and then forgotten all about it. We would have shelved HL2 after 20 hours of gameplay sat around twiddling our thumbs waiting for the next big thing.

How many of you are still talking about doom 3? How many of you still give a damn about what happened in Halo 2? (And while we are at it, how many people complained about Halo having a trilogy of books released that explained who the hell Master Chief really is and the conventant are and what they are doing messing with humans, stuff that you wont find out through playing the game alone?)

When there are no questions left to be answered, the story gets forgotten about. It gets dumped on the "done" pile to grow cobwebs. This way, the HL story will live on a heck of a lot longer.

Not only that, but now we are speculating so damn much, that if answer IS given, then 80% of the people will complain that the answer they speculated is wrong. There are so many variations out there now that everybody will believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong, and providing any definate answers will just piss off more people than it will please, because people hate to be wrong.

 

[jer1691]

who really killed jfk?

 

[JackFrost]

who really killed jfk?

Shephard, who was sent back in time by the G-Man to do it.

Of course.

 

[wilka91]

Matrix Reloaded was definetly not as good as the 1st one, it just imitated the original.

HL2 surpasses HL1 in every way. But the cliffhanger ending did remind me of Reloaded though.

 

[wilka91]

I just hope that Valve doesn't make the same mistake in the final act. Matrix Revolutions basically didn't answer anything, and now we know we will never have one.

Valve must therefore explain a lot of things in the next game.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Although HL2 didn't answer many of the big questions, the things it DID answer about Black Mesa, the time in between, and the Combine/Xenian relation should be acknowledged. A good amount of the information is learned by talking to Vort's, too. I feel that I have a pretty good grasp on everything that is going on, the amount of parties involved and their affiliations, just not on everyone's motives (especially the GMan)

 

[Revenge]

In response to Wilka91:

Why?

Did Valve ever announce that HL3 would be the end of the series?

In the Final Hours article, Gabe mentioned that his dev team was starting on a whole heap of smaller add-ons for the HL story.

As for the Matrix story, there was SUPPOSED to be a MMORPG out that answered a lot of questions over time, but it turned into vaporware, which in my view is the big mistake. It'd be like Tolkien announcing that he was writing his trilogy and then deciding he couldn't be bothered with the third book and not telling anybody that he had given up on it. And while I believe it'd be a mistake for valve to leave the half-life story unfinished, I think it'd also be a mistake to never give us any sense of finality either. The end of both HL1 and HL2 were "To be continued..." endings, and while that's perfectly fine, no truly succesful series has ever ended with another "To be continued..." ending. Even Sex in the City had a big finale, and all they ever did was ramble on about random crap!

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

In response to Wilka91:

Why?

Did Valve ever announce that HL3 would be the end of the series?

In the Final Hours article, Gabe mentioned that his dev team was starting on a whole heap of smaller add-ons for the HL story.

As for the Matrix story, there was SUPPOSED to be a MMORPG out that answered a lot of questions over time, but it turned into vaporware, which in my view is the big mistake. It'd be like Tolkien announcing that he was writing his trilogy and then deciding he couldn't be bothered with the third book and not telling anybody that he had given up on it. And while I believe it'd be a mistake for valve to leave the half-life story unfinished, I think it'd also be a mistake to never give us any sense of finality either. The end of both HL1 and HL2 were "To be continued..." endings, and while that's perfectly fine, no truly succesful series has ever ended with another "To be continued..." ending. Even Sex in the City had a big finale, and all they ever did was ramble on about random crap!

Exactly: I am expecting the final answers to come in HL3 (or whatever the last installment may be.) And if somehow HL3 gets scrapped via an unfortunate incident at Valve, bought out, what have you, they should release the storyline at least.

Freespace had this problem, too. A great story, left unanswered questions at the end of FS2. But then THQ bought out Volition from Interplay (Who still owned the title rights to Freespace) and they refused to give THQ the rights to the series. And thus, the hope for FS3 fizzled out when Interplay died and took the story to the grave with them.

 

[SupahFly]

Ok get it into your heads dammit, HL2 would have SUCKED BALLS if there had been a Morris-the-Explainer ending scene to it. Honestly, we all would of gone "Oh okay then" and then forgotten all about it. We would have shelved HL2 after 20 hours of gameplay sat around twiddling our thumbs waiting for the next big thing.

True. Its never a bad idea to end with a clifhanger. To leave ONE or a FEW interesting NEW questions open. But when games or movies end up with a ton of new questions but fail to answer some the initial questions ... it's quite a cheap trick to keep the audience interested.

*"Before I played hl2" I wondered :
-who are the combine ?
-what are the combine doing here ? I see them guard stations , fight rebels , supress citizens ... but what's the bigger picture ?
-why have the vortugaunts become alies ?
- what is that citadel all about ?
-what happend with earth
-what happened since hl1 ?
-what & where is city17 ?

All intruiging & promisng questions. The pre release info given by Valve promissed a far more complex story/universe than the original HL had.
But now I've finished the game and I wonder :
- who are the combine ? are they brainwashed citizens ? Are they produced in the citadel ? Who are the naked aliens in te citadel ? Why turning people into zombies if zombies kill combine ?
-What are the combine doig here ? what's the bigger picture?
- why have the vort become allies ?
- what is the citadel all about ? OK , it has that teleport thingy and somekind of factory iside (made me think of that door-factory scene from Pixars "Monsters inc" ) but why is it eating its way throug city 17 ?
-what happend since hl1? what happend with earth? what is city 17 ? OK , i've read in the forums about that 7days war , but it was never clearly part of the main story line.
- And off course , the end of the game. You still dont have a clue about whats going on and suddenly time freezes , some matrix architect like mumbojumbo dialog that reases tons of new difficult (more metaphysical) questions BEFORE the more obvious questions are even remotly answered.

How many of you are still talking about doom 3? How many of you still give a damn about what happened in Halo 2? (And while we are at it, how many people complained about Halo having a trilogy of books released that explained who the hell Master Chief really is and the conventant are and what they are doing messing with humans, stuff that you wont find out through playing the game alone?)[endquote]

Didn't play doom3 or halo2 yet. I've finished halo1. The story there was simple , straightforward and did't really require aditional answers. (unless you're a startrakfanlikegamer , who wants to know all about alien culture & ship technologies)
Hell , even HL1 did'nt require a sequel "per sé". The story was simpel & solid. You were in the middle of some kind of transdimensional secret experiment that went bad & a governenment led cover-up. I never felt the urge for additional information.

Not only that, but now we are speculating so damn much, that if answer IS given, then 80% of the people will complain that the answer they speculated is wrong. There are so many variations out there now that everybody will believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong, and providing any definate answers will just piss off more people than it will please, because people hate to be wrong.

So you state that NOT telling a story is a beter solution ? It's all about style & atmosphere. The whole game long you're THINKING you are discovering what happend , but the only ting I've learned is that humanity is enslaved by some kind of non-human force. period. And that was something I already knew before I started playing the game.



ps : ok , I'll go talk to some vortigaunts , I admit I didnt talk to every one of them. (the first ones i tried didnt tell me any other than the usual non-interesting npc chit chat , so i wasnt really encouraged) :rolling:

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

True. Its never a bad idea to end with a clifhanger. To leave ONE or a FEW interesting NEW questions open. But when games or movies end up with a ton of new questions but fail to answer some the initial questions ... it's quite a cheap trick to keep the audience interested.

*"Before I played hl2" I wondered :
-who are the combine ?

A universal union of aliens. Dr. Breen states this on a TV after you teleport (the weeklong one)

-what are the combine doing here ? I see them guard stations , fight rebels , supress citizens ... but what's the bigger picture ?

You never see combine aliens except for twice in the game, and on a screen in Breen's place twice. You saw transhuman forces of the Combine Overwatch army. These are humans who volunteered or are mechanically modified.

-why have the vortugaunts become alies ?

Eli Vance made contact with them via teleporation tech. The Vort in Eli's lab explains.

- what is that citadel all about ?

Given to Dr. Breen by the combine to help him keep 'order', and as his base of operations.

-what happend with earth

The combine noticed the portal storms between Xen and Earth, and launched their attack. The war lasted all of 7 hours before Breen surrendered for Earth. He was named by the Combine as the interim adminstrator. He feels he saved humanity by surrendering, since they are alive and not wiped out. But many would rather by dead than under the Combine control.

-what happened since hl1 ?

Just explained above.

-what & where is city17 ?

One of many numbered concentration ghettos. City 17 is in Eastern Europe.

All intruiging & promisng questions. The pre release info given by Valve promissed a far more complex story/universe than the original HL had.
But now I've finished the game and I wonder :

- who are the combine ? are they brainwashed citizens ? Are they produced in the citadel ? Who are the naked aliens in te citadel ? Why turning people into zombies if zombies kill combine ?

The CP's (White mask) are volunteer citizens, mostly doing it for a hot meal. They are the police. You hear citizens in the very start getting food saying they consider volunteering for civil protection just to get a hot meal. The black masked soldiers are mechanically modified humans (Transhuman arm of the Combine Overwatch army)

-What are the combine doig here ? what's the bigger picture?

One of the unanswered questions, yes. I speculate for resources..

- why have the vort become allies ?

The vortigaunts talk about how "when the lesser master fell, we knew the greater must soon follow. I personally, strongly believe that Nihilanth was under Combine control. Sort of their "Dr. Breen" but in a different situation, less willingly

- what is the citadel all about ? OK , it has that teleport thingy and somekind of factory iside (made me think of that door-factory scene from Pixars "Monsters inc" ) but why is it eating its way throug city 17 ?

Digging for something as you see when you first enter. I speculate resources, or to use the materials to power it. This is an unanswered question though

-what happend since hl1? what happend with earth? what is city 17 ? OK , i've read in the forums about that 7days war , but it was never clearly part of the main story line.

7 Hours war, was explained in Eli's lab. Also answered above in other questions you asked

- And off course , the end of the game. You still dont have a clue about whats going on and suddenly time freezes , some matrix architect like mumbojumbo dialog that reases tons of new difficult (more metaphysical) questions BEFORE the more obvious questions are even remotly answered.

Breen was stopped from teleporting to the Combine planet/world. You wonder what comes next and the G-Man stops time right before you find out. I feel this is a reasonable cliffhanger and a GREAT setup for HL3

 

[SupahFly]

Hmm ,

thx for the answers.
Guess I'll have to pay a little more attention to details when I play a second time.
I guess it's all too subtle to my feeling. Probably I expected the core explenations through the mouth of main npc's like alyx & co.
(eg 1 : when alyx was using the combine computers at nova prospect & when she commanded the pod with Eli inside ... that was a moment I expected she would give a little more info about the pods , about the podfactory , about what happend with prisoners, etc.)
(eg 2 : When you enter the "vortigaunt camp" in sand traps I thought there would be a lot of automatic / scripted explanation from the vorts about their motives & about the antlions & stuff.


Guess I wasnt paying enough attention at some points ...

But my critic remains...
imo the main story should be told through scripted key-moments & dialogs. Talking to npc's with the "use" button should be for in depth info.
As far as I can see a big part of the main story had to be "requested" explicitly with "use" button , while many scripted dialogs where often "tutorials" ("meet DOG" , "Bugbait",...) or briefings for ur next objective (without a lot of explanations storywise). :|