Do Gooders of VT.net, why do you obey your moral compass?

[MuToiD_MaN]

I think there's this conception out there that in order to be a good person, you must always, invariably, put the needs of others before your own, and that if you do put your needs before those of other people's, for whatever reason, you're a bad, selfish person. I think it's pretty shortsighted to blindly serve others before yourself in every situation, because if you carry on like that, eventually you're going to end up being useless/dead. And then what good are you?

Obviously you can't be selfless 100% of the time. That's just silly. And there certainly are times when reasonable people wouldn't fault you for putting yourself first. That's why I prefer the Golden Rule, or as Wil Wheaton has popularly razed it down to: don't be a dick.

 

[Remus]

don't be a dick.

*Looks at avatar*

So I take it killing people with eye beams is OK then. Hypocrite!11

 

[Shift]

Weren't you religious a while ago Shift? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

*grumbles about avatar changes*

Well to be pedantic I've never been religious, that's the problem with labels, you present certain ideas and you are immediately categorised and it makes people less interesting. But yes it is me and yes I still have the same beliefs more or less, although I've learnt that its stupid being elitist over what I beliefs and that shouldn't be a barrier between people, I'd much rather get on and find a middle ground with everyone I encounter. Basically, same beliefs, but I've grown up a lot

 

[Stigmata]

I've been meaning to reply to this thread since the day it was posted. Simplest answer possible: I obey my moral compass because it's the most truthful and honest thing I know.

Get at me, Godel's Incompleteness Theorems.

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

Obviously you can't be selfless 100% of the time. That's just silly. And there certainly are times when reasonable people wouldn't fault you for putting yourself first. That's why I prefer the Golden Rule, or as Wil Wheaton has popularly razed it down to: don't be a dick.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Well to be pedantic I've never been religious, that's the problem with labels, you present certain ideas and you are immediately categorised and it makes people less interesting. But yes it is me and yes I still have the same beliefs more or less, although I've learnt that its stupid being elitist over what I beliefs and that shouldn't be a barrier between people, I'd much rather get on and find a middle ground with everyone I encounter. Basically, same beliefs, but I've grown up a lot

We debated religion. Christian theology, specifically. You quoted bible passages.

I feel like my whole life has been a hollow lie.

 

[Shift]

We debated religion. Christian theology, specifically. You quoted bible passages.

I feel like my whole life has been a hollow lie.

Haha yes I recall. Fact is, I'm not going to call myself a Christian, there are far too many negative connotations attached to that name and the majority believe things that I simply don't, so I roughly believe the same things as before, I just don't think I am as militant about them. I'll still defend them when harrased however But no I've never been religious, religion may link to establishments with their many traditions but I don't adhere to that, I never have. I think its a lazy term used to brush everyone with spiritual beliefs under one banner so they're more easily identifiable. I'm not anything other than myself and what I believe

 

[Krynn72]

Haha yes I recall. Fact is, I'm not going to call myself a Christian, there are far too many negative connotations attached to that name and the majority believe things that I simply don't, so I roughly believe the same things as before, I just don't think I am as militant about them. I'll still defend them when harrased however But no I've never been religious, religion may link to establishments with their many traditions but I don't adhere to that, I never have. I think its a lazy term used to brush everyone with spiritual beliefs under one banner so they're more easily identifiable. I'm not anything other than myself and what I believe

So... you're a non-conformist then? Good, at least we know how to categorize you now.

 

[Shift]

So... you're a non-conformist then? Good, at least we know how to categorize you now.

Its quite sad that you don't want to understand a concept without having to label it. Yeah I guess non-conformist is the closest thing I'd relate too but that still involves 'Christian' and I don't like being affiliated with that name at the moment.

 

[Stigmata]

Gnostics for Jesus?

 

[Bad^Hat]

Meh, you're welcome to your beliefs, and I know what you mean about labels inviting a bunch of comparisons that may not apply to you personally (the word "atheist" is a ****ing semantic briar patch), it just seemed like you were trying to distance yourself a bit from some of the things you've said on here before. Maybe not, maybe I'm just putting you into a box based on how I think/thought of you, which is really just an impression at the end of the day. Honestly though, regardless of what I think of religion/faith/spirituality/the supernatural in general, I think it's much more important for people to simply be self-aware of what impact their belief system has on their cognition, and it seems like you're at least giving it some serious thought.

Anyway so yeah, just sayin' I'm not trying to start another religion-off. Jah knows we've had enough of those around here.

 

[ríomhaire]

Its quite sad that you don't want to understand a concept without having to label it. Yeah I guess non-conformist is the closest thing I'd relate too but that still involves 'Christian' and I don't like being affiliated with that name at the moment.

To be honest, it seems like you're the one who's the most preoccupied with labelling here.

 

[Shift]

To be honest, it seems like you're the one who's the most preoccupied with labelling here.

I wasn't the one dishing out labels to start with so I don't know how you reached that conclusion.

 

[Krynn72]

Its quite sad that you don't want to understand a concept without having to label it.

Its even sadder that you didnt realize I was just yanking your chain.

 

[Shift]

Its even sadder that you didnt realize I was just yanking your chain.

Well I am just looking at text remember, I'm not a mind reader. Emotes usually help in that area.

 

[KiplingsCat]

I used to get worried because I didn't really like calling myself an atheist, as my general attitude to religion or my lack thereof was sort of just like..."meh". But then I just applied that attitude to my concern about what to call myself, and now I don't have a problem.

 

[Krynn72]

Well I am just looking at text remember, I'm not a mind reader. Emotes usually help in that area.

I dont do emoticons.

 

[evil^milk]

I've evaluated why I tend to do what I do from not just a moral point of view but from a general one, and I compare my actions to cycles, or wavelengths, or patterns of energy that oscillate according to pre-existing ideas or principles from the world from which I base all my actions on in an act of imitation. So, what happens in the world is a confluence of different energies, and I merely mimic what goes on in it—if I make a drawing I base myself on that same set of energies which all artists or art enthusiasts must have in common, and use that set of energies to make some thing that I can call my own.

I haven't read the other replies, but maybe someone has explained why there's morality to begin with. Why there is a concept of justice and truth that arises as intellect emerges, or which of these concepts arises first, or if they even arise together. I just say that it really depends on where you are at: what set of special patterns of wiggling atoms or wavelengths you happen to be most engaged with at the moment. People who wrong others will without a doubt be deemed to be doing "wrong" by those who are accustomed to having a different moral compass. Not that this has to do with anything (as if anything I've said ever had something to do with the topic at hand to begin with), but, evidently, to have a moral compass implies recognizing that there is no north without a south, and no east without west, so if all points on the compass were to read "north" our notion of direction would be chaotic and unintuitive. The same follows with what's good and bad, what's morally sound and what is not. Try imagining if everything were evil. Things cannot be... unidimensional. This seems to suggest that evil is just as necessary as good, and if we rid ourselves of our notions of morality, how can we really say if being good is better (whatever that means) than being evil? Why is it strange to think of a world with no evil? Is it better for there to be more good than evil, and who can be a judge of the summation of good and evil acts? Who, but the universe itself...

That said, I'll just mention that my sense of morality is flexible but it tends to lean towards what people describe as "good".
What drives me to be good? Feeling bad sucks. Shit sucks man, I prefer to make people feel good not at their expense but at the very least to their own lack of detriment or even benefit.

 

[Stylo]

Haha yes I recall. Fact is, I'm not going to call myself a Christian, there are far too many negative connotations attached to that name and the majority believe things that I simply don't, so I roughly believe the same things as before, I just don't think I am as militant about them. I'll still defend them when harrased however But no I've never been religious, religion may link to establishments with their many traditions but I don't adhere to that, I never have. I think its a lazy term used to brush everyone with spiritual beliefs under one banner so they're more easily identifiable. I'm not anything other than myself and what I believe

There is a lot of stuff here I can draw parallels with. I've debated (if you can call it that) with some more hardcore Atheists but similarly had run-ins with what most people term "Fundamentalist" Christians (even though most of the people that get that label are far from the fundamentals of Christianity).

God, or what God is by definition varies from person to person and it means a whole lot of things, concepts and ideas. It's a f*cking minefield to express my views because I often get flack from the militant members of both sides, so I just end up saying "instead of attacking other peoples' beliefs, ideals and theories, be content with your own."

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

because it makes you feel good to treat others the way you would expect them to treat you. its fun to do nice things for people even if you dont get the end result you were shooting for you still feel good most of the time so that's why. sounds selfish but its true- to feel good myself is why.

Now people who don't get that good feeling from going out of their way to help others and not caring about others problems I'll never understand. probably some kind of terminology for that I'm missing

 

[KiplingsCat]

I've done good things for people before that haven't made me feel good in the least...sometimes it's just about doing the right thing, even if that's not what makes you happy. Just because you don't especially like someone, or you don't like what they're asking you to do, doesn't mean you shouldn't necessarily do right by them.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I've done good things for people before that haven't made me feel good in the least...sometimes it's just about doing the right thing, even if that's not what makes you happy. Just because you don't especially like someone, or you don't like what they're asking you to do, doesn't mean you shouldn't necessarily do right by them.

Weird how does it not make you feel good? What was the thing that you did? Seriously curious because if it didn't make me feel good to do it I wouldn't. I might feel LAZY to do something, but still do it but end up feeling good in the end, etc, but that's different.

 

[KiplingsCat]

I don't want to get into specifics here...often these things can be quite personal. Sometimes, though, when people are related to you, and you don't always get along with them, you still end up having to stand by them and help them, because that's what you do for your family. And it's not always enjoyable, and sometimes nobody says thank you, and you don't always end up feeling good at the end of it, and sometimes you wonder why you even bother.

But in the end, it's not like you can just cut these people out of your life. It's not as simple as that. So that means that occasionally you're going to have to do things with them and for them that aren't necessarily fun. It's one of those "you-may-not-always-like-them-but-you're-obliged-to-love-them" kind of things.

Also times when I have ended up assisting drunk friends. I hate ending up doing that, mainly because I'm always asking myself why I'm doing it instead of getting drunk myself. I try to make a point now of getting drunk before everyone else at parties so nobody will expect it of me.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I don't want to get into specifics here...often these things can be quite personal. Sometimes, though, when people are related to you, and you don't always get along with them, you still end up having to stand by them and help them, because that's what you do for your family. And it's not always enjoyable, and sometimes nobody says thank you, and you don't always end up feeling good at the end of it, and sometimes you wonder why you even bother.

I still feel good about what i did regardless of the gratitude. That said someone simply being blood related to me doesn't mean I am obligated to help them. But if my nephew or somebody is being a little asshole and I help him regardless I usually still feel good about the whole thing and can smile.

Also times when I have ended up assisting drunk friends. I hate ending up doing that, mainly because I'm always asking myself why I'm doing it instead of getting drunk myself. I try to make a point now of getting drunk before everyone else at parties so nobody will expect it of me.

Well same here, I might be irritated at the time but I always feel good if they made it home alive and are not a smear on a highway or something like that. Still feels good, man! Maybe I just have a good sense of suppressing poor feelings in my mind and seeing the positive.

 

[KiplingsCat]

I still feel good about what i did regardless of the gratitude. That said someone simply being blood related to me doesn't mean I am obligated to help them. But if my nephew or somebody is being a little asshole and I help him regardless I usually still feel good about the whole thing and can smile.

Lucky you. I guess for me, feeling like I've done the right thing and feeling good aren't always the same thing. Doing the right thing isn't a novelty, or something I do for the buzz, or anything like that. I do it because it's just right, that's all. There isn't really a decision in it for me. If me feeling good is a side effect, so much the better. But it isn't always.

That said, I don't always do the right thing. But that usually doesn't sit well with me. I can never shake off the guilty feeling of having done wrong by someone, or having made someone's life a little harder. I think about how I would feel in their shoes and it makes me sad. So I guess you could say I do good to avoid feeling (deservedly) like utter crap, as opposed to doing it because I find it entertaining. If I don't help it just kind of haunts me.

 

[sinkoman]

I agree with Rakurai, that people SHOULD feel good about the things they do, and SHOULD behave based on what it is that would make them feel good.

Unfortunately though, things are almost never this black and white, and sometimes doing the "right" thing really does suck dangly donkey testes.